Fairway divot rule

[dlygrisse]

Certain Topics or Proposals Not Addressed in the New Rules of Golf for 2019

 

 

2. Preserving the Fundamental Challenge of the Game

• Play the ball as it lies – In its simplest form, golf is about playing the ball from tee to green by hitting it with a golf club, and not otherwise touching the ball. A fundamental challenge of the sport is to deal with whatever position your ball comes to rest in – whether good or bad. While there are some necessary exceptions (such as obstructions and other abnormal course conditions), the essential nature of golf means these must remain exceptions rather than the norm. Therefore, the new Rules do not provide relief without penalty from situations that some golfers complain about, such as when their ball comes to rest in a divot hole on a fairway or in footprints in a poorly raked bunker. In addition to being contrary to the fundamental principle of playing the ball as it lies, providing free relief in such circumstances would make the Rules harder to apply (for example, what is the difference between an irregularity of surface and an old divot hole?) and could slow down play when there are difficult questions about what is or isn’t a divot hole.
  

 

Others not addressed at http://www.usga.org/...-addressed.html

 

This is the essence of the game, if this abolished, then you aren't playing golf.

[jlbos83]

I would not be opposed if there was no relief from immovable obstructions. I've hit off cart paths when the relief was going to be worse than where the ball was, and hit decent shots at times (even off of concrete), shots that just got off the trouble at other times. There's always the unplayable option, pay a stroke penalty if you want your hands all over the ball.

[dlygrisse]

I would not be opposed if there was no relief from immovable obstructions. I've hit off cart paths when the relief was going to be worse than where the ball was, and hit decent shots at times (even off of concrete), shots that just got off the trouble at other times. There's always the unplayable option, pay a stroke penalty if you want your hands all over the ball.

 

I think too many people equate golf to what they see on TV. Pros get drops from everything, it's ridiculous. Look I understand we don't play around grandstands, TV towers etc, but all this line of site stuff is ridiculous, LCP, is used too often. The reality it the TV peeps want to show great shots, and low scores, they think it helps ratings....so be it. But that is really not the spirit of the game, nor should it be construed as such. It's obvious pros sometimes aim for the grandstands because they know they will get relief, and a free drop.

 

I enjoy hitting great shots, but sometimes hitting a great shots is hitting a good recovery from a bad spot.

[jlbos83]

Obviously, pro golf on TV is entertainment. The TIO rules are a little strange, but really don't come into play so often as to be an issue, in my opinion. I'm not sure how to avoid them hitting into stand on purpose, or at least accepting it. I can't think of a situation right off, but I imagine there are cases where a mortal might benefit from hitting into an obstruction on purpose. As far as LCP, they have a pickle, which I understand. They want to get the round in if there is any way, and they can't change rules in the middle, so they have to decide whether to go LCP based on the worst conditions they expect in the round. Sometimes they look silly, playing LCP on a dry course. Of course, a few weeks ago in Philly, there is no way they could have dreamed of playing anything like golf without LCP. I think the various tours do try to keep the game golf, but they have some constraints that we don't have. It's entertaining, and I will still watch.

[Roadking2003]

One of the principles of the game - play the ball as it lies unless a Rule provides otherwise. (Don't hold your breath for a Rule to provide otherwise for divot holes).

 

True, and we already have lots of rules that violate the "play the ball as it lies" principle.

 

How about lift clean and place for every shot? Rub of the green is part of the game.

 

Not always.

 

The Rules don't "violate" the principle, they modify it.

 

Ok, so let's add one more rule; move the ball 6 inches in fairway or green. That just modifies the principle.

[Roadking2003]

You are not taking relief on the green, obviously, so the green remark was silly.

 

But you are picking it up and cleaning it so you are not "playing it as it lies". And you do take relief from casual water on the green. So again, not playing it as it lies.

 

So not silly.

 

The old adage, "Don't like the lie, don't hit it there." Applies.

 

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

[Newby]

When a ball is in a divot hole in the fairway or a foot print in a bunker, the player is suffering from the carelessness of someone else and would seem to be entitled to relief.

Quite correctly, the Rules do not accord any more consideration to these situations than to the player who finds his ball in an equally difficult position created by nature, course condition or any other cause.

Chance has brought the player’s ball into an unfavorable position and he must do his best to overcome the obstacle.

[jlbos83]

The way I look at it is that the rules are kind enough to give us relief from some "unusual" conditions. They could have just said, tough luck, but for those few conditions, they decided that relief was warranted, though perhaps in some instances they do violate the basic premise of golf. If we can move the ball anywhere, we've gone to just ignoring the basic premise, and it clearly isn't golf any longer. If you and your buddies want to play that way, knock yourselves out, it really matters not to me. I'll keep trying to play golf.

[Shilgy]

When a ball is in a divot hole in the fairway or a foot print in a bunker, the player is suffering from the carelessness of someone else and would seem to be entitled to relief.

Quite correctly, the Rules do not accord any more consideration to these situations than to the player who finds his ball in an equally difficult position created by nature, course condition or any other cause.

Chance has brought the player’s ball into an unfavorable position and he must do his best to overcome the obstacle.

To many, including myself, your last sentence is the very object of the game. It is a mental examination, not just physical, and how we deal with both the so called good and bad breaks is the essence of the game.

[Newby]

Sorry. I can't really claim credit. This was from Richard S Tufts' esteemed writings in 1959.

[Vindog]

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

 

You may choose to play it as it lies in those situations if it suits you.

[Newby]

You are not taking relief on the green, obviously, so the green remark was silly.

 

But you are picking it up and cleaning it so you are not "playing it as it lies". And you do take relief from casual water on the green. So again, not playing it as it lies.

 

So not silly.

 

The old adage, "Don't like the lie, don't hit it there." Applies.

 

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

Nothing unpremeditated about their positioning.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

Honestly, I don't care what you do as long as I'm not waiting behind you.

[Graymulligan]

A divot is a hole. There is no such thing as a "divot hole".

[Halebopp]

A divot is a hole. There is no such thing as a "divot hole".

 

A divot is a piece of turf. Removing one tends to leave a hole in the ground.

[Newby]

A divot is a hole. There is no such thing as a "divot hole".

 

When you 'take a divot', you are removing a piece of turf. This leaves a divot hole.

[nsxguy]

You are not taking relief on the green, obviously, so the green remark was silly.

 

But you are picking it up and cleaning it so you are not "playing it as it lies". And you do take relief from casual water on the green. So again, not playing it as it lies.

 

So not silly.

 

The old adage, "Don't like the lie, don't hit it there." Applies.

 

Same could be said for a cart path or sprinkler head or casual water.

 

The only thing you really keep harping on is the divot. You've never complained, at least not that I can remember about getting relief from these other things. I, and many others, have commented that we might have found ourselves in a divot once or twice a year. Why not just "suck it up" ?

 

And, as has been brought to your attention a number of times, the main problem is defining a divot. Some are very obvious, some not so much and it's the latter that cause the problem. If you see a slight depression that your ball is in do you immediately say "That's a divot" and move the ball ?

 

Now, moving it 6 inches anywhere in the fairway ? That would sure take care of your divot problem, wouldn't it ? But we already have that. It's called "Preferred Lies" (IIRC) and you can play that anytime you like so long as you're not in a formal competition.

 

Your handicap would then be of the vanity type as is our friend who shall not be named so you'd be at a disadvantage if you DO play in a formal competition but so what ? Most of the time you'll be happy. :)

[I_HATE_SNOW]

A divot is a hole. There is no such thing as a "divot hole".

 

When you 'take a divot', you are removing a piece of turf. This leaves a divot hole.

If you put your divot, back in the divot, then there is no divot, unless the course rather you filled the divot with sand.

[deadsolid...shank]

A divot is a hole. There is no such thing as a "divot hole".

 

When you 'take a divot', you are removing a piece of turf. This leaves a divot hole.

If you put your divot, back in the divot, then there is no divot, unless the course rather you filled the divot with sand.

Are you then “on” a divot as opposed to in one?

[Colin L]

A divot is without doubt the piece of turf taken out of the ground when you play a shot. The word originates from the old Scottish word meaning a turf used for roofing houses. I'm not totally certain what my ancestors called the hole in the ground where the turf had been dug up but I think it was "hole" :)

[Swisstrader98]

My solution avoids this problem; just let golfers move the ball six inches not closer to the hole through the green.

 

Problem solved and the game of golf wouldn't be harmed at all.

 

How about lift clean and place for every shot? Rub of the green is part of the game.

 

Pretty much what Roadking2003 has suggested,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, for a long time now,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

Or were you just being sarcastic ? :dntknw:

Yes, I'd like to see the ball never touched until on the green, unless a penalty stroke is involved.

 

So, play it off a cart path, etc?

 

And why allow touching it on the green?

 

To be honest, when I first started to play golf I heard all this talk about “play it where it lies” and then seeing people pickup their ball up on the green and clean it. Never made much sense to me even thinking about that now.

[Vindog]

Is being able to clean the ball before a putt really making people confused? Things aren't making sense to those people who don't want them to make sense. What they really are confused about is what "fundamental principle" really means. It doesn't mean that it can never be contradicted, or an exception made thereof.

[Roadking2003]

Is being able to clean the ball before a putt really making people confused? Things aren't making sense to those people who don't want them to make sense. What they really are confused about is what "fundamental principle" really means. It doesn't mean that it can never be contradicted, or an exception made thereof.

 

Not confused, but it is inconsistent.

 

Mud on ball in the fairway; too bad, just hit it, "rub of the green", "play it as it lies" and no exception allowed.

 

Mud on ball on the green; you are a lucky golfer, clean it and to hell with "play it as it lies".

[Vindog]

Why would it be consistent? The required shots are different.

[Shilgy]

Is being able to clean the ball before a putt really making people confused? Things aren't making sense to those people who don't want them to make sense. What they really are confused about is what "fundamental principle" really means. It doesn't mean that it can never be contradicted, or an exception made thereof.

 

Not confused, but it is inconsistent.

 

Mud on ball in the fairway; too bad, just hit it, "rub of the green", "play it as it lies" and no exception allowed.

 

Mud on ball on the green; you are a lucky golfer, clean it and to hell with "play it as it lies".

RK

On the tee you can both clean it and tee it up. And it's always been that way.

 

So yes, varying parts of the course are treated differently.

 

This would be like complaining how in baseball sometimes you have to tag the runner but sometimes you can tag the base.

 

Edit, and in baseball every stadium has it's particular ground rules. Akin to you cart path relief.

[nsxguy]

Is being able to clean the ball before a putt really making people confused? Things aren't making sense to those people who don't want them to make sense. What they really are confused about is what "fundamental principle" really means. It doesn't mean that it can never be contradicted, or an exception made thereof.

 

Not confused, but it is inconsistent.

 

Mud on ball in the fairway; too bad, just hit it, "rub of the green", "play it as it lies" and no exception allowed.

 

Mud on ball on the green; you are a lucky golfer, clean it and to hell with "play it as it lies".

 

Why would it be consistent? The required shots are different.

 

You need to understand RK's "history" and his circular reasoning.

 

He's wanted to move his ball out of a divot for a long time now; something that happens maybe a couple of times a year to most players (just IMO, IME).

 

So, to that end, he suggests (above) a rule that one should be able to move the ball "through the green".

 

When challenged with "Play it as it lies" he comes up with the exceptions to that principal to further his "new" agenda (move it through the green) which would then satisfy his original "move it out of a divot" suggestion. Net-net he gets what he wanted in the first place. Can you say "Crazy as a fox" ? :D

 

Of course if one agreed with his new(er) "don't touch it anywhere then" "suggestion" he'd be complaining about a whole lot more than just divots. :lol:

 

As if there's any sport, or any other activity, that's the same now as it was when it was originally conceived,,,,,,,,,,,,, :wacko:

[I_HATE_SNOW]

A divot is without doubt the piece of turf taken out of the ground when you play a shot. The word originates from the old Scottish word meaning a turf used for roofing houses. I'm not totally certain what my ancestors called the hole in the ground where the turf had been dug up but I think it was "hole" :)

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/divot

The chunk of earth is a divot, and the cavity left behind is also called a divot.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

Id prefer that people didn't feel the need to mark, pick up, clean and/or align their GD ball every time they take a putt.

 

Yeah and hit it out of the divot... As someone else said, it might happen a couple times per year.

[sui generis]

A divot is without doubt the piece of turf taken out of the ground when you play a shot. The word originates from the old Scottish word meaning a turf used for roofing houses. I'm not totally certain what my ancestors called the hole in the ground where the turf had been dug up but I think it was "hole" :)

https://www.vocabula...ictionary/divot

The chunk of earth is a divot, and the cavity left behind is also called a divot.

 

The hole is mistakenly called a "divot" by two classes of people (and there's some overlap) TV golf announcers and those not familiar with the Rules. :swoon:

[Newby]

Many modern dictionaries have caught the infection.