Could you play a modern driver at 43"?

[RCGA]

What considerations would you need to take into account if you wanted to play a modern driver (stock length 45.5" give of take) at 43"?

 

I guess, first you'd want to manage the swingweight somehow, but would adding that much weight to the head impact CG location and spin? 

 

Would you want to loft up or down relative to a full-length driver? Do you want to go heavier or lighter in the shaft? 

[Stuart_G]

31 minutes ago, RCGA said:

What considerations would you need to take into account if you wanted to play a modern driver (stock length 45.5" give of take) at 43"?

 

I guess, first you'd want to manage the swingweight somehow, but would adding that much weight to the head impact CG location and spin? 

 

Would you want to loft up or down relative to a full-length driver? Do you want to go heavier or lighter in the shaft? 

 

C.G. - not going to have any significant change.   Keep in mind that a 3wd head (typically played at 43" to 43.5") is only roughly about 10 gm heavier than a driver head.  But forget the swing weight rules in determining how much weight you might have to add.   It's not about keeping the swing weight value the same - it's about finding the best head weight feel.

 

Yes - you also want to make sure to get a proper fit for shaft weight as well as for the head weight.

 

Loft - there is no general rule or tendency for what you might need to do for loft.  You'll have to figure that out after you get everything else fit properly.   It depends on how your swing is influenced by the new setup and what happens to the face impact location tendencies.

 

But instead of randomly picking a length - it's better to take some time to figure out what the best length might be for you and your swing.   This is the thread with the instructions on how to go about doing that as well as figuring out the questions about head weight and shaft weight.   All you need is some lead tape, some foot powder spray, and a bucket of balls at the range.   After you get those figured out, an LM might be helpful to find the best loft to optimize distance.

 

 

Edited April 19 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

34 minutes ago, RCGA said:

What considerations would you need to take into account if you wanted to play a modern driver (stock length 45.5" give of take) at 43"?

 

I guess, first you'd want to manage the swingweight somehow, but would adding that much weight to the head impact CG location and spin? 

 

Would you want to loft up or down relative to a full-length driver? Do you want to go heavier or lighter in the shaft? 

#1 - Since you go that short, you will likely add quite a lot of weight back, so TIP TRIM becomes relevant

#2 - That depends on where that weight is added, and how much we talk about
- 43" is 3W Territory, but drivers has a COG higher than a 3W, so it takes more weight to make a driver "D3" at 43.00", vs a 3W at 43.00" as example

#3 - Since we cant predict how delivery will be, LOFT is the LAST parameter during a fitting, so no charts or "crystal balls" is helpfull to answer that question. 

Edited April 19 by Howard_Jones

[Binson]

You may also want to consider a driver that is more upright to begin with, or has upright settings.  Going shorter in length will play effectively flatter.  That could be for the better as well, so just bringing it up.

[Howard_Jones]

13 minutes ago, Binson said:

You may also want to consider a driver that is more upright to begin with, or has upright settings.  Going shorter in length will play effectively flatter.  That could be for the better as well, so just bringing it up.

Thats not really a big concern.
Look into Tom Wishons clubs, his drivers is normally 58* while a 3W is often 57*, even if the driver is longer, so IMO, drivers is TOO upright as they are, and becomes "better" when we go shorter, and most of them has a tuning option today, so lie angle is not really a big deal here.

[Binson]

8 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Thats not really a big concern.
Look into Tom Wishons clubs, his drivers is normally 58* while a 3W is often 57*, even if the driver is longer, so IMO, drivers is TOO upright as they are, and becomes "better" when we go shorter, and most of them has a tuning option today, so lie angle is not really a big deal here.

It's certainly less important. But, depending on what you may be currently used to, it can be a consideration if you're someone who prefers a specific look.  One of the reasons I'm in my driver is how flat it looks when set open at 45.75 length.  If I grip down 2 inches, it starts looking a bit too toe-down for my personal liking.

 

Again, just bringing it up as a consideration. It may be a factor for some, and can be positive or negative.   

[Stuart_G]

19 hours ago, Binson said:

But, depending on what you may be currently used to, it can be a consideration if you're someone who prefers a specific look. 

 

Visual issues are certainly possible.  

 

Some people can even have a problem with a head that big being that close to them at address irrespective of the lie angle.

 

That's actually one of the reasons it's better to work your way down to a particular length instead of just making a big jump.  If it is a problem, it will show up in the testing and self fitting process.

Edited April 20 by Stuart_G

[Poor Mans Ty Webb]

Lots of great info here from some incredible and experienced minds, so hopefully you'll permit a lesser minded individual to share a bit of anecdotal stuff...

 

I've put a 7w shaft in my driver and hit balls at the range a couple of times for kicks.  It's definitely doable.  If I were going to seriously go that short, I'd personally be strongly considering a shaft in the 80g weight class at that length with some probable tipping and a lot of weight added to the head.  Everything beyond that (loft, lie, and moveable weight adjustments) is likely just part of the normal process of dialing in a driver head.

 

I have also built my driver(s) to play at 44" and that took a shaft in the 70g weight class with about 0.5" of additional tipping and about 10-14g of added weight to get it feeling right.  I'm not everyone, but I think at 43" I've probably hit the point of diminishing returns where I'm losing more distance than I'm gaining accuracy/consistency, but I find the 44" setup very playable and versatile; it's reasonable to be able to play a sort of "safe" punchy cut/knockdown shot while also being able to tee it high and let it fly.

 

Heads with moveable weight tracks are very helpful for this kind of tinkering.  I've done my goofing around with a Ping G410+ and a Mizuno ST200G.

 

[Howard_Jones]

27 minutes ago, Binson said:

It's certainly less important. But, depending on what you may be currently used to, it can be a consideration if you're someone who prefers a specific look.  One of the reasons I'm in my driver is how flat it looks when set open at 45.75 length.  If I grip down 2 inches, it starts looking a bit too toe-down for my personal liking.

 

Again, just bringing it up as a consideration. It may be a factor for some, and can be positive or negative.   

Thats a very valid point (how it looks), i did not think of that, only what lie angle itself does or not on a driver, but if it don't look right to the player, he might start with all kinds of strange compensations, just like irons with or without offset, where some need offset for confidence, others loose confidence when they see the same offset. So you was more right than i saw at first, since "looks and feel" is factors we cant ignore (they are very important), no matter what the specs themselves is... 

[TKS]

This has been a hot topic for me recently as I have been fitting some players who can't seem to hit a driver and instead rely on a 3 wood off the tee. The first pass is to replicate weights and profiles of their 3wood in an inch longer config.  Wishon has been a proponent of the 43" - 44.5" driver lengths for years, he designed the 719MW head is great for these situations, with the lightest initial head-weight in the industry and greatest weighting system on the planet.

 

 

[Multipass613]

I play my driver at 44" so absolutely!

 

Measure twice and cut once. Tape off your grip where it hits 43", try it for a couple rounds, range sessions, etc. Make sure you like the length.

 

Then add lead tape or buy OEM weights to get the swing weight back to where you like it.

[third-times-a-charm]

I am testing a 440cc driver head since Callaway is selling them so cheap right now @ 43.75" and maybe shorter if testing goes okay.

[dsmil]

It's a lot of trial and error.  I think a decent starting point is adding weight to the head to get about half of the lost SW back.  So call it 10g for you.  From there, testing out a heavier shaft vs. the current one and adding/removing lead tape would be a good idea.  Maybe you could just pick up some 3 wood shafts to test out.

 

I play my driver and 5 wood 1.5 inches short and the formula that is working is adding 7g to the head and having a 10g heavier shaft.  I used to simply add a ton of lead tape to get the SW back to D2 and this current method for me feels more balanced.  You're basically turning a driver into a 3 wood feel (heavier head and shaft).

 

 

[Stuart_G]

1 hour ago, dsmil said:

Maybe you could just pick up some 3 wood shafts to test out.

 

The only thing about this is that you have to understand that the differences in BBGM between fairway heads and driver heads will mean you wont get the same playing length with the driver as you did with the fairway.   Typically it will be 1/2" to 3/4" longer with the driver head than it did with the fairway.   e.g. a 3wd shaft that plays 43.5" in the 3wd will give you about 44+"  in a driver.

 

[NRJyzr]

I've done this a few times in the past few years.  43", 43.25", 43.5", all sorts of fun.

 

The process I've used....   I add weight back to the clubhead.  The lead tape gods are pleased with me.  In some instances, I've used heavier weights from the OEMs; I've replaced the 2g weight with my Cobra SpeedZone with something considerably heavier.  I also use heavy shafts, but that's a personal preference; I have used heavier shafts even at 44.5".  90g, 100g, nothing is eliminated from consideration.

 

In terms of shaft flex, my aging has helped me there.  In the past, I would sometimes use 3w shafts, or tip the shaft, but as I've aged, I've been sticking with my stash of Xstiff shafts, not tipping them for install, and allowing the added club weight bring me to the flex I'm liking.

 

I'll add that my adding weight back to the clubhead is what I've found to work for me, I'm not just blindly doing it.  In fact, I've sometimes gone a bit heavier than I might otherwise, ramping up to D7 or D8 swingweight.

 

[Howard_Jones]

26 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

I've done this a few times in the past few years.  43", 43.25", 43.5", all sorts of fun.

 

The process I've used....   I add weight back to the clubhead.  The lead tape gods are pleased with me.  In some instances, I've used heavier weights from the OEMs; I've replaced the 2g weight with my Cobra SpeedZone with something considerably heavier.  I also use heavy shafts, but that's a personal preference; I have used heavier shafts even at 44.5".  90g, 100g, nothing is eliminated from consideration.

 

In terms of shaft flex, my aging has helped me there.  In the past, I would sometimes use 3w shafts, or tip the shaft, but as I've aged, I've been sticking with my stash of Xstiff shafts, not tipping them for install, and allowing the added club weight bring me to the flex I'm liking.

 

I'll add that my adding weight back to the clubhead is what I've found to work for me, I'm not just blindly doing it.  In fact, I've sometimes gone a bit heavier than I might otherwise, ramping up to D7 or D8 swingweight.

 

How could i forget to mention higher shaft wgt?
(5 grams uncut shaft wgt UP per inch shorter)

im getting old, and forget details like that, so its not only club speed thats slower, the head is not as sharp and quick as it was either...

[Pnwpingi210]

Shane bacon and Marty jertson just did a WITB for 2024 and Marty (ping engineer and executive and legit tournament golfer) put a ping mini driver in the bag this year.  I think it’s a 430 max head at 12.0 and plays around 43-44 with a 75 gram shaft.  Videos on the YouTube’s.

[Louis_Posture]

7 hours ago, RCGA said:

What considerations would you need to take into account if you wanted to play a modern driver (stock length 45.5" give of take) at 43"?

 

460CC head size drivers were designed to be played at 45" to 46" finished length, so the first consideration is whether one would like looking at such a large head attached to a 43" shaft.

 

7 hours ago, RCGA said:

 

 

I guess, first you'd want to manage the swingweight somehow, but would adding that much weight to the head impact CG location and spin? 

 

 

Yes, adding approximately 15 grams of weight to a 460CC driver head will likely cause negative consequences to shot making consistency and quality, especially too much spin. 

7 hours ago, RCGA said:

 

 

Would you want to loft up or down relative to a full-length driver? Do you want to go heavier or lighter in the shaft? 

11* to 13* loft to the head with a 7-weight graphite shaft.

[Nard_S]

The new TM Burner is 43.75", great platform to work off.

[phizzy30]

I'd play an 80 gram shaft instead of 70 gram.  I'd also have to add hot melt or lead tape to the sole to get the swing weight to D5. 

[boggyman]

Been at 43.5” forever. Couple strips of lead tape and I’m good to go. Green NV 65 gram shaft. Found this through sheer luck as my playing length.

[RCGA]

43 minutes ago, Nard_S said:

The new TM Burner is 43.75", great platform to work off.

 

I have a TM 300 mini driver (and an Original One before that) but am selling it. 

 

If you're not going to hit it off the deck, there's absolutely no point in owning one.

[boggyman]

25 minutes ago, RCGA said:

 

I have a TM 300 mini driver (and an Original One before that) but am selling it. 

 

If you're not going to hit it off the deck, there's absolutely no point in owning one.

I can’t give my 300 Mini away….

[joostin]

I think it's a good application esp for the shorter 2nd driver crowd (incl the reputable Marty Jertson with a G430 Max 12° at 42.75" in his witb vid).

 

I'm stubbornly trying to make the short 2nd driver happen, as it's a club I don't need, but it can give pure joy.. posted in my witb link.  My approach is a low loft stinger club though.  Haven't swung it on course yet.  Not sure if I'll need more loft and spin, and would go back to a semi reliable FW wood if it doesn't work out, but you know, stubborn 😆.  It's fun though.  And yes pile on the lead tape!

[rbpwrx]

4 hours ago, boggyman said:

I can’t give my 300 Mini away….

 

You can to me.

[rbpwrx]

13 hours ago, RCGA said:

What considerations would you need to take into account if you wanted to play a modern driver (stock length 45.5" give of take) at 43"?

 

I guess, first you'd want to manage the swingweight somehow, but would adding that much weight to the head impact CG location and spin? 

 

Would you want to loft up or down relative to a full-length driver? Do you want to go heavier or lighter in the shaft? 

I play shorter drivers. 43" T-M 300Ti w/ OG Blue, 43.5" 983E w/ X100, 44" R7 Quad TP w/ Rogue Silver 70TX 125msi, etc. My 2¢: you're gonna want a heavier smaller head and a heavier tipped shaft. As others have said. I'm anywhere between 300 and 430cc on the head, up around 210g on weight, and 75g-ish plus on shaft weight. Tipped anywhere from 1" to 3" IME. Enjoy! Much better club for me than the broomstick melonheads.

[RCGA]

10 hours ago, joostin said:

I think it's a good application esp for the shorter 2nd driver crowd (incl the reputable Marty Jertson with a G430 Max 12° at 42.75" in his witb vid).

 

That Marty video is what sparked by interest. I wish they'd do a video just on the driver build but I'm not sure how much Ping wants to advertise a build that is so out of spec. 

 

I already have a G430 Max but the heaviest head weight I can find on Aliexpress is 36g (stock is 25g)

 

If cutting 2" = 12 sw points and adding +10g of headweight = 5sw points, I'd be looking at something in the C6 sw category. 

 

Marty must be adding an addition +25g over the stock headweight to get a reasonable swing weight. 

[ShortGolfer]

I've been experimenting with a 41 inch driver to figure out the last club I need to play golf well.

 

Despite having a stroke 25 years ago, I have enough balance, coordination, and flexibility to use a long backswing to hit the ball straight down the fairway!

A rare combination at my age even without having had that catastrophic accident.

It seems I need a stronger grip than with my fade or draw to get the desired ball flight, but that doesn't seem to hurt the club head speed.  

 

It may be that having a long backswing allows me a better chance of getting everything properly sequenced with the right tempo and not rush things.

[jblough99]

1 hour ago, RCGA said:

 

That Marty video is what sparked by interest. I wish they'd do a video just on the driver build but I'm not sure how much Ping wants to advertise a build that is so out of spec. 

 

I already have a G430 Max but the heaviest head weight I can find on Aliexpress is 36g (stock is 25g)

 

If cutting 2" = 12 sw points and adding +10g of headweight = 5sw points, I'd be looking at something in the C6 sw category. 

 

Marty must be adding an addition +25g over the stock headweight to get a reasonable swing weight. 

Ping driver heads are notoriously heavy vs the rest of the industry.  I doubt he added anywhere near 25 grams to that head.  The 430 max standard head weighs 206 grams with the standard 25 gram rear weight.  His playing length is basically at 3 wood length and a standard 3 wood head is around 215-218 grams, so we are only talking about 9-11 grams.  Seems like a 36 gram rear weight would be ideal.

Edited April 20 by jblough99

[Stuart_G]

4 hours ago, jblough99 said:

Ping driver heads are notoriously heavy vs the rest of the industry.  I doubt he added anywhere near 25 grams to that head.

 

You need to add even less if you swap out the high balance point ("counterbalanced") stock shafts for one that has a more normal balance point.