Fairway divot rule

[BiggErn]

In the case that an old divot is hard to distinguish between that and the normal ground, what advantage is there to pick up and drop a yard away. There is really no advantage to a golfer picking up a ball and dropping it a yard away in what might be considered a debatable divot. In fact, there is really no Advantage picking up any golf ball and dropping it within one yard of its original location. Golf is a game of trust in etiquette, and I think the rules should embrace the idea that most golfers will be honest about their methods. If people are dishonest, well that is their issue.

 

Respectfully, the advantage might be that you could then change other aspects of your lie not related to the divot hole. You could move from ball above feet to flat, hardpan to grass, edge of fairway to away from second cut, etc...

 

Change the angle of the shot needed to get around a tree branch...drop it next to a sprinkler head or some other obstruction and have free relief improve your position even more....

 

And if the rules were to allow every ball in the fairway to be moved, taking any of those actions would not be dishonest at all.

 

How many tour rounds played LCP this past season?

[HitEmTrue]

In the case that an old divot is hard to distinguish between that and the normal ground, what advantage is there to pick up and drop a yard away. There is really no advantage to a golfer picking up a ball and dropping it a yard away in what might be considered a debatable divot. In fact, there is really no Advantage picking up any golf ball and dropping it within one yard of its original location. Golf is a game of trust in etiquette, and I think the rules should embrace the idea that most golfers will be honest about their methods. If people are dishonest, well that is their issue.

 

Respectfully, the advantage might be that you could then change other aspects of your lie not related to the divot hole. You could move from ball above feet to flat, hardpan to grass, edge of fairway to away from second cut, etc...

 

Change the angle of the shot needed to get around a tree branch...drop it next to a sprinkler head or some other obstruction and have free relief improve your position even more....

 

And if the rules were to allow every ball in the fairway to be moved, taking any of those actions would not be dishonest at all.

 

How many tour rounds played LCP this past season?

 

Probably more than they should.

 

What does that have to do with dropping a ball one yard away?

[BiggErn]

In the case that an old divot is hard to distinguish between that and the normal ground, what advantage is there to pick up and drop a yard away. There is really no advantage to a golfer picking up a ball and dropping it a yard away in what might be considered a debatable divot. In fact, there is really no Advantage picking up any golf ball and dropping it within one yard of its original location. Golf is a game of trust in etiquette, and I think the rules should embrace the idea that most golfers will be honest about their methods. If people are dishonest, well that is their issue.

 

Respectfully, the advantage might be that you could then change other aspects of your lie not related to the divot hole. You could move from ball above feet to flat, hardpan to grass, edge of fairway to away from second cut, etc...

 

Change the angle of the shot needed to get around a tree branch...drop it next to a sprinkler head or some other obstruction and have free relief improve your position even more....

 

And if the rules were to allow every ball in the fairway to be moved, taking any of those actions would not be dishonest at all.

 

How many tour rounds played LCP this past season?

 

Probably more than they should.

 

What does that have to do with dropping a ball one yard away?

 

 

Isn’t that essentially what LCP is? Don’t they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

[HitEmTrue]

Isn’t that essentially what LCP is? Don’t they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

 

LCP is six inches I beliveve, not one yard, and it is put in place when abnormal conditions exist because of rain. As an example of frequency, it has only been used for one time in a PGA championship.

 

Pickup up your golf ball should be an unusual event. Not available on every single ball in the fairway.

[Mikey5e]

 

Isn’t that essentially what LCP is? Don’t they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

Excellent point!

Golf is a gentleman's sport, a game of honor, and besides, anybody can cheat anytime when someone's not looking. So the majority of the time basically, we are trusting the Integrity of each golfer. To take a free drop from an unrepaired divot would have to go through your playing partners. Call one over asking for relief from an unrepaired divot and respect there decision. As the good point above alluded to, there already is lift clean and place all the way up to and including the professional level. How could it be? We are trusting others to lift clean and place, but not in the case of an unrepaired divot? People always show resistance to change, like it's going to destroy the game or something, but in reality it will make it more enjoyable and prosperous.

[BiggErn]

Isn’t that essentially what LCP is? Don’t they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

 

LCP is six inches I beliveve, not one yard, and it is put in place when abnormal conditions exist because of rain. As an example of frequency, it has only been used for one time in a PGA championship.

 

Pickup up your golf ball should be an unusual event. Not available on every single ball in the fairway.

 

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

[nsxguy]

Isn't that essentially what LCP is? Don't they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

 

Excellent point!

 

Golf is a gentleman's sport, a game of honor, and besides, anybody can cheat anytime when someone's not looking. So the majority of the time basically, we are trusting the Integrity of each golfer. To take a free drop from an unrepaired divot would have to go through your playing partners. Call one over asking for relief from an unrepaired divot and respect there decision. As the good point above alluded to, there already is lift clean and place all the way up to and including the professional level. How could it be? We are trusting others to lift clean and place, but not in the case of an unrepaired divot? People always show resistance to change, like it's going to destroy the game or something, but in reality it will make it more enjoyable and prosperous.

 

Haven't figure out how to quote somebody yet ? :taunt:

 

The difference is when the Tour plays LCP it's because they have to get the round in and the game wouldn't resemble golf with all the mud balls flying this way and that.

 

So they do it to level the playing field in ADVERSE conditions, NOT during the normal course of play as you and others want to do. :hi:

[HitEmTrue]

To take a free drop from an unrepaired divot would have to go through your playing partners. Call one over asking for relief from an unrepaired divot and respect there decision. As the good point above alluded to, there already is lift clean and place all the way up to and including the professional level. How could it be? We are trusting others to lift clean and place, but not in the case of an unrepaired divot? People always show resistance to change, like it's going to destroy the game or something, but in reality it will make it more enjoyable and prosperous.

 

The application of rules don't "go through" fellow competitors.

 

There is no trust involved in LCP; everyone is getting to do it that round.

 

And question has been, and still is, the DEFINITION of a divot hole. "You know it when you see it" is certainly not how it would be worded in the rules. "Call your partners over and vote on it" is not, either.

[HitEmTrue]

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

 

Interesting!

[Newby]

 

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

 

It is what the committee specifies. It may be 6", 1 yard, 1cl or whatever they decide.

[BiggErn]

Isn’t that essentially what LCP is? Don’t they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

 

LCP is six inches I beliveve, not one yard, and it is put in place when abnormal conditions exist because of rain. As an example of frequency, it has only been used for one time in a PGA championship.

 

Pickup up your golf ball should be an unusual event. Not available on every single ball in the fairway.

 

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

 

It is what the committee specifies. It may be 6" or 1cl or whatever they decide.

 

 

Do they issue rulers?

[SNIPERBBB]

Usually a scorecard length here.

[Newby]

Usually a scorecard length here.

I believe that is what it was when the LR was first published.

[HitEmTrue]

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

 

It is what the committee specifies. It may be 6", 1 yard, 1cl or whatever they decide.

 

From what I'm finding in online articles, the PGA uses 1 cl. May not be authoritative sources.

[Newby]

It’s a club length not nearer the hole. Not 6”

 

It is what the committee specifies. It may be 6", 1 yard, 1cl or whatever they decide.

 

From what I'm finding in online articles, the PGA uses 1 cl. May not be authoritative sources.

They do.

6" is virtually universal in the UK and Europe amateur game.

[Vindog]

LCP has nothing to do with divot holes, neither do sprinkler heads or ground under repair.

Isn't that essentially what LCP is? Don't they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

Excellent point!

Golf is a gentleman's sport, a game of honor, and besides, anybody can cheat anytime when someone's not looking. So the majority of the time basically, we are trusting the Integrity of each golfer. To take a free drop from an unrepaired divot would have to go through your playing partners. Call one over asking for relief from an unrepaired divot and respect there decision. As the good point above alluded to, there already is lift clean and place all the way up to and including the professional level. How could it be? We are trusting others to lift clean and place, but not in the case of an unrepaired divot? People always show resistance to change, like it's going to destroy the game or something, but in reality it will make it more enjoyable and prosperous.

 

Not all change is for the better, would you agree?

[BiggErn]

LCP has nothing to do with divot holes, neither do sprinkler heads or ground under repair.

Isn't that essentially what LCP is? Don't they do it to avoid bad lies and mud balls so the player gets rewarded for a good shot in the fairway? Why do fairway conditions only matter at certain times and not all the time?

Excellent point!

Golf is a gentleman's sport, a game of honor, and besides, anybody can cheat anytime when someone's not looking. So the majority of the time basically, we are trusting the Integrity of each golfer. To take a free drop from an unrepaired divot would have to go through your playing partners. Call one over asking for relief from an unrepaired divot and respect there decision. As the good point above alluded to, there already is lift clean and place all the way up to and including the professional level. How could it be? We are trusting others to lift clean and place, but not in the case of an unrepaired divot? People always show resistance to change, like it's going to destroy the game or something, but in reality it will make it more enjoyable and prosperous.

 

Not all change is for the better, would you agree?

 

 

Sure it does.

[Vindog]

Just because you say it does, doesn't mean it actually does.

[BiggErn]

Just because you say it does, doesn't mean it actually does.

 

Except it does. It’s not subjective.

[sdandrea]

The main reason I stay out of this discussion (not that anyone cares), is that the rule seems inconsequential to me. I play over 130 rounds a year, I hit a TON of fairways and I cannot remember if I EVER landed in a fairway divot. If I did, I'm pretty sure it didn't blow my round up.

[Vindog]

Just because you say it does, doesn't mean it actually does.

 

Except it does. It’s not subjective.

 

Clearly by the content of this thread, it is. Also, what defines it in the first place is subjective.

[Augster]

The main reason I stay out of this discussion (not that anyone cares), is that the rule seems inconsequential to me. I play over 130 rounds a year, I hit a TON of fairways and I cannot remember if I EVER landed in a fairway divot. If I did, I'm pretty sure it didn't blow my round up.

 

This.

 

It’s not a big deal at all. Why some choose this windmill to charge is beyond me. “I don’t think it’s fair to play from a divot the one or two times in 100 rounds it may happen!”

 

If it happened more often, the ruling bodies would take a serious look at it. Since it’s less than 1/100 anomaly, they don’t feel they have to. Additionally, one can still occasionally par or birdie after landing in a divot whereas they may not have had they taken a free drop. We have to discount those as well.

 

So the “penalty” for hitting it into a fairway divot actually gets smaller and smaller once one adds in making par or birdie from a divot lie they would have taken relief from.

[dlygrisse]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

[hybrid25]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

you have to hit it in the Fairway first in order to land in a divot. har har

[jslane57]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

you have to hit it in the Fairway first in order to land in a divot. har har

This is the truth! In all of my golfing, there is truly only one fairway that I seem to land in divots. It is a par 5 where the layup is 100 yards out with water between the fairway and green. All the divots from folk's wedges fly into the water and thus are not replaced. It is a low spot to begin with and the ground is always soft. This area of the course is more divots than fairway it seems. With the water, getting into a deep divot means missing the green and having a birdie turn into a bogey. Is this a course issue? sure, but making that fairway ground under repair is also silly as it is not under repair. Instead the pertinent play is to avoid the area, and thus not playing the hole strategically best due to divot avoidance in the middle of the fairway. I only bring this up to showcase that there are plenty of golfers out there and on this board that don't see holes like this, that don't get in divots that alter their score, but that doesn't mean these situations don't exit and shouldn't be addressed...

[terrell75]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

you have to hit it in the Fairway first in order to land in a divot. har har

This is the truth! In all of my golfing, there is truly only one fairway that I seem to land in divots. It is a par 5 where the layup is 100 yards out with water between the fairway and green. All the divots from folk's wedges fly into the water and thus are not replaced. It is a low spot to begin with and the ground is always soft. This area of the course is more divots than fairway it seems. With the water, getting into a deep divot means missing the green and having a birdie turn into a bogey. Is this a course issue? sure, but making that fairway ground under repair is also silly as it is not under repair. Instead the pertinent play is to avoid the area, and thus not playing the hole strategically best due to divot avoidance in the middle of the fairway. I only bring this up to showcase that there are plenty of golfers out there and on this board that don't see holes like this, that don't get in divots that alter their score, but that doesn't mean these situations don't exit and shouldn't be addressed...

 

Apply a local rule for that particular hole, maybe?

[BiggErn]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

you have to hit it in the Fairway first in order to land in a divot. har har

This is the truth! In all of my golfing, there is truly only one fairway that I seem to land in divots. It is a par 5 where the layup is 100 yards out with water between the fairway and green. All the divots from folk's wedges fly into the water and thus are not replaced. It is a low spot to begin with and the ground is always soft. This area of the course is more divots than fairway it seems. With the water, getting into a deep divot means missing the green and having a birdie turn into a bogey. Is this a course issue? sure, but making that fairway ground under repair is also silly as it is not under repair. Instead the pertinent play is to avoid the area, and thus not playing the hole strategically best due to divot avoidance in the middle of the fairway. I only bring this up to showcase that there are plenty of golfers out there and on this board that don't see holes like this, that don't get in divots that alter their score, but that doesn't mean these situations don't exit and shouldn't be addressed...

 

Apply a local rule for that particular hole, maybe?

 

 

For most county ams in my area they always play the ball up and mark so much area a GUR that it’s not funny.

[Mikey5e]

I was trying to find a photo online that would do justice to the position I was in, that being my ball lodged up to the leading edge of an unrepaired deep divot. The closest thing I found was a photo that was found right here on WRX, linked blow. Imagine this divot with your ball shoved all the way up towards the front of it, the direction in which you are wanting to go, with a lot of hazzards surrounding everything you're looking at. If the person who made the divot could have filled it in with the sand mixture, or the original turf he hit out of it, everything would probably be okay. I am just assuming he had a bad shot from there and said screw it I'm not going to replace or repair my divot. Personally, I think the rules could accommodate the idea of a free drop in an unrepaired divot, but not a repaired one that is fixed by its own sod or the sand mixture.

http://www.golfwrx.c...ee/page__st__60

[nsxguy]

I was trying to find a photo online that would do justice to the position I was in, that being my ball lodged up to the leading edge of an unrepaired deep divot. The closest thing I found was a photo that was found right here on WRX, linked blow. Imagine this divot with your ball shoved all the way up towards the front of it, the direction in which you are wanting to go, with a lot of hazzards surrounding everything you're looking at. If the person who made the divot could have filled it in with the sand mixture, or the original turf he hit out of it, everything would probably be okay. I am just assuming he had a bad shot from there and said screw it I'm not going to replace or repair my divot. Personally, I think the rules could accommodate the idea of a free drop in an unrepaired divot, but not a repaired one that is fixed by its own sod or the sand mixture.

http://www.golfwrx.c...ee/page__st__60

 

Well Mikey, ya messed up the link but,,,,,,,

 

http://www.usga.org/rules/rules-and-decisions.html#!rule-28

[jslane57]

I’ve been playing golf for 35 years. I can think of only one time I had a divot lie so bad that I couldn’t hit some kind of decent shot. I landed in a 4” deep soggy crater that some hack dug with a wedge about 40 yards from the green. (If you play Deer Creek In Overland Park, then you know who you are). Couldn’t see the ball till I was on top of it. Yes my buddies made me play it, I got it about 1/2 way to the green. :)

 

Landing in a real divot happens so infrequently that it’s something I rarely think about. The worst lies I usually get are in the rough when there are hard pan patches between clumps of rough.

you have to hit it in the Fairway first in order to land in a divot. har har

This is the truth! In all of my golfing, there is truly only one fairway that I seem to land in divots. It is a par 5 where the layup is 100 yards out with water between the fairway and green. All the divots from folk's wedges fly into the water and thus are not replaced. It is a low spot to begin with and the ground is always soft. This area of the course is more divots than fairway it seems. With the water, getting into a deep divot means missing the green and having a birdie turn into a bogey. Is this a course issue? sure, but making that fairway ground under repair is also silly as it is not under repair. Instead the pertinent play is to avoid the area, and thus not playing the hole strategically best due to divot avoidance in the middle of the fairway. I only bring this up to showcase that there are plenty of golfers out there and on this board that don't see holes like this, that don't get in divots that alter their score, but that doesn't mean these situations don't exit and shouldn't be addressed...

 

Apply a local rule for that particular hole, maybe?

 

 

For most county ams in my area they always play the ball up and mark so much area a GUR that it’s not funny.

Playing the ball up and marking areas GUR when this is not done on an everyday basis is simply not right. Not right for HCP competitions or even for the rules. If events are playing the ball up, so should non-events. Further evidence that this rule should be changed...