Fairway divot rule

[DeeBee30]

This topic is valid. Today the game is different. Clubs are different. Balls are different. And the course is different. Divots are deeper than they once were as courses have softened. Clubs have bigger flanges as they're designed to hit off soft turf. The game once played on hard courses with clubs without flanges, divots were not as deep and they weren't as hard to escape. I do think the divot rule should be changed. I do think in one's own fairway it should simply be preferred lies. So it is against the spirit of the game? So is the modern ball, so is the modern driver, so is music on the course, so it the power cart, so is the long putter. The list of things that are worse than getting relief from a divot goes on and on...

 

Now this is a great response!

 

Agree! Reminds me of Saving Private Ryan when Captain Miller says “Reiben, pay attention. Now, this is the way to gripe.”

[Shilgy]

Playing the ball up and marking areas GUR when this is not done on an everyday basis is simply not right. Not right for HCP competitions or even for the rules. If events are playing the ball up, so should non-events. Further evidence that this rule should be changed...

I would have said the county ams referred to were incorrect in their liberal use of gur and playing the ball up.

[Swisstrader98]

Super soft conditions here in NJ due to boatloads of rain these past few weeks. I have a buddy who’s a very decent golfer but carves out the biggest divots any of us have ever seen. Literally 3-4 times the size of your “average” divot. Now with the rains and wet conditions, the divot this guy takes look like someone took a shovel to the fairway. He does his best between sand and fixing his divots but I’m very glad I play in his group vs after our group???

[Mikey5e]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

[sui generis]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

 

You and your 90% friends don't know the Rules and even if you did you wouldn't abide by them anyway. The ruling bodies are not obligated to dumb down the Rules to the lowest common denominator. So, go ahead with your game . . . mulligans, fluff it up and gimmes; you're entitled to all that and more! No one else cares. :swoon:

[nsxguy]

Super soft conditions here in NJ due to boatloads of rain these past few weeks. I have a buddy who's a very decent golfer but carves out the biggest divots any of us have ever seen. Literally 3-4 times the size of your "average" divot. Now with the rains and wet conditions, the divot this guy takes look like someone took a shovel to the fairway. He does his best between sand and fixing his divots but I'm very glad I play in his group vs after our group

 

Sand ? IN NJ ?

 

I thought filling the divot with sand was a southern belt kind of thing. Bermuda grass and all.

 

I would think that far north it would be replace the divot or leave it alone. Although I guess if anybody is taking that big of a divot, if possible, they should try to collect some of the dirt that was dug up and put it back.

[Shilgy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size.:)

[nsxguy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

 

By your posts I expect you're a younger guy - 'bout 25 or so ? Maybe younger.

 

Personally I can't remember the last time I landed in a divot - or ANYBODY I've played with actually. Yet you can suggest that 90% of all golfers take their ball out of the divot. I find that somewhat,,,,,,,,,, interesting,,,,,,,,,

 

Now, I will give you that pretty much ANY casual golfer, one that plays for fun, doesn't compete with anybody, and certainly doesn't keep a handicap, almost certainly won't hit out of a divot unless he/she wants to "see what happens". Also you have those that play preferred lies all the time.

 

But then, as Sui mentioned, nobody cares about any of those guys. In the scheme of Rules type subjects, "they" simply don't count. And if I'm playing any sort of competition where there are NO preferred lies, I'd be tickled pink to play against these DEflated handicaps because of the built-in advantage it gives ME.

 

Because if they don't hit out of divots and play preferred lies all the times they won't be able to deal with anything even slightly negative when it "counts". Can you imagine if they have to hit a ball with a speck of dirt on it ? :swoon:

[davep043]

Super soft conditions here in NJ due to boatloads of rain these past few weeks. I have a buddy who's a very decent golfer but carves out the biggest divots any of us have ever seen. Literally 3-4 times the size of your "average" divot. Now with the rains and wet conditions, the divot this guy takes look like someone took a shovel to the fairway. He does his best between sand and fixing his divots but I'm very glad I play in his group vs after our group������

 

Sand ? IN NJ ?

 

I thought filling the divot with sand was a southern belt kind of thing. Bermuda grass and all.

 

I talked with your superintendent once about using sand in bent-grass fairways. He prefers that divots that include the root structure be replaced, but understands that many times the mowers will just pull them back out. But he told me that bent grass is also a "creeper" like Bermuda. The grass will fill in a hole if the surface is relatively level (as when the hole is filled with sand) much faster than if the hole remains well below the grass surface. The grass won't grow into air, essentially, but it WILL grow into the sand.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

When does a divot stop being a divot? Or are you just going to propose unlimited fluffing?

[I_HATE_SNOW]

It would be easier to just allow a tee to be used on every shot.

[nsxguy]

Super soft conditions here in NJ due to boatloads of rain these past few weeks. I have a buddy who's a very decent golfer but carves out the biggest divots any of us have ever seen. Literally 3-4 times the size of your "average" divot. Now with the rains and wet conditions, the divot this guy takes look like someone took a shovel to the fairway. He does his best between sand and fixing his divots but I'm very glad I play in his group vs after our group������

 

Sand ? IN NJ ?

 

I thought filling the divot with sand was a southern belt kind of thing. Bermuda grass and all.

 

I talked with your superintendent once about using sand in bent-grass fairways. He prefers that divots that include the root structure be replaced, but understands that many times the mowers will just pull them back out. But he told me that bent grass is also a "creeper" like Bermuda. The grass will fill in a hole if the surface is relatively level (as when the hole is filled with sand) much faster than if the hole remains well below the grass surface. The grass won't grow into air, essentially, but it WILL grow into the sand.

 

That's interesting.

 

I was told, granted in the distant past, that Bermuda was filled in with sand because replacing the actually divot would starve the roots of air and they would not grow up through the replaced divot. And the roots from the divot itself would not re-root itself down into the dirt below - so the divot would die (of course) eventually and the Bermuda couldn't grow up through the divot until the dead divot was removed - I guess by a cart rolling over it or it being knocked away by a golfer,,,,,,,,,, or a course worker.

 

Bent (& other grass ?) divots would be replaced because the roots would grow downward and re-root and repair itself.

 

Other popular strains of grass nowadays ? :dntknw:

[jslane57]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

I’ve never seen anyone roll the ball out of a divot when playing it down. If 90% of folks did so without care, this would not be a hot topic. Of course, a rule would cease to be a rule with only 10% compliance. The post about tournaments throwing out rules is where the USGA needs to pay attention. County Ams are the place rules should truly be followed, and if a rule is written to where it can’t, it should be changed.

[Mikey5e]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size.:)

You must play with only the blue noses.

[nsxguy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

You must play with only the blue noses.

You must play with only the ageists/millennials.

 

You know, not answering questions and ignoring other POVs.

[Mikey5e]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

You must play with only the blue noses.

You must play with only the ageists/millennials.

 

You know, not answering questions and ignoring other POVs.

nope, I just like to play casual golf 50% of the time. That way I can roll the ball out of a divot, use a foot wedge, or maybe a mulligan when I feel like it. The other for 50% is by all the rules tournament-style. People get too serious about the game and can't enjoy themselves. It's nice to let your guard down and just play casual golf. Some golfers just cannot do that, they're too hung up on the rules.

[nsxguy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

You must play with only the blue noses.

You must play with only the ageists/millennials.

 

You know, not answering questions and ignoring other POVs.

nope, I just like to play casual golf 50% of the time. That way I can roll the ball out of a divot, use a foot wedge, or maybe a mulligan when I feel like it. The other for 50% is by all the rules tournament-style. People get too serious about the game and can't enjoy themselves. It's nice to let your guard down and just play casual golf. Some golfers just cannot do that, they're too hung up on the rules.

 

So then you have no (real) basis for your 90% guess then ? Thought as much.

 

Are these casual rounds included in your 'cap ?

[BlackDiamondPar5]

I'm still looking for the answer to when a divot stops being a divot for which you'd be entitled to relief?

 

As for how to deal with it during non-tournament rounds, why not just have a deal with your opponents? It's not like it happens with great regularity, so just deal with the exceptions on your own.

[Golfer4Life]

Like I always say, if I wanna have a hard time I go back to work.

[jslane57]

I'm still looking for the answer to when a divot stops being a divot for which you'd be entitled to relief?

 

As for how to deal with it during non-tournament rounds, why not just have a deal with your opponents? It's not like it happens with great regularity, so just deal with the exceptions on your own.

Because agreement to waive a rule is breaking the rules. And if you break one, why not break them all? In reference to your question, it would need to be agreed by your group. Like casual water.

[Shilgy]

 

 

So then you have no (real) basis for your 90% guess then ? Thought as much.

 

Are these casual rounds included in your 'cap ?

Time to end the conversation with Mikey.

[sui generis]

I'm still looking for the answer to when a divot stops being a divot for which you'd be entitled to relief?

 

As for how to deal with it during non-tournament rounds, why not just have a deal with your opponents? It's not like it happens with great regularity, so just deal with the exceptions on your own.

Because agreement to waive a rule is breaking the rules. And if you break one, why not break them all? In reference to your question, it would need to be agreed by your group. Like casual water.

 

There is no need to collude on casual water. Casual water is defined in the Rules:

 

"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Manufactured ice is an obstruction. Dew and frost are not casual water. A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water.

 

Rule 25 tells us how we may deal with it.

[Shilgy]

I'm still looking for the answer to when a divot stops being a divot for which you'd be entitled to relief?

 

As for how to deal with it during non-tournament rounds, why not just have a deal with your opponents? It's not like it happens with great regularity, so just deal with the exceptions on your own.

Because agreement to waive a rule is breaking the rules. And if you break one, why not break them all? In reference to your question, it would need to be agreed by your group. Like casual water.

 

There is no need to collude on casual water. Casual water is defined in the Rules:

 

"Casual water" is any temporary accumulation of water on the course that is not in a water hazard and is visible before or after the player takes his stance. Snow and natural ice, other than frost, are either casual water or loose impediments, at the option of the player. Manufactured ice is an obstruction. Dew and frost are not casual water. A ball is in casual water when it lies in or any part of it touches the casual water.

 

Rule 25 tells us how we may deal with it.

Which brings up a bit of a quibble with the new rules.

 

Your reply was, of course, correct. In a couple months it will be "temporary water" and be covered by rule 16.

 

It occurrs to me the new phrasing was really unwarranted. As were the rule number changes.

 

But then I suppose with the changes in some rules and penalties a complete fresh start was needed.

[LeoLeo99]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

 

Do you play with the same people? I've only ever seen one person play it down besides me. Other than tournaments. And it's been a long time since I played in tournaments.

[Mikey5e]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

 

Do you play with the same people? I've only ever seen one person play it down besides me. Other than tournaments. And it's been a long time since I played in tournaments.

good points. I think some golfers live in their own small world thinking the rest of the golf world follows their lead.

[sdandrea]

10 pages of discussion about something that hardly ever happens................you'd think it was the dead of winter.

[Shilgy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

 

Do you play with the same people? I've only ever seen one person play it down besides me. Other than tournaments. And it's been a long time since I played in tournaments.

I play in a group of about 24 to days a week. Separate groups so 40+ different members. Both groups play by the rules of golf, down and putt then in if they count in the team score.

But yeah, we always play it down and I've never played with a group in 40 years+ of golf that thought it was ok to roll it if you didn't like the lie.

[Shilgy]

You know what I find sort of ironic is fact that 90% of the golfers who are playing the game take a free drop out of a divot in the fairway. The USGA needs to get with it and accommodate the people's desires instead of acting like arrogant blue noses?

Do you have a source for the 90% supposition? Or just making stuff up to support your wish? I have never ever seen a player roll it out of a divot. But then I only play 100+ rounds a year so it's a small sample size. :)

 

Do you play with the same people? I've only ever seen one person play it down besides me. Other than tournaments. And it's been a long time since I played in tournaments.

good points. I think some golfers live in their own small world thinking the rest of the golf world follows their lead.

The same could be said of your experience don't ya think? Seems like we both think the groups we play in are the norm.

Some people enjoy playing golf, by the rules, and all that entails.

Others enjoy going out on the course and having a good time.

 

There's room for both.

[Swisstrader98]

Super soft conditions here in NJ due to boatloads of rain these past few weeks. I have a buddy who's a very decent golfer but carves out the biggest divots any of us have ever seen. Literally 3-4 times the size of your "average" divot. Now with the rains and wet conditions, the divot this guy takes look like someone took a shovel to the fairway. He does his best between sand and fixing his divots but I'm very glad I play in his group vs after our group������

 

Sand ? IN NJ ?

 

I thought filling the divot with sand was a southern belt kind of thing. Bermuda grass and all.

 

I would think that far north it would be replace the divot or leave it alone. Although I guess if anybody is taking that big of a divot, if possible, they should try to collect some of the dirt that was dug up and put it back.

 

Not really sand, but rather a dirt, fertilizer, grass seed mix. We just call it sand cuz it sounds better than dirt?

[finleysg]

Playing down and in is way less complicated than knowing when it's ok to improve the lie or take a putt. As to what is more fun? To each his own.