Fairway divot rule

[sdandrea]

 

......... All the other responses contrary to this really don't understand the situation.

 

.....or we just happen to disagree with you? Opinions can't be wrong.....just different.

[Golfer4Life]

 

......... All the other responses contrary to this really don't understand the situation.

 

.....or we just happen to disagree with you? Opinions can't be wrong.....just different.

 

Easy now, you are using educated logic, lol....

[terrell75]

This is fun!

[rogolf]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

[Shilgy]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

This issue will be discussed again. And unfortunately with the dumbing down of the game ya just never know. They've made music semi legal to listen to.

What's next?

[sdandrea]

......... All the other responses contrary to this really don't understand the situation.

 

.....or we just happen to disagree with you? Opinions can't be wrong.....just different.

 

Easy now, you are using educated logic, lol....

 

What was I thinking? :taunt:

[sui generis]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

This issue will be discussed again. And unfortunately with the dumbing down of the game ya just never know. They've made music semi legal to listen to.

What's next?

 

Well, yes, I guess. Seems to me from my perch in the bleachers of the Rules world, that the ruling bodies have wearied of swimming against the tide. Still, no matter how we might see 2019, the player still has to hit the ball! :)

[jslane57]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

This issue will be discussed again. And unfortunately with the dumbing down of the game ya just never know. They've made music semi legal to listen to.

What's next?

 

Well, yes, I guess. Seems to me from my perch in the bleachers of the Rules world, that the ruling bodies have wearied of swimming against the tide. Still, no matter how we might see 2019, the player still has to hit the ball! :)

I like this. The player still has to hit the ball. Yes! And every announcer/player to discussing winning a major always states that there is luck involved. Be it a bounce, or a break, or a lie, there is always a break. I just saw a video today of DJ hitting his ball into the hole and having it bounce out and into the water. Bad break! That said, divots are not equal opportunity bad breaks. They are created by the player in front of you, as are rake marks and spike marks. On principle I hate the idea of relief from anything, divots, cart paths, and beautification areas included. The catch is this, the worst divots are right where one should be playing. They're not off the intended line. They're not part of the course as designed. They are temporary slices of GUR that are simply not visible from the position of the last shot. I wouldn't be surprised if the new drop procedures are a lead in to recommendations of preferred lies in one's own fairway, and if it ever happens, I'll say it's about time...

[Colin L]

Post #2

Oh, dear . . . here we go again.

 

And again, and again, and again and again ....... to Post #338. :stop:

[gloucesteroldspot]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

This issue will be discussed again. And unfortunately with the dumbing down of the game ya just never know. They've made music semi legal to listen to.

What's next?

 

Well, yes, I guess. Seems to me from my perch in the bleachers of the Rules world, that the ruling bodies have wearied of swimming against the tide. Still, no matter how we might see 2019, the player still has to hit the ball! :)

I like this. The player still has to hit the ball. Yes! And every announcer/player to discussing winning a major always states that there is luck involved. Be it a bounce, or a break, or a lie, there is always a break. I just saw a video today of DJ hitting his ball into the hole and having it bounce out and into the water. Bad break! That said, divots are not equal opportunity bad breaks. They are created by the player in front of you, as are rake marks and spike marks. On principle I hate the idea of relief from anything, divots, cart paths, and beautification areas included. The catch is this, the worst divots are right where one should be playing. They're not off the intended line. They're not part of the course as designed. They are temporary slices of GUR that are simply not visible from the position of the last shot. I wouldn't be surprised if the new drop procedures are a lead in to recommendations of preferred lies in one's own fairway, and if it ever happens, I'll say it's about time...

 

In this scenario, the course 'as designed' ceases to be so the moment the first player takes a divot and creates, in the words of the above, a small area of unmarked GUR (what's the rule on unmarked GUR anyway? play it as it lies I think...) To the group behind it matters not whether the player replaces the divot. Anyone who's tried to hit off the top of a recently-replaced divot will confirm, it's harder than hitting out of a hole. If more people play, more divots are created. Eventually you have a sea of divots, all in the same place because everyone plays the hole the same way; blast driver X yards and then hit a wedge to the green. Wedge shots create bigger divots than 7 irons. What happens when all the good bits of grass have been carved up? Where do you place your ball? Six inches may not be enough - you might have to go three feet to find a small patch of unspoilt turf.

 

You could lay up off the tee and play from an unusual part of the fairway, but that would require a bit of commonsense.

[BlackDiamondPar5]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

I think we keep it going until one of these divot relief advocates can define the process for determining when, during the lifecycle of a divot, it is no longer a divot from which relief is entitled? I still haven't heard a single poster say when that is, or how to police it, except for implementing "fluffing the ball" in the fairway anytime... Which is a horrible proposal.

[rogolf]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

I think we keep it going until one of these divot relief advocates can define the process for determining when, during the lifecycle of a divot, it is no longer a divot from which relief is entitled? I still haven't heard a single poster say when that is, or how to police it, except for implementing "fluffing the ball" in the fairway anytime... Which is a horrible proposal.

Regardless of what anyone comes up with to determine the "lifecycle of a divot", the ruling bodies won't be interested. That is not something they are struggling with.

[Mikey5e]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

[davep043]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

This really is what it comes down to. Complain all you like, its really unlikely that this rule (or lack of rule, I suppose) is likely to be changed any time soon. You might as well complain that the sun is too bright, for all the good it will do. Play by the rules, or don't, whichever you choose.

[jslane57]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

If you hit your ball far enough it will simply fly off the edge of the earth wont it? Yes, there are people who really don't like civil discussion about things like divots. And just because one discusses this rule in a negative light, doesn't mean they don't play by the rules. Such hard nosed folks are often disappointed in life, and one day relief from a divot may add to their disappointment...

[davep043]

This is the climate of the day isn't it. And not at all healthy for discussion. Is it possible for a person to play by the rules and discuss their annoyances? In a discussion it doesn't come down to play by the rules or don't. Ah, boogers...

After several hundred posts in this thread, and countless other threads. I'm afraid it does get down to this. Not a single proponent of the change has even attempted to write a workable definition of a "divot hole", and that is probably the most important thing to do if you want free relief from them, short of rolling the ball anywhere in the fairway. I don't believe LCP in a fairway will ever become a full-time rule, nor should it be. There are just the complaints that its not fair, and "they" should fix the rules. Bring a suggested rule to the table, there's a basis for discussion. Be part of the solution to your perceived problem, I'll start to take the complaints a little more seriously.

[BiggErn]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

I think we keep it going until one of these divot relief advocates can define the process for determining when, during the lifecycle of a divot, it is no longer a divot from which relief is entitled? I still haven't heard a single poster say when that is, or how to police it, except for implementing "fluffing the ball" in the fairway anytime... Which is a horrible proposal.

 

If the ball is in your fairway and resting on anything that’s not grass?

[jslane57]

This is the climate of the day isn't it. And not at all healthy for discussion. Is it possible for a person to play by the rules and discuss their annoyances? In a discussion it doesn't come down to play by the rules or don't. Ah, boogers...

After several hundred posts in this thread, and countless other threads. I'm afraid it does get down to this. Not a single proponent of the change has even attempted to write a workable definition of a "divot hole", and that is probably the most important thing to do if you want free relief from them, short of rolling the ball anywhere in the fairway. I don't believe LCP in a fairway will ever become a full-time rule, nor should it be. There are just the complaints that its not fair, and "they" should fix the rules. Bring a suggested rule to the table, there's a basis for discussion. Be part of the solution to your perceived problem, I'll start to take the complaints a little more seriously.

Why does anyone on this board need to define what a divot is? We all know what a divot is. No real rule changes will ever happen because of thread on WRX will they? So what is there to take seriously, enjoy the debate:)

[SNIPERBBB]

Some people know they are pissing into the wind. Some people need some help recognizing that they are.

 

"“You shouldn’t have humiliated him,” Tomer said.

Janson peered at him. “This whole world is full of ‘shouldn’t haves,’ Tomer. Without that humiliation, there was no chance he’d learn anything. With it, I figure he has about a five percent chance of realizing that he’s a big bag of Hutt droppings. Which is five percent more than he had a few minutes ago.” He shrugged. “Who’s hungry?”

 

Wedge grinned. “Let’s get out of here. I’m buying.”"

[rogolf]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

So who is interested in knowing the life cycle of a divot? Certainly not the ruling bodies. Their position has been clearly stated - no free relief. See below, copied from "Topics or Proposals Not Addressed.."

 

2. Preserving the Fundamental Challenge of the Game

• Play the ball as it lies – In its simplest form, golf is about playing the ball from tee to green by hitting it with a golf club, and not otherwise touching the ball. A fundamental challenge of the sport is to deal with whatever position your ball comes to rest in – whether good or bad. While there are some necessary exceptions (such as obstructions and other abnormal course conditions), the essential nature of golf means these must remain exceptions rather than the norm. Therefore, the new Rules do not provide relief without penalty from situations that some golfers complain about, such as when their ball comes to rest in a divot hole on a fairway or in footprints in a poorly raked bunker. In addition to being contrary to the fundamental principle of playing the ball as it lies, providing free relief in such circumstances would make the Rules harder to apply (for example, what is the difference between an irregularity of surface and an old divot hole?) and could slow down play when there are difficult questions about what is or isn’t a divot hole.
  

 

Go ahead an roll the ball out of the divot if you wish, complain about your "bad luck" all you want, but please don't expect the Rules of golf to authorize it.

[Golfer4Life]

This has been a great popcorn inducing thread, lol...

[Shilgy]

This "discussion" could go on forever; then be restarted in another thread and go on, and on, and on.

 

The ruling bodies have already decided the outcome - there is no free relief available under the Rules of golf.

 

If you don't like that outcome, play by your own rules, recognizing that your rules may or may not conform to the Rules of the game.

 

Mods -time to close this topic (until the next time)!

I think we keep it going until one of these divot relief advocates can define the process for determining when, during the lifecycle of a divot, it is no longer a divot from which relief is entitled? I still haven't heard a single poster say when that is, or how to police it, except for implementing "fluffing the ball" in the fairway anytime... Which is a horrible proposal.

 

If the ball is in your fairway and resting on anything that’s not grass?

So if the grass is thin is that area you get relief because the ball is touching dirt? Are you going to treat this like an area of casual water and move the ball to an are where you like the lie?

 

For those saying it is easy to define a divot-please do so. In the last thread on this subject we had a post with pictures if a new divot and various stages of the sod healing. The issue is at what point would it no longer be free relief?

 

It seems to me those that want free drops from every too long or too short blade of grass should just play Top Golf.

 

But then I am old-and grumpy-and like the game of golf just fine as is.

[Vindog]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

Well, that's because defining divot holes is unrelated to LCP, nuclear fission, and space travel.

[Mr. Bean]

At some point in the far future, the ROG may define a fairway as a specially prepared area like the green. If and when that happens (we will all be long dead), marking and repairing your lie in the fairway will be common place.

 

I certainly hope so...

[Mikey5e]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

Well, that's because defining divot holes is unrelated to LCP, nuclear fission, and space travel.

Ahh, no kidding? My point was simple, at least I thought it was simple, that if man has the intelligence to do the things I described he has the intelligence of knowing what a divot is and what isn't. Just like every other rule in the game of golf, it comes down to trusting your opponent to abide by those rules. It would be no different with a divot rule, if there was one ever, it takes trust in people to abide by the rules. My point in my above statement is that man has the intelligence to accomplish that easily, Imo.

[sdandrea]

This has been a great popcorn inducing thread, lol...

 

12 pages......................seriously? How long was the last thread on same topic?

[SNIPERBBB]

Problem is that is a judgement call. It might be obvious that a divot is a divot when its fresh, but after it starts to get filled in from natural detritus and as grass regrows...at what point does it not be a divot. Grass completely regrown, does it have to be completely level relative to the surrounding turf, etc?

[BiggErn]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

Well, that's because defining divot holes is unrelated to LCP, nuclear fission, and space travel.

 

So when playing LCP you should have to play a ball as it lies in a divot?

[Vindog]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

Well, that's because defining divot holes is unrelated to LCP, nuclear fission, and space travel.

 

So when playing LCP you should have to play a ball as it lies in a divot?

 

If that's what you got out of what I said right there then I have no idea how to help you.

 

 

But in the interest of playing along...This is just a guess, that if you are playing LCP then the divot hole is irrelevant. Why wouldn't it be? But very, very rarely am I ever playing LCP, so...

[BiggErn]

It's strange, they can accomplish the lift-clean-place rule without any problems, but humanity is not capable of knowing the life cycle of a divot. We can put a man on the moon, but can't figure out what a divot is. We can split atoms and create nuclear power, but can't determine what the life-cycle of a divot is. Really?

 

Well, that's because defining divot holes is unrelated to LCP, nuclear fission, and space travel.

 

So when playing LCP you should have to play a ball as it lies in a divot?

 

If that's what you got out of what I said right there then I have no idea how to help you.

 

 

But in the interest of playing along...This is just a guess, that if you are playing LCP then the divot hole is irrelevant. Why wouldn't it be? But very, very rarely am I ever playing LCP, so...

 

I’ll play along too. They enact LCP to keep from getting a bad lie or mud ball in the fairway. You said that LCP and relief from a divot aren’t related. Why wouldn’t they be when both would be for the same reason?