2019 TOTO Japan Classic Nov 08 - 10

[Newinup]

seems like it's Pressel who's on fire so far... birdie'd every hole in the first 5 and is now only 4 back, though i think she was too far back at the start... i think it's only the top 3 who has a shot... too many people in the top 10 for the lower top 10 (eg 6 strokes behind Ai after round 3) to win.... but hey, it's golf

[BadgerLin]

 

> @Newinup said:

> seems like it's Pressel who's on fire so far... birdie'd every hole in the first 5 and is now only 4 back, though i think she was too far back at the start... i think it's only the top 3 who has a shot... too many people in the top 10 for the lower top 10 (eg 6 strokes behind Ai after round 3) to win.... but hey, it's golf

 

I remember years ago Morgan was on a 59 watch at a tournament in Arizona. On one of the last couple holes she drove into the desert ?, and ended up a couple shots short. Hard to keep it going!

 

 

[NikeGolfer76]

I acknowledge and respect that others may disagree, but thanks to Argonne69 for keeping that “other” thread going for so long.

 

It definitely made it easier to follow this year’s Asian swing with so many of the KLPGA & JLPGA players making the TV coverage.

[iBanesto]

> @Argonne69 said:

> This week we get to see some of the stars from the JLPGA, including Jiyai Shin, Sun-Ju Ahn, Seon Woo Bae, Teresa Lu, Mamiko Higa, Yui Kawamote (2020 LPGA rookie), Ai Suzuki, and of course Hinako Shibuno for the 2nd week in a row.

>

> This is only a 3 round event, but at least we get live (or near real-time) coverage. The forecast looks decent with highs in the mid-60's, but mornings will be brisk with temps in the low to high 40's.

>

> Fairly weak field this week with over half of the Top 20 sitting out (Jin Young, Sung Hyun, Nelly, Brooke, Danielle, Inbee, Sei Young, Carlota, Jessica, Lizette, and Amy).

>

> My pick this week is Minjee. After the loss in the playoff on Sunday, she's got to be itching to pick up a 2nd trophy this season. Nasa should also play well at home. I expect Ai Suzuki and Jiyai to be in the mix as well.

>

 

Good call with Ai Suzuki.

[nal0781]

I almost feel like Ai has been the anti LPGA. Most amazing golfer not playing on the LPGA. I don’t think she will do it but her taking up membership would be super interesting.

[Argonne69]

Wow, that wasn't even close. Steady play by Ai adds a new wrinkle to the 2020 season. I doubt Ai will take LPGA membership.

 

Didn't they note that Sakura has played in 30+ tournaments this year? That's amazing.

 

Nice week for Hyo Joo and Minjee. Both couldn't get low enough to catch Ai.

[18majors]

> @Argonne69 said:

> Wow, that wasn't even close. Steady play by Ai adds a new wrinkle to the 2020 season. I doubt Ai will take LPGA membership.

>

> Didn't they note that Sakura has played in 30+ tournaments this year? That's amazing.

>

> Nice week for Hyo Joo and Minjee. Both couldn't get low enough to catch Ai.

 

In a way; this's a wake up call for LPGA Tour.

LPGA tour is dominated by Asian players and LPGA Asian tournaments have been won by local players. How'll LPGA distinguish itself from Asian Tours?

[Newinup]

> @18majors said:

> > @Argonne69 said:

> > Wow, that wasn't even close. Steady play by Ai adds a new wrinkle to the 2020 season. I doubt Ai will take LPGA membership.

> >

> > Didn't they note that Sakura has played in 30+ tournaments this year? That's amazing.

> >

> > Nice week for Hyo Joo and Minjee. Both couldn't get low enough to catch Ai.

>

> In a way; this's a wake up call for LPGA Tour.

> LPGA tour is dominated by Asian players and LPGA Asian tournaments have been won by local players. How'll LPGA distinguish itself from Asian Tours?

 

If both Hinako and Ai do pass up on the LPGA opportunity, then I can't be disappointed even if I would obviously prefer to see them both on it...

 

This is a tough one for the LPGA, where $ prize money and ranking points in themselves do not entice world golfers enough to join them as solid substitutes are available to provide a more valued "experience" for the golfers competing in them... (eg $ prize money competitive, tradeoff for ranking points vs travel/4 rounds vs 3 rounds, etc). Basic economics would indicate LPGA need to provide value over and beyond their competition, Whan and crew have a bit of a challenge ahead unlike the NBA which literally grew the game in Asia (and are dominated by American players that are still better - even if the ROW are clearly catching up)

 

Don't get me wrong, I think players competing in the LPGA are still the best (relative to the others) BUT the results are now showing a trend which need to be addressed otherwise it will start to lose its "shine"

[ChronicSlicer]

> @Newinup said:

 

> Don't get me wrong, I think players competing in the LPGA are still the best (relative to the others) BUT the results are now showing a trend which need to be addressed otherwise it will start to lose its "shine"

 

So, in other words if the non American golfers packed their bags and went home to play on home soil ( LET, JLPGA, KLPGA, ALPGA, etc..) the LPGA would be rather dismal and dominated by 5 or 6 players.

[onekday]

The PGA has satellite tours. You can make a good living playing satellite tours and be home more. But you are never going to be a world class player unless you play around the world, in major championships, against the best competition.

 

Mike

[Raving Shanker]

Impressive win by Ai Suzuki, but no real challengers - it has to be said.

 

As others have pointed out, the overall impression I get from the Asian swing is that the KLPGA and JLPGA are closer in standard to the LPGA than we might think. The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

 

Hyo Joo Kim played very well, and as is always noted, is underrated. She doesn't attract the attention of the power players, and her top-10's, over tournament victories shows clearly why this is the case. Ultimately fans want to see players who win, not grind out top-10's. On the last day she played the par-5's in -4 laying the ball up to position. Mental note to self: play conservatively for position on...oh why bother? I'm not going to do it.

 

I think the Aon Risk Reward rules have to be tweeked! Did Ciganda tactically withdraw? I think it is really sad for the game if she did. But a million smackers is a lot of money!

[Stooch]

> @"Raving Shanker" said:

> Impressive win by Ai Suzuki, but no real challengers - it has to be said.

>

> As others have pointed out, the overall impression I get from the Asian swing is that the KLPGA and JLPGA are closer in standard to the LPGA than we might think. The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

>

> Hyo Joo Kim played very well, and as is always noted, is underrated. She doesn't attract the attention of the power players, and her top-10's, over tournament victories shows clearly why this is the case. Ultimately fans want to see players who win, not grind out top-10's. On the last day she played the par-5's in -4 laying the ball up to position. Mental note to self: play conservatively for position on...oh why bother? I'm not going to do it.

>

> I think the Aon Risk Reward rules have to be tweeked! Did Ciganda tactically withdraw? I think it is really sad for the game if she did. But a million smackers is a lot of money!

 

Leeanne Pace withdrew in Canada when she was leading the Aon standings after making a double bogey on the scoring hole lol

[ChronicSlicer]

> @"Raving Shanker" said:

 

> The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

>

Considering their were only 11 Americans in the field and 2 of them managed a top 10, that doesn't seem to bad. Or does it?

[Stooch]

Great win by Ai, she was in total control and it gives her lots of flexibility for her Olympic goals. As it relates to the other tours, I think the top is the top and winners win but I also think the best are on the LPGA. I feel once you get past the top 10 or 15 on the LPGA most other players of various tours are sorta interchangeable with varying degrees of talent and ability to succeed, from year to year. I think the best on other tours can win on the LPGA they just might get pushed a little harder to get the win.

[ChronicSlicer]

> @Stooch said:

> > @"Raving Shanker" said:

> > Impressive win by Ai Suzuki, but no real challengers - it has to be said.

> >

> > As others have pointed out, the overall impression I get from the Asian swing is that the KLPGA and JLPGA are closer in standard to the LPGA than we might think. The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

> >

> > Hyo Joo Kim played very well, and as is always noted, is underrated. She doesn't attract the attention of the power players, and her top-10's, over tournament victories shows clearly why this is the case. Ultimately fans want to see players who win, not grind out top-10's. On the last day she played the par-5's in -4 laying the ball up to position. Mental note to self: play conservatively for position on...oh why bother? I'm not going to do it.

> >

> > I think the Aon Risk Reward rules have to be tweeked! Did Ciganda tactically withdraw? I think it is really sad for the game if she did. But a million smackers is a lot of money!

>

> Leeanne Pace withdrew in Canada when she was leading the Aon standings after making a double bogey on the scoring hole lol

 

I guess I could understand Lee-Anne dodging a bullet, but Carlota...I think she's too much of a competitor to be shady like that. But then again money makes people do funny stuff.

[18majors]

Ai's decision:

 

“It was my dream so I feel like I want to challenge,” Suzuki said. “But I can’t speak English. And I need to talk to my family because I need their support. I am not good in Moving around, travelling, and food. 70% I want to but considering all that, It’s 20%. First thing is that I want to be Money winner and want to play ANA inspiration.”

[https://lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic](https://www.lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic "https://lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic")

 

 

[Newinup]

> @18majors said:

> Ai's decision:

>

> “It was my dream so I feel like I want to challenge,” Suzuki said. “But I can’t speak English. And I need to talk to my family because I need their support. I am not good in Moving around, travelling, and food. 70% I want to but considering all that, It’s 20%. First thing is that I want to be Money winner and want to play ANA inspiration.”

> [https://lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic](https://www.lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic "https://lpga.com/news/2019-final-round-notes-toto-japan-classic")

>

>

 

I am not surprised at all... A lot of my Japanese friends who moved to North America when we studied here eventually moved back to Japan... Language is definitely a barrier but not insurmountable, as evidenced by Hideki, Nasa, Miyazato, etc. It is a huge adjustment though so definitely understandable...

[Argonne69]

I can understand Hinako's reluctance given that she's only a rookie. However, Ai has been around for a few years. Time to step up. I'm sure there are people who'd support her and help with the transition. These opportunities don't come around every day.

 

[Raving Shanker]

> @ChronicSlicer said:

> > @"Raving Shanker" said:

>

> > The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

> >

> Considering their were only 11 Americans in the field and 2 of them managed a top 10, that doesn't seem to bad. Or does it?

 

i was including participation! With a 2 week break to the CME I thought more would be interested.

[Titleist_PT23]

It will be interesting to see what Ai Suzuki does (and Shibuno, although I get the sense that her decision is already made unless she feels like Suzuki is going to play LPGA and thus she needs to do so too). I do not know Suzuki's situation enough and can only go by the most recent LPGA article. No doubt some players are wired to be the best in the world, or at least they want to compete against the best. In which case you go LPGA no question.

 

However, if you think you are going to be somewhere in the 10th - 20th ranked player on the "best" tour then it may not be worth it. Suzuki is making JPY 100MM+ (US$1 MM+ or so) on the course in Japan plus whatever endorsements. The prize money might not be any different and you have the lifestyle changes. Of course, the "worth it" part my be challenging yourself for a few years, and seeing how it goes (you don't know if you don't try).

 

One could probably argue look at all the Korean players that figure it out (not saying these two countries are the same, but there are some Asian cultural things that are similar, or at least more similar vs. the West). However, I think the definition of success in the Korean game is probably go play LPGA and win the USWO (if you are any good). And it seems like a lot of players, especially the top ones, truly believe there's no reason why they can't do it.

[Soloman1]

Not everyone thinks living and traveling throughout the US is great or wonderful. The Japanese tour(s) are comfortable lifestyles for players. They have more endorsements in Japan from Japan-only companies. They can function in everyday life, but that isn't easy for all non-English speakers trying to function in the US. Japanese have little appetite for unhealthy American food. It's a novelty for about 2 days, then they've had enough and feel like they've gained 2 kgs in two days. For some, the challenge of playing against the best in the world is enough to motivate them, but it isn't for everyone.

[Newinup]

> @Soloman1 said:

> Not everyone thinks living and traveling throughout the US is great or wonderful. The Japanese tour(s) are comfortable lifestyles for players. They have more endorsements in Japan from Japan-only companies. They can function in everyday life, but that isn't easy for all non-English speakers trying to function in the US. Japanese have little appetite for unhealthy American food. It's a novelty for about 2 days, then they've had enough and feel like they've gained 2 kgs in two days. For some, the challenge of playing against the best in the world is enough to motivate them, but it isn't for everyone.

 

Yes, now that I think about it more, and have relative(s) actually living in Japan at this time, I can actually surmise that a lot of Japanese (if not the majority, truth be told) would say the exact same thing... what more Japanese JLPGA players who are successful in their own tour - only found out about the endorsement angle through Shibuno research in all honesty, but that is definitely a factor especially in Japan and the importance of "face" in the Asian/Japanese culture (eg "I "owe" loyalty to my domestic sponsors who supported me through these years and I have signed an "X" # of yrs contract with them").

 

Per my experience, Japanese who are "geared" towards Western lifestyle for long periods (Eg living in US for over a yr, other than being an exchange student) are few and far between - maybe 1 out of 10, if at that... (I have small sample size in terms of my own friends there eg more than 10 but less than 100)... I'm kinda confused with the LPGA wording on Ai Suzuki's interview (lost in translation?) truth be told. Most of you guys here pretty much think she's staying in JLPGA (And I agree with that) but watching the Golf Channel coverage on the last day seem to indicate Ai has been eyeing the LPGA for quite some time (as to eyeing to play there or just following the tour from afar/news was not clear to me)...

[Stooch]

I think the Olympics in Japan is what changes everything, to give yourself the best chance, should you desire playing, might be biting the bullet and spending a season on the LPGA. But maybe being a bigger fish in a smaller pond is the best strategy.

[Soloman1]

The JLPGA is the second most lucrative women's tour.

 

 

LPGA Tour: $70 million

 

JLPGA Tour: $37 million

 

LET: $18 million

 

KLPGA: $18 million (Note that no foreigners are allowed on the KLPGA Tour. I think that is something the LPGA needs to address.)

 

Symetra Tour: $4 million

 

JLPGA "Step Up" development tour: $3.8 million

 

The JLPGA Tour has double the purse of the Korn Ferry Tour ($18 million)

 

 

 

Other than the US LPGA Tour, no other women's tour comes close to the JLPGA in total purse, yet there are no Americans playing on the JLPGA tour. There are no nationality restrictions on the JLPGA Qualifying Tournament process.

 

Why aren't there any Americans playing in Japan? I would say for the same reasons that a Japanese player would be reluctant to travel to the US. They don't speak the language, understand the culture or the food.

 

They can't even get to a golf course, check into a hotel, drive a car or even order a hamburger, for heaven's sake. LOL

 

[18majors]

Hinako Shibuno dropped to #15 while Ai Suzuki jumped to #19 on the new Rolex ranking.

Most likely both Hinako and Ai will be out of Top-15; they'll need to fight for the one Olympics spot.

Meanwhile, Yui Kawamoto #65, will try her luck at LPGA.

 

[Titleist_PT23]

> @18majors said:

> Hinako Shibuno dropped to #15 while Ai Suzuki jumped to #19 on the new Rolex ranking.

> Most likely both Hinako and Ai will be out of Top-15; they'll need to fight for the one Olympics spot.

> Meanwhile, Yui Kawamoto #65, will try her luck at LPGA.

I think it's 50/50 whether Shibuno can hold Top 15. But I don't think both of them can do it on JLPGA, so it doesn't really matter.

 

Shibuno has 1 JLPGA win that will roll-out of last 12 months period while Suzuki has 3 wins that will do the same (4 wins in 13-24 month stage will fall off). Unless both were to co-dominate the first half of 2020 JLPGA season, one of them likely has to watch on TV from home (unfortunately).

[Titleist_PT23]

> @ChronicSlicer said:

> > @Stooch said:

> > > @"Raving Shanker" said:

> > > Impressive win by Ai Suzuki, but no real challengers - it has to be said.

> > >

> > > As others have pointed out, the overall impression I get from the Asian swing is that the KLPGA and JLPGA are closer in standard to the LPGA than we might think. The American challenge in this tournament was pretty dismal.

> > >

> > > Hyo Joo Kim played very well, and as is always noted, is underrated. She doesn't attract the attention of the power players, and her top-10's, over tournament victories shows clearly why this is the case. Ultimately fans want to see players who win, not grind out top-10's. On the last day she played the par-5's in -4 laying the ball up to position. Mental note to self: play conservatively for position on...oh why bother? I'm not going to do it.

> > >

> > > I think the Aon Risk Reward rules have to be tweeked! Did Ciganda tactically withdraw? I think it is really sad for the game if she did. But a million smackers is a lot of money!

> >

> > Leeanne Pace withdrew in Canada when she was leading the Aon standings after making a double bogey on the scoring hole lol

>

> I guess I could understand Lee-Anne dodging a bullet, but Carlota...I think she's too much of a competitor to be shady like that. But then again money makes people do funny stuff.

The Risk-Reward of playing wasn't worth it!

 

I agree you shouldn't be able to WD after a bad hole. I guess good for Aon to put up $1 MM for each tour. However, the dollar amount is clearly distorting behavior on the LPGA tour. For some of the top guys on the PGA tour this is a rounding error.

[Newinup]

> @Soloman1 said:

> The JLPGA is the second most lucrative women's tour.

>

>

> LPGA Tour: $70 million

>

> JLPGA Tour: $37 million

>

> LET: $18 million

>

> KLPGA: $18 million (Note that no foreigners are allowed on the KLPGA Tour. I think that is something the LPGA needs to address.)

>

> Symetra Tour: $4 million

>

> JLPGA "Step Up" development tour: $3.8 million

>

> The JLPGA Tour has double the purse of the Korn Ferry Tour ($18 million)

>

>

>

> Other than the US LPGA Tour, no other women's tour comes close to the JLPGA in total purse, yet there are no Americans playing on the JLPGA tour. There are no nationality restrictions on the JLPGA Qualifying Tournament process.

>

> Why aren't there any Americans playing in Japan? I would say for the same reasons that a Japanese player would be reluctant to travel to the US. They don't speak the language, understand the culture or the food.

>

> They can't even get to a golf course, check into a hotel, drive a car or even order a hamburger, for heaven's sake. LOL

>

 

Very well said, I once went to a golf course and had a guide drive me to the resort in Hakone (only the two of us in the car, not a tour or through a tour bus where there's tons to watch jlpga golf like this year's shiseido anessa) - for pete's sake, first of all, it was right hand drive, secondly, I couldn't completely comprehend how to get there - yes we had GPS but it wasn't as straightforward as you'd think it was (and to think I can read basic Hiragana/Katakana and know Kanji) and once we got there - pretty much stuck there and at the mercy of the resort LOL (eg food, etc) :blush:

 

Unless Shibuno craters in the next few months, I still think she's the 2nd competitor representing Japan based on what you guys wrote (Eg Ai seems to have more tournaments to "defend" her JLPGA ranking points relative to Shibuno or am I wrong to read it this way)?

[ChronicSlicer]

 

 

It's pretty sad Ai won 6 times this year and just cracked the top 20 Rolex Rankings. Not a fan of how the system works. If Ai was on the LPGA where would she be sitting after her 6th win this year?

Basically if you ever wanna see your world ranking climb into single digits you have no choice but to play on the LPGA.

[musclefront]

> @Argonne69 said:

> I can understand Hinako's reluctance given that she's only a rookie. However, Ai has been around for a few years. Time to step up. I'm sure there are people who'd support her and help with the transition. These opportunities don't come around every day.

>

 

Why? The US isn’t the end all be all for everyone and I’m sure she has a pretty fulfilling life in Japan. I’ve been there a number of times (wife is Japanese) and it’s awesome there! :)