My Road to Improvement - swing video 3/15/24

[TheDeanAbides]

I don’t want to be a hard a** because I appreciate that golf is hard, but there’s no excuse for setting up anywhere other that aimed at the target. I thought we’d overcome this barrier last summer and you were now lining up behind the ball and using an intermediary point to align to? 
 

If you’ve gone backwards that’s the first step to sorting this out. I don’t care if it feels really uncomfortable or you have resistance, there’s no point working on your swing to hit it straight into the crap! 

[bortass]

7 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I don’t want to be a hard a** because I appreciate that golf is hard, but there’s no excuse for setting up anywhere other that aimed at the target. I thought we’d overcome this barrier last summer and you were now lining up behind the ball and using an intermediary point to align to? 
 

If you’ve gone backwards that’s the first step to sorting this out. I don’t care if it feels really uncomfortable or you have resistance, there’s no point working on your swing to hit it straight into the crap! 

No worries on being a hard a**. It didn’t ruffle my feathers.

 

I am following a routine that starts behind the ball. Pick my target align my club face to it and get my body into position.

What happens once in a while is my body is still open. I feel like I’m aligned to my target but I’m not. I don’t realize it until I’m facing left of my target line at the end of my swing and the ball is starting left and it’s almost always fairly straight with a slight draw. I don’t get big curves when it happens. 
 

It’s very frustrating and made worse by I can’t tell when I’m doing it. Nothing feels off.

 

Maybe I need to spring for a lesson to have someone actually watching and getting me into the correct position. 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

No worries on being a hard a**. It didn’t ruffle my feathers.

 

I am following a routine that starts behind the ball. Pick my target align my club face to it and get my body into position.

What happens once in a while is my body is still open. I feel like I’m aligned to my target but I’m not. I don’t realize it until I’m facing left of my target line at the end of my swing and the ball is starting left and it’s almost always fairly straight with a slight draw. I don’t get big curves when it happens. 
 

It’s very frustrating and made worse by I can’t tell when I’m doing it. Nothing feels off.

 

Maybe I need to spring for a lesson to have someone actually watching and getting me into the correct position. 

 

Then you are a prime candidate for this. I know I promised to make a video. I’ll do it when I’m well enough.

 

 

[bortass]

Got some putting practice in today. I tried the Putting Tutor for the first time. I kept it simple, the same putt maybe 5 feet. I had the marbles at the widest setting and got through 5 putts no problem. I then moved it to the middle setting and had 9/10 putts where the marbles didn't move. I think it was my 8th putt that I knocked the marbles off. One drawback i see to this type of putting is my back got sore and still is as I type this. It's why I'm not a fan of putting practice, it bothers my lower back when I putt repeatedly.

 

At some point I'll start to use the Tutor on random putts to start working on my aim. I didn't do that today but I was more curious about how well I putt down my line. It's not perfect but I think it was pretty decent.

 

I then tried the 30 for 30 that I saw @betarhoalphadeltamention in his thread. It's from something @bluedot posted in a leaving putts short thread(copied below for reference)

  

On 5/2/2022 at 11:03 AM, bluedot said:

30 For 30 game, for both practice and warmup:

 

On the practice green, aiming at a different hole each time, hit a 30' or so putt (average distance for ams on first putt on a GIR). 

   Give yourself a point if you leave the first putt short of the hole, but two putt successfully

   Give yourself two points if you get the first putt past the hole AND two putt

   Give yourself three points if you make the first putt

   You lose three points if you three putt

   The goal is to get 30 points before you hit 30 first putts. 

 

Great drill for getting the speed of the greens each day, for getting the ball to the hole, and for working on short second putts with at least a little bit of pressure.  Obviously, if you are using this as a warmup before a round, you can cut it to 20 For 20 or whatever fits.

 

And, as others have mentioned, if you haven't already, take a look at the stats for Tour pros making putts from various distances.  It might make you feel a little better about your percentages; you just aren't going to make many 15' putts, period.  Believe me, I understand the pain of leaving a putt short, but there is a balance here.

 

 

Well, I didn't have a lot of time and only made it through 15 rounds. I was at +5 at the end of it. I thought this was going to be pretty straight forward when I was sitting at +11 after 6 rounds. Then I tried a putt up a tier and didn't make it up it, so had a 20 footer for my second putt and missed... I also started to miss a few inside 3 feet, so instead of an easy +2 points, it was -3. The lowest I got was +2 but still...

 

I was getting the ball to the hole on the majority of my putts, so that was good. I didn't hole any but I'm not expecting to from 30ish feet. I liked 30 for 30 and will keep using it. It showed I have some issues putting up a tier, along with not being focused and missing a few short ones. I was making most of the 5-6 footers I left myself which was nice. That -3 penalty though, it's tough to offset it.

 

Also have a short lesson scheduled for next week. We're going to look at my setup and aim. It'll be worth it to get a pair of eyes on what I actually do and getting me where I should be.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Yeah, I've been enjoying 30 for 30 because I find putting practice boring. I don't have back problems, but spending TOO much time doing it can lead to soreness, and the 30 for 30 has a lot of walking to break up the monotony which I think also helps keep the lower back from getting stuck in that position and getting stiff. 

 

I also really like it because you don't hit, say, 3 putts from 30 feet and each one is getting better than the last because you've had a chance to see a read on both the speed and the break on the first and then second attempt. You have to take every 30ish foot first putt, read it for break and speed, and try to lag it. The worse you do, the more you give yourself a bad leave and the pressure is ON to avoid that -3 score.

 

So thanks to @bluedot for the game!

[TheDeanAbides]

I used to hate putting practice too, which is why I always putt with one ball and try to make it as much like playing as possible.

[bortass]

5 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I used to hate putting practice too, which is why I always putt with one ball and try to make it as much like playing as possible.

I like putting practice, I just get a sore lower back which is very likely more a sign I'm out of shape and have a weak core than anything else. Avoiding raking balls for a set putt helps.  I'm sure if I had ever tried a long putter and putted upright, it'd be a non-issue, lol. It's the only aspect of golf that really bugs me though, so I can't complain. 

 

Making it realistic or a game really helps though. I used to play an up and down game where I'd scatter 3 balls in the rough around a green, pick a hole and see how many strokes it took to chip on and hole out. Score should be 6 if you get up and down with all three balls but I think 8 is the best I ever did, lol. That practice green was built into the side of a hill, so there was a decent slope to deal with, but still I sucked at it.

[bortass]

I took the afternoon off and played a quick 18 from the forward tees. It was 90-92 degrees out and I never caught up with anyone. It only took 2 hours and 25 minutes to play and I was not rushing at all. No warm up and it was a good yet frustrating round. It's 5484 yards on the card. Rating is 67.3 with a slope of 121, par 72, also 4 strokes easier as far as CH goes than the white tees.

 

I shot a 44/47 91... The frustration was my putting, there were 41 of them... I missed 7 putts inside 4 feet.... The only putt I made outside of 2 feet was an 8 footer. I did have two penalties. One was when I picked the ball clean from a fairway bunker with a partial and launched it over 100 yards into a hazard behind the green. The other was my crap aim again and I sent a ball into the left trees. I can't wait for my lesson Tuesday to go over my setup and aim. I am pretty sure i am setting up open even though I feel like I'm square. It'll be good to get a pair of eyes to look at it. I also have a feeling I'll be talking to him about my lousy short putting. I foresee a follow up lesson in my future to just try to sort that out...

 

Outside of that I played well. I was getting myself into position to score and just couldn't. I got off the tee pretty good and my approach game was much better than normal. I feel pretty confident with my game unless it's a short putt between 2-4 feet, lol. Curious what will happen in my round tomorrow. Have a good one!

 

birdies: 0

pars: 7

bogeys: 5

double bogeys: 4

triple+: 2

 

Some stats:

Avg drive: 205 yards, three 5i and a 7i tee shot included in this.

Longest drive: 248 yards

Fairways: 8/14

GIR: 8/18

Avg Approach: 114 yards

Up & down: 2/9

Putts: 41

 

Strokes gained compared to a 12 HCP. 

Overall: -8.4 strokes

driving: -1.3, Arccos is having as brain fart and saying I have 1 penalty off the tee. I went through the entire round and no tee shots are marked with one...

Approach: -0.8, this is a massive improvement compared to where i was months ago. Approach has always been the worst part of my game.

Short game: +2.4, I had a few execution issues but did pretty good here.

Putting: -8.6,  6.4 of this was inside 10 feet...

[TheDeanAbides]

Why don’t you ever warm up?

[berndgeurts]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

Why don’t you ever warm up?

Because he's cold as ice😎

[TheDeanAbides]

28 minutes ago, berndgeurts said:

Because he's cold as ice😎

And he’s willing to sacrifice his score? 😆

[bortass]

On 6/18/2022 at 2:36 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

Why don’t you ever warm up?

Time. When I go out for my practice rounds aka anything but the standing Saturday 18 it’s not planned in advance. I see a possible window I can go and play that day and if things work out I go play. Sometimes I decide 30 minutes before the possible tee time. 
 

I do warm up when I play on Saturdays. Hit pitches, partial wedges, and usually a few full irons. Then I go to the practice green and hit some putts to try to get a feel for the speed that day.

[TheDeanAbides]

22 minutes ago, bortass said:

Time. When I go out for my practice rounds aka anything but the standing Saturday 18 it’s not planned in advance. I see a possible window I can go and play that day and if things work out I go play. Sometimes I decide 30 minutes before the possible tee time. 
 

I do warm up when I play on Saturdays. Hit pitches, partial wedges, and usually a few full irons. Then I go to the practice green and hit some putts to try to get a feel for the speed that day.

Fair. 🙂

[TheDeanAbides]

BTW, I nearly made that video for the setup process the other day. It’s getting closer. 😆

[bortass]

23 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

BTW, I nearly made that video for the setup process the other day. It’s getting closer. 😆

Glad you're feeling better!

 

Well, if Friday's bonus round was frustrating, Saturday's seemed even worse. I did warm up beforehand too 😜.

 

Weather was pretty good. Started in the high 80s and was low 90s when we finished. It wasn't that humid once all the dew went away. It felt great in the shade with a breeze. No significant wind but there was some.

  

 

1 – par 4, 404 yards, straight, #1 HCP, bunker front right. Great drive 245 yards into the left side of the fairway. I have a 6i into the green and hit a very low push into the front bunker. I get out in one and am 12 feet short of the hole. I leave my par putt 3 feet short and it's a 3 putt double bogey, 6.

 

2 – par 3, 142 yards, #17 HCP, bunkers short left and right, and long left. It's 130ish to center and not a forward flag, so I hit my 8i. Well I hit that one pure. A high draw that drops out of the sky and in the back rough. The back of this green is elevated some my ball takes the downslope to roll even further away from the green 155 yard 8i on level ground. I figure the carry was 140-145 yards instead of the 'normal' 130. It's a blind chip to a green that's sloping away from me. I'm not going to get close in all likelyhood. I make good contact with my chip and it ends up rolling into the front fringe. I chip with my putter from there to 4 feet and two putt, double bogey 5.

 

I'm starting to make comments on my putting

 

3 – par 5, 458 yards, dogleg right, #9 HCP, couple of fairway bunkers on the left at the corner. Very solid drive, cutting the corner, 239 yards into the fairway near the center. I hit a very solid push with my 4w, 208 yards, and I'm in the rough between the two bunkers on the right. It's a middle hole position and I can chip with my putter for a GIR! Which I do , a 12 yard chip that I left 9 feet short. I have plenty of time to look over my birdie putt as the other guys are hitting onto the green. I miss high and 4 feet long. It's a three putt bogey, 6.

 

My putting is trash and it's getting to me and remains that way the entire round.

 

4 – par 4, 293 yards, straight, #15 HCP, water left and OoB right. Right side has a slope. There's a fairway bunker on the right. Decent drive, low and left, 224 yards into the left side of the fairway. I hit a partial SW 89 yards to the very back of the green. I'm 26 feet past the hole and my first putt misses low. I'm almost a little past pin high but 4 feet out. I somehow make the par putt, 4.

 

5- par 5, 501 yards, dogleg right, #5 HCP, hazard down the left side. There's a slope on the right side which makes the fairway narrow in the landing spot. A stream runs down the right side from the corner to near the green. Solid drive but a bit more left than I want, 230 yards into the left rough. I think about my shot. Ball is sitting down and I hit 4w. The face stays wide open and it's a push fade into the right hazard that's at the corner. I drop 61 yards closer and right at the corner. I punch a 5i, 161 yards, to get into position to reach the green. I hit a partial SW 81 yards into the back rough by the hole. I chip with my putter to 3 feet and two putt for a triple bogey, 8.

 

The 4w from the rough was a mistake. I was trying to decide between a 4w and a punched 5i. The iron may have been a better option. Of course my bad putting was in play too.

 

6 – par 4, 367 yards, slight dogleg left, #7 HCP. Medium width landing area with a bunker on the left. Houses are on the right and there's a sharp slope into the left trees if you end up too far into the left rough. I hit a nice drive, 236 yards, into the center of the fairway. I'm inside 150 to center and hit my 7i. It's a nice looking shot that goes 143 yards and ends up on the green, near the back. I'm 31 feet above the hole and things turn into a disaster. Putt 1 is 7 feet short; #2 is 3 feet long; #3 misses;#4 drops for a double bogey, 6.

 

Well, if I had any confidence in my putting, it's now gone. Do I have the yips? LOL.

 

7 – par 4, 351 yards, slight dogleg right, #11 HCP, elevated tee shot to a wide open fairway that slopes down right to left all the way to about the 100 yard marker. Bunkers on the left marking the corner and a slope on the right. I hit a real solid drive, 263 yards, into the fairway on the left. I love driving on this hole since it's an elevated tee shot. It's around 80 yards to the hole on the right side. I hit a partial SW and it goes 96 yards into the back left bunker. I don't recall if I hit it a bit thin or maybe I nuked it. I hit my bunker shot off the hard packed dirt to 2 feet and make the par putt, 4.

 

8 – par 3, 160 yards, elevated tee shot, #13 HCP, bunker on the right side of the green. Slope to the right of this hole that is weed whacked. So it's long stuff and wild. Balls can get lost here. Flag is back and the tees are a bit further back than normal. I think a fair bit about what to hit and settle on my 7i. It's a great high draw, over the flag, 173 yards, to the back of the green. I'm 9 feet past the hole and my ball is a couple feet from the pitch mark. I miss the birdie putt but it's only a foot for par and I make that one, lol. 3.

 

9 – par 4, 357 yards, straight hole, #3 HCP, water on the left as you approach the green. The pond fronts this green. I hit another solid drive, a bit left, 239 yards, and into the left side of the fairway. It's a front right hole. I have been long with my approaches on this hole and I don't want to do that since it tends to be bad. It's 110 yards roughly to the hole, so my partial PW is likely not going to reach the green, so I take my 9i and I hit more of a ¾ shot. Contact is great and it's a high draw, 120 yards, into the back rough, lol..... I chip with my putter, down the tier, and my read is off a bit so I miss low and have a 4 footer for par... Crap.... I drain it though! Par, 4.

 

10 – par 4, 342 yards, dogleg left, #10 HCP hole. Elevated tee shot to a lower fairway. Green is elevated with a bunker front right. I tee off with my 5i and hit a high shot, 190 yards, down the right side. I'm in the fairway and about 150 from center. I decide to go for it with my 6i. I hit a bit of a low shot but it's on, 155 yards. I'm 21 feet past the hole and putting down a tier. I FUBAR my read and the ball stops 6 feet to the right, aka low side of the hole. It's a 3 putt bogey, 5.

 

11 – par 4, 329 yards, 90* dogleg left, #12 HCP. Fairway eventually slopes down to a stream short of the green, forced carry. Great drive with my 7w, 204 yards, into the fairway near the crest of the slope leading to the stream. I'm not close enough for a partial PW and a full 9i will be too much. I decide to use my partial wedge shot with my 9i and I hit it heavy. The ball lands in the rocky bank on the far side of the stream and takes a big bounce to the left and into the stream... I drop and chunk my pitch into the stream... I recover that ball and take an X. I used 8 as my likely score.

 

12 – par 4, 315 yards, 90* dogleg left, #14 HCP, green is elevated. Narrow tee shot that opens as you reach the corner. Drive is a mishit low push fade, 208 yards, under the trees on the right side. I have no good shot and punch a 7i, power chip, 70 yards onto a slope on the left which is all rough. Bad aim... Ball below my feet and I hit my SW too hard and it's in the back bunker. I end up double hitting my bunker shot. The ball pops up and my club head catches it again when it's 2 feet off the ground... Well, that's a nice penalty. The ball goes through the green and I chip with my putter. I left it well short and just picked up, X and I card a 7 since that's NDB for me.

 

Well, I'm kind of reeling out there now. The bad putting set the tone on the front and now I'm messing up other aspects and just took a couple Xs. So much for playing solid on the back and having a decent score...

 

13 – par 3, 123 yards, #18 HCP, green is elevated with bunkers short right and left and long left. Tiered green as well. Hole is back and I hit a great looking 8i over the flag, 135 yards, and 15 feet past the hole. I barely miss the birdie putt and have 1 foot for par, which I make, 3.

 

14 – par 5, 543, straight hole, #4 HCP. Elevated teeshot to wide open fairway. Fairway slopes down left to right, water on the right closer to the green and fronting the entire green. I hit a high drive down the right side, 247 yards, into the right rough. I'm also on a slope with the ball above my feet, so I just punch a low 5i about 130 yards nto the fairway on the left. I have 150ish in and decide to hit my 6i. I thin it and it goes into the pond. I drop and pitch to 20 feet. I get the first putt to a foot, so I can actually make the next one, double bogey, 7.

 

15 – par 4, 264 yards, straight, #16 HCP. Elevated tee shot to a fairway that is always soft abd cart path only year round. Fairway bunkers on left side in line with the green. Bunker surround this green except for the left side. It's a decent draw at the green with my driver. 229 yards and i'm in the rough short of the large greenside bunker on the left. I hit a 30 yard pitch over the bunker and 18 feet past the hole and a bit to the right. I get the birdie putt to a foot, so I come away with a par, 4.

 

16 – par 3, 147 yards, #8 HCP. Elevated green with a forced stream carry. Bunkers short right and long left and middle. Tiered green with a strong back left to front right slope. The hole is on the left and long is bad. Wind in our face and I hit my 8i. It's a very high draw that the wind kills but I land on the front of the green, 132 yards. I'm 15 feet below the hole and putting up a tier. I don't play the break correctly and I end up pin high, 3 feet out on the low side.... Yup, 3 feet... So it takes me two more putts to get a bogey, 4.

 

17 – par 4, 363 yards, dogleg left, #6 HCP. Fairly open fairway with bunkers on the right at the corner. Green has a tier and heavily slopes left to right, can putt off this green... Bunkers short of the green as well. It's a very solid draw into the fairway with my driver, 231 yards. I'm to the left side, so I shortened the hole somewhat. It's a middle flag and about 100 yards or so. I aim left of the hole to allow the slope to carry the ball down to it. I go with a partial PW and I pull it and it lands in the front left bunker. Somehow it popped out and I'm in the rough above the hole. I chip with my putter to 2 feet and the par putt misses.. Yes, a two putt from 2 feet for a bogey, 5.

 

18 – par 5, 504 yards, straightish, #2 HCP. There is a stream carry on either the second or third shot. There is also a pond fronting the green... It's another solid drive, high though, that's 226 into the fairway on the left. I have the normal 4w across the stream and top it 96 yards but it stops short. The back of the green is in 4w range now and i'm going across the stream and pond. I go for it! I top it again into the stream. I'm done at this point. I drop a ball on the far side and almost hit it into the pond when it rolls back some short of the green, so I just pick up and card an 8.

 

For GHIN it's a 46/50 96. I do manage to drop my index by another 0.2 though, so that's nice. I'm now a 21.7 and my low since returning is 21.6.

 

My putting sucks. IF I two putt on the 3 holes I took Xs on, I have 40 putts. I missed 7 putts in the 2 -4 foot range. I don't even want to think about the double bogey on #6 when I had a GIR and 4 putted...

 

My approach game was pretty good on the front, excluding the 4w mistake from the rough on #5. It got dodgy on the back 9 and was the cause of two of my Xs on the back. Still i didn't feel bad about my approach game until I saw the SG stats from Arccos on it. Makes sense though since I had 3 penalties on approaches.

 

Short game was okay. It didn't hurt me too badly even with the double hit on #12.

 

Driving was great except for on #12. I feel like it was one of the best days ever for me off the tee on par 4s and 5s. I was in great shape on almost every hole and the distance was there too.

 

Right now I am starting to be in a weird place. Standing on the tee box I know I can par any hole on the course and I feel good about my prospects. I feel the same way with my approach shots as well because I have been doing much better with them. There is no worry about mishits. I feel great when I'm pitching the ball as well and while my chipping isn't great, I don't dread them. Once I'm on the green, I feel fine until I have the 3-4 foot putt. I have no confidence when I now have a short putt. if I don't lag it inside 2 feet, I'm screwed. I used to feel decent about my putting. Sure I was never great but I averaged around a two putt per hole. I'm regressing and the confidence loss is not good.

 

I have a lesson tomorrow which is for my setup. I didn't have as many aim issues this round but I don't think I'm lined up square when I think I am all the time. I will also ask him about setting up a short lesson on putting. Get some eyes looking at what I'm doing wrong with this.

 

birdies: 0

pars: 6

bogeys: 4

double bogeys: 3

triple+: 5(includes all 3 Xs)

 

Some stats:

Avg drive: 229 yards, 1 7w and 1 5i shot in this.

Longest drive: 263 yards

Fairways: 10/14

GIR: 8/18

Avg Approach: 108 yards

Up & down: 2/10

Putts: 40*

 

Strokes gained compared to a 12 HCP. 

Overall: -13.2 strokes

driving: +1.4

Approach: -6.2

Short game: -0.4,

Putting: -8.0,  

[SNIPERBBB]

Why are you missing putts?

 

What I see when people struggle start to lose confidence, short and push putts become the norm as you start trying to putt defensively. It gets worse on short putts.  I've learned that when putting gets a bit rough, its better to start getting more aggressive with the putts. if I'm goinng to miss it, I'd rather get give it a chance. The defensive putting, your just hoping you dont leave a 3ft combacker and making the putt isnt even in your mind.

[bortass]

23 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Why are you missing putts?

 

What I see when people struggle start to lose confidence, short and push putts become the norm as you start trying to putt defensively. It gets worse on short putts.  I've learned that when putting gets a bit rough, its better to start getting more aggressive with the putts. if I'm goinng to miss it, I'd rather get give it a chance. The defensive putting, your just hoping you dont leave a 3ft combacker and making the putt isnt even in your mind.

Million dollar question. 

 

The short putts, 3 - 4 feet, that I miss are two flavors. Miss high and 1 - 2 feet long or miss low and 1-2 feet past the hole. I'm getting the ball there but my speed and line are not in alignment to get it to drop.  It's very annoying because I figure I should be able to at least make half of my putts in this range. I know some people can make all of them but 50/50 shouldn't be outlandish.

 

The two footers I miss are always on the low side and it's usually a green where there's a tier right behind the hole or it's got a decent cant to it, so the ball may just keep rolling.

 

The longer putts are a wider range of things. A bad read on the break and I'm 3 - 4 feet out on the low side. I misjudge the speed and leave it 3+ feet short and sometimes 3+ feet long. If it's a good putt and I miss, I'm within a couple feet of the hole in any direction. Sometimes I leave it just short i.e. less than a foot but that's not a prevailing trend.

 

There are a couple constants I'll mention just to remove them from the mix. I've been using the same putter since 2004 , it's an Odyssey White Hot two-ball putter from when those were all the rage. There was a brief period i tried another putter, which i still have, but that was pre 2010.  I always play with the same ball, Top Flite Gamers.

 

Putting has been my #3 weakness according to Arccos for most of the life of this thread. My driving has improved enough to make my approach game and putting my top 2 weaknesses. The thing with the putting is I'm getting worse. My last two 18 hole rounds are off the charts bad. They are included in the numbers below.

 

Prior 10 Round date	01/11/21	01/03/22	05/01/22	06/20/22
Putting SG compared to 12 HCP	-3.9	-4.2	-3.3	-4.5
First putt 0-10 feet SG:	-2.1	-2.3	-2.1	-3.3
First putt 10-25 feet SG:	-1.1	-1.3	-0.5	-0.6
First putt 25-50 feet SG:	-0.8	-0.5	-0.7	-0.5
First putt 50+ feet SG:	0.1	-0.1	-0.1	0
One putts:	15.0%	17.7%	21.7%	19.4%
Two putts:	65.0%	55.5%	52.8%	57.7%
Three+:	20.0%	26.1%	22.2%	21.1%
Putts per hole:	2	2.1	1.9	2
Putts per GIR:	2.3	2.2	2.2	2.4

 

So the numbers are obvious that I suck inside 10 feet. I am getting more GIRS and average 24 feet from the hole on  a GIR. Short game I average 11 feet if I'm chipping inside 25 yards and 37 feet if it's 25-50 yards but I think this includes when I miss the green from this range, which is high at 57%. maybe I'm just leaving myself more chances to leave a putt in my 'dead zone' than I did before. I dunno. It's seemingly getting worse and the rest oif my game is good enough that it's got to be looked at now.

[SNIPERBBB]

Used to like the 2-ball putters but after a while it seems like I start looking cross-eyed at the thing and I start loosing confidence of where I was aiming. Might of been a lie angle thing because since then, I've really come to love flatter lie angles on my putter so I bend the thing pretty flat so it cant get toed up on me. Cant remember if that was a hot faced putter or not. Hot faces and quick greens probably isnt the best combination. I've went to a hot faced putter for our slow greens here and thats been a big help lately. Of course, once the greens get to where they are quick again, Ill start going back to the deader putters.

[betarhoalphadelta]

2 hours ago, bortass said:

 

The short putts, 3 - 4 feet, that I miss are two flavors. Miss high and 1 - 2 feet long or miss low and 1-2 feet past the hole. I'm getting the ball there but my speed and line are not in alignment to get it to drop.  It's very annoying because I figure I should be able to at least make half of my putts in this range. I know some people can make all of them but 50/50 shouldn't be outlandish.

 

The two footers I miss are always on the low side and it's usually a green where there's a tier right behind the hole or it's got a decent cant to it, so the ball may just keep rolling.

 

The longer putts are a wider range of things. A bad read on the break and I'm 3 - 4 feet out on the low side. I misjudge the speed and leave it 3+ feet short and sometimes 3+ feet long. If it's a good putt and I miss, I'm within a couple feet of the hole in any direction. Sometimes I leave it just short i.e. less than a foot but that's not a prevailing trend.

 

 

Okay, so you lag putts badly and then you don't make the short(ish) putts you leave. That narrows it down! 😉 

 

For the 3-4 footers, sounds like your speed is fine but line is wrong. Do you think this is a read issue or are you not starting the ball on the intended line? 

 

How do you practice lag putting? Are you consistently high/low or consistently long/short? Consistently being, say, at least 60%+ for one or the other?

[TheDeanAbides]

14 hours ago, bortass said:

Million dollar question. 

 

The short putts, 3 - 4 feet, that I miss are two flavors. Miss high and 1 - 2 feet long or miss low and 1-2 feet past the hole. I'm getting the ball there but my speed and line are not in alignment to get it to drop.  It's very annoying because I figure I should be able to at least make half of my putts in this range. I know some people can make all of them but 50/50 shouldn't be outlandish.

 

The two footers I miss are always on the low side and it's usually a green where there's a tier right behind the hole or it's got a decent cant to it, so the ball may just keep rolling.

 

The longer putts are a wider range of things. A bad read on the break and I'm 3 - 4 feet out on the low side. I misjudge the speed and leave it 3+ feet short and sometimes 3+ feet long. If it's a good putt and I miss, I'm within a couple feet of the hole in any direction. Sometimes I leave it just short i.e. less than a foot but that's not a prevailing trend.

 

There are a couple constants I'll mention just to remove them from the mix. I've been using the same putter since 2004 , it's an Odyssey White Hot two-ball putter from when those were all the rage. There was a brief period i tried another putter, which i still have, but that was pre 2010.  I always play with the same ball, Top Flite Gamers.

 

Putting has been my #3 weakness according to Arccos for most of the life of this thread. My driving has improved enough to make my approach game and putting my top 2 weaknesses. The thing with the putting is I'm getting worse. My last two 18 hole rounds are off the charts bad. They are included in the numbers below.

 

Prior 10 Round date	01/11/21	01/03/22	05/01/22	06/20/22
Putting SG compared to 12 HCP	-3.9	-4.2	-3.3	-4.5
First putt 0-10 feet SG:	-2.1	-2.3	-2.1	-3.3
First putt 10-25 feet SG:	-1.1	-1.3	-0.5	-0.6
First putt 25-50 feet SG:	-0.8	-0.5	-0.7	-0.5
First putt 50+ feet SG:	0.1	-0.1	-0.1	0
One putts:	15.0%	17.7%	21.7%	19.4%
Two putts:	65.0%	55.5%	52.8%	57.7%
Three+:	20.0%	26.1%	22.2%	21.1%
Putts per hole:	2	2.1	1.9	2
Putts per GIR:	2.3	2.2	2.2	2.4

 

So the numbers are obvious that I suck inside 10 feet. I am getting more GIRS and average 24 feet from the hole on  a GIR. Short game I average 11 feet if I'm chipping inside 25 yards and 37 feet if it's 25-50 yards but I think this includes when I miss the green from this range, which is high at 57%. maybe I'm just leaving myself more chances to leave a putt in my 'dead zone' than I did before. I dunno. It's seemingly getting worse and the rest oif my game is good enough that it's got to be looked at now.

You need to invest in Use the Bounce 2.0 and learn voodoo putting. It’ll change your life forever.

 

i also guarantee that you’re moving your hips when you putt. Get someone to hold them while you make some putts to confirm. Still hips is the #1 putting fundamental.

[bortass]

16 hours ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Okay, so you lag putts badly and then you don't make the short(ish) putts you leave. That narrows it down! 😉 

 

For the 3-4 footers, sounds like your speed is fine but line is wrong. Do you think this is a read issue or are you not starting the ball on the intended line? 

 

How do you practice lag putting? Are you consistently high/low or consistently long/short? Consistently being, say, at least 60%+ for one or the other?

Yeah, it's hard to narrow down the misses. What I find is I tend to leave longer ones, 20+ feet short but there are exceptions like when it's downslope and things are running faster or the times I give it a good whack and watch it roll 3-4 feet long. Putts inside 6 feet mostly miss long but there are exceptions where the ball is heading right for the cup and stops a 1/4 inch out, but those are rare. Thinking about it, I probably mostly miss short when I'm over 6 feet. All of this is anecdotal because it's my memory. I don't take note on my putting misses on my card.

 

Regarding the line, I think it's a combination actually. The ones I miss low get close to the hole and break near the cup, more speed and they are in. The ones I miss high tend to be when I think "hit this one firm" and I miss the top edge. I can't seem to get that sweet spot of aiming dead center of the cup and banging it in. I either don't take out the break on the low misses or aim too high and hit it firmer.

 

I rarely practice my lag putting, as with putting in general. I had focused my little putting practice on short putts but last week I did both short putts and 30 for 30. Our greens just got punched, yesterday and today, so putting putting practice and on course will be dicey. In the past the greens haven't been too bad when putting on the sand, so I'm sure it'll have an impact but it's not like you can't make putts on them.

 

 

I just pulled something together real quick. I took the scorecards I haven't recycled yet and  pulled first putt distance and second putt distance for all the holes I did not 1 putt. I didn't bother with if I made that second putt or not. This is for 75 holes of golf, 4 18 hole rounds(6 Xs removed) and 1 9 nine hole round. 54 of them were 2+ putts. 4 putts were over 30 feet and I left them out of the numbers below.

 

First putt range in feet	#	average leave in feet
3 to 4	7	1
5 to 10	11	2
11 to 19	15	1.8
20 to 30	17	4

 

I think this highlights the main reason my 0-10 foot putting stats are so bad. Almost half of my missed first putts inside 10 feet are in that 3-4 foot range. The lag putting drops off once I get to 20 feet+ but that's pretty normal and the SG I'm losing in that range isn't as significant i.e. less than 1 stroke per round.

 

Looking at the 11 to 19 foot putts, almost a third of them 6/15, were left at 3 feet...

 

I just pulled the ratio of missed putts in the 3 foot range for all of my 3 and 4 putts and it's 15/21...

 

I think I am 100% accurate when I say I suck at short putts....

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

Yeah, it's hard to narrow down the misses. What I find is I tend to leave longer ones, 20+ feet short but there are exceptions like when it's downslope and things are running faster or the times I give it a good whack and watch it roll 3-4 feet long. Putts inside 6 feet mostly miss long but there are exceptions where the ball is heading right for the cup and stops a 1/4 inch out, but those are rare. Thinking about it, I probably mostly miss short when I'm over 6 feet. All of this is anecdotal because it's my memory. I don't take note on my putting misses on my card.

 

Regarding the line, I think it's a combination actually. The ones I miss low get close to the hole and break near the cup, more speed and they are in. The ones I miss high tend to be when I think "hit this one firm" and I miss the top edge. I can't seem to get that sweet spot of aiming dead center of the cup and banging it in. I either don't take out the break on the low misses or aim too high and hit it firmer.

 

First point... Short putts should almost never be missed short. And even then "almost" is when going long would hit a ridge due to a bad pin placement, roll off the green, and into a giant chasm never to be seen again. Short putts should pretty much never be missed short. 

 

Goal is to hit a short putt at a pace that will finish 1-2 feet beyond the hole. Dispersion should be centered around 18 inches past, such that the distance dispersion at a 95% level is between the hole and maybe 3 feet past. 

 

As putts get longer, the dispersion pattern should be centered at the hole. Meaning 50% of [missed] putts at say 30 feet should be short, and 50% should be long. The key to distance control, then, is making sure that you're not leaving those putts 6 feet short or 6 feet long, trying to improve your dispersion such that the 95% level is within 3 feet of the hole, but if some are short of the hole at that distance, that's perfectly fine. Goal is 50/50, which means that you're centered correctly. 

 

For these short putts, how much of it do you think is mental? If your high and low misses are consistently finishing 1-2 feet past regardless of missing high or low, it's not speed, it's line. If those ones that miss low are 6" past the hole and the ones that miss high are 2 1/2 feet past the hole, then it's speed. 

 

Quote

First putt range in feet	#	average leave in feet
3 to 4	7	1
5 to 10	11	2
11 to 19	15	1.8
20 to 30	17	4

 

 

If your AVERAGE leave on 20 to 30 foot putts is 4 feet, that would suggest that you're leaving a lot of putts >4 feet away. Which means you're not lagging very well. You want your average leave to be well within 4 feet such that your worst leaves, the ones you're disappointed in because you just made two-putting a lot harder, are in the 4-5 foot range

 

So I wouldn't say the issue is just the short putts. 

 

I do think 30 for 30 is a good game for you, then... It puts pressure on you to read speed and break on the lag putts, to make 2-putting easy. Then if the lag is poor, you REALLY have to focus on getting that second putt--probably often in your 3-5 foot problem area, to drop to avoid a -3 score. So it should help with both issues you fight. 

[bortass]

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

If your AVERAGE leave on 20 to 30 foot putts is 4 feet, that would suggest that you're leaving a lot of putts >4 feet away. Which means you're not lagging very well. You want your average leave to be well within 4 feet such that your worst leaves, the ones you're disappointed in because you just made two-putting a lot harder, are in the 4-5 foot range

 

Here's where averages can get "funny". If I remove the two worst misses, I average 3 feet from 20 to 30 feet. One miss was 10 feet when the putt up a ridge didn't make it and it travelled along the crest of the ridge and away from the hole. That specific putt was such an anomaly that I remember it pretty well. The other bad miss was a 9 footer, not sure what I did on that one. Both are terrible putts but they do skew the numbers.

 

That said, I agree with your thoughts and I'll have to try to remember to track the type of miss. I'll need to work out a notation of some sort for my card. Luckily Arccos has cleaned up what I write during a round, so i have plenty of room.

 

1 hour ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

For these short putts, how much of it do you think is mental? If your high and low misses are consistently finishing 1-2 feet past regardless of missing high or low, it's not speed, it's line. If those ones that miss low are 6" past the hole and the ones that miss high are 2 1/2 feet past the hole, then it's speed. 

Some of it is likely mental. I think "aim at the cup and hit it firm" and watch the putt break early. So that can turn into "aim at the cup and hit it harder" and it misses high and long. My natural style of putting is to die it in the hole. It's how I've always putted, so the rattle the ball in the cup is not my norm. More practice will help.

 

I mentioned my putting woes to the pro part way through my lesson today. He's a die it in the cup putter as well. You need to get the ball past the hole. A putt missing low will run out more than one missing high. Aim for the spot in the break where it won't miss low and try to die it just past the hole. What he's found is because the high miss doesn't tend to run as far past the hole, you'll be left with a fairly short next putt. He said it helps with the fear of blowing the ball past the hole when you hit it hard enough to reach but miss low.  I may try this when I get out and do more 30 for 30. See what happens.

[betarhoalphadelta]

25 minutes ago, bortass said:

 

Some of it is likely mental. I think "aim at the cup and hit it firm" and watch the putt break early. So that can turn into "aim at the cup and hit it harder" and it misses high and long. My natural style of putting is to die it in the hole. It's how I've always putted, so the rattle the ball in the cup is not my norm. More practice will help.

 

I mentioned my putting woes to the pro part way through my lesson today. He's a die it in the cup putter as well. You need to get the ball past the hole. A putt missing low will run out more than one missing high. Aim for the spot in the break where it won't miss low and try to die it just past the hole. What he's found is because the high miss doesn't tend to run as far past the hole, you'll be left with a fairly short next putt. He said it helps with the fear of blowing the ball past the hole when you hit it hard enough to reach but miss low.  I may try this when I get out and do more 30 for 30. See what happens.

 

Good luck. I started getting so scared of blasting it WAY past the hole and leaving myself with a 5 footer after missing a 4 footer that I got too enamored with die at the hole style on short putts. You have to REALLY get the break perfect to die a 4 footer at the hole if it's breaking 6-12" over that span. But a missed 4-footer is a missed 4-footer. Sure, you don't want a 5-footer coming back to avoid a four-putt, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to worry about that if you're not giving yourself a chance at the 4-footer and the two-putt. 

 

I've been trying to get over that myself. 

[bortass]

My lesson was surprising in a way, though I shouldn't be surprised since I was completely wrong on my issue which is not strange at all. Turns out my aim/setup is fine. It's a swing flaw! I know, shocking.

 

The issue is I'm still OTT!  One culprit is I still open the clubface on the way back. Toe is still up some at club parallel. So he gave me a drill to help with that. He also gave me some feels at the top of my backswing, namely getting my right elbow back more which helps keep me from laying off the club at the top. Shallowing the club came up as well.

 

He also showed me something with three golf balls that helped him because it's a visual cue. Set them up in a diagonal line the first ball is forward and closer to you; middle is the ball you hit; third ball is behind the middle ball and further outside kinda like this '/' . The left and right balls can be 6+ inches from the one you're hitting. It's not a goal of trying to thread the needle between them but to give you a visual cue of being in to out. 

 

I think it's not going to be an easy change but when I did the drill correctly, I got some real good ball flight. Also my divots started to point more to the right instead of left like they do now. He said over time I'll find that my start line will start to shift to the right. 

 

So nothing outlandish and it all makes sense to me. Just gotta work on it.

[bortass]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

Good luck. I started getting so scared of blasting it WAY past the hole and leaving myself with a 5 footer after missing a 4 footer that I got too enamored with die at the hole style on short putts. You have to REALLY get the break perfect to die a 4 footer at the hole if it's breaking 6-12" over that span. But a missed 4-footer is a missed 4-footer. Sure, you don't want a 5-footer coming back to avoid a four-putt, but it doesn't make a lot of sense to worry about that if you're not giving yourself a chance at the 4-footer and the two-putt. 

 

I've been trying to get over that myself. 

I hear ya. It's not fear or anything else, I just have always putted that way until the last year where I was trying to be more firm with mixed results.  It's the longer putts that I think this may help to get me to get it to the hole more often and not 5-6 feet long. I'll see what happens with 30 for 30. I think the 3 footers will be learning to hit it through the break with a firm putt and trusting it.

[bortass]

On 6/21/2022 at 5:18 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

You need to invest in Use the Bounce 2.0 and learn voodoo putting. It’ll change your life forever.

 

i also guarantee that you’re moving your hips when you putt. Get someone to hold them while you make some putts to confirm. Still hips is the #1 putting fundamental.

Sorry for the delay responding.

 

I have UTB 2.0 and I have watched voodoo putting in the past but have not given it a fair enough shake yet.  I didn't feel like it helped but I didn't try it much. It's probably a misunderstanding on my part or I need to work on it for a while to get the hang of it.

 

Regarding the hips, you may very well be correct. I decided to go back to square one and watched an older Shawn Clements video on putting, namely the stroke itself. I don't think I putt by rocking my shoulders. I'll have to see if Stockton and/or Orr have some putting videos just dealing with the basics.

[TheDeanAbides]

2 minutes ago, bortass said:

Sorry for the delay responding.

 

I have UTB 2.0 and I have watched voodoo putting in the past but have not given it a fair enough shake yet.  I didn't feel like it helped but I didn't try it much. It's probably a misunderstanding on my part or I need to work on it for a while to get the hang of it.

 

Regarding the hips, you may very well be correct. I decided to go back to square one and watched an older Shawn Clements video on putting, namely the stroke itself. I don't think I putt by rocking my shoulders. I'll have to see if Stockton and/or Orr have some putting videos just dealing with the basics.

Obviously voodoo putting will only work if you make a neutral stroke through the ball. It’s well worth investing in a putting lesson - nowhere near enough people do. 👍🏻

[betarhoalphadelta]

1 hour ago, bortass said:

Sorry for the delay responding.

 

I have UTB 2.0 and I have watched voodoo putting in the past but have not given it a fair enough shake yet.  I didn't feel like it helped but I didn't try it much. It's probably a misunderstanding on my part or I need to work on it for a while to get the hang of it.

 

Regarding the hips, you may very well be correct. I decided to go back to square one and watched an older Shawn Clements video on putting, namely the stroke itself. I don't think I putt by rocking my shoulders. I'll have to see if Stockton and/or Orr have some putting videos just dealing with the basics.

 

UTB2.0 included more things on putting, and one of the key segments was on not opening the hips through the stroke. You may want to revisit the whole putting series. 

 

Heck, I should probably do that too 😉 

 

[bortass]

I watched the UTB 2.0 putting videos yesterday. Pretty much everything Monte said resonated with me. I even watched the voodoo putting and tried it on the course last night, I had the same result I had the other time I tried it, my aim was off by feet... I'm still doing something wrong because it's not giving me a line that comes close to the hole.

 

I also watched a couple Eric Corgonos(sp?) videos that featured David Orr. David talked about a few things but the one that I tried doing was telling myself what the putt would do verbally, out loud. I wasn't as detailed as Orr was, I just said "this breaks left to right".

 

I took the verbalization and what I picked up from the Monte videos onto the course last night. The greens were punched and sanded over the previous two days. My putting was much better unless sanded greens with holes makes me a better putter. Short putts were an issue still, I was 1/4 for putts in the 3-4 foot range. Some of that may have been the condition of the greens but still. Lag putting was much better though. I had 4 first putts in the 17 - 36 foot range. I got them all to a foot and pretty much pin high except the one hole I tried voodoo putting and I missed 3 feet low( that's the 3 footer I made). 

 

I'll post a round recap later.