Tour Issue AMT S400 vs AMT Tour White S300

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, cosmoslux said:

Does True Temper still sell the AMT Tour White S400 (non tour issue)? I can't find those available anywhere.

 

Where did you look?

https://www.dallasgolf.com/new-true-temper-dynamic-gold-tour-issue-amt-s400-iron-shafts-4-pw-355/

 

[cosmoslux]

That is where I purchased the 4-pw. They do not have any 3 iron shafts. So I’m looking for something to put in my 3 iron.

[cosmoslux]

I have connected with True Temper, Dallas Golf and a few others and the DG AMT White s400 are no longer available or being produced. 

 

Any suggestions on what shaft would complement the set for a 3 iron?

 

[Ger21]

I bought some 4-PW Tour White and hard stepped them and added another wedge shaft to use them in 3-PW.

You always try another 4i shaft?

[cosmoslux]

That's what I was thinking. Hard stepping a s300 to get close to s400 in feel and flex. Dallas golf is the only place that has a few sets left of the s400s but only sells the whole set. They will not sell individual shafts

[MrShield]

On 2/18/2020 at 8:13 PM, Howard_Jones said:

AMT is different from other shafts since they move more up or down in shaft weight when we soft or hard step them than what we are used to see, and i think its one of this charts you are thinking of.

Howard, I have seen your schemes like this regarding soft stepping AMT charts in a few places, but I can’t get my head around why the first step (only the first shaft) is 5g and not 3g?

[Stuart_G]

15 minutes ago, MrShield said:

Howard, I have seen your schemes like this regarding soft stepping AMT charts in a few places, but I can’t get my head around why the first step (only the first shaft) is 5g and not 3g?

 

3 gm is the difference in uncut weight between the shafts.  On top of that, soft stepping changes the cut length (shorter) relative to the length it would have been in the longer iron (that would have given the 3 gm difference).  So because more lenfth will be cut off the shaft for the build, you loose more than the 3gm difference in the uncut weight.   I'm guessing it's not even because Howard is rounding fractions to the nearest whole number.  The reality is likely somewhere between.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Stuart_G

[Howard_Jones]

11 hours ago, MrShield said:

Howard, I have seen your schemes like this regarding soft stepping AMT charts in a few places, but I can’t get my head around why the first step (only the first shaft) is 5g and not 3g?

Its like Stuart say, we loose BOTH the wgt difference from shaft to shaft PLUS from 0.5" more butt cut for each step. Numbers ARE rounded up or down to closest whole gram to avoid decimals.

[MrShield]

19 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

Its like Stuart say, we loose BOTH the wgt difference from shaft to shaft PLUS from 0.5" more butt cut for each step. Numbers ARE rounded up or down to closest whole gram to avoid decimals.

Makes totally sense, thanks!

[Howard_Jones]

1 hour ago, MrShield said:

Makes totally sense, thanks!

a few more words about that chart and many others ive made...
There is NO "common" terms for what that chart shows off, but i call it COMPARABLE WEIGHT.

Since shaft comes in may different weight, AND lengths, we cant compare them directly without converting the numbers like this so they become "directly comparable".

We have this issue among NON soft/hard stepped shafts too, the classic example is when we compare Dynamic Gold with Project X.

Most will say that the DG X100 is 130 grams, and PX 6.5 is 125 grams but thats wrong.
PX is uncut 0.5 longer than the same DG shaft, so lets use the #9 where DG is 130 grams / 37.00" and PX becomes 6.5 is 125 grams / 37.50"

Play ready they will both have the same NET cut length, but since PX was 0.5" longer from the start, we will loose the weight of 0.5" inch on PX before we have "compatible" or comparable values.

(125 grams  /37.50") / 2 = 1.66 grams 

That means the COMPARABLE WGT of PX is 125 - 1.66 = 123.34 grams vs DG at 130 grams
Weight difference is 6.66, not only 5 grams as the specs give the impression of.

This is what the chart for AMT shows off. Values that can be put directly up against each other as "comparable" shaft wgt as "uncut" or before butt cut, now "equalized" to the same "start length" to give all options the same starting point.

[MrShield]

10 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

a few more words about that chart and many others ive made...
There is NO "common" terms for what that chart shows off, but i call it COMPARABLE WEIGHT.

Since shaft comes in may different weight, AND lengths, we cant compare them directly without converting the numbers like this so they become "directly comparable".

We have this issue among NON soft/hard stepped shafts too, the classic example is when we compare Dynamic Gold with Project X.

Most will say that the DG X100 is 130 grams, and PX 6.5 is 125 grams but thats wrong.
PX is uncut 0.5 longer than the same DG shaft, so lets use the #9 where DG is 130 grams / 37.00" and PX becomes 6.5 is 125 grams / 37.50"

Play ready they will both have the same NET cut length, but since PX was 0.5" longer from the start, we will loose the weight of 0.5" inch on PX before we have "compatible" or comparable values.

(125 grams  /37.50") / 2 = 1.66 grams 

That means the COMPARABLE WGT of PX is 125 - 1.66 = 123.34 grams vs DG at 130 grams
Weight difference is 6.66, not only 5 grams as the specs give the impression of.

This is what the chart for AMT shows off. Values that can be put directly up against each other as "comparable" shaft wgt as "uncut" or before butt cut, now "equalized" to the same "start length" to give all options the same starting point.

And then we need to take into account that weight difference of +/- 2 grams for the Gold standard per shaft which makes it even more complicated to have a valid comparison per case 😊

 

Just for fun I did some weighting on my AMT s400 set without heads (but with grips on - that can also add/remove some difference) but my 7 shaft and 8 shaft hade a difference of 0.5 grams in cut length. All other shaft almost hade a perfect match of 2.5-3.5g difference. When you find an outlier like this you really see the value of Tour Issue.