Marcus Bell - Zen Golf

[TexasTurf]

17 hours ago, zacgolf said:

Maybe of interest, another very good video..

 

 

 

Thank you so much for this. Why don't instructors talk about moving the COG from behind to in front of you. 

[MrHateCoffee]

Interesting. I will check out his videos and monitor this thread. 
 

im taking lessons now from a guy way too focused on swing science. There’s some good in it but I’m not sure if it’s the best method for me. 

[Carlus]

Interesting thread guys and thanks for all the references.

Followed for 5+ years Chuck Quinton and his theory but I went nowhere. The instruction for his foundation pieces where contradictory and in the past month he has introduced the "push with the trail side" of the body. His entire library of over 180 videos has been build on the pull with the lead side concept.

Will give this method a try even if I agree with no basic theory behind it could lead to reverese pivot and too much swaying.

Do you know where can I purchase those yellow / blue pads Mark is using on his "studio"?

Thanks

[MrHateCoffee]

On 9/4/2020 at 6:54 AM, SHAFUA said:

I'm a convert 

 

Think his teaching is gold for people in the 10-30 handicap range....

 

his 3 key steps seem to be 

 

1 Remove tension

2 Footwork 

3 Learn the draw and fade path space 

 

 

 

Is there a summary of his method online?  Does he have a website or a book?  I don't get much out of watching a bunch of 20+ min videos 

[MrHateCoffee]

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Edited December 2, 2020 by MrHateCoffee
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[MrHateCoffee]

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Edited December 2, 2020 by MrHateCoffee
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[zacgolf]

Marcus working with top Pro

 

 

 

[Wayne Jean]

i 

[MrHateCoffee]

Anybody buy his board? It’s sold out and would be expensive to ship to the US but I’m intrigued 

[osorojotx]

On 10/11/2020 at 4:59 AM, willbones said:

The idea that the golf swing is a natural movement has never washed with me.  There is nothing particularly natural about the golf swing- standing to one side of the target line for one thing makes it pretty unnatural.   

Natural is pretty subjective anyway. The reason most people can't hit a golf ball straight is because they're using their "natural" movement and it's horribly unsequenced and coerced. I would argue that most people aren't going to get better without moving into an "unnatural" place at one point or another.

 

One thing that I don't think can be argued about what he teaches is his emphasis on getting people to use their feet instead of driving everything with the arms. That seems to be so critical in ordering movement consistently and getting momentum to work for you instead of fighting it.

[PracticeSwinger]

2 minutes ago, osorojotx said:

One thing that I don't think can be argued about what he teaches is his emphasis on getting people to use their feet instead of driving everything with the arms. That seems to be so critical in ordering movement consistently and getting momentum to work for you instead of fighting it.

Agreed - and I would guess a lot of swing faults would be corrected rather easily if people would understand the groud reaction forces (that come from the pressure you put into the ground: when&where) - for example, with your CoM centered at address, stomping/screwing your trail foot during takeaway automatically kills sway and gets you deep... and at LAP DS, pressure in your lead foot (pushing hard forward and toward target) automatically kills slide and helps pushing back your lead hip for a better pivot... work on this at first... afterwards, you can add body tilt / clubhead momentum / arms positioning / wrists action... if you go the other way around, I can have the perfect wrists position at the top - but if I've moved 8 inches behind the ball, good luck finding the sweet spot consistenly...

[Scyukon]

I am expecting delivery of the board today at 5. Purchased about 3 weeks ago. It also comes with a two hour video explaining drills and how the swing marries forward, upward, and rotational forces for an effortless powerful swing. I can’t wait to try as i have 40 plus years of mostly frustrating swing study going all the way back to Jimmy Ballard for gosh sakes and have never seen the swing explained in this manner to try and obtain the proper kinetic sequence. The closest i ever came was 20 years ago when i (no word of a lie) swung like Matthew Wolff and crushed it but was too stupid to stick with it because of how it looked.

[MrHateCoffee]

On 3/29/2021 at 6:23 PM, Scyukon said:

I am expecting delivery of the board today at 5. Purchased about 3 weeks ago. It also comes with a two hour video explaining drills and how the swing marries forward, upward, and rotational forces for an effortless powerful swing. I can’t wait to try as i have 40 plus years of mostly frustrating swing study going all the way back to Jimmy Ballard for gosh sakes and have never seen the swing explained in this manner to try and obtain the proper kinetic sequence. The closest i ever came was 20 years ago when i (no word of a lie) swung like Matthew Wolff and crushed it but was too stupid to stick with it because of how it looked.

How are you liking the board? I wish I could just buy the videos directly because I already have a board. I know Marcus says the new board is better designed but I don’t have $200+ and a month of delivery time to spare. 

[ajlacombe]

I have not used it much - had too many things going on to really get into it.  I have a list of Marcus' YT videos that I saved so I could go back and hopefully get back into it.  I also follow Shawn Clement and his methods are very similar to Marcus in using the ground

[me05501]

Not every method is for everyone, definitely. 
 

Also it’s very different to start with a beginner and get them hitting the ball decently than to take someone hitting it okay and change their pattern to help them hit it better. Not sure which is harder really. 
 

In any case I definitely know people that could use a big dose of what Zen Golf preaches on his channel. He’s trying to help people tap into their natural, instinctive power sources. We all have this in our DNA else we’re wouldn’t have survived as a species. 
 

I’m playing with a good buddy today who has a lot of odd, stress inducing habits that kill his game. I’d love to see him on a Zen Golf video. I know he could improve dramatically in one lesson if he would listen to what is being taught. He’s damn sure not going to listen to me. 🙂

[TheDeanAbides]

I wish Marcus wasn't one of those "teachers" who say that the backswing doesn't matter. I also wish he didn't teach people to hit draws the way he does because it's not sustainable. I think he's great at showing how to use the ground, but it's not enough to build a lasting swing without decent mechanics with the upper body/arms/wrists.

[glk]

On 2/7/2021 at 5:04 PM, MrHateCoffee said:

Anybody buy his board? It’s sold out and would be expensive to ship to the US but I’m intrigued 

Ted Sheftic invented this and his son mark Sheftic now sells it.  Amg uses it.  I have had one for over a year.  Well worth it.

 

https://www.shefticpressureboard.com/

[TheDeanAbides]

1 minute ago, glk said:

Ted Sheftic invented this and his son mark Sheftic now sells it.  Amg uses it.  I have had one for over a year.  Well worth it.

 

https://www.shefticpressureboard.com/

The difference between this and the Zen Golf one is you can twist on it to apply torque.

[hoganfan924]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I wish Marcus wasn't one of those "teachers" who say that the backswing doesn't matter. I also wish he didn't teach people to hit draws the way he does because it's not sustainable. I think he's great at showing how to use the ground, but it's not enough to build a lasting swing without decent mechanics with the upper body/arms/wrists.

He might say that (I'm not sure that he does), but I've seen several of his videos where he's working on getting the student to swing the club toward a target on the wall behind him in the backswing (I think the Z in his Zengolf sign).

[golfsticks]

1 hour ago, TheDeanAbides said:

I wish Marcus wasn't one of those "teachers" who say that the backswing doesn't matter. I also wish he didn't teach people to hit draws the way he does because it's not sustainable. I think he's great at showing how to use the ground, but it's not enough to build a lasting swing without decent mechanics with the upper body/arms/wrists.

 

Zen does just fine with his message, especially about learning how to play around in space, without rules.    If one knows how to get back to impact in proper form, game on, all great ball strikers and players know this.  A few pennies for the wishing well-

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

6 minutes ago, hoganfan924 said:

He might say that (I'm not sure that he does), but I've seen several of his videos where he's working on getting the student to swing the club toward a target on the wall behind him in the backswing (I think the Z in his Zengolf sign).

He does do that to try and get students to feel what he calls the "draw space" or "fade space" etc. He's also posted at least one video telling students never to change their takeaway. 

 

He also says silly things like "there are no straight lines in nature, so there shouldn't be in golf". 🤦🏻

[me05501]

I made my own balance board from a scrap of 3/4” plywood and a piece of PVC, attached with Gorilla tape. It has held up for months. 

[me05501]

Great new vid from AMG on how and why to use the balance board. For those who want more of the technical/numbers-based explanation for what Zen Golf is teaching this would be good to digest. 

 

 

[Scyukon]

So the board was delayed a few days in transit but i finally opened up the package Friday night. Unfortunately one of the spinning disks was broken, either in shipping (or by customs) but the zen folks have agreed to send me another set of disks. Nonetheless i watched the two hour video and did a few of the drills that did not require both disks. I definitely noticed a lot lot of whip using just the balance board - the drill where you bang the front of the board down to change club direction is particularly useful. I have superglued the magnet back on to the disk that was broken, and after it is fully bonded (hopefully tomorrow) will try out some of the two disk drills, which appear to be the key to the pivot move he is teaching. Very excited to try but was disappointed that disk was broken out of the gate (magnet came off disc) but as i said they were aware that some disks were faulty and have been quick to ship another, although this time not by fedex (from UK to Canada) so according to parcel tracking nowhere until April 24 or so. Hope the superglue works so can do drills that need both disks on board.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Scyukon

[Scyukon]

On 4/1/2021 at 10:35 PM, MrHateCoffee said:

How are you liking the board? I wish I could just buy the videos directly because I already have a board. I know Marcus says the new board is better designed but I don’t have $200+ and a month of delivery time to spare. 

I think you can buy the training video off Vimeo but i think it was around $300 US. How did you get the board without getting the video? I had only one choice when buying could not purchase board only but glad i got the video too certainly lays out the path to learning his swing it appears. Time will tell.

Edited April 6, 2021 by Scyukon

[Scyukon]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:41 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

I wish Marcus wasn't one of those "teachers" who say that the backswing doesn't matter. I also wish he didn't teach people to hit draws the way he does because it's not sustainable. I think he's great at showing how to use the ground, but it's not enough to build a lasting swing without decent mechanics with the upper body/arms/wrists.

So i studied George Knudsen’s Natural Golf Swing for around 7 years in the 90s. One of the key tenets from that swing was control the center to control the motion. Also rotate to load, and transfer weight to the finishing position to unload. The arms, hands, and club will go where the body takes them. Looking back on those teachings now, i could never appreciate the vertical ground forces being applied, nor do i recall them being talked about. Or maybe they were and despite wearing out the vhs tape and two copies of the book i was too dense to pick it up. To me, it appears after watching the zen instruction video that learning the zen pivot motion and how to apply these vertical ground forces that is going to be the missing link in finding my natural swing.

 

For those of you with more hair (and not yet gray) than me you can google George Knudsen natural swing and find the 21 minute video on YouTube. I never get tired of watching that guy hit a ball.

 

 

[TheDeanAbides]

29 minutes ago, Scyukon said:

So i studied George Knudsen’s Natural Golf Swing for around 7 years in the 90s. One of the key tenets from that swing was control the center to control the motion. Also rotate to load, and transfer weight to the finishing position to unload. The arms, hands, and club will go where the body takes them. Looking back on those teachings now, i could never appreciate the vertical ground forces being applied, nor do i recall them being talked about. Or maybe they were and despite wearing out the vhs tape and two copies of the book i was too dense to pick it up. To me, it appears after watching the zen instruction video that learning the zen pivot motion and how to apply these vertical ground forces that is going to be the missing link in finding my natural swing.

 

For those of you with more hair (and not yet gray) than me you can google George Knudsen natural swing and find the 21 minute video on YouTube. I never get tired of watching that guy hit a ball.

 

 

Love his swing. Shame that he putted like a 20 cap. 

[MrHateCoffee]

8 hours ago, Scyukon said:

I think you can buy the training video off Vimeo but i think it was around $300 US. How did you get the board without getting the video? I had only one choice when buying could not purchase board only but glad i got the video too certainly lays out the path to learning his swing it appears. Time will tell.

 

Back before he made his own he was supporting people creating their own boards.  I saw a guy on YouTube and emulated his design.  It's not a 1 to 1 to the current GRF board but it's about 90% close. 

 

Why in the world are the videos $300??   That's more expensive than the new board.  I just wanted some drills.

[Scyukon]

It’s a single video but it is two hours long and very comprehensive. I feel better about the price i paid for the board (and video) now given that i thought i was only getting the board when i purchased it. It’s basically as if i paid for a lesson without having to travel to the UK. Plus i don’t mind supporting Marcus given how much free information he gives out already by sharing portions of his lessons.

 

 

[me05501]

1 hour ago, MrHateCoffee said:

 

Back before he made his own he was supporting people creating their own boards.  I saw a guy on YouTube and emulated his design.  It's not a 1 to 1 to the current GRF board but it's about 90% close. 

 

Why in the world are the videos $300??   That's more expensive than the new board.  I just wanted some drills.

 

Perceived value is a huge psychological minefield. Generally speaking, the more someone pays for something the more value they assign to it, regardless of the cost of the raw materials or any other factor. 

 

Look at all the premium car brands selling models derived from their manufacturer's core lineup under different names. They basically add $10,000 in leather and wood and sound dampening to a $40,000 model and sell it for $80,000. And over time they've learned that if they let some of that investment trickle down to the $40,000 vehicle they can sell it for $55,000.