I’m gassing for some Hogan Grind’s

[Bruceapex]

For what it’s worth...

I'm a 4 handicap

i play redlines, I also own ‘75 apex, medallions, legends 40th anniversary, ‘90 grinds, ‘92 ft worth forged, ‘94 channel backs, all bought new. I tried ‘99s, really wanted ‘99s to feel great because they looked so nice, and nice, to be sure, but no redline.

Thru the years I’ve played every hogan apex except ‘72s. (Way more than just a round or two, to boot)

Only set I “hated” were the channel backs. Not a true apex in my opinion...not a blade on blade design and play like they are not even Hogan’s at all. I was very disappointed with them after playing them for a 1/2 of year or so.

I have gone thru 4 or 5 sets of red lines, all brand new, wearing them out over the 30+ years and though I’ve played a huge #of rounds with all the aforementioned, I always...ALWAYS...come back to red lines. The last set of brand new redlines went into my bag 2 years ago. It’s my last new set, and hope they last me for the rest of eternity.

The grinds look great but I find the grinds must be hit very close to the hose for proper feel, center of club strikes come off the club somewhat dead, compared to red lines. Toe hits on grinds are sting-ie.

every other apex or similar apex like hogan have a slightly less buttery feel to them. All of them have uniquenesses to them and need a special touch, but even when one becomes one with the club, the redlines are still far superior. The red lines can be hit nearly anywhere on the face while maintaining outstanding feel. And if feel it what it’s all about, and I do believe that’s the case for me, there’s is simply nothing that has ever compared to the feel of the redlines. Other Hogan’s are great indeed, but just slightly less so than redlines.

Redlines...the finest golf club ever made...period.

All are 4 shafts.

Thru all these years finding the “right” ball for feel has been the biggest challenge as after tour balata went away in the late 90ies, every manufacturer changes their ball design every couple of years. When I find one that has that proper feel, I buy several years worth. Currently I’m playing 3 year old design Wilson soft spin 3piece balls. Next year the ball search begins anew....

My woods are 89 thru 99 apex persimmon, have many both shallow face (fewer of those) and “normal” club head, with both steel shaft apex 4 and gene sheely designed GS Graphite black#4 shafts. Many gold graphite #4s as well that play identical to the blacks shafts. I believe the golf graphite shafts are just the GS black shafts painted gold. Never had any of the Gray graphite shafts. My favorites that I play every day are the GS graphite #4 shafted apex’s from the late 80s to the end of their production. All bought brand new, still have many I’ve yet to put into service. Rarely play a 5 wood, love my 3 and4 woods and use them based on the course I’m playing as to a 3 or 4 wood.

just the ramblings of a 65 year old hogan player that never strayed far off the path of Apex’s, though I gave many a club a proper shake. Today’s clubs have no feel, it’s why they call them clubs. Redlines and my persimmons are precision  instruments.

[Foozle]

5 hours ago, Bruceapex said:

For what it’s worth...

I'm a 4 handicap

i play redlines, I also own ‘75 apex, medallions, legends 40th anniversary, ‘90 grinds, ‘92 ft worth forged, ‘94 channel backs, all bought new. I tried ‘99s, really wanted ‘99s to feel great because they looked so nice, and nice, to be sure, but no redline.

Thru the years I’ve played every hogan apex except ‘72s. (Way more than just a round or two, to boot)

Only set I “hated” were the channel backs. Not a true apex in my opinion...not a blade on blade design and play like they are not even Hogan’s at all. I was very disappointed with them after playing them for a 1/2 of year or so.

I have gone thru 4 or 5 sets of red lines, all brand new, wearing them out over the 30+ years and though I’ve played a huge #of rounds with all the aforementioned, I always...ALWAYS...come back to red lines. The last set of brand new redlines went into my bag 2 years ago. It’s my last new set, and hope they last me for the rest of eternity.

The grinds look great but I find the grinds must be hit very close to the hose for proper feel, center of club strikes come off the club somewhat dead, compared to red lines. Toe hits on grinds are sting-ie.

every other apex or similar apex like hogan have a slightly less buttery feel to them. All of them have uniquenesses to them and need a special touch, but even when one becomes one with the club, the redlines are still far superior. The red lines can be hit nearly anywhere on the face while maintaining outstanding feel. And if feel it what it’s all about, and I do believe that’s the case for me, there’s is simply nothing that has ever compared to the feel of the redlines. Other Hogan’s are great indeed, but just slightly less so than redlines.

Redlines...the finest golf club ever made...period.

All are 4 shafts.

Thru all these years finding the “right” ball for feel has been the biggest challenge as after tour balata went away in the late 90ies, every manufacturer changes their ball design every couple of years. When I find one that has that proper feel, I buy several years worth. Currently I’m playing 3 year old design Wilson soft spin 3piece balls. Next year the ball search begins anew....

My woods are 89 thru 99 apex persimmon, have many both shallow face (fewer of those) and “normal” club head, with both steel shaft apex 4 and gene sheely designed GS Graphite black#4 shafts. Many gold graphite #4s as well that play identical to the blacks shafts. I believe the golf graphite shafts are just the GS black shafts painted gold. Never had any of the Gray graphite shafts. My favorites that I play every day are the GS graphite #4 shafted apex’s from the late 80s to the end of their production. All bought brand new, still have many I’ve yet to put into service. Rarely play a 5 wood, love my 3 and4 woods and use them based on the course I’m playing as to a 3 or 4 wood.

just the ramblings of a 65 year old hogan player that never strayed far off the path of Apex’s, though I gave many a club a proper shake. Today’s clubs have no feel, it’s why they call them clubs. Redlines and my persimmons are precision  instruments.

Bruceapex,

Interesting comments and I completely agree with you on modern clubs lacking feel and classic Hogan's being precision instruments.

You have a very similar set up to me - Redlines with Apex persimmons and all Apex 4. Although I must confess to switching out to a set of FG17's with reg flex shafts late in the season as various infirmities seemed to stop me getting the best out of the '4's. Might need to source some Redline's with Apex 3....

My issue with Grind's may have been not daring to get the ball close enough into the hosel. I put the dead feel down to the S300's in mine just not working for me.

Other than the Grind's, my Redline's are the newest of my Hogan's.  My others sets go all the way back to Precisions and include a set of '72 Apex. I love them all but commented earlier in this thread that I struggle with the '72's and think the issue is the weight being moved high on the club face. Possibly not Hogan's finest design and perhaps why it was a 1 year only model?

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, Bruceapex said:

For what it’s worth...

I'm a 4 handicap

i play redlines, I also own ‘75 apex, medallions, legends 40th anniversary, ‘90 grinds, ‘92 ft worth forged, ‘94 channel backs, all bought new. I tried ‘99s, really wanted ‘99s to feel great because they looked so nice, and nice, to be sure, but no redline.

Thru the years I’ve played every hogan apex except ‘72s. (Way more than just a round or two, to boot)

Only set I “hated” were the channel backs. Not a true apex in my opinion...not a blade on blade design and play like they are not even Hogan’s at all. I was very disappointed with them after playing them for a 1/2 of year or so.

I have gone thru 4 or 5 sets of red lines, all brand new, wearing them out over the 30+ years and though I’ve played a huge #of rounds with all the aforementioned, I always...ALWAYS...come back to red lines. The last set of brand new redlines went into my bag 2 years ago. It’s my last new set, and hope they last me for the rest of eternity.

The grinds look great but I find the grinds must be hit very close to the hose for proper feel, center of club strikes come off the club somewhat dead, compared to red lines. Toe hits on grinds are sting-ie.

every other apex or similar apex like hogan have a slightly less buttery feel to them. All of them have uniquenesses to them and need a special touch, but even when one becomes one with the club, the redlines are still far superior. The red lines can be hit nearly anywhere on the face while maintaining outstanding feel. And if feel it what it’s all about, and I do believe that’s the case for me, there’s is simply nothing that has ever compared to the feel of the redlines. Other Hogan’s are great indeed, but just slightly less so than redlines.

Redlines...the finest golf club ever made...period.

All are 4 shafts.

Thru all these years finding the “right” ball for feel has been the biggest challenge as after tour balata went away in the late 90ies, every manufacturer changes their ball design every couple of years. When I find one that has that proper feel, I buy several years worth. Currently I’m playing 3 year old design Wilson soft spin 3piece balls. Next year the ball search begins anew....

My woods are 89 thru 99 apex persimmon, have many both shallow face (fewer of those) and “normal” club head, with both steel shaft apex 4 and gene sheely designed GS Graphite black#4 shafts. Many gold graphite #4s as well that play identical to the blacks shafts. I believe the golf graphite shafts are just the GS black shafts painted gold. Never had any of the Gray graphite shafts. My favorites that I play every day are the GS graphite #4 shafted apex’s from the late 80s to the end of their production. All bought brand new, still have many I’ve yet to put into service. Rarely play a 5 wood, love my 3 and4 woods and use them based on the course I’m playing as to a 3 or 4 wood.

just the ramblings of a 65 year old hogan player that never strayed far off the path of Apex’s, though I gave many a club a proper shake. Today’s clubs have no feel, it’s why they call them clubs. Redlines and my persimmons are precision  instruments.

I am completely in love with my 99s, but your comment about them only being 'nice' compared to Redlines makes me want to try some and compare. I can't imagine anything feeling as good or being as playable as the 99s. 

[deejaid]

Thanks for the reply Bruce.  Always great to hear from a lifelong player of a club.  You have more years experience with the Hogan brand than I ever will.

 

I am still loving the Medallions.   The feel on a pured shot is truly magical.    I must admit, a I’ve done a little tinkering on the Medallions so that is also why they are playing better than the Grinds for me right now.

 

I tried a new length gapping method I read about in a Tom Wishon article a few years ago, 3/8” increments instead of 1/2”.   I already play my irons 1/2” over so starting at my normal 38.5” 5-iron I made the lengths progress at 3/8”.   This leaves longer short irons and shorter long irons.  For me, it made the 3 and 4 a little more consistent but the big change has been my 7-Equalizer.   A 37” 9-iron and 36 5/8” wedge keep me in a much better posture and my accuracy has been unbelievable recently.

 

I use Tacki Mac nontapered grips so that helps keep the swing weight in the 9-Equalizer manageable at D4.    
 

 

My collecting habits have changed a bit and I have been picking up some classic 1980’s sets lately.  I have a set of Palmer Standard cavity backs and a set of Spalding Tour Editions en route and I plan to give them the same length increments as the Medallions.

 

 

 

[Bruceapex]

I believe that the medallions are, in truth,  the 40th anniversary legends, which can still be found, new in the box, on eBay for very moderate prices. The feel difference I experience between the 2 sets might well be the slight improvement in the shafts from better manufacturing techniques between the years of 1978 and the legends in ‘93. The legends are just a bit purer, just a wee it more precise. The legends are one of my top 4 or 5 models of apex, in fact, if a gun was to my head, I’d say legends are #2 or 3 best apex’s ever.

 

regarding the post about grinds....

putting a non apex shaft into an apex club head is, in my opinion, nothing short of heresy.

Somewhat like dropping a Chevy engine in 1967 mustang fastback...something that is just plain wrong. If you are having “deadness” in a set of grinds fitted with s300s, no surprise!

there is magic in those apex shafts, don’t doubt me on this. That said, this is just my opinion and relates back to feel. Not how far they go, not how they flight, it’s about how they feel.

my wife plays redlines with #3 shafts and I’ve played hers many times. There is, to my mind, very little difference between #3 and #4 shafts in the redlines. When I really lean into 3 shafts, and hit a “poor shot”,  I tend to hook them more than I have ever hooked the #4 shafts...launch them a wee bit higher, too. Otherwise, not a huge difference.

but, please, don’t judge the grinds based on a non apex shaft.

 

lastly, regarding the ‘99 apex. I had a long conversation years ago with the then head of hogan R&D, discussing the differences in carbon steel ingots from the redline era compared to the Spaulding era, circa 1999. Hogan, I was told, rejected a huge % of the raw material, looking for the grain structure that he would allow to become a club head. The supplier of that raw stock changed sometime into the 1990s. That and accepting most any piece of carbon steel HAD have an impact on how the club ending up “feeling”. The 1988 redlines have a softness that is nearly indescribable...and a club to club consistency thru the set that I never found in the 99 apex. Why, who really knows, but the explanation I was given by the guy who ran hogan r&d at the time, who worked with hogan and his club maker, gene sheely, sure made sense to me. I think the apex shafts changed incrementally during that time as well...and not for the better.

[Joe S]

On 11/16/2020 at 11:38 PM, Bruceapex said:

For what it’s worth...

I'm a 4 handicap

i play redlines, I also own ‘75 apex, medallions, legends 40th anniversary, ‘90 grinds, ‘92 ft worth forged, ‘94 channel backs, all bought new. I tried ‘99s, really wanted ‘99s to feel great because they looked so nice, and nice, to be sure, but no redline.

Thru the years I’ve played every hogan apex except ‘72s. (Way more than just a round or two, to boot)

Only set I “hated” were the channel backs. Not a true apex in my opinion...not a blade on blade design and play like they are not even Hogan’s at all. I was very disappointed with them after playing them for a 1/2 of year or so.

I have gone thru 4 or 5 sets of red lines, all brand new, wearing them out over the 30+ years and though I’ve played a huge #of rounds with all the aforementioned, I always...ALWAYS...come back to red lines. The last set of brand new redlines went into my bag 2 years ago. It’s my last new set, and hope they last me for the rest of eternity.

The grinds look great but I find the grinds must be hit very close to the hose for proper feel, center of club strikes come off the club somewhat dead, compared to red lines. Toe hits on grinds are sting-ie.

every other apex or similar apex like hogan have a slightly less buttery feel to them. All of them have uniquenesses to them and need a special touch, but even when one becomes one with the club, the redlines are still far superior. The red lines can be hit nearly anywhere on the face while maintaining outstanding feel. And if feel it what it’s all about, and I do believe that’s the case for me, there’s is simply nothing that has ever compared to the feel of the redlines. Other Hogan’s are great indeed, but just slightly less so than redlines.

Redlines...the finest golf club ever made...period.

All are 4 shafts.

Thru all these years finding the “right” ball for feel has been the biggest challenge as after tour balata went away in the late 90ies, every manufacturer changes their ball design every couple of years. When I find one that has that proper feel, I buy several years worth. Currently I’m playing 3 year old design Wilson soft spin 3piece balls. Next year the ball search begins anew....

My woods are 89 thru 99 apex persimmon, have many both shallow face (fewer of those) and “normal” club head, with both steel shaft apex 4 and gene sheely designed GS Graphite black#4 shafts. Many gold graphite #4s as well that play identical to the blacks shafts. I believe the golf graphite shafts are just the GS black shafts painted gold. Never had any of the Gray graphite shafts. My favorites that I play every day are the GS graphite #4 shafted apex’s from the late 80s to the end of their production. All bought brand new, still have many I’ve yet to put into service. Rarely play a 5 wood, love my 3 and4 woods and use them based on the course I’m playing as to a 3 or 4 wood.

just the ramblings of a 65 year old hogan player that never strayed far off the path of Apex’s, though I gave many a club a proper shake. Today’s clubs have no feel, it’s why they call them clubs. Redlines and my persimmons are precision  instruments.

 

I think you are spot on with your assessment of all of those Hogan blades.   I own all of those as well.  I also have a set of the 72's, but only a partial set of the 92's.  Hogan used to do an interesting thing in their advertising where they would hint at the sweet spot location to let you know if it was middle, heel biased, high, low etc...  The ad for the Redline says "More playable than previous editions, the clubhead weight is more evenly distributed between heel and toe".   On the other hand the Grind ad says "Apex clubs give you the ability to work the ball", which is code for sweet spot closer to the heel.  I have definitely found that it is easier to get that "sweet" feeling from the Redlines than the Grinds.  I also prefer the look, the rounded toe, simple back design and the look of less offset as previously discussed in this thread are more appealing.  But for some reason I tend to score better with the Grinds.  I feel like I am all over the place with the Redlines and much more accurate with the Grinds.  As far as I can tell I'm the only person that feels this way.  

 

I agree with you on the Channelbacks.  Interesting club design, but they have nothing in common with any other Hogan blades. The ad for them says that "the hitting area is 11.3% larger than other forged blades.  It doesn't help.  They aren't very playable at all.  I love the 99's though.  This is my Hogan of choice.  I'm the opposite of you, I didn't want to love them,  I wanted to prefer a blade that was made while Ben Hogan was still involved with the company.  But for me almost everything is right about them.  The look, the feel, and I play well with them.  I keep rotating them out then get the urge to put them back in the bag for a while.

[NRJyzr]

I guess I'm the infidel here....   I didn't care for the Redlines when I hit them.  It's a large part of why I wound up with Golden Rams as my first blades

 

[Foozle]

11 minutes ago, NRJyzr said:

I guess I'm the infidel here....   I didn't care for the Redlines when I hit them.  It's a large part of why I wound up with Golden Rams as my first blades

 

Owwhhh! Now there is a dilemma!

If my Tour Grinds weren't played to death and I could lay my hands on a decent set, would I swap out my Redlines......i think i would....!!

 

[Members Only]

On 10/23/2020 at 1:50 PM, disco111 said:

The 1980 Director to me was/is the best and cleanest head Hogan made...

Unreal

[Members Only]

On 10/23/2020 at 8:04 AM, deejaid said:

Lately I’ve really been looking hard at Hogan Grind irons.    The shape just really suits my eye.   The shape and proportions look perfect.

 

Who here has played them or is still playing them and what can you tell me about them, specifically how the compare with Redlines, and the 1982 Medallions, two other clubs I’ve been drooling over lately.

I used to have Hogan Apex blades and cavities and they were fantastic. I do not know too much about the ones you are mentioning other than seeing them in ebay listings or the occasional golf shop where I got to hit em once or twice on the sim.

I know that these classic looking blades are hard to beat and I think you cannot go wrong. Here is a cool pic I found:

[TheDeanAbides]

14 hours ago, Members Only said:

I used to have Hogan Apex blades and cavities and they were fantastic. I do not know too much about the ones you are mentioning other than seeing them in ebay listings or the occasional golf shop where I got to hit em once or twice on the sim.

I know that these classic looking blades are hard to beat and I think you cannot go wrong. Here is a cool pic I found:

It would be great if someone did a modern version of this photo. This one was created around the time the 99s we're being designed, but digital cameras were in their infancy. It's only 1 megapixel of definition. It would also be great to get the missing irons in there too. 

[Members Only]

11 hours ago, TheDeanAbides said:

It would be great if someone did a modern version of this photo. This one was created around the time the 99s we're being designed, but digital cameras were in their infancy. It's only 1 megapixel of definition. It would also be great to get the missing irons in there too. 

I agree, if anyone has the collection (I'm sure the Hogan company does) then I hope they share!

[EmperorPenguin]

On 11/18/2020 at 8:47 AM, NRJyzr said:

I guess I'm the infidel here....   I didn't care for the Redlines when I hit them.  It's a large part of why I wound up with Golden Rams as my first blades

 

Dude!  I played the Golden Ram Vibration Matched irons for the first seventeen years of my golfing life.  I sold them, had seller's remorse, and eventually bought back another set with the same shafts (FM 6.5).  I never struck the '88 Redlines, but I recently played a round with a recently-acquired set of '73 Apex irons.  I bought them because of the video I posted earlier, and I was very satisfied with how they felt.  I would rate them a close second compared to my Golden Rams.  The long irons of the Rams feel just slightly more solid when struck in the middle.

 

Sorry to contribute to the Ram hijack here.

[EmperorPenguin]

On 11/16/2020 at 8:38 PM, Bruceapex said:

For what it’s worth...

I'm a 4 handicap

i play redlines, I also own ‘75 apex, medallions, legends 40th anniversary, ‘90 grinds, ‘92 ft worth forged, ‘94 channel backs, all bought new. I tried ‘99s, really wanted ‘99s to feel great because they looked so nice, and nice, to be sure, but no redline.

Thru the years I’ve played every hogan apex except ‘72s. (Way more than just a round or two, to boot)

Only set I “hated” were the channel backs. Not a true apex in my opinion...not a blade on blade design and play like they are not even Hogan’s at all. I was very disappointed with them after playing them for a 1/2 of year or so.

I have gone thru 4 or 5 sets of red lines, all brand new, wearing them out over the 30+ years and though I’ve played a huge #of rounds with all the aforementioned, I always...ALWAYS...come back to red lines. The last set of brand new redlines went into my bag 2 years ago. It’s my last new set, and hope they last me for the rest of eternity.

The grinds look great but I find the grinds must be hit very close to the hose for proper feel, center of club strikes come off the club somewhat dead, compared to red lines. Toe hits on grinds are sting-ie.

every other apex or similar apex like hogan have a slightly less buttery feel to them. All of them have uniquenesses to them and need a special touch, but even when one becomes one with the club, the redlines are still far superior. The red lines can be hit nearly anywhere on the face while maintaining outstanding feel. And if feel it what it’s all about, and I do believe that’s the case for me, there’s is simply nothing that has ever compared to the feel of the redlines. Other Hogan’s are great indeed, but just slightly less so than redlines.

Redlines...the finest golf club ever made...period.

All are 4 shafts.

Thru all these years finding the “right” ball for feel has been the biggest challenge as after tour balata went away in the late 90ies, every manufacturer changes their ball design every couple of years. When I find one that has that proper feel, I buy several years worth. Currently I’m playing 3 year old design Wilson soft spin 3piece balls. Next year the ball search begins anew....

My woods are 89 thru 99 apex persimmon, have many both shallow face (fewer of those) and “normal” club head, with both steel shaft apex 4 and gene sheely designed GS Graphite black#4 shafts. Many gold graphite #4s as well that play identical to the blacks shafts. I believe the golf graphite shafts are just the GS black shafts painted gold. Never had any of the Gray graphite shafts. My favorites that I play every day are the GS graphite #4 shafted apex’s from the late 80s to the end of their production. All bought brand new, still have many I’ve yet to put into service. Rarely play a 5 wood, love my 3 and4 woods and use them based on the course I’m playing as to a 3 or 4 wood.

just the ramblings of a 65 year old hogan player that never strayed far off the path of Apex’s, though I gave many a club a proper shake. Today’s clubs have no feel, it’s why they call them clubs. Redlines and my persimmons are precision  instruments.

How do the '73 Apex irons compare to the Redlines?  The Hogan Test concludes that model to have the best in terms of distance and accuracy, and he compared Redlines.  It was the reason why I picked up a set.  I love 'em!  Almost as good as my Rams and custom Staffs. 

[TheDeanAbides]

6 hours ago, EmperorPenguin said:

How do the '73 Apex irons compare to the Redlines?  The Hogan Test concludes that model to have the best in terms of distance and accuracy, and he compared Redlines.  It was the reason why I picked up a set.  I love 'em!  Almost as good as my Rams and custom Staffs. 

That Hogan test seemed flawed to me. He kept in the outlying data from terrible shots and that skewed the results. It was also far too small a sample set. 

[Bruceapex]

All I can say is....it’s all about feel...one can have their own opinion, but feel is unquantifiable. I own grinds, and many other hogan apex and apex like models, like legends and medallions, and nice as they all are, they lack  to one degree or another, that magical quality of feel. Grinds, Ft. Worth forged, legends/medallions all get really close in that ultimate degree of feel, but, they just don’t quite get there.

I also get deadly accuracy, perfect flighting exactly based on the shot I’m hitting, and distance on any given club, model to model, I could care less, as I know, to the yard (or so) just how far the shot is gonna go with my redlines. All my sets were or are brand new, so no wondering if the grooves are too worn, as is the case many times when buying classic that are used.

Here’s what I'm looking for:

1. Feel

2. Trajectory 

3. Tightness of dispersion, otherwise call accuracy 

4. Distance control

5. ....and Feel. Did I mention feel? 

If you have a set of clubs that have everything  above, but lack that elusive magical feel, then I’m uninterested in playing with such a set, regardless to how I might score.

[Joe S]

On 11/19/2020 at 9:52 PM, EmperorPenguin said:

How do the '73 Apex irons compare to the Redlines?  The Hogan Test concludes that model to have the best in terms of distance and accuracy, and he compared Redlines.  It was the reason why I picked up a set.  I love 'em!  Almost as good as my Rams and custom Staffs. 

 

The Golden Ram and 73 Apex both have very short blade lengths.  The Redline is a little longer.    73 has a thinner top line than the Redline, about as thin as you can get, like the Golden Ram.  If you are looking for something more like the Golden Ram then I think you will prefer the 73 to the Redline.  Feel is obviously subjective, but I would say that the 73 is a great feeling iron, softer than Grind and Medallion, comparable to the Redline.  

[EmperorPenguin]

6 hours ago, Joe S said:

 

The Golden Ram and 73 Apex both have very short blade lengths.  The Redline is a little longer.    73 has a thinner top line than the Redline, about as thin as you can get, like the Golden Ram.  If you are looking for something more like the Golden Ram then I think you will prefer the 73 to the Redline.  Feel is obviously subjective, but I would say that the 73 is a great feeling iron, softer than Grind and Medallion, comparable to the Redline.  

I happen to have both sets near me and you are right.  Blade lengths both 3", the '73 Apex top line is 1/8" and the Golden Ram's just a touch under.  I also attest that the '73 Apex is a little softer than the Grinds.

 

In my prime, I played my best with the Golden Rams.  Because of the short face lengths, I was forced to practice to find the tiny sweet spot.  Distances were very consistent, with the 1 iron at 215 and the 2 at 205.  Five of my best shots come from those two clubs and I always remember how they felt when struck solidly in the center.  I struck a solid 3-iron shot the first time playing the '73 Apex and felt heavenly, though I think the Golden Rams had the edge.

[EmperorPenguin]

11 hours ago, Bruceapex said:

Here’s what I'm looking for:

1. Feel

2. Trajectory 

3. Tightness of dispersion, otherwise call accuracy 

4. Distance control

5. ....and Feel. Did I mention feel? 

If you have a set of clubs that have everything  above, but lack that elusive magical feel, then I’m uninterested in playing with such a set, regardless to how I might score.

The 1982 Golden Ram Tour Grind Vibration Matched irons you should consider, as those irons fit the criteria you seek, or at least for me they well satisfy.  I am curious about the Redlines so I may pick up a set to try, buy I recently acquired the '73 Apex irons which I already love, and I think these irons also satisfy your criteria.

[Bruceapex]

I Do have apex’s from the ‘72 to ‘78 years of production. Still have them, in perfect condition to boot.

i had those 82 rams, I bought them new and a year later bought hogan radials. Those rams were very nice but I liked the feel of the radials better, but wasn’t a great golfer then. Kept the rams for quite a # of years, but when I got my 1st set of redlines, I found out what feel really meant...of felt like....never went back.

no denying though, those tour grinds are great clubs.

[twidener]

I've played the '67 PC7's, the '70 1+, '73 Apex, '79 Apex II, PC's and Redlines. I've only kept two of those sets and traded the rest. I still have the '67 PC7's because that was my first set of Hogans and the '73 Apex. They felt better than any of the other sets and my iron play with them was probably the best. I still take them out sometimes.

[fergytheprop]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:19 AM, TheDeanAbides said:

It would be great if someone did a modern version of this photo. This one was created around the time the 99s we're being designed, but digital cameras were in their infancy. It's only 1 megapixel of definition. It would also be great to get the missing irons in there too. 

New poster here not cheap but looks great

 

https://www.benhoganvintage.com/shop/ben-hogan-vintage-iron-poster-24x36---incl-ups-shipping-428p.html

[TheDeanAbides]

10 minutes ago, fergytheprop said:

New poster here not cheap but looks great

 

https://www.benhoganvintage.com/shop/ben-hogan-vintage-iron-poster-24x36---incl-ups-shipping-428p.html

Yes, I've seen it and referred to it often. Henrik did a great job. 

[zhale20]

I’ve got 3 sets of redlines 

 

1 set with Apex 4 1-E 

1 set Apex 5 1-S that I’m terrified to do anything but look at. 
1 set I rebuilt with X7 shafts 

 

I think the redline is one of the best irons out there maybe a smidge to much offset in some of the irons but they look and feel very similar to the individual grinds that I’ve picked up mainly an 8 iron and longer irons 

[Choclab]

If I may bump this...

 

I still love my FG51s, but I've really been wanting to hit some Hogans.  I've owned at one time many of the models since the ones from the 80s, but never the Grinds.  I love that this thread has a lot of comparisons to the Redlines, because a friend just lent me a set that I played for a while 15 or so years ago.  I know some consider it sacrilege, but I've just never loved something about the Redlines.  To be honest, as shallow as it may be, I like the look of the back of the Grind much better (as you'd see them sitting in the bag).

 

I read the thread about the difference in hosel/offset appearance, but is there really that much difference in forgiveness?  The design of them (other than the hosel) looks so similar, with that ridge down near the sole.  Is it that big a difference between the two, or are you guys talking subtle shades? 

 

And also, how would you rate the Grinds overall in forgiveness compared to other Hogan models (or other blades in general)?  I never thought of Hogans as being "forgiving", but the Redlines with their more rounded edges and lower weight distribution are definitely more forgiving than my FG-51s.

 

Thanks!

[AZBandit]

I had a beautiful set of BH Grinds and always felt they belonged with someone who would play them more.

My nephew plays them now and he loves them. He couldn't believe they were so similar to his TM Tiger Woods blades.

I loved the way the Grinds looked but I didn't play as well with them as with my Apexes or Medallions. That's far from scientific - I rotate sets too often to really get a read.

[Joe S]

4 hours ago, Choclab said:

If I may bump this...

 

I still love my FG51s, but I've really been wanting to hit some Hogans.  I've owned at one time many of the models since the ones from the 80s, but never the Grinds.  I love that this thread has a lot of comparisons to the Redlines, because a friend just lent me a set that I played for a while 15 or so years ago.  I know some consider it sacrilege, but I've just never loved something about the Redlines.  To be honest, as shallow as it may be, I like the look of the back of the Grind much better (as you'd see them sitting in the bag).

 

I read the thread about the difference in hosel/offset appearance, but is there really that much difference in forgiveness?  The design of them (other than the hosel) looks so similar, with that ridge down near the sole.  Is it that big a difference between the two, or are you guys talking subtle shades? 

 

And also, how would you rate the Grinds overall in forgiveness compared to other Hogan models (or other blades in general)?  I never thought of Hogans as being "forgiving", but the Redlines with their more rounded edges and lower weight distribution are definitely more forgiving than my FG-51s.

 

Thanks!

 

People go on and on about how forgiving the Redlines are and how hard to hit the Grinds are, but I've never seen it myself.  I love the look of the Redlines, but I think their forgiveness is a myth.  If you like the look of the Grinds you won't have any problem with them.  The design is very similar.  I think they would have similar forgiveness to the other Hogan's of the 70's and 80's.  Any differences would be subtle.  The sweet spot is probably just a tick on the heal side of center, and pretty low on the face compared to some harder to hit blades.  I own all of the sets of Apex blades except the 92's.  I've played them all and hit them all in the simulator.  

[TheDeanAbides]

I found the Grinds to be average in forgiveness. Nowhere near as forgiving as 99s, but more forgiving than the really tough ones like the early models. 

[RolandofGilead]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:19 AM, Choclab said:

but the Redlines with their more rounded edges and lower weight distribution are definitely more forgiving than my FG-51s.

That’s funny - I’ve played both the ‘99 Apex and FG-51 and found them very similar in terms of forgiveness. If anything, I’d give the edge to the Wilsons. Feels are different but each great in its own way. I got my 51s used so maybe they have a special grind, but the leading edge is incredibly forgiving especially compared to older Staff Blade models.

[Choclab]

11 hours ago, RolandofGilead said:

That’s funny - I’ve played both the ‘99 Apex and FG-51 and found them very similar in terms of forgiveness. If anything, I’d give the edge to the Wilsons. Feels are different but each great in its own way. I got my 51s used so maybe they have a special grind, but the leading edge is incredibly forgiving especially compared to older Staff Blade models.

That is interesting.  The 51s will probably always be my all-time favorite iron, mostly just because I love the look in the bag and for some reason I particularly love the look of the pitching wedge at address.  But I do think they're pretty demanding. 

 

To me, I could see where someone would say the old school Hogan irons were just as difficult, but the 99s?  A buddy plays with those often and I think most people (including me) would say the 99s are relatively forgiving for a blade.  It's not so much the leading edge, but that the Hogans have more weight down low.  The 51s have that relatively high muscle.  Which can be good for keeping the ball down, and can be good for me because I play in North Texas and Oklahoma with lots of wind.  But I do think it makes them a little tougher to hit.  

 

Maybe the 51s just agree with you, which is awesome. :)

 

Anyway, I found my set of Grinds so by mid-week or so I'll see what I think.  :) I believe now the Medallions will be one of the very few Hogans I haven't hit.  I never paid attention to those, but the ones with the sunburst (without the gold Hogan medallion) look pretty sweet...

Edited April 21 by Choclab