Overlength Driver Build - Take Two

[Ri_Redneck]

About a year ago, I built an overlength driver using a Cobra F7 head and an Aldila Copper Mamba 70X. I built it at 47.5 and used the lightest weights I could get (2g). I played it for a few months and even though I had some great drives with it, the balance of the club never seemed to suit me. I ended up taking it down to my regular 44.5" length in the end and reweighting the head to feel right. Still a great driver that I keep in one of my playing bags. 

 

After reading/posting in some recent overlength driver threads and watching the "Bryson affect", I decided I wanted to give it another go. This time I'm using a Cobra Speedzone head and a Project-X HZRDUS Yellow 60X. The Speedzone head with adapter and no weights came in at 188 change (2 weight ports) which is the same as the F7 (three weight ports), so the 1 less weight port will allow me to go a shade lighter in headweight with the build. 

 

I did some preliminary testing once my bench was usable. I prepped the tip and trimmed the b u t t to give me 47.5 with the grip. I installed a Master Grip Classic Wrap Midsize (61g) using air and painters tape, then shimmed the head on with fishing line so that it was tight in the playing position. I only have the 6g and 18g weights that came with the driver at the moment, so I removed one of the screws from the weights to see what they weighed. It came in at 2g, so I started with only a screw in each port because I think that's as low as I will be able to go if I modify the weights I have coming. My ST180 Gamer driver is 44.5", 337.2g total weight, D6 with an MOI of 3025.9. The Speedzone with just screws in the ports @ 47.5" was 319.6g total weight, D1.5 (HZRDUS Yellow CB shaft) with an MOI of 3095.1. When waggled it felt a bit light, so I decided to see what I got with the 6g and a screw to mirror the two 4g weights I have coming. This brought the total weight up to 323.5, SW to D5 and the MOI to 3131.5. 

 

I installed the adapter this morning and while it was curing, I tested my other gamer drivers to get a comparison of MOI with the lot. The results are:

ST180 / Kai'Li 70S @ 44.5" D6 - 3025.9

ST190 / OG WB 73S  @ 44.5 D6 - 3044.2

LTD / Hzrdus Blk 7S @ 44.5" D6 - 3072.4

Now, I hit all of these drivers really well, so apparently, the variance in MOI doesn't affect me that much. Who knew?

 

Also during curing, I removed the MG Classic Wrap Midsize and installed an MG Classic Wrap Std w/ buildup tape. When the adapter had cured, I put the shaft in the head with only the 2 screws (4g total). This brought the total weight of the driver to 310g @ 47.5, gave me a D5 SW and an MOI of 3107. Waggling it, the headweight feels better than it did with the midsize grip. Considering the MOI is not much higher than my gamers, this might just work. I will try to get out an hit some balls as soon as I am out of COVID quarantine and I catch a warm day.

 

BT

 

Edited January 9, 2021 by Ri_Redneck

[vadersfather]

Love what you have done here. With all my testing with a 48 inch, it seems to me that total weight is far more important than swing weight. Too heavy at 47.5/48, and regardless of swing weight, it's hard to weild. I have modified my setup as I had a matrix 49 gram shaft +2 inch extension, but because of drastically increased launch, I went to a NV55x +2 inch extension, and now it's at 47.5in. total weight with a winn lite grip is 292gms. And sw is E4. It's a mid trajectory hammer, I love it and love fine tuning this build!✌️

[3_Jack_Par]

Love all the details here, as I’m also interested in trying out a longer driver. A couple of questions:

1. Can you give details/measurements about what you did with the shaft? Any tipping? How much did you cut off the handle? Shaft length before/after installing the adapter? I think it’s usually about 1.75” that you add to the raw shaft length to calculate the total club length, but I’d be glad to hear details from your build.

2. What loft are you playing in your standard-length drivers compared to the overlength?

 

[Howard_Jones]

6 hours ago, vadersfather said:

Love what you have done here. With all my testing with a 48 inch, it seems to me that total weight is far more important than swing weight. Too heavy at 47.5/48, and regardless of swing weight, it's hard to weild. I have modified my setup as I had a matrix 49 gram shaft +2 inch extension, but because of drastically increased launch, I went to a NV55x +2 inch extension, and now it's at 47.5in. total weight with a winn lite grip is 292gms. And sw is E4. It's a mid trajectory hammer, I love it and love fine tuning this build!✌️

Correct, Total weight is more important than SW values, they dont make any sense at all.
Look at at set of Irons with Constant wgt shafts. TOTAL wgt progression is 14 grams pr inch as ideal. The same 4/8" set up as MOI matched would have a progression of about 16 grams pr inch, and a set with AMT White would have about 20 grams pr inch as progression.
Thats IRONS, (7 gr head wgt pr club as SW matched)

When we move to WOODS, we see a Head wgt progression thats 10 Grams from 3W to 5W or 10 grams pr inch, vs 14 grams pr inch in irons. How much we add as shaft wgt progression is up to us, but minimum 2.33 grams pr inch is needed to maintain feel of shaft wgt, and that gives us 12.33 grams when we combine head and shaft.

The math is simple.
Take a driver thats fully tuned up on Total wgt and balance and measure its Total and Play Length. Now we Subtract 12 grams pr inch we wants to go longer, so if we have lets say 337 grams as 44.50" and we wanted to try 47.50" or 3 inch longer, TW target drop is 337 grams Minus (3x12) 36 grams = TOTAL WGT TARGET = 301 Grams as 47.50" (plus 6 grams pr 0.5" shorter, so 47 becomes 308 gr, 46.50" becomes 314 grams)

So your build is not far off this numbers, and with the weight you specify, i suggest you try it "gripped down" to 47.00" and try to judge its FEEL of Total wgt and balance compared to your own 44.50" gamer.

Edited January 10, 2021 by Howard_Jones

[Alan Pllu]

I'm trying the same thing myself with my TS3 driver, the shaft I use in it is a 6.5 75g T1100 evenflow white which I have bought a spare to match and extended to 48 inches. Problem is it has ended up like Thors hammer as expected. 

 

I have taken the weight cartridge out of the head which has made it feel less unwieldy but I'm now concerned about flex due to lighter head weight. 

 

I have played hzrdus yellow 6.5 in my 3 wood which I get on with really well although I felt the head was a little light feeling as the club came with the standard weight in the head. I'm wondering if an uncut hzrdus yellow driver shaft would be a better option to play at 48 inches than the T1100? Might by me some extra head weight whilst feeling not too heavy. 

 

I haven't had a chance to hit the driver with the extended shaft due to course being closed due to weather and lockdown restrictions where I live so still at the tinkering stage. 

 

I've seen a cobra long tom 6.5 degree head for sale that I was considering buying and putting a shaft in to see what happened. 

[keepingsanitythrugolf]

54 minutes ago, Alan Pllu said:

I'm trying the same thing myself with my TS3 driver, the shaft I use in it is a 6.5 75g T1100 evenflow white which I have bought a spare to match and extended to 48 inches. Problem is it has ended up like Thors hammer as expected. 

 

I have taken the weight cartridge out of the head which has made it feel less unwieldy but I'm now concerned about flex due to lighter head weight. 

 

I have played hzrdus yellow 6.5 in my 3 wood which I get on with really well although I felt the head was a little light feeling as the club came with the standard weight in the head. I'm wondering if an uncut hzrdus yellow driver shaft would be a better option to play at 48 inches than the T1100? Might by me some extra head weight whilst feeling not too heavy. 

 

I haven't had a chance to hit the driver with the extended shaft due to course being closed due to weather and lockdown restrictions where I live so still at the tinkering stage. 

 

I've seen a cobra long tom 6.5 degree head for sale that I was considering buying and putting a shaft in to see what happened. 

I’ve mentioned this a few times in other threads, anyone who wants to build a driver thats 47” or longer, build it off of the Long Tom’s blueprint. 
 

The Long tom head had to be reduced to 445cc to shed some weight, I’m quite positive it was for swing weight reasons. 
im actually surprised the long tom even came out with a 6.5 degree option

[Typhoon1992]

Right, as soon as I can get to my favorite golf store I can see if there is a Ping G400LST in 8.5 to get.  I’ve been having great luck with the Max in this experiment.  The smaller size etc... is something I’d like to try to take this further.

[Ri_Redneck]

On 1/10/2021 at 1:41 AM, 3_Jack_Par said:

Love all the details here, as I’m also interested in trying out a longer driver. A couple of questions:

1. Can you give details/measurements about what you did with the shaft? Any tipping? How much did you cut off the handle? Shaft length before/after installing the adapter? I think it’s usually about 1.75” that you add to the raw shaft length to calculate the total club length, but I’d be glad to hear details from your build.

2. What loft are you playing in your standard-length drivers compared to the overlength?

 

I didn't tip the shaft because I am typically comfortable playing a softer flex (smooth tempo). The shaft was 46" raw and when dry fitted into the Cobra head it came to 48 1/16" with no trimming at all. I trimmed only from the b u t t to get the 47.5" finished length. Also, since I was planning to keep the head weight around 192g, the flex of the shaft wasn't affected as much as it would have been with a normal head weight of 198 - 200g. Loft range for the 10.5* head is 9* to 12*. I typically play drivers anywhere from 9 to 10.5 depending on how they launch. Since the HZRDUS Yellow is designed as low launch/low spin, I felt okay going with this loft range. Also, I didn't find I needed to go lower in loft when I was testing the F7 / Copper Mamba driver either and that shaft is considered mid launch/low spin. YMMV though. I plan to get on my local range and/or get in a cold weather round later this week since the temps are going to be mid 40s to low 50s.

 

BT

[3_Jack_Par]

For me, finding a low-lofted head may be the biggest obstacle to doing a build like this. I currently use a 9* Ping G410 LST and I have it set to the -1.5* setting. It hasn't been digitally measured, so who knows what the actual loft is, but I think it might be hard to find a head that won't launch too high. In very limited research, the only heads that seem to be widely available where you can get actual measured loft are tour issue SIMs, and I didn't love that head when I hit it early last year. 

[Ri_Redneck]

Something else I want to recommend to anyone else thinking of trying a long driver build. Be careful what head you choose because many don't give you the ability to adjust the head weight much at all. If all they have is a sliding weight to adjust COG, then going lighter is practically impossible unless you just remove the weight all together. If you can't decrease the head weight, then the only other option is shaft weight. I didn't want to go super light in shaft weight because it get's really difficult to find a performance shaft in the 40-50g range.

 

Something to think about.

 

BT

[Ri_Redneck]

On 1/10/2021 at 7:32 AM, keepingsanitythrugolf said:

I’ve mentioned this a few times in other threads, anyone who wants to build a driver thats 47” or longer, build it off of the Long Tom’s blueprint. 
 

The Long tom head had to be reduced to 445cc to shed some weight, I’m quite positive it was for swing weight reasons. 
im actually surprised the long tom even came out with a 6.5 degree option

I may have done this and not even knew it. After researching the Long Tom, I found they used a 50g Grafalloy shaft and a 26g Winn grip. Several reviewers listed the total weight of the club at 269g, which gives a headweight of 193g. No one listed the swing weight of the club anywhere, but I would presume it would MEASURE out somewhat high considering the light shaft and grip. Unless, of course, the shaft was a counterbalanced design. Regardless, My driver is about 40g heavier and a completely useable SW and MOI for me. 

 

BTW, there are a bunch of Long Tom drivers and driver heads on ebay at he moment for anyone who might want to get one.

 

BT

[keepingsanitythrugolf]

28 minutes ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I may have done this and not even knew it. After researching the Long Tom, I found they used a 50g Grafalloy shaft and a 26g Winn grip. Several reviewers listed the total weight of the club at 269g, which gives a headweight of 193g. No one listed the swing weight of the club anywhere, but I would presume it would MEASURE out somewhat high considering the light shaft and grip. Unless, of course, the shaft was a counterbalanced design. Regardless, My driver is about 40g heavier and a completely useable SW and MOI for me. 

 

BTW, there are a bunch of Long Tom drivers and driver heads on ebay at he moment for anyone who might want to get one.

 

BT

I tried the Long Tom because a friend of mine got one at the time, which inspired me to expirment with a 47” driver, came out to be so heavy like a sledgehammer.

From what I remember, the swing weight wasn’t that heavy on the long tom, relatively speaking. It certainly didn’t feel like a sledgehammer.

Not only was it a super light grip, it was a shorty grip too. Cobra didnt want people to choke down.

[raggal62]

The Long Tom was better suited to golfers with lower swing speeds. The Grafalloy Blackbird shaft, although very light, was very unstable IMO.

[Stuart_G]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:28 PM, Ri_Redneck said:

If all they have is a sliding weight to adjust COG, then going lighter is practically impossible unless you just remove the weight all together.

 

BT

 

Agree head selection is very important with respect to being able to adjust the weight.   But in my mind the ones with the sliding weight are the best because they have the potential to remove the most weight.   And aftermarket weights are typically available for the major OEM head models to replace the stock weight and even if not, most are relatively easy to grind down to lessen the weight by smaller amounts.

[3_Jack_Par]

I've got a shaft on order to give this a try. I'm going with the same shaft (Ventus Black 6x) that I currently use, but tipped a half inch (per recommendation from a contact that I have at Fujikura), and built so that the club will play 47". I checked the head weight of my G410 LST, and it came in at about 204g with the weight and 192 without the weight and with the screw. I'm hoping that will give me a useable swingweight. I had forgotten that I've actually been playing my driver in the -1* flat setting, and not the -1.5 setting, so I will be able to adjust the loft down a little bit, if I want. I have no idea if this will work, but it seems like these are fairly low-risk experiments, since I (or someone else, if I resell it) can always cut down the shaft later if I want.

[Ri_Redneck]

I got out last Thursday afternoon for a cool January round at Triggs Memorial in Providence. I took the new 47.5" Speedzone build and my ST180 which I have been using most of this year. I started the front 9 with only the screws in the Speedzone head (192g head weight - D5) to see how it would compare. Not many folks on the course, so I was able to hit both drivers off all of the par 4s & 5s. Carry was longer with the long driver and end results seemed to be around 15 yds longer depending on fairway contour. Flight was beautiful! High (but not too high) and piercing! Working the ball was more difficult, but I chalk that up to just not being used to hitting it. When I got to the back 9, I replaced the screws with the 4g weights I had ordered. This increased head weight by 4g and I could tell the difference immediately. It was definitely MORE heavy feeling, but not TOO heavy. I didn't notice any more distance or level of control, so the jury is still out on what weights are going to work best. Will hopefully hit it some more this week.

 

BT

[vadersfather]

7 hours ago, Ri_Redneck said:

I got out last Thursday afternoon for a cool January round at Triggs Memorial in Providence. I took the new 47.5" Speedzone build and my ST180 which I have been using most of this year. I started the front 9 with only the screws in the Speedzone head (192g head weight - D5) to see how it would compare. Not many folks on the course, so I was able to hit both drivers off all of the par 4s & 5s. Carry was longer with the long driver and end results seemed to be around 15 yds longer depending on fairway contour. Flight was beautiful! High (but not too high) and piercing! Working the ball was more difficult, but I chalk that up to just not being used to hitting it. When I got to the back 9, I replaced the screws with the 4g weights I had ordered. This increased head weight by 4g and I could tell the difference immediately. It was definitely MORE heavy feeling, but not TOO heavy. I didn't notice any more distance or level of control, so the jury is still out on what weights are going to work best. Will hopefully hit it some more this week.

 

BT

Thx for that, yes I have been tweeking my build as well and I believe, for me, I have found heaven. So my shaft is a nv 55x with a 2 inch extension and a dri tac lite grip. Total weight of shaft in this configuration is 101.4 grams. I stopped using my beloved jetspeed head because I couldn't remove any weight to make a difference. So I grabbed my m1 head to try again, with both weights removed. This head in this configuration is 173 grams. So total build is 274.4 grams at 47.5 inch and  D4 S.W. I'm absolutely killing this thing, and with the shaft profile and light head the shaft is stiffer but feels amazing, dispersion is tighter than with the jetspeed head, mid trajectory and did I mention how amazing it feels!!! To be fair, I was hitting this with the jetspeed head very well also, but dropping another 20+ grams total weight has helped me for sure. Long and lite is my unicorn.✌️✌️ 

[eddiebigeddie]

7 minutes ago, vadersfather said:

Thx for that, yes I have been tweeking my build as well and I believe, for me, I have found heaven. So my shaft is a nv 55x with a 2 inch extension and a dri tac lite grip. Total weight of shaft in this configuration is 101.4 grams. I stopped using my beloved jetspeed head because I couldn't remove any weight to make a difference. So I grabbed my m1 head to try again, with both weights removed. This head in this configuration is 173 grams. So total build is 274.4 grams at 47.5 inch and  D4 S.W. I'm absolutely killing this thing, and with the shaft profile and light head the shaft is stiffer but feels amazing, dispersion is tighter than with the jetspeed head, mid trajectory and did I mention how amazing it feels!!! To be fair, I was hitting this with the jetspeed head very well also, but dropping another 20+ grams total weight has helped me for sure. Long and lite is my unicorn.✌️✌️ 

Can you tell your normal driver set up and yardage vs the new lightweight long bomber. Very curious to try this out myself. 

[vadersfather]

My previous driver was 44 inch, sw d5. I hit it ok but have always fighting my contact drifting out to the toe. And the shorter I went shaft wise, the worse contact became. So I thought what the hell, go the other direction. I haven't had a chance to get on the course yet (weather) but my local at my local range where I have hit a billion balls, I'm 20 yards longer easy. No BS. It's taken alot of experimentation, alot of balls struck, but what I learned is, IMO, total weight is the single most important starting point, long and heavy just doesn't work , at least for me. Don't worry about s.w.  (total weight, shaft profile (because launch is dramatically increased), head loft (you are going to want to go lower here). Again, these are far more important. Start there and then let us know your progress ✌️

Edited January 20, 2021 by vadersfather

[Ri_Redneck]

Yeah, my driver definitely feels better light as possible. 310g seems to be the sweet spot for now, I just wish I could get my hands on some of the 2g (plastic) weights cause I don't like the look with just the screws in it. They're $25 ea from Cobra. I've scoured the interweb and can't find a soul who has a couple to sell. Hard to believe no one has some they don't want.

 

BT

Edited January 20, 2021 by Ri_Redneck

[HISPL]

I’ve tried this pretty successfully with a Motore Tour Spec 5.2 X flex in an older XR16 Sub Zero head, the head is 186g with a 3G and 2g weight in it and I’ve got it playing at 47.5 inches.

 

I’m keen to try some other shaft and head combos. The Tensei 1K 50 TX would be at the top of the list to start with.

[HISPL]

Just found an old UST Mamiya VTS Black 4 X flex in my “stash” brand new and uncut, so I glued a tip on it and will grip it tomorrow ready for Wednesday’s game...

 

Should be interesting to compare this to the Fujikura Motore Tour Spec 5.2 X.

[golf9596]

On 1/10/2021 at 6:34 AM, Alan Pllu said:

I'm trying the same thing myself with my TS3 driver, the shaft I use in it is a 6.5 75g T1100 evenflow white which I have bought a spare to match and extended to 48 inches. Problem is it has ended up like Thors hammer as expected. 

 

I have taken the weight cartridge out of the head which has made it feel less unwieldy but I'm now concerned about flex due to lighter head weight. 

 

I have played hzrdus yellow 6.5 in my 3 wood which I get on with really well although I felt the head was a little light feeling as the club came with the standard weight in the head. I'm wondering if an uncut hzrdus yellow driver shaft would be a better option to play at 48 inches than the T1100? Might by me some extra head weight whilst feeling not too heavy. 

 

I haven't had a chance to hit the driver with the extended shaft due to course being closed due to weather and lockdown restrictions where I live so still at the tinkering stage. 

 

I've seen a cobra long tom 6.5 degree head for sale that I was considering buying and putting a shaft in to see what happened. 

I put the Hzrdus Yellow   Into my G410 head at 48” and saw the sw go to E8..yes it is heavy, but the head is heavy to begin with. When I tried this with  a Sim Max the sw was E0, but I couldn’t time the lighter head..My thought is the counter balance works better with the heavier head weight, so the lead tape will help. I’m going to continue to experiment with a few older shafts I have to find a better match.

[BREWMASTER95060]

http://www.supergolfstore.com/closeout.asp

I have 2 of these 56 deg lie
http://www.supergolfstore.com/cxGrp.asp?n2=CLOSEOUT&id=CX-W340

 

Edited January 24, 2021 by BREWMASTER95060

[BREWMASTER95060]

 https://www.ebay.com/itm/Integra-Viktory-Ti-Driver-Head-Plasma-Coated-Cold-Fired-7-5-9-10-Degree/264421979790?hash=item3d90c7368e:g:hkUAAOSwhn5dSXnD

[BREWMASTER95060]

[BREWMASTER95060]

Edited January 24, 2021 by BREWMASTER95060
add text

[BREWMASTER95060]

2 48"
and 2 51"

drivers

 

[3_Jack_Par]

My overlength project is coming together. I have a shaft on the way (Ventus Black 6x—same as current driver shaft, just longer), and I was fortunate to find a G410 LST head on the BST that was basically perfect for this kind of thing—it was digitally measured at 9 degrees, and is lighter that most heads, and it also came with 4 different weights). The head got here yesterday, and I weighed it to compare to my current driver (also a 9* G410 LST, but I assume the loft is higher than stamped), and without weights, it is 6g lighter, and a couple of the weights are in the 5-6g range, which is a lot less than the 12g weight in my current head, so that allows me to reduce the head weight by 12g, while still having a weight in it, so I’m hoping that the swingweight and loft will work well for this experiment.

[BREWMASTER95060]

I have had 5 head failures

due to metal fatigue on the face body weld seam

4 on the sole one on the crown

2 heads custom made by integra for I Think it was Taylor golf supply that are 100% made of beta titanium then cryo- treated and they have ion coating I have had them for 10+ years.
The failures occurred at around  two or three years old.

How many balls? I didn’t count.
I suspect probably 2000 or 3000 balls. Before the failures you’ll notice the face loses some of its pop because the cracks are like folding a coat hanger over and over and over until it breaks so the seam gets weaker and weaker and drives feel funnier and funnier.

Usually I have four or five long drivers so when I go to the driving range I can spread the impact out I never use my gamer(s)

at the driving range total waste.

I just bought 2 4° and 1 7.5° 100% beta titanium and may be cryo-treated.

All the failures have been on 8° or lower lofts.

Just finished for new drivers 2 at 48 inches and 2 at 50+ inches

Edited January 25, 2021 by BREWMASTER95060