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LST to Max Change


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Hey all,

 

I'm thinking of moving from the G400 LST to the G425 Max. I am an -1 to +0.5 AOA so usually need a lower spin driver head, hence the LST. With the 10 degree head I'll usually launch around 13 with 2400-2600 backspin and 160 ball speed. My miss is leaking or block right, though I have an in-to-out path. After a lot of thought/research/eval, I think its because the LST is flatter at 57*.

 

I went and played a round at a family's course where I was given a G410 plus 9* set to 10* with the tensei orange stock and had one of the best driving days I've ever had. It was point and shoot. The strikes weren't any more centered than usual, though I was hitting it pretty well, but everything found the fairway. And nothing leaked to the right (my least favorite shot shape). I'm guessing part of this was the 58.5* lie angle helping out, and the face being a bit more neutral rather than slightly open like the LST usually is.

 

So, knowing fitting is really hard because of COVID, I wanted to jump into the G425 and use my Drago shaft in the new driver. Given the likely higher launch/more spin of the Max as compared to the LST, how would you adjust loft, if at all, to keep spin to a minimum while getting that improved forgiveness?

Ping G400LST VA Drago 65

Cobra F8+ 3W / 5W VA Slay 75

PXG Gen2 0317x 4H VA Slay 85

PXG Gen3 0311T 5-PW Oban CT 115

Titleist Vokey SM8 51/56/60 Oban CT 115

TaylorMade Spider X

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I left the LST to MAX in the 400 and I will get max in the 425   I will take the extra spin for dramatically improved accuracy and far better misses   Lots of tweaks to make for si

I left the LST to MAX in the 400 and I will get max in the 425

 

I will take the extra spin for dramatically improved accuracy and far better misses

 

Lots of tweaks to make for sidespin on 425 >>> lie, loft, back weigh position, weight of back weight, shaft tipping etc

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Ping G400 Max Graphite Design AD XC 6x

Ping G400 5w Diamana Blue B 80s G400 7w GD PM902s

Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix 92x Apex 5h 26* PX hb6 97x

Mizuno 919T 6 - PW UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 95 f4
Vokey SM2 50*, SM2 TVD 56*M & 59*M, 64* Recoil Proto 95 f4

Piretti Matera Elite
 

 

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@cardoustiedid you go with the same loft in the Max as compared to the LST that you had? Or loft down? I see you're at a 9.9 Max, were you 10 LST?

Ping G400LST VA Drago 65

Cobra F8+ 3W / 5W VA Slay 75

PXG Gen2 0317x 4H VA Slay 85

PXG Gen3 0311T 5-PW Oban CT 115

Titleist Vokey SM8 51/56/60 Oban CT 115

TaylorMade Spider X

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My LST was 10 and my MAX is 10.5, LST I had turned up to 11 degrees all the time 

 

Max I play anywhere from 9.9 to 11.5 depending on conditions


Ping G400 Max Graphite Design AD XC 6x

Ping G400 5w Diamana Blue B 80s G400 7w GD PM902s

Callaway Apex 4h 23* Matrix 92x Apex 5h 26* PX hb6 97x

Mizuno 919T 6 - PW UST Mamiya Recoil Prototype 95 f4
Vokey SM2 50*, SM2 TVD 56*M & 59*M, 64* Recoil Proto 95 f4

Piretti Matera Elite
 

 

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20 hours ago, justcallmemoses said:

I have the g400 lst 10 degree atm. A friend has a g400 max 9 degree thinking of swapping. Haven’t got the chance to hit it yet due to lockdown.

 

Should they spin/launch about the same but more forgiveness in the max?

 

There will be a drastic change in sound and feel going to the Max from the LST as well as the look, the Max will look much bigger.  It will be more forgiving and launch should be close in the 9* Max and 10* LST, but spin rates could be different but a few hundred RPM depending on a lot of things.  Both are great heads, and if you can dial the Max in and get past some of the differences it is a real weapon.

PXG Gen 2 0811 XF 9* HZRDUS Smoke Yellow 6.0

Srixon F85 15* Aldila Rogue silver 70s

Titleist 915h 21* Aldila Rogue black 80s

Srixon Z785 4-P Modus 120s

Titleist Vokey SM6 52/12F, 58/12K  TI S400

Ping Anser Milled 2  34"

Snell MTB black

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I've watched a bunch of reviews of the g425 drivers (the usual suspects - TXG, Rick Shiels, Mark Crossfield etc) and in all their gcquad tests it looks like the g425 max is pretty low spinning in its own right. Their spin numbers for the max are virtually the same as the LST, and they all comment on how stable the max feels. They did mention that the sound of the max was "off". I have just bought the 410 lst to mess around with (used head, off the classifieds here), and am comparing with my epic flash SZ - I've been lured in my the promise of greater stability of the ping drivers (the flash is incredibly long, but my misses are eye-popping with it).

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On 1/13/2021 at 9:42 AM, mxskier said:

Hey all,

 

I'm thinking of moving from the G400 LST to the G425 Max. I am an -1 to +0.5 AOA so usually need a lower spin driver head, hence the LST. With the 10 degree head I'll usually launch around 13 with 2400-2600 backspin and 160 ball speed. My miss is leaking or block right, though I have an in-to-out path. After a lot of thought/research/eval, I think its because the LST is flatter at 57*.

 

I went and played a round at a family's course where I was given a G410 plus 9* set to 10* with the tensei orange stock and had one of the best driving days I've ever had. It was point and shoot. The strikes weren't any more centered than usual, though I was hitting it pretty well, but everything found the fairway. And nothing leaked to the right (my least favorite shot shape). I'm guessing part of this was the 58.5* lie angle helping out, and the face being a bit more neutral rather than slightly open like the LST usually is.

 

So, knowing fitting is really hard because of COVID, I wanted to jump into the G425 and use my Drago shaft in the new driver. Given the likely higher launch/more spin of the Max as compared to the LST, how would you adjust loft, if at all, to keep spin to a minimum while getting that improved forgiveness?

What's your strike pattern like with the driver? Does your mishit tend to be low heel?

OEM Certified Master Fitter

 

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wrong is not enough to make you right."
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5 hours ago, bcflyguy1 said:

What's your strike pattern like with the driver? Does your mishit tend to be low heel?

My miss will be heel-ish and low-ish when I try to add more spine tilt and try to “hit up” on the ball only. Otherwise it’s usually quite centered. But the more I “try” to hit up, the worse. 

Ping G400LST VA Drago 65

Cobra F8+ 3W / 5W VA Slay 75

PXG Gen2 0317x 4H VA Slay 85

PXG Gen3 0311T 5-PW Oban CT 115

Titleist Vokey SM8 51/56/60 Oban CT 115

TaylorMade Spider X

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Lie angle effect is pretty minor on shot shape or direction of a low lofted club like a driver.  It may be helping with the Max vs the lst but I think there are 2 other things to look at.  Lofting up the Max from 9* to 10* closes the face angle slightly.  The other factor is the cog on the max vs the lst.  The cog is closer to the face on the lst models, which makes the face close slower than the more rearward cog of the max.  I'd speculate that the face closure rate, combined with the face angle of the max is what's getting rid of the is shot that leaks right.  If you're buying somewhat blind, I'd buy the 9* head and loft up with the sleeve if needed.

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6 hours ago, doctorgriffo said:

I've watched a bunch of reviews of the g425 drivers (the usual suspects - TXG, Rick Shiels, Mark Crossfield etc) and in all their gcquad tests it looks like the g425 max is pretty low spinning in its own right. Their spin numbers for the max are virtually the same as the LST, and they all comment on how stable the max feels. They did mention that the sound of the max was "off". I have just bought the 410 lst to mess around with (used head, off the classifieds here), and am comparing with my epic flash SZ - I've been lured in my the promise of greater stability of the ping drivers (the flash is incredibly long, but my misses are eye-popping with it).

Let us know what you find out about the Ping/EPIC comparison. I play the Original EPIC SZ, and have yet to find a club that would take it out of the bag. The G400 was close, but I didn't like the 410.

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15 minutes ago, gripandrip said:

Let us know what you find out about the Ping/EPIC comparison. I play the Original EPIC SZ, and have yet to find a club that would take it out of the bag. The G400 was close, but I didn't like the 410.

The shafts are reasonably comparable (tensei av blue 65 vs ping tour 65s, same length) - I have to get the stiff av blue back from a friend I lent it to (instead of the x stiff that is currently in there), then I'll report back....

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I hit both 425 LST and 425 Max yesterday on a simulator with the Ping Tour 70, AV Orange 65, and the Rogue White 70 -all in X flex.  SS is 115-118  with a 0-to +1 AoA. In my small sample, about 75 balls hit, The Max was higher spin than the LST for me about 600-700 on average. I'm going to bring my gamer 400LST in and compare it to the 425 LST with a Ventus  Black 6X and a TPT 14 LKP LT LW and see what happens between those two. 

Ping G400LST 8.5 TPT 14 LKP LT LW Proto
Ping G400 14.5 Tensei Pro Orange 80 TX
Mizuno JPX919 Forged 4i SuperPeening Blue X
Mizuno JPX 919 Tours5-PW Super Peening Blue X
Vokey SM7 raw 52, 56, 60 DGTI-s400
Byron Morgan Proto DH89
Pro -V1x
Jones Utility Trouper-Carry
Ogio Silencer Alphard E-wheels

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3 hours ago, RobS said:

Lie angle effect is pretty minor on shot shape or direction of a low lofted club like a driver.  It may be helping with the Max vs the lst but I think there are 2 other things to look at.  Lofting up the Max from 9* to 10* closes the face angle slightly.  The other factor is the cog on the max vs the lst.  The cog is closer to the face on the lst models, which makes the face close slower than the more rearward cog of the max.  I'd speculate that the face closure rate, combined with the face angle of the max is what's getting rid of the is shot that leaks right.  If you're buying somewhat blind, I'd buy the 9* head and loft up with the sleeve if needed.

oh great point. I could take the G425 LST 9* and bump to 10* and help close the face and that would probably fix it. Keep the low spin that I like/need (especially with my even to downward strike), increases MOI compared to G400 LST, and closes the face a touch. Problem solved.

Ping G400LST VA Drago 65

Cobra F8+ 3W / 5W VA Slay 75

PXG Gen2 0317x 4H VA Slay 85

PXG Gen3 0311T 5-PW Oban CT 115

Titleist Vokey SM8 51/56/60 Oban CT 115

TaylorMade Spider X

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