The biggest reasons ams don’t get better. Butch Harmon...

[Krt22]

2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

It was pretty simple, all you had to do was find one photo of one player at the top of the backswing..

 

I don't approve of derailing threads, I was answering someone else with my experience of playing with good amateurs and pro's. This chap is quite good, and one of the longest..

Your "experience" really means next to nothing if you can't spot the differences between those two positions, they would be dramatically different in the face on view due. You are focusing too much are the arms and ignoring everything else. If Monte were to start a thread "the second biggest reason ams don't get better", it would be filled with notions exactly like this. 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, hybrid25 said:

I have a friend that exemplifies the OP's post, and then some. He's got one of the worst swings I have ever seen, has taken a set of lessons twice over the last 3 years. He starts out by utilizing what his instructor taught him, then after a few weeks later he's back to his old ways. The set of lessons he takes last a couple months, and i'm sure it costs plenty. I mean, why take lessons if you don't plan on following through with them by incorporating what you have been taught? What makes it worse is he makes every excuse for his wayward shots, it's never about the quality of his swing. It really is a comedy, crash and burn type of situation. I use to try to encourage him to work with what his instructor taught him, but no more, I just enjoy watching the train wreck.

Do you think that it is possible that the instructors that your friend has been to are not giving him the swing instruction that he actually needs?  Lack of structure maybe?  Or possibly your friend is simply not capable of executing the mechanics that the instructors have been trying to teach him?

Edited January 25, 2021 by Nels55

[hybrid25]

1 hour ago, Nels55 said:

Do you think that it is possible that the instructors that your friend has been to are not giving him the swing instruction that he actually needs?  Lack of structure maybe?  Or possibly your friend is simply not capable of executing the mechanics that the instructors have been trying to teach him?

Well, I'm not sure what the instructors are teaching him, I was there, but he talked about it as if his entire swing was worked on. He went to him twice so I guess he has liked him. As far as his capability, I think where he lacks the most is in the area of stubborness, he's got too much of it.

[bonvivantva]

11 hours ago, tm3 said:

I don't know Miles and am not taking up for him, just expounding on my prior post where I said that I went in with more of the swing in the "after" pic and the teaching pro worked to get me more like the "before" pic ......

 

The red flag came out in lesson #1 when Pro said that "all of the best players on tour" tuck their right elbows in tight to their sides as they take the club behind them on a flat plane.  I didn't know a lot, but I knew enough to know that was wrong and should have bailed.  But I had already paid for a series of lessons, so I decided to stick it out -- after all, what harm could there be?  Oh, boy.

 

Moral of the story redux:  Before you work long and hard at making a change (as Butch and Monte say needs to be done), be sure that the instructor knows what he is talking about.  IMO some of them simply don't.

I've been to two instructors before the one I see now that definitely turned me off of golf lessons in general.  I still think I've got a pretty healthy skepticism, but the guy I see now has as good of credentials as you can have, and I think we work well together.  In any event, I'm confident in his abilities and his advice.

 

I'm inclined to agree with @Krt22.  I've shot the best round of my life playing the before swing, but trust me, it's not a consistent or easy way to swing.  I really don't think it's reasonable to say it's better than the after.  I've looked at a few Jon Rahm swings, and I can't say I see any comparison.  His swing doesn't suck inside or get near as deep as my before picture.  I appreciate that it's an abbreviated length backswing, but even so, his position at the top with an iron looks more like the middle ground between my before and after than one or the other.  If you could see video of my swing, I don't think anyone would be advocating for the before.

 

 

[Krt22]

@bonvivantva trust the process and recognize it’s like battling a two headed dragon. Fixing the backswing and then learning to properly transition from there, not easy, even for pros, which is largely the point of this thread. 
 

Have you watched Montes efficient swing series? If no, watch it. If yes, rewatch it.  It goes into detail as to why the your after is a better place to start(knee flex change, pelvis tilts, extension of the spine, etc). It also details how learning to transition from there can be challenging. Understanding why something is fundamentally better can go a long way IMHO

[11bravoveteran]

If you’re going to take lessons from a coach you should be in it for the long haul not a quick fix. Changes take time. It’s like learning guitar or an instrument. It takes lots of reps and practice in between lessons to learn a piece. You just don’t walk in and say, “teach me eruption in 30 mins...”

[bonvivantva]

38 minutes ago, 11bravoveteran said:

If you’re going to take lessons from a coach you should be in it for the long haul not a quick fix. Changes take time. It’s like learning guitar or an instrument. It takes lots of reps and practice in between lessons to learn a piece. You just don’t walk in and say, “teach me eruption in 30 mins...”

The coach I'm seeing sells lessons individually, or in a series of 7 lessons.  When it warms up, I intend to get a 7 lesson package, but really I only initially posted on this thread because I did not know, nor had it been suggested that I space out my lessons by 4-6 weeks.  Last year I had two lessons scheduled 2 weeks apart, but the second got cancelled due to weather.  My instructor books up fairly far in advance, so check ins are not easy last minute.  I still think I'm going to book the first two or three lessons only three weeks apart just for my own sanity.  Then after that I'll take y'alls advice and space them out by about 4-6 weeks depending on availability.  

[ferrispgm]

1 hour ago, bonvivantva said:

The coach I'm seeing sells lessons individually, or in a series of 7 lessons.  When it warms up, I intend to get a 7 lesson package, but really I only initially posted on this thread because I did not know, nor had it been suggested that I space out my lessons by 4-6 weeks.  Last year I had two lessons scheduled 2 weeks apart, but the second got cancelled due to weather.  My instructor books up fairly far in advance, so check ins are not easy last minute.  I still think I'm going to book the first two or three lessons only three weeks apart just for my own sanity.  Then after that I'll take y'alls advice and space them out by about 4-6 weeks depending on availability.  

It may help to make some backswings to the desired position and hold that for a few seconds.  Go really slow back and hold it at the top for 3 seconds.  Do this 2 or 3 times then hit the ball at half speed.  Another thing that helps...there is an app called Mirror Vision Golf.  If you have an ipad or note pad you can stream or record video from your phone to the pad...this helps a lot as well.

[cav5]

Its so hard to get even decent at this game. To me that is comfortably breaking 85 at your home course from the mens tee 99% of the time. You have to figure out how you learn. I've seen a few pros over the years and am actively taking lessons BUT I am a trial and error guy. I put swing thoughts through the ringer until they work. There a so many nuances to this game.