The biggest reasons ams don’t get better. Butch Harmon...

[bonvivantva]

15 minutes ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The other analogy I always use is weight loss.

 

If I went to a trainer and nutritionist and said, “I did what they said all week and I didn’t lose a weight......or I only went from 240 to 238 and I want to be 200......” without exception everyone would think I had lost my mind, but those are exactly the ways people react to their swing and game improving.  Golfers will be upset with themselves when a 30 yard slice goes down to 10 as they say, “It’s still slicing and I want to hit a draw.”  This is after 3 swings of trying a new movement.

 

 

 

I don’t take it as an insult, I react knowing there will be no improvement with that mindset. 

I genuinely do get what you're saying here.  And I'm sure the majority of students are unrealistic expectations and aren't willing to put in the work.  But what would you say to me?  I haven't broken 90 since I made that backswing change, and that doesn't bother me a bit.  My only goal is a make better contact so I can enjoy golf more.  I'm practicing a minimum of 6 hours a week, often twice that, and I'm playing about once a week or at least once every two.  If an instructor told me they just wanted to focus on one change for 6 months, I wouldn't have an issue with that at all.  But when you're saying I'm on my own for 6 weeks at a time, I'm thinking that's 6 weeks in which I very well may be getting worse, ingraining new bad habits, etc.  I'm not asking anyone to swing the club for me.  I just saying that if I'm paying good money for guidance, 6 weeks seems like too long without a check in.  When I'm able to schedule lessons again this spring, you really think I should schedule them 6 weeks apart?  That's the ideal interval regardless of skill level, amount of weekly practice, etc.?

Edited January 21, 2021 by bonvivantva

[MonteScheinblum]

I said 4-6 unless they’re struggling.  If someone was struggling, I’d have them come back because I didn’t explain the change in a way that made sense and need to explain it differently.  As was said, you need to video to get feedback.

Edited January 21, 2021 by MonteScheinblum

[bonvivantva]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I said 4-6 unless they’re struggling.  If someone was struggling, I’d have them come back because I didn’t explain the change in a way that made sense and need to explain it differently.  

Right, 4-6. 

 

This is not sarcasm:  What do you mean by struggling?  Does not being sure if anything is working count, or only just really being sure you're worse off than before?  Or something else?

[MonteScheinblum]

If you’re getting worse.  You shouldn’t get worse or the change  or perception of the change is wrong.

[bonvivantva]

1 minute ago, MonteScheinblum said:

If you’re getting worse.  You shouldn’t get worse or the change  or perception of the change is wrong.

That makes sense.  I really have only had a few weeks over the three months since that lesson in which I was worse than usual/before.  One time I think I was sway back too far and unable to recenter.  Another time I think I was either starting out too far inside, or forcing the club too far from the inside and hitting it fat.  The third time was when I realized I was dipping down again and my arms were low, inside and the swing was shallow like before.  Again, I could be wrong about all of these, but that's my take.  The first week and a half I really did feel like I was hitting the ball not just better, but differently than before.  Since then, it's been 90% hitting it about the same, maybe 10% lost.  But I really don't feel like I've ever gotten back to hitting it as well as the first week and a half.  Right now, I'm hitting it well, but I'm worried it's just a period of better compensation.

 

When I can start lessons up again, I'll try to space them 4 weeks apart.  I really do appreciate your insight. 

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, bonvivantva said:

 

Given the analogy, realistically, what happens is one of three things.  The person just stands around (not practicing or playing enough), the person walks in a direction that gets them closer to the destination, or the person walks in a direction that puts them farther away from the destination.  

 

Even if I can't have learned or fully incorporated what I've been taught in two or three weeks, y'all have to see the desire to just know that the direction you're walking to towards and not away from the destination.

 

Now I know someone is going to say what I should be doing in walking in each direction until I can see if the destination is on the horizon.  That's just how improvement works.  You have to exhaust failed options to find success.  But if the whole point of an instructor is to improve more efficiently, maybe there is something to having that person double check that you're not constantly going down the same wrong path, holding the map upside down, etc.  There are 360 degrees you can go, and an infinite number inbetween.  So that's a lot of possible wrong directions.  Then consider that there is no guarantee you won't make the same mistake twice...

 

This is essentially what I'm getting at.  I'm not saying I have the answers, or that a lesson once a week is ideal.  I'm just saying that no contact for 6 weeks is a hard pill to swallow.

I disagree with the analogy. Basically, all golfers stay in the same place. It's really hard to do something fundamentally different that is better. It is equally hard to change your motor pattern to something that is worse. An instructor serves the purpose of making sure all your suffering is for the better.

[CasualLie]

Before you can judge whether 6 weeks is too long in between instructor visits, answer this:

 

1. What skill level are you starting?  Total beginner, not even sure how to grip a club, hit center of the face and get the ball to go 5 yards?  Then sure, take weekly lessons.  But if you have been playing awhile and already developed a swing, for better or worse, then you do not need an instructor every week.

 

2. How much are you going to work on your swing?  If you won't even do rehearsals at home for more than 5 minutes a week, and the range maybe once a week, then forget seeing an instructor in 6 weeks, put in some effort first.  If your instructor gave you a drill you liked during the lesson, then use it, 500 times over several sessions.  5 minutes on the drill and then never do it again is not helpful at all.

 

3. What are you doing during the lesson to make sure you retain the info?  Make a video of the key concept.  Bring a notebook.  Write down your feels.  What are you doing to monitor your practice?  Get out at the iphone and use the video.  Do it.  Do it at home.

 

When I started playing golf, just off the top of my head, I must have seen my first instructor 20 times in less than a year.  I learned very little.  Got a little better, but not really.  I have seen Monte maybe 5 times total and 2 clinics over 4 years.  Between those visits, a few videos emailed as quick check ins, and his recorded videos, plenty to work on, and I am a far better golfer.

[betarhoalphadelta]

15 minutes ago, CasualLie said:

2. How much are you going to work on your swing?  If you won't even do rehearsals at home for more than 5 minutes a week, and the range maybe once a week, then forget seeing an instructor in 6 weeks, put in some effort first.  If your instructor gave you a drill you liked during the lesson, then use it, 500 times over several sessions.  5 minutes on the drill and then never do it again is not helpful at all.

 

 

@MonteScheinblum You've tossed out the 4-6 week number. What is a reasonable amount of practice needed to make that 4-6 cadence make sense? Would more practice reduce the time, and would less practice increase the time? 

 

I would think that if you're practicing hard and often, you might still not want an interval less than 4 weeks because even regular practice can only do so much. But for folks with day jobs and responsibilities who can only get to the range maybe twice a week and play on the course every 2 weeks or so, do you extend that 6 weeks out to 8 or more? 

[MonteScheinblum]

1 minute ago, betarhoalphadelta said:

 

@MonteScheinblum You've tossed out the 4-6 week number. What is a reasonable amount of practice needed to make that 4-6 cadence make sense? Would more practice reduce the time, and would less practice increase the time? 

 

I would think that if you're practicing hard and often, you might still not want an interval less than 4 weeks because even regular practice can only do so much. But for folks with day jobs and responsibilities who can only get to the range maybe twice a week and play on the course every 2 weeks or so, do you extend that 6 weeks out to 8 or more? 

That’s a general time frame.  Practice time and progress up or down affects the time frame.  
 

I have had people come back 2-3 days later as left to their own devices, they ruined themselves.  I have people who come every 6 months to a year and do just fine.

[Krt22]

1 hour ago, bonvivantva said:

That makes sense.  I really have only had a few weeks over the three months since that lesson in which I was worse than usual/before.  One time I think I was sway back too far and unable to recenter.  Another time I think I was either starting out too far inside, or forcing the club too far from the inside and hitting it fat.  The third time was when I realized I was dipping down again and my arms were low, inside and the swing was shallow like before.  Again, I could be wrong about all of these, but that's my take.  The first week and a half I really did feel like I was hitting the ball not just better, but differently than before.  Since then, it's been 90% hitting it about the same, maybe 10% lost.  But I really don't feel like I've ever gotten back to hitting it as well as the first week and a half.  Right now, I'm hitting it well, but I'm worried it's just a period of better compensation.

 

When I can start lessons up again, I'll try to space them 4 weeks apart.  I really do appreciate your insight. 

Id say you are suffering a bit from paralysis by analysis and while also trying to self-diagnose when you perhaps don't quite have the tool chest for that quite yet. You keep saying "I Think", which is death if you are really trying to improve. You should have a set goal with each swing (assuming you video it) and you only really being looking at that singular item, such that it's a pass/fail criteria. You are a perfect candidate for Monte's game improvement plan or working out something similar with your local instructor. 

[dblinden]

Good discussion. Here's another thing to consider re: learning curves. Assuming you have a dedicated student who is willing to put in the necessary work, there is going to be a difference in results secondary to skill level. I would anticipate that a high handicap amateur would actually make faster initial progress than say a 5 handicap. More lower hanging fruit to easily address in the former group. The more one improves, the work is just that much more demanding  to achieve even small incremental gains.  

[bonvivantva]

56 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

Id say you are suffering a bit from paralysis by analysis and while also trying to self-diagnose when you perhaps don't quite have the tool chest for that quite yet. You keep saying "I Think", which is death if you are really trying to improve. You should have a set goal with each swing (assuming you video it) and you only really being looking at that singular item, such that it's a pass/fail criteria. You are a perfect candidate for Monte's game improvement plan or working out something similar with your local instructor. 

I don't disagree with you about my lack of qualifications to analyze my swing.  I was trying to highlight that fact because I think I need more guidance, or more specifically, more regular guidance.  That's kind of exactly my point.  If I video my swing and my position looks ok at the top, then I have no idea what I need to work on.  As I explained previously, I tried a bunch of stuff until something seemed to work, but as we all know, trying to change one thing can lead to more flaws/changes.  When I was trying to make sure I didn't dip and that I got my arms up where they belong, I think I let the club start to creep back inside.  Another time I think I let myself start swaying back.  Then when I started trying to put out those fires, the original fire blazed back up and suddenly I'm not even maintaining my height which is the main thing the instructor wanted me to work on.  

 

I feel like if I'm saying I get lost on my own or I tend to mis/over analyze, y'all are saying, 'don't think too much, you're not qualified', but on the other side of the coin, if I say, "I could probably benefit from more frequent guidance", the reaction is, 'you have to do the work yourself, we can't hand hold you through it'.  I'm not trying to say this is anyone's particular stance, just the general vibe I'm getting.  Trying to seek out advice on wrx is like seeking the approval of 1000 dads at the same time.  Is this what is wrong with my swing? - take a lesson stop asking stupid questions.  Ok, I'm taking lessons..., no not every other week, every 4-6, ok no problem, well now you're over analyzing in between lessons!  You just can't win.

 

In any event, I'm going to take Monte's advice and shoot for every 4 weeks.  If I'm feeling lost, which I think is pretty likely on occasion, I'll try to change it to say every 3 weeks or so, whatever works, or whatever I can fit in.  If nothing else, it's nice to know that every week or even every other week lessons is not ideal long term.  I think I can justify the cost of lessons once a month or less a lot easier long term than every week.

Edited January 21, 2021 by bonvivantva

[Krt22]

40 minutes ago, bonvivantva said:

I don't disagree with you about my lack of qualifications to analyze my swing.  I was trying to highlight that fact because I think I need more guidance, or more specifically, more regular guidance.  That's kind of exactly my point.  If I video my swing and my position looks ok at the top, then I have no idea what I need to work on.  As I explained previously, I tried a bunch of stuff until something seemed to work, but as we all know, trying to change one thing can lead to more flaws/changes.  When I was trying to make sure I didn't dip and that I got my arms up where they belong, I think I let the club start to creep back inside.  Another time I think I let myself start swaying back.  Then when I started trying to put out those fires, the original fire blazed back up and suddenly I'm not even maintaining my height which is the main thing the instructor wanted me to work on.  

 

I feel like if I'm saying I get lost on my own or I tend to mis/over analyze, y'all are saying, 'don't think too much, you're not qualified', but on the other side of the coin, if I say, "I could probably benefit from more frequent guidance", the reaction is, 'you have to do the work yourself, we can't hand hold you through it'.  I'm not trying to say this is anyone's particular stance, just the general vibe I'm getting.  

 

In any event, I'm going to take Monte's advice and shoot for every 4 weeks.  If I'm feeling lost, which I think is pretty likely on occasion, I'll try to change it to say every 3 weeks or so, whatever works, or whatever I can fit in.  If nothing else, it's nice to know that every week or even every other week lessons is not ideal long term.  I think I can justify the cost of lessons once a month or less a lot easier long term than every week.

That's why I am advocating something like Monte's game improvement plan, either with him or working out something similar with your local instructor. Especially if you If you know yourself to get lost or off track relatively easily, and aren't taking video on a regular basis. Weekly or bi-weekly feedback can be very valuable, without needing a full on lesson. It takes the guess work out of things and can prevent you from getting off track , it also incentivizes you to be more diligent with video. 

[Sean2]

3 hours ago, MonteScheinblum said:

The other analogy I always use is weight loss.

 

If I went to a trainer and nutritionist and said, “I did what they said all week and I didn’t lose a weight......or I only went from 240 to 238 and I want to be 200......” without exception everyone would think I had lost my mind, but those are exactly the ways people react to their swing and game improving.  Golfers will be upset with themselves when a 30 yard slice goes down to 10 as they say, “It’s still slicing and I want to hit a draw.”  This is after 3 swings of trying a new movement.

 

 

 

I don’t take it as an insult, I react knowing there will be no improvement with that mindset. 

I imagine at times it gets a bit frustrating for you. Another reason I think most us don't improve is we are always tinkering with our swings. How can we hope to achieve any consistency if we are constantly tinkering? It seems we would be better served finding something that has the potential to work and stick with it, instead of constantly changing things up. 

[baudi]

So how many red pills do instructors prescribe?

In the end the player should be smart enough to pick the blue pill and say good bye.

Not saying that anything goes  -on the contrary-  but it is smart to recollect thoughts and redefine the actuals.

If later in time, the player is looking for reflection; the roles may have been switched and the instructor is to choose between a red and a blue pill.  

[virtuoso]

27 minutes ago, Sean2 said:

I imagine at times it gets a bit frustrating for you. Another reason I think most us don't improve is we are always tinkering with our swings. How can we hope to achieve any consistency if we are constantly tinkering? It seems we would be better served finding something that has the potential to work and stick with it, instead of constantly changing things up. 

Most times, when someone thinks they are trying something different.....it's really not different. I've had students show me their two "go-to" swings. On video, they look identical.

[MonteScheinblum]

20 minutes ago, Sean2 said:

I imagine at times it gets a bit frustrating for you. Another reason I think most us don't improve is we are always tinkering with our swings. How can we hope to achieve any consistency if we are constantly tinkering? It seems we would be better served finding something that has the potential to work and stick with it, instead of constantly changing things up. 

I make that joke at clinics al the time.

 

”How many of you do this on 5 consecutive swings?  I hooked that one, need to hold off the release.  I thinned that, need to stay down.  I hit that one fat, need to get to my left side.  I sliced that, need to release it.  That was my yardage and I came up short, need to make a better turn on that one.”

 

Good luck with that, and sadly, that is not only common, people actually think they can make the following happened: Discern the actual root cause of the problem.  Come up with the proper fix and put that fix in on the very next shot.  Truth be told, all of those swings look the same as does your Tiger stinger and your Steve Stricker no hinge wedge.  

 

One of the greatest skills a golfer can attain is, “Boy was that a bad shot, I need to do better on the next.”  Versus the merry go round of trying to self correct after every bad shot, which hat produces a more contrived version of your regular swing.

 

Ive only been frustrated with the person only a handful of times and only when they were just rude know it all’s.

 

My frustration is always FOR the golfer, not at them.  I know their perceptions and routines are not allowing them to improve.

 

Not judging, I do all the same dumb sh!t stuff, but it’s worse.  I should know better.

[Krt22]

10 minutes ago, virtuoso said:

Most times, when someone thinks they are trying something different.....it's really not different. I've had students show me their two "go-to" swings. On video, they look identical.

When I do dedicated video sessions, I have ~30 videos that look nearly the same and maybe 3-4 where I am making some progress. Rinse and repeat a few days later lol

[CasualLie]

Lately, I have become pretty good at only 1 of 2 reactions to bad shots on the course, as opposed to the analysis of need to do X (insert swing remedy).

 

After a bad shot and I say to myself something along the lines of "and that's what you get for trying a shot you have no business trying".  Meaning, it was bad strategy.  It was nothing to do with ability or how much the shot was practiced, it was knowing it was low percentage going in, and being too stubborn and trying it anyway.  

 

Or, I say to myself "and that's what you get for not being committed to the shot".  This is my catchall reaction to cover both mishits because it is just golf, and golf is hard, as well as stopping myself from analyzing the swing.  It's more about reminding myself for the next shot, stick to the routine, stay committed, and whatever happens happens.

 

Am I perfect at sticking to these reactions?  Not even close, but getting better.  

[virtuoso]

As a fitter/instructor, my common frustrations:

 

Golfer kinda cares, but has talent/coordination...but I actually care more about his golf swing than he does, and he could be pretty darn good, but won't quite go along for the ride.

 

Golfer really cares, but has zero coordination...zero....and I can only really help him so much. Heartbreaking....and I can't really tell him the truth without discouraging him.

 

Golfer tries an idea, mishits it, and then says he's thinking about too many things. I've only told him to try one thing. If one is too many, we are going to have some issues.

 

Golfer asks me a question and he looks away when I'm answering him, ie, he has ADHD, and my answer doesn't matter.

 

I tell a student, in excruciating detail why he has a certain type of miss. He then accidentally demonstrates the miss...and says, "Well, I got too quick on that one." No, that's not why. I just told you why.

 

Old lady tells me her only problem is distance. She is extremely accurate and hits EVERY fairway. I'd be impressed with that if she could even reach the left or right edge of the fairway.

 

College player told me he is so frustrated because he doesn't think his shafts fit him. They are causing all his inconsistency. He explains some shots he hit in a round. Leaves out score. I ask score. He says 96. Yeah, I'm sure the X100 is way better than the PX 6.5.

 

College player wants me to grind all the bounce off his 60 degree while I watch him dig a trench with 10 degrees of shaft lean...

 

 

[virtuoso]

4 minutes ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

The proximal reason people don’t get better is books like Harmon’s Four Cornerstones.

 

The distal reason is that good golfers are literally unable to access their “knowledge” of the processes they employ that have been automaticized, and generally lack the self awareness to understand that.  To repeat, skills that have been automaticized are inaccessible consciously to the practitioner, who does not even remember learning them.  Which is also why pros take a long time to adjust, another facet of the skill being automaticized.

 

A golf teacher who was interested in teaching would look it up.  Instead, blame the victim.

Anyone interested in helping us golf teachers figure out all the new fangled ways would use plain language and not confuse us with your fancy talk. 

[Hawkeye77]

9 minutes ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

The proximal reason people don’t get better is books like Harmon’s Four Cornerstones.

 

The distal reason is that good golfers are literally unable to access their “knowledge” of the processes they employ that have been automaticized, and generally lack the self awareness to understand that.  To repeat, skills that have been automaticized are inaccessible consciously to the practitioner, who does not even remember learning them.  Which is also why pros take a long time to adjust, another facet of the skill being automaticized.

 

A golf teacher who was interested in teaching would look it up.  Instead, blame the victim.

I'm no teacher but I looked it up - it's not a word.  😲

 

You just mean folks have habits?

Edited January 21, 2021 by Hawkeye77

[virtuoso]

35 minutes ago, Krt22 said:

When I do dedicated video sessions, I have ~30 videos that look nearly the same and maybe 3-4 where I am making some progress. Rinse and repeat a few days later lol

 Some of my best looking swings are when I've hit a foot behind the ball.

[Krt22]

26 minutes ago, NotThatGuyorAmI? said:

The proximal reason people don’t get better is books like Harmon’s Four Cornerstones.

 

The distal reason is that good golfers are literally unable to access their “knowledge” of the processes they employ that have been automaticized, and generally lack the self awareness to understand that.  To repeat, skills that have been automaticized are inaccessible consciously to the practitioner, who does not even remember learning them.  Which is also why pros take a long time to adjust, another facet of the skill being automaticized.

 

A golf teacher who was interested in teaching would look it up.  Instead, blame the victim.

This is pure malarkey, take your shenanigans elsewhere. 

[jobin]

Well, proximal and distal refer to near and far from some named center.  That i learned from insect anatomy.  Some say 'low hanging fruit' to express things near and easier to reach; that would be proximal to our golf brain.

 

But i'm still pondering Monte's meaning of my, and maybe yours,

' thesis driven paradigm' golf swing.!

 

[TGSherriff]

This is very true. I think the common refrain of searching for "consistency" is another trap. I was reflecting and perhaps feeling bad about the fact that I got down to a 9 three years ago, have taken lessons, hit the ball better and have gone back up to a 12 as of end of this past season.  I am in Canada so get 4 good months of golf if lucky, which usually averages less than 20 handicap rounds a year. Limited winter practice....so why am I upset about 3 strokes on the cap?  I really thought about this a couple weeks ago after English won after an almost 8 year drought. If a guy who is absolutely flushing it can have such variance in his game, I should not get upset about the same in mine. 

[gentles]

1 hour ago, MonteScheinblum said:

I make that joke at clinics al the time.

 

”How many of you do this on 5 consecutive swings?  I hooked that one, need to hold off the release.  I thinned that, need to stay down.  I hit that one fat, need to get to my left side.  I sliced that, need to release it.  That was my yardage and I came up short, need to make a better turn on that one.”

 

Good luck with that, and sadly, that is not only common, people actually think they can make the following happened: Discern the actual root cause of the problem.  Come up with the proper fix and put that fix in on the very next shot.  Truth be told, all of those swings look the same as does your Tiger stinger and your Steve Stricker no hinge wedge.  

 

One of the greatest skills a golfer can attain is, “Boy was that a bad shot, I need to do better on the next.”  Versus the merry go round of trying to self correct after every bad shot, which hat produces a more contrived version of your regular swing.

 

Ive only been frustrated with the person only a handful of times and only when they were just rude know it all’s.

 

My frustration is always FOR the golfer, not at them.  I know their perceptions and routines are not allowing them to improve.

 

Not judging, I do all the same dumb sh!t stuff, but it’s worse.  I should know better.

 

Your last comment is interesting - despite knowing all the above, you still make the same mistakes and adjustments. What chance do the rest of us have then, seriously?!

 

I'm curious Monte, have you ever worked with a typical AM who can actually take an open minded, longer term view (i.e. do all of the positive things you're recommending in this thread)? What did their improvement path look like?  

 

Did you ever have any luck really changins someone's mentality ? Not trying to critique just want to understand if there is anyone out there who really thinks like this?

 

 

 

 

[MonteScheinblum]

38 minutes ago, gentles said:

 

Your last comment is interesting - despite knowing all the above, you still make the same mistakes and adjustments. What chance do the rest of us have then, seriously?!

 

I'm curious Monte, have you ever worked with a typical AM who can actually take an open minded, longer term view (i.e. do all of the positive things you're recommending in this thread)? What did their improvement path look like?  

 

Did you ever have any luck really changins someone's mentality ? Not trying to critique just want to understand if there is anyone out there who really thinks like this?

 

 

 

 

I was using some hyperbole there. The actual mistake I make is thinking I can over come lack of time put into my game with knowledge and skill.
 

Everyone who succeeds at making their game better has modest short term goals and extravagant long term goals.

 

I change the way people look at their swing and game every day.  It’s like any other subject.  Some people you put the facts in front of them and they change their beliefs instantly.  Others, you can provide a mountain of evidence and you have no chance.

[parforme]

I believe most of us ams realize our swings are a compilation of compensations we have learned over the years for various swing faults.  Personally I would love to have that "weird" feeling that finally results in me having a swing like Louis Oostuizen (or numerous other great swings) but that is a huge leap.  I believe this was the same problem faced by Hank Haney after he spent weeks working on a number of celebrity golf swings on the Golf Channel, which at the end of the show looked just as bad, if not worse, than when they started.  Haney couldn't do it.  It has to be more than muscle memory.

 

I think the first instructor who can break that code that will allow you to actually start with a clean slate and make those necessary changes, will be a multi-millionaire overnight, but I am not even sure that is possible.  I certainly haven't met him/her.

 

 

[Nels55]

2 hours ago, parforme said:

I believe most of us ams realize our swings are a compilation of compensations we have learned over the years for various swing faults.  Personally I would love to have that "weird" feeling that finally results in me having a swing like Louis Oostuizen (or numerous other great swings) but that is a huge leap.  I believe this was the same problem faced by Hank Haney after he spent weeks working on a number of celebrity golf swings on the Golf Channel, which at the end of the show looked just as bad, if not worse, than when they started.  Haney couldn't do it.  It has to be more than muscle memory.

 

I think the first instructor who can break that code that will allow you to actually start with a clean slate and make those necessary changes, will be a multi-millionaire overnight, but I am not even sure that is possible.  I certainly haven't met him/her.

 

 

Possibly Mike Adams or Dr. Wright (Wright Balance) are on the right track finding the swing that will work for a golfers body type.  I do believe that trying to learn a 'pro' swing that does not work for your particular body and mental setup is a futile exercise.