The Stack System

[UrethaneMane]

34 minutes ago, Jlocke22 said:

You will be ripping it even further in no time. So much untapped potential and even working with an online coach or local and you will be golden. Keep us posted man and enjoy the ride!

Yessir, thanks. Glad I found golfwrx, great community with cool people. I’ve learned a lot from just reading different posts on here.

[Jlocke22]

Update: 

 

Still been keeping up with the new Neural program and seeing some progress or numbers close to what I was seeing at my peaks of Full Speed Spectrum program. 

 

As many have also shared on their journey, I started to have some tempo issues, less than desired launch characteristics, and combining with some swing tweaks it has been some less than desired results. 

 

This past weekend was my first real test as I have only gotten in 27 holes so far with the odd weather in Michigan. Had 27 Holes Friday and 36 holes Saturday on an annual guys trip in some rain, heavy fog, cold, and crazy wind. I laid off the gym and took a few days off Stack to recover. 

 

Leading up to this weekend I did two full sessions just solely on tempo on gate swings. Under some guidance of Trackman I changed some loft/weighting on driver to match up with new shaft for better desired launch. Also started finding myself taking swings on the course like I was in the garage ripping max swings. Working on finding a sweet spot tempo wise. 

 

Happy to report I hit some absolute bombs in some really sub-optimal weather conditions. Setup and alignment could still use some love but hit a bunch of fairways and on Friday I even hit two greens that the card had at 334 and 339 in 50 degrees, mist rain, and fog. 

 

I myself have been up and down on feelings but just like anything with mechanics, launch, weight trainings, and now speed training, it will take time to make "real" changes. Those can also negatively effect other things such as launch, timing, etc. that can negate the speed increases until those are addressed. Hope everyone is stacking gains! 

[Jlocke22]

And side note: Have completed (3) sessions on putting beta. Changed the weights in my Mizuno putter to a few grams lighter to help with speed bias results. Just went to store and grabbed best feeling putter grip in my hands installed. 
 

after tweaks and three sessions I rolled the most amount of putts in the hole as I have in maybe forever and distance control was superb. If not messing with the putting beta it is definitely worth a look. 

[Tiger_Stud]

4 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

And side note: Have completed (3) sessions on putting beta. Changed the weights in my Mizuno putter to a few grams lighter to help with speed bias results. Just went to store and grabbed best feeling putter grip in my hands installed. 
 

after tweaks and three sessions I rolled the most amount of putts in the hole as I have in maybe forever and distance control was superb. If not messing with the putting beta it is definitely worth a look. 

Haven’t looked at the putter beta yet at all. What exactly is the purpose of it? It can’t be swinging the putter at 125 mph, can it? 😉

[Jlocke22]

8 hours ago, Tiger_Stud said:

Haven’t looked at the putter beta yet at all. What exactly is the purpose of it? It can’t be swinging the putter at 125 mph, can it? 😉

Hahah definitely need a decent practice green. It asks you to hit 18 different length, break, uphill/downhill putts that vary like in a round. You then record made, miss (and where), short long, distance, 2 putt/three putt, etc. 

 

system will keep track of strokes gained and biases for speed/direction. It will also start to show where you are lacking vs pros in make/miss and strokes gained. 
 

probably takes 15-20 minutes but so far so good and honestly much better use of putting time vs just blasting balls around the green. 

[Max21]

13 hours ago, Jlocke22 said:

And side note: Have completed (3) sessions on putting beta. Changed the weights in my Mizuno putter to a few grams lighter to help with speed bias results. Just went to store and grabbed best feeling putter grip in my hands installed. 
 

after tweaks and three sessions I rolled the most amount of putts in the hole as I have in maybe forever and distance control was superb. If not messing with the putting beta it is definitely worth a look. 

 

Ive only done 1 session so far but such a cool addition to the app. Just like you said instead of just blasting random putts around you gotta focus and basically are playing a game.

 

Wish the local golf course had a better putting green by me though as some of the holes it says to use just aren't an option at the green I practice at. The misread part of the putting program gets me confused on what to do when i can't get the requested type of putt

[Dan Drake]

On 5/17/2023 at 2:56 PM, Sbush22 said:

Has anyone experienced slow downs during certain phases of programs?  I’m currently on FSS phase 2 and have slowed down 3-4 mph with 195 g the first few sessions. Speed is starting to come back a little now, but still down slightly. 

 

FSS phase 2 has 3 sets of heavy swings and then one light set of step swings (which I am terrible at). Wondering if the heavy swings slowing me down, getting out of sequence with step swings, getting use to increased volume, or just normal volatility etc?  Anyone else experience something similar and if so, did it improve again in later phases?

My progress has not been linear at all, so I'm comfortable saying yes, slow downs can happen.  I've gone from 108 to 116 to 121 back to 116 and now at 117.  I'd say different times of day, different energy levels, eating habits that day, and just understanding that on that 121mph day, I must have just been in a zone.  I wouldn't let it worry you too much, you'll get back to that bigger number before too long.  

 

And just to toot my own horn, I completed my first off-handed session yesterday!  I'm bringing the lumber lefty at 106mph to start and I couldn't be happier!

 

Now what happens if I get faster from the left side than the right?   That's right, an excuse to buy A NEW DRIVER!!!!

(Quick Edit: FWIW, you all know this was a bit of a red herring.  I already own 3 lefty drivers!!!!!!)

Edited May 26, 2023 by Dan Drake

[Dan Drake]

After today’s sesh (as the kids say), I’m at 117 righty & 107 lefty.  
 

[Sbush22]

On 5/25/2023 at 2:28 PM, Dan Drake said:

My progress has not been linear at all, so I'm comfortable saying yes, slow downs can happen.  I've gone from 108 to 116 to 121 back to 116 and now at 117.  I'd say different times of day, different energy levels, eating habits that day, and just understanding that on that 121mph day, I must have just been in a zone.  I wouldn't let it worry you too much, you'll get back to that bigger number before too long.  

 

And just to toot my own horn, I completed my first off-handed session yesterday!  I'm bringing the lumber lefty at 106mph to start and I couldn't be happier!

 

Now what happens if I get faster from the left side than the right?   That's right, an excuse to buy A NEW DRIVER!!!!

(Quick Edit: FWIW, you all know this was a bit of a red herring.  I already own 3 lefty drivers!!!!!!)

I think the time of day is huge. When doing my sessions in the afternoon, my 195 sets range from 108-110 pretty consistently. 
 

I tried doing some sessions at 5 a.m. before work because it worked out with my schedule and that’s when I saw big drops. I had a couple sessions of 102-103 and was pretty frustrated. I am going to try to stick with afternoon sessions when possible. I have my highest speeds when I do that and hit 114 with one swing which is encouraging. 
 

increased from 111 to 119 in foundation and am halfway through FSS. Goal is 121 by the end. 

[Dan Drake]

23 minutes ago, Sbush22 said:

I think the time of day is huge. When doing my sessions in the afternoon, my 195 sets range from 108-110 pretty consistently. 
 

I tried doing some sessions at 5 a.m. before work because it worked out with my schedule and that’s when I saw big drops. I had a couple sessions of 102-103 and was pretty frustrated. I am going to try to stick with afternoon sessions when possible. I have my highest speeds when I do that and hit 114 with one swing which is encouraging. 
 

increased from 111 to 119 in foundation and am halfway through FSS. Goal is 121 by the end. 

Yep, I think I'm starting to see an "early afternoon is best" trend myself.  I'm also noticing that the calories consumed that day have an effect.  

 

Long story medium: If you aren't using the Notes function on the app to track time of day/routine/swing thoughts/etc., you are missing out on a HUGE opportunity.  It can be a MASSIVE force multiplier, if you use it consistently and reference back to it.  Heck, I found a swing thought that allows me to lengthen my hand path, but it is still so new to me that I'll go through part of a session not knowing why I'm slower and then AH-HA! 

 

Just use the notes folks, I promise it will help! 

[Sbush22]

I’m so impressed with the Stack. If you do it consistently, you will get results. I started my speed journey about 5 years ago with the superspeed sticks and went from about 102 to 112 on trackman over about 3 years. I was also lifting and working out during this time, but just my own program. I stalled out at 112 and couldn’t get past that plateau when I decided I needed to do something different. 
 

Last November, I subscribed to Fit for Golf and have gone through the Offseason, winter strength, and 2/3 through the Power Plan workout. 
 

In March was when I purchased the Stack and after my first Stack program, I hit 117 on trackman and 172 ball speed. I think the highest before the stack was around 166. It’s been a combination of workouts and the stack consistently.  I’m not a big guy. About 5’ 6” and 155 lbs. 
 

Just wanted to tell my story and encourage anyone who wants to gain speed. It’s there if you put in the effort. 
 

I’ve shared my referral code below if anyone wants to use it. It gets you $50 off your stack purchase. 
 

https://www.thestacksystem.com/checkouts/c/8a1cddc6950a29d94f752238fb35b41e/information?discount=I2Ze57jQV2QH2c9HLrriWNtawxl2

[Dan Drake]

So I have been doing my two sessions back to back and this time did lefty first.  Got to a new PB at 108mph eSpeed.  Right handed me then got nervous that Lefty D was catching up and got off the schniede and back into the 120's.  

 

Also, I struggle to get pumped up before the sessions, but man, if I get just one PB at any speed/weight, even just for one rep, I light up like a Christmas tree and start acting a fool for the rest of the session. 

 

My neighbors are starting to have concerns about my mental well being.........

[PAndaemonium89]

23 hours ago, Dan Drake said:

So I have been doing my two sessions back to back and this time did lefty first.  Got to a new PB at 108mph eSpeed.  Right handed me then got nervous that Lefty D was catching up and got off the schniede and back into the 120's.  

 

Also, I struggle to get pumped up before the sessions, but man, if I get just one PB at any speed/weight, even just for one rep, I light up like a Christmas tree and start acting a fool for the rest of the session. 

 

My neighbors are starting to have concerns about my mental well being.........

Did I miss this earlier? You’re doing the full stack program for both right and left sides? Why?

[Dan Drake]

44 minutes ago, PAndaemonium89 said:

Did I miss this earlier? You’re doing the full stack program for both right and left sides? Why?

Yes, full program from both sides.  Why, you ask? 

 

Well, that's a question that delves deeeeeep into the furthest recesses of my golfing soul and the delirium that exists only therein.  But the short answer is that I play right handed for the vast majority of my rounds, but I do dabble playing left handed occasionally.  For instance, next weekend I'll be going on a get together with my group of friends and by playing lefty, the skill levels of us all is much more balanced than if I play righty.  Plus, I just have more fun playing lefty, especially in that type of setting. 

 

But, I still want to outdrive all of my friends, even from the wrong side of the ball!!!!!!

[jamie]

5 hours ago, PAndaemonium89 said:

Did I miss this earlier? You’re doing the full stack program for both right and left sides? Why?

Curious as well after reading the comments here because a big advertisement for Stack at the beginning was not having to swing both sides and implied that it was unnecessary, re Superspeed. 

[Dan Drake]

On 6/1/2023 at 5:36 PM, jamie said:

Curious as well after reading the comments here because a big advertisement for Stack at the beginning was not having to swing both sides and implied that it was unnecessary, re Superspeed. 

I’m doing a left-handed program because I play both lefty & righty.  I play 98% of my rounds righty, but the once or twice a year that I get to play with my lifelong friends, I like to play lefty because it is more fun/funny.  
 

Also, sesh-day update: 121mph righty/111mph lefty.  Yes, my lefty swing is now faster than my righty swing was when I started that program!!!!!

[54CW]

How are you all doing this in conjunction with practice at the range? Are you using data from range balls? My concern is, is there a disadvantage to using range balls at all. So far that’s just a mental block for me but I can get over that if there’s no disadvantage to hitting them. 
 

I just finished my baseline testing with the PRGR. My ego is in check, I’ll selling all my x flex shafts later this afternoon. 

[Sbush22]

47 minutes ago, 54CW said:

How are you all doing this in conjunction with practice at the range? Are you using data from range balls? My concern is, is there a disadvantage to using range balls at all. So far that’s just a mental block for me but I can get over that if there’s no disadvantage to hitting them. 
 

I just finished my baseline testing with the PRGR. My ego is in check, I’ll selling all my x flex shafts later this afternoon. 

I don’t think you’ll get accurate or consistent ball speed data from range balls unless you have very high quality balls. With that said, it doesn’t do any harm to measure it with PRGR. I would pay more attention to the club head speed on the range, which is your potential for ball speed

[54CW]

@Sbush22 do you recommend a ball speed conversion chart? I’ve seen a few around on the forums but not sure what is best one to use. 

[Sbush22]

10 minutes ago, 54CW said:

@Sbush22 do you recommend a ball speed conversion chart? I’ve seen a few around on the forums but not sure what is best one to use. 

Personally, I would just focus on club head speed on the range. Then check in on ball speed when you can use a premium ball on an indoor trackman. I don’t know anything about ball speed conversion charts, but not saying you shouldn’t use them. I think the whole purpose of speed training is raising your potential for hitting it farther. That’s why I think CHS is a better measure. If you increase CHS, ball speed will be increasing all else equal. 

[CMCSGolf]

Question for the Stack group - As mentioned earlier in this thread, I saw little to no gains after completing Foundations and the Neural Drive courses.  I think this was partly due to my swing getting way out of sequence from the Stack.  My technique suffered, therefore I may not have been able to take advantage of any gains.

 

When I swing the Stack my hips clear way too early and my arms are left way behind.  By definition with the Stack, you're swinging max so focusing on technique doesn't make sense.  I am considering going through a stack course while using a training aid or swing drill.  Basically, swing as hard as I can (or whatever the App asks for) while having a training aid (something like holding a ball between my biceps or Dan Carraher's alignment stick through the belt loop drill) to keep my sequencing correct.  The thought being I would be improving my speed in a swing that is forced to be in sequence.  

 

This obviously wouldn't be my max speed, but would be max speed given a constraint and would hopefully transfer into swings without the training aid.  Good idea or bad idea?

[Sbush22]

15 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

Question for the Stack group - As mentioned earlier in this thread, I saw little to no gains after completing Foundations and the Neural Drive courses.  I think this was partly due to my swing getting way out of sequence from the Stack.  My technique suffered, therefore I may not have been able to take advantage of any gains.

 

When I swing the Stack my hips clear way too early and my arms are left way behind.  By definition with the Stack, you're swinging max so focusing on technique doesn't make sense.  I am considering going through a stack course while using a training aid or swing drill.  Basically, swing as hard as I can (or whatever the App asks for) while having a training aid (something like holding a ball between my biceps or Dan Carraher's alignment stick through the belt loop drill) to keep my sequencing correct.  The thought being I would be improving my speed in a swing that is forced to be in sequence.  

 

This obviously wouldn't be my max speed, but would be max speed given a constraint and would hopefully transfer into swings without the training aid.  Good idea or bad idea?

I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think you would make speed gains doing this. Most say not to combine speed and technique training. When you are training for speed, just train speed. Then train technique separately. Eventually, you’ll get more coordinated with your speed training and sync everything up 

[Nels55]

20 minutes ago, CMCSGolf said:

Question for the Stack group - As mentioned earlier in this thread, I saw little to no gains after completing Foundations and the Neural Drive courses.  I think this was partly due to my swing getting way out of sequence from the Stack.  My technique suffered, therefore I may not have been able to take advantage of any gains.

 

When I swing the Stack my hips clear way too early and my arms are left way behind.  By definition with the Stack, you're swinging max so focusing on technique doesn't make sense.  I am considering going through a stack course while using a training aid or swing drill.  Basically, swing as hard as I can (or whatever the App asks for) while having a training aid (something like holding a ball between my biceps or Dan Carraher's alignment stick through the belt loop drill) to keep my sequencing correct.  The thought being I would be improving my speed in a swing that is forced to be in sequence.  

 

This obviously wouldn't be my max speed, but would be max speed given a constraint and would hopefully transfer into swings without the training aid.  Good idea or bad idea?

What if your speed swing is actually mechanically correct for you?  Maybe all you need to do is to adjust your grip and setup to accommodate the speed swing?

[Dan Drake]

2 hours ago, Sbush22 said:

I don’t necessarily think it’s a bad idea, but I don’t think you would make speed gains doing this. Most say not to combine speed and technique training. When you are training for speed, just train speed. Then train technique separately. Eventually, you’ll get more coordinated with your speed training and sync everything up 

I'm with @Sbush22 here.  Train for speed with the understanding that technique will (and probably should) suffer, or else you aren't going fast enough.  Then, when you decide to take a break from speed training, train for technique with the understanding that you will probably lose some speed.  

 

Here's the thing though (and Al Davis was right, sort of): Speed doesn't go into a slump.  Great putters have bad putting days.  Great short gamers hit terrible pitch shots.  Good iron players miss greens.  Straight drivers hit it crooked some days.  But, barring injury, John Daly never woke up and was 25 yards shorter than he was the day before.  

[Nels55]

3 hours ago, Dan Drake said:

I'm with @Sbush22 here.  Train for speed with the understanding that technique will (and probably should) suffer, or else you aren't going fast enough.  Then, when you decide to take a break from speed training, train for technique with the understanding that you will probably lose some speed.  

 

Here's the thing though (and Al Davis was right, sort of): Speed doesn't go into a slump.  Great putters have bad putting days.  Great short gamers hit terrible pitch shots.  Good iron players miss greens.  Straight drivers hit it crooked some days.  But, barring injury, John Daly never woke up and was 25 yards shorter than he was the day before.  

I think that better technique should always increase speed.  If the technique inhibits speed then it is not correct.

[CMCSGolf]

Thanks for everyone's thoughts.  

 

I agree with @Sbush22 that this is unlikely to be the optimal way to build speed.  However as mentioned, I completed two full courses on the Stack and gained nothing, so I feel like I have to try something else.  Otherwise, I'll be repeating the same action and expecting a different result, which is the definition of insanity...

 

@Nels55, I don't think my speed swing is the best for me.  I was getting more erratic throughout the training (all other practice remained unchanged) and my coach identified that my hands were late and my hips were fired way too early.  Which I think was exacerbated by the stack.  Lastly, agree with your last point that proper technique should increase speed.

 

@Dan Drake, I also think you're right.  If I had made big gains with a speed swing, I could dial it back down a bit and refine technique to get the best middle ground.  However, I ended up in a situation where I made no distance gains and lost technique.  Therefore, I'm kind of stuck.  I guess I'm just trying to find a new way to gain speed that will work for me.  My theory is that if I can maintain proper technique, perhaps then I can actually make speed gains.

[dcmidnight]

I have set aside my Stack workouts for the last several weeks and am not sure I will pick them back up during the season. 

 

My goal when I started was to get from 104 to 108 or 109 - and thats where I am right now. I actually use my SSR at the range not to see how fast I can go but to really target 108 as where I am most comfortable being at. I will occasionally bounce one up to 112 or so but I know I'm getting too fast. So I use it mostly as a governor to cap where I'm at and to keep getting used to that speed. My ballspeeds are also up to the low 160s which is very good for me and again - I'm happy with that.

 

I'm really happy with the 4 or so months I used this in the offseason and I may just keep using it that way. Even if the app is $100/yr to me thats a reasonable investment in my offseason workouts. I think the fact is - for me - that I spend most of my time in-season on the course playing/practicing or at the range. And if I have leftover time at home its going to be spent working out. Even though its 10-15 minutes I honestly dont think I'm going to keep it up in-season.

 

I know the counter to that is oh hey but look at Matt Fitzpatrick, he uses this before his rounds and he's still fine, he can do all his other stuff too. Well, thats all well and good, but that guy has 24 hours a day he can devote to golf stuff if he wants to - I dont. 

[dcmidnight]

I will say that I think the Stack workouts will force you to look at your technique and play around with things that might make you swing faster. Maybe you aren't turning enough or getting enough weight shift - things like that. For me it was increasing the length of my hand path. So I think thats where some of your gains can be seen, in part its going to be a lot of experimentation with technique and not just that you are building up these magical speed muscles.

 

So again - for me - "experimentation with technique" doesnt necessarily fit well into my tournament season schedule.

 

Just me. In my opinion. As always, your mileage may vary.

[buckethat72]

Anyone have any injury issues? I’m a stack fan and have used it for a while but I’ve been unable to play golf for almost 3 months now with tendon tears in my trail shoulder. Stack not the only reason but certainly a main contributor. 

[dcmidnight]

9 hours ago, buckethat72 said:

Anyone have any injury issues? I’m a stack fan and have used it for a while but I’ve been unable to play golf for almost 3 months now with tendon tears in my trail shoulder. Stack not the only reason but certainly a main contributor. 

 

I have not but it would not surprise me. You have people who generally are not swinging that fast suddenly grabbing a weighted stick and being encouraged to swing as fast as they possibly can.

 

To be fair I guess I used Stack along with a golf workout app and yoga. But yeah I could see if you went from nothing to this - it could happen.