Junior Golf Scoreboard

[leezer99]

JGS is giving their Hurricane events better status in the rankings than other junior golf tours out there.  We all know they have weak fields but somehow their strength of tournament is higher than others with better fields.  Very suspect.

 

I'm not even sure why they are partnered up with a tour if they are supposed to be impartial.

[heavy_hitter]

6 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

JGS is giving their Hurricane events better status in the rankings than other junior golf tours out there.  We all know they have weak fields but somehow their strength of tournament is higher than others with better fields.  Very suspect.

 

I'm not even sure why they are partnered up with a tour if they are supposed to be impartial.

Was in on a FSGA/JGS Zoom meeting a couple of weeks ago.  Owner of JGS called the Hurricane Tour a Developmental tour.  I think Hurricane runs great events, which they should be for the price.  You really have to pick and choose what events to play in them because most are not stellar fields.

[leezer99]

Exhibit A:

  

JGS Instagram

Edited December 15, 2021 by leezer99
add picture

[BloctonGolf11]

The thing I don't like about Hurricane is an issue with most tours...the points are not capped at a certain number of events so the POY for it is meaningless. You can essentially buy the POY by playing an obnoxious amount of tournaments and accruing points. There should be a set number of tournaments that earn points and after that you don't get awarded points or make POY about average finish over a certain number of events. POY on HJGT and tours like that are essentially an award for who can write the most checks. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[tiger1873]

2 hours ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

The thing I don't like about Hurricane is an issue with most tours...the points are not capped at a certain number of events so the POY for it is meaningless. You can essentially buy the POY by playing an obnoxious amount of tournaments and accruing points. There should be a set number of tournaments that earn points and after that you don't get awarded points or make POY about average finish over a certain number of events. POY on HJGT and tours like that are essentially an award for who can write the most checks. 

 

Not true at all you have to play all the different events to win.  To gain points you need to win or do well at invitationals which can and does have large high ranked fields and generally why they give more points. It is the same way with every tour.

 

POY is about playing a lot tournaments and winning. It means you can grind week in week out. That is true for all tours.  The way you saying means your rewarding for playing less. 

 

There is a reason why colleges recruit POY from tours.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by tiger1873

[BloctonGolf11]

32 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Not true at all you have to play all the different events to win.  To gain points you need to win or do well at invitationals which can and does have large high ranked fields. It is the same way with every tour.

 

I seen plenty just play tournaments and never came close.

Tiger, come on man, the fact is in HJGT you can pile on points by playing an obnoxious amount of events. It is what it is. You can try to dress it up all you want to but the fact is you can stockpile points. Look at the runner up in one of the age division's scoring averages compared to other kids and then try to feed that crap you just wrote. There are numerous kids who finished high or topped POY whose scoring averages are way higher than kids who finished below them just because they stockpiled tournaments.

 

Since you edited there is a vast difference in playing a variety of tournaments and stockpiling points by playing low attended events and getting rewarded for it. Also, college coaches don't give a crap about POY awards from tours like Hurricane. They are looking at scoring average and difficulty of tournament. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[BloctonGolf11]

17 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

Not true at all you have to play all the different events to win.  To gain points you need to win or do well at invitationals which can and does have large high ranked fields and generally why they give more points. It is the same way with every tour.

 

POY is about playing a lot tournaments and winning. It means you can grind week in week out. That is true for all tours.  The way you saying means your rewarding for playing less. 

 

There is a reason why colleges recruit POY from tours.

 

 

Also Tiger, Hurricane literally gives you bonus points for playing more events. It is a money grab. 

[tiger1873]

13 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Tiger, come on man, the fact is in HJGT you can pile on points by playing an obnoxious amount of events. It is what it is. You can try to dress it up all you want to but the fact is you can stockpile points. Look at the runner up for 10U's scoring averages compared to other kids and then try to feed that crap you just wrote. There are numerous kids who finished high or topped POY whose scoring averages are way higher than kids who finished below them just because they stockpiled tournaments.

 

Since you edited there is a vast difference in playing a variety of tournaments and stockpiling points by playing low attended events and getting rewarded for it. Also, college coaches don't give a crap about POY awards from tours like Hurricane. They are looking at scoring average and difficulty of tournament. 

 

 

There is no reason to pick on Hurricane every tour is the same way. You play the most events you can and at the end of the year the one who did the best wins.  If your looking for lowest score then perhaps you should worry more about JGS. 

 

It isn't about averages at all. It about being consistent and willing to play a lot events.  At the end of the day the one who does well in the invitationals and large events generally do the best.  

 

Coaches love POY because it means you can stick to something and is constant in their play.  You can complain about HJGT but every tour including ones like Peggy Kirk who has averages computed in give points based on how many tournaments you play.   

 

Anyone who complains about Hurricane or other tours like TJGT has no clue why they exist.  They are developmental tours which means they are for players who want to play on better courses and looking to play on a larger stage.   There are expensive tournaments and there are cheap tournaments.  The price is based on where you play. The flexibility is nice because it means you can choose to play better courses.

 

You can play the same course with a very similar setup to an AJGA event.  Kids who do well I have seen go on to win those AJGA events at the same courses. This makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BloctonGolf11]

1 minute ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

There is no reason to pick on Hurricane every tour is the same way. You play the most events you can and at the end of the year the one who did the best wins.  If your looking for lowest score then perhaps you should worry more about JGS. 

 

It isn't about averages at all. It about being consistent and willing to play a lot events.  At the end of the day the one who does well in the invitationals and large events generally do the best.  

 

Coaches love POY because it means you can stick to something and is constant in their play.  You can complain about HJGT but every tour including ones like Peggy Kirk who has averages computed in give points based on how many tournaments you play.   

 

Anyone who complains about Hurricane or other tours like TJGT has no clue why they exist.  They are developmental tours which means they are for players who want to play on better courses and looking to play on a larger stage.   There are expensive tournaments and there are cheap tournaments.  The price is based on where you play. The flexibility is nice because it means you can choose to play better courses.

 

You can play the same course with a very similar setup to an AJGA event.  Kids who do well I have seen go on to win those AJGA events at the same courses. This makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You just said it yourself, it is a developmental tour. College coaches don't care about a POY from a developmental tour Tiger. Also, I said, and I am directly quoting "The thing I don't like about Hurricane is an issue with most tours", Hurricane is just the most visible and most tours don't give you massive bonus points just for showing up Tiger. 

[leezer99]

I don’t have time to do it but someone should go look at the hurricane poy winners from the last few years and tell us what colleges they’re at now. 

[tiger1873]

23 minutes ago, leezer99 said:

I don’t have time to do it but someone should go look at the hurricane poy winners from the last few years and tell us what colleges they’re at now. 

 

Most of the winners over the years have gone to top DII colleges especially if there a junior or senior. I don't think that should be a surprise to anyone.

 

If you want to play D1 you need to play AJGA and do well for the most part. This is of sort obvious.

 

Some the ones over the years that won POY when they are younger have moved on and done quite well at  D1 colleges and some after a couple of years are winning AJGA events. Again that should not be a surprise either.

 

The vast majority of kids out there who are not ready to play and win a AJGA need to play HJGT or TJGT or IMG and few other development tours. These are good tours to be if your kid is between 12-16. 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by tiger1873

[tiger1873]

48 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Also Tiger, Hurricane literally gives you bonus points for playing more events. It is a money grab. 

 

So what do you propose playing instead?????????  Decent golf courses cost money to play.  Like anyone else I want to pay $100 for a 2 day event but the problem is those tours play dog tracks.

 

I sure the heck don't like paying membership fees for 1 tournament like a lot tours out there charge. That is a money grab for sure.

 

Common theme around here is to whine that tour(AJGA, HJGT, IMG or what ever) is no good because it is expensive.  Some kids will play more then others get over it.

[heavy_hitter]

44 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

There is no reason to pick on Hurricane every tour is the same way. You play the most events you can and at the end of the year the one who did the best wins.  If your looking for lowest score then perhaps you should worry more about JGS. 

 

It isn't about averages at all. It about being consistent and willing to play a lot events.  At the end of the day the one who does well in the invitationals and large events generally do the best.  

 

Coaches love POY because it means you can stick to something and is constant in their play.  You can complain about HJGT but every tour including ones like Peggy Kirk who has averages computed in give points based on how many tournaments you play.   

 

Anyone who complains about Hurricane or other tours like TJGT has no clue why they exist.  They are developmental tours which means they are for players who want to play on better courses and looking to play on a larger stage.   There are expensive tournaments and there are cheap tournaments.  The price is based on where you play. The flexibility is nice because it means you can choose to play better courses.

 

You can play the same course with a very similar setup to an AJGA event.  Kids who do well I have seen go on to win those AJGA events at the same courses. This makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't want to be in this argument, but college coaches couldn't care less about POY points on any tour including AJGA.

[tiger1873]

4 hours ago, leezer99 said:

Exhibit A:

  

JGS Instagram

 

One those girls that won is sub 150 ranked player and is likely going to be a top 20 player soon. To beat her you almost have to go under par.

Edited December 15, 2021 by tiger1873

[BloctonGolf11]

52 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

So what do you propose playing instead?????????  Decent golf courses cost money to play.  Like anyone else I want to pay $100 for a 2 day event but the problem is those tours play dog tracks.

 

I sure the heck don't like paying membership fees for 1 tournament like a lot tours out there charge. That is a money grab for sure.

 

Common theme around here is to whine that tour(AJGA, HJGT, IMG or what ever) is no good because it is expensive.  Some kids will play more then others get over it.

You talking about people whining about tournaments....stones glass houses buddy. 

 

No one is whining about anything just stating facts Tiger.

[tiger1873]

13 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

You talking about people whining about tournaments....stones glass houses buddy. 

 

No one is whining about anything just stating facts Tiger.

 

So what is the alternative??? You say don't play a development tour what is it?  If your on the easy coast it's pretty hard to not not play at least a few Hurricanes a year.

 

For girls the HJGT tournaments in central florida are some the best in the country they have great courses and huge fields with more then 40 girls. If you have a girl playing golf that is amazing to get that many out in a tournament.  Not all areas will have as many kids.

 

TJGT in Texas is very similar too and we can add IMG too. 

 

I am glad these tours exist.  They rank higher then most local tournaments because they tend to play on better courses and kids travel for it.  The thing is if you play things like Florida state or Legends texas tour those tours will usually rank higher than HJGT. 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by tiger1873

[BloctonGolf11]

3 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

So what is the alternative??? You say don't play a development tour what is it?  If your on the easy coast it's pretty hard to not not play at least a few Hurricanes a year.

 

For girls the HJGT tournaments in central florida are some the best in the country they have great courses and huge fields with more then 40 girls. If you have a girl playing golf that is amazing to get that many out in a tournament.  Not all areas will have as many kids.

 

TJGT in Texas is very similar too and we can add IMG too. 

 

I am glad these tours exist.  The rank higher then most local tournaments because they tend to play on better courses and kids travel for it.  The thing is if you play things like Florida state or Legends texas tour those tours will usually rank higher then HJGT. 

Where did I say don't play developmental tours? You are confusing the fact that I have issues with tours that dole out "Player of the Year" to people who just spam tournaments. Also, taking issue with the statement that college coaches look at Player of the Year for developmental tours. Developmental tours are great but be honest about what they are and how they dole out points. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[tiger1873]

2 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Where did I say don't play developmental tours? You are confusing the fact that I have issues with tours that dole out "Player of the Year" to people who just spam tournaments. 

 

You are probably not a fan of the fedex cup either.  All tours have some sort of point system.  I also think it's makes sense as well.  Most kids will not even bother trying as they never will play enough to win.  There is nothing wrong with that. But there is always a few players that play a lot tournaments on a tour and this adds excitement at the end of the year because everyone is trying to play every last tournament to win POY.

 

 

 

[BloctonGolf11]

5 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

You are probably not a fan of the fedex cup either.  All tours have some sort of point system.  I also think it's makes sense as well.  Most kids will not even bother trying as they never will play enough to win.  There is nothing wrong with that. But there is always a few players that play a lot tournaments on a tour and this adds excitement at the end of the year because everyone is trying to play every last tournament to win POY.

 

 

 

Comparing the FedEx Cup to HJGT is about the most delusional comical thing I have read on here...and that is saying something. The lack of any kind of grasp of reality with that makes me think you are trolling but I know you are not. 

[tiger1873]

47 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Comparing the FedEx Cup to HJGT is about the most delusional comical thing I have read on here...and that is saying something. The lack of any kind of grasp of reality with that makes me think you are trolling but I know you are not. 

 

They work the same way. Pretty much every tour has a similar system. You play and depending how you place and what tournament you get points.

 

bonus points are given to everyone who is a member.  If you play a lot HJGT you are going to be a member to get cheaper tournaments. Also bonus points were retroactive.

 

It’s useless talking you because the world must be unfair. 
 

Have you even played HJGT???? 

[leezer99]

3 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

They work the same way. Pretty much every tour has a similar system. You play and depending how you place and what tournament you get points.

 

bonus points are given to everyone who is a member.  If you play a lot HJGT you are going to be a member to get cheaper tournaments. Also bonus points were retroactive.

 

It’s useless talking you because the world must be unfair. 
 

Have you even played HJGT???? 

 

There are no bonus points in SoCal.  You get a bump in points for playing in larger more competitive fields.

 

My son has played in an HJGT event and we'll never play another one again.  They have garbage fields and the tournament staff are about as useful as a kick in the balls.  Most of them were nice (our tournament director was a jerk) but had no clue on the rules or how to run an event.  Glorified babysitters basically.  No wonder they are hooked up with JGS who's just another junior golf SCAM company.

[tiger1873]

 

1 hour ago, leezer99 said:

 

There are no bonus points in SoCal.  You get a bump in points for playing in larger more competitive fields.

 

My son has played in an HJGT event and we'll never play another one again.  They have garbage fields and the tournament staff are about as useful as a kick in the balls.  Most of them were nice (our tournament director was a jerk) but had no clue on the rules or how to run an event.  Glorified babysitters basically.  No wonder they are hooked up with JGS who's just another junior golf SCAM company.

 

what the heck is your issue with JGS? There not giving preference to Hurricane. If anything they under rank them based on what i see in florida.  Plenty of good players play them too.

 

Not sure how you think hurricane is getting special treatment. In a lot cases playing stuff like FJT gets a better strength of tournament.

 

strenth of tournament doesn’t even matter that much anymore.  All JGS cares about is the diff score and a lot people have figured that out and avoiding bigger tours.
 

maybe there fixing that and is a good thing. The problem i see is kids playing easy courses and setups with small fields getting ranked much higher then they should be.  Some these kids get killed when they play better courses and national events.

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by tiger1873

[leezer99]

8 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

what the heck is your issue with JGS? There not giving preference to Hurricane. If anything they under rank them based on what i see in florida.  Plenty of good players play them too.

 

Not sure how you think hurricane is getting special treatment. In a lot cases playing stuff like FJT gets a better strength of tournament.

 

strenth of tournament doesn’t even matter that much anymore.  All JGS cares about is the diff score and a lot people have figured that out and avoiding bigger tours.
 

maybe there fixing that and is a good thing. The problem i see is kids playing easy courses and setups with small fields getting ranked much higher then they should be.  Some these kids get killed when they play better courses and national events.

 

 

 

 

I've seen their strength of field higher than it should ever have been.  That they keep their formula for strength of field a secret is suspect at best and really just deceitful.

 

It's about time for a group to rise up and replace the fascist regime known as JGS.  Their singular authority with no oversight must be stopped.

Edited December 16, 2021 by leezer99

[kekoa]

Around my parts, I play HJGT for two reasons:  1). quality of courses and 2). they do two day tournaments.  Beyond that I do see rather weak fields in California.  Some age divisions might have 1 or 2 players.  In the last tournament, they posted a scorecard showing 5,600 yards for the boys 11-13.  We show up and a few tees were way back of the reds.  I would estimate the course played closer to 5,800.  Quite long for an 11 yr old, but maybe shorter than average for a 13 yr old.   On the final round they set the pins like it was a pga tournament.  Crazy!!!  Overall, I really like how the Hurricane tournaments are run.   

[tiger1873]

12 hours ago, leezer99 said:

 

I've seen their strength of field higher than it should ever have been.  That they keep their formula for strength of field a secret is suspect at best and really just deceitful.

 

It's about time for a group to rise up and replace the fascist regime known as JGS.  Their singular authority with no oversight must be stopped.

 

The strength of tournament doesn't matter with JGS. There is a girl that is number 3 with a 92 strength of tournament. She is ranked above girls who won USGA championships. If you read what they tell you this should not happen but it does.

 

JGS is not a very good ranking anymore.  The reason You and me need them is they accept 2 day tournaments from anyone.  Also some the better tours will want to see JGS rankings to gain status. Once you start to get ranked with golfweek or AJGA Rolex you no longer have to worry about JGS that much since most people will accept those rankings instead.  

 

The biggest problem I am seeing with JGS is how they rank and calculate things. This pretty much means there is a 6-12 month lag on rankings. You either have to play more tournaments to drop off the higher scores or simply wait it out. For my that means there are tournaments that my daughter will not get into this spring because her JGS ranking is higher then it should be.  It's pretty easy to calculate they don't use a very complicated formula.  Basically drop off the worst 25% and average the rest.   The course adjustment is scam and really just a penalty on kids who are getting better then average for their scores.

 

I heard there are better rankings coming along than JGS but for now it what we have and tours  and some tournament commitees seem to trust. 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by tiger1873

[BloctonGolf11]

10 hours ago, kekoa said:

Around my parts, I play HJGT for two reasons:  1). quality of courses and 2). they do two day tournaments.  Beyond that I do see rather weak fields in California.  Some age divisions might have 1 or 2 players.  In the last tournament, they posted a scorecard showing 5,600 yards for the boys 11-13.  We show up and a few tees were way back of the reds.  I would estimate the course played closer to 5,800.  Quite long for an 11 yr old, but maybe shorter than average for a 13 yr old.   On the final round they set the pins like it was a pga tournament.  Crazy!!!  Overall, I really like how the Hurricane tournaments are run.   

No point in playing them here for same reasons Kekoa. If I am paying $300 for a tournament I better be playing more than 5 other kids. If you are paying and travelling to play less than 20 kids, unless it is special circumstances, it is obvious what your agenda is. The courses here are nothing special as they are mostly public and RTJs we can go play whenever we want to. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[BloctonGolf11]

16 hours ago, tiger1873 said:

 

They work the same way. Pretty much every tour has a similar system. You play and depending how you place and what tournament you get points.

 

bonus points are given to everyone who is a member.  If you play a lot HJGT you are going to be a member to get cheaper tournaments. Also bonus points were retroactive.

 

It’s useless talking you because the world must be unfair. 
 

Have you even played HJGT???? 

No because around here the fields are comically small. I am not spending $300 to play 5 - 10 kids, it is pointless. However, our course hosts one and I have seen them. They seem well run and I have no issue with how they are run on the daily. The only issue I have is your vacillating defense of their POY system, which is a joke, and how you go back and forth glorifying them and then calling it a developmental tour. HJGT is good for what it is, it's player of the year system is a joke, call a spade a spade Tiger and move on. 

Edited December 16, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[tiger1873]

38 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

No because around here the fields are comically small. I am not spending $300 to play 5 - 10 kids, it is pointless. However, our course hosts one and I have seen them. They seem well run and I have no issue with how they are run on the daily. The only issue I have is your vacillating defense of their POY system, which is a joke, and how you go back and forth glorifying them and then calling it a developmental tour. HJGT is good for what it is, it's player of the year system is a joke, call a spade a spade Tiger and move on. 

 

 

Here is the thing being in Florida I have a hard time finding any large fields for girls outside Florida, North Carolina and Texas or California.  I know because I have looked it not common to see less then 5 girls play a tournament. A large tournament in other states is a normal size tournament for us.

 

There is no reason to hate a tour like you do.  If you don't like then just don't play them. I know here in florida they are growing and all the best teachers are telling people to play them.

 

Any one who knows anything about golf will tell you to go out and play the best courses you can find.  In the past here in Florida that mean playing FJT.  Still does to some extent but FJT has strayed a bit and sometimes has a horrible course or plays the wrong time of year.  other tours have started to pick really bad courses. The stuff that you should never play.

 

Hurricane and IMG are filling a void and offering people a chance to play nicer course. Yes they cost more money but around $250-$300 is pretty standard nowadays for a 2 or 3 day tournament. There really not charging any more then anyone else for a top quality venue. If you pay $300 for a dog track it's your fault for not looking up the course before you signed up.

 

Now maybe you have a better deal where you live. Great but the vast majority of us play where it makes sense.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by tiger1873

[BloctonGolf11]

20 minutes ago, tiger1873 said:

 

 

Here is the thing being in Florida I have a hard time finding any large fields for girls outside Florida, North Carolina and Texas or California.  I know because I have looked it not common to see less then 5 girls play a tournament. A large tournament in other states is a normal size tournament for us.

 

There is no reason to hate a tour like you do.  If you don't like then just don't play them. I know here in florida they are growing and all the best teachers are telling people to play them.

 

Any one who knows anything about golf will tell you to go out and play the best courses you can find.  In the past here in Florida that mean playing FJT.  Still does to some extent but FJT has strayed a bit and sometimes has a horrible course or plays the wrong time of year.  other tours have started to pick really bad courses. The stuff that you should never play.

 

Hurricane and IMG are filling a void and offering people a chance to play nicer course. Yes they cost more money but around $250-$300 is pretty standard nowadays for a 2 or 3 day tournament. There really not charging any more then anyone else for a top quality venue. If you pay $300 for a dog track it's your fault for not looking up the course before you signed up.

 

Now maybe you have a better deal where you live. Great but the vast majority of us play where it makes sense.

 

 

Where did I say I hate HJGT? They fill a void but they are not for me because I find paying $300 for small fields laughable but that is not HJGT's fault it just is what it is. I don't like how they do points and POY, that is all Tiger. They have a kid who finished runner up in POY because he won a dozen tournaments with no one else in the field, then plastered his name as "All Tour" all over their website while his scoring average is double bogey territory, it is idiotic. You take anyone saying anything negative about anything you like and go hyperbolic with it. Tiger, it is okay to criticize parts of things. We all know why you love Hurricane and I will leave it at that; however, you yourself said it is a developmental tour while also insinuating that college coaches will be impressed by POY from HJGT. In good ole southern vernacular, "That dog don't hunt".

Edited December 16, 2021 by BloctonGolf11

[tiger1873]

10 minutes ago, BloctonGolf11 said:

Where did I say I hate HJGT? They fill a void but they are not for me because I find paying $300 for small fields laughable but that is not HJGT's fault it just is what it is. I don't like how they do points and POY, that is all Tiger. They have a kid who finished runner up in POY because he won a dozen tournaments with no one else in the field, then plastered his name as "All Tour" all over their website while his scoring average is double bogey territory, it is idiotic. You take anyone saying anything negative about anything you like and go hyperbolic with it. Tiger, it is okay to criticize parts of things. We all know why you love Hurricane and I will leave it at that; however, you yourself said it is a developmental tour while also insinuating that college coaches will be impressed by POY from HJGT. In good ole southern vernacular, "That dog don't hunt".

 

I don't doubt that let me PM you about some things.