distance debate

[Titleist99]

1 hour ago, MattC555 said:

 

I haven't the foggiest idea what this has to do with what I said.  It appears you vastly underestimate the ball striking talent of PGA Tour professionals and some amateurs.  Do you top your 3 wood off the tee on occasion?  I haven't in ages and my handicap hasn't sniffed yours in 15 years.  So....I'm clueless as to where you're coming from. 

 

Their length isn't limited to driver.  They are hitting 5 irons 230 yards, and traditional PW 140-150 yards.  Today's players are stronger and faster.  Squeeze the heads down and I imagine you'll see the average drive decrease less than 1 club length.  Young kids now watching Bryson and following shots gained based advice are out there building swings around speed.  Things are only going to get "worse" for you.  

 

 

You do know that you're talking to a guy that thinks Touring pros average 243 yards with their 3 wood.......and don't know the difference between bermuda and poa annua grasses....

[clevited]

14 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Skim read

 

you have no frame of reference. You can’t break 80 and have never played in a significant tournament. You haven’t played with or followed a tour pro, or watched high level golf ever in person.

 

Almost all of what you say is a wrong because of this

 

So you are making up reasons to dismiss what is inconvenient evidence against your hypothesis?  That is unfortunate but I pretty well knew that.  I like to try now and again hoping someone will swallow their pride and have a genuine conversation about this.

[milesgiles]

36 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

So you are making up reasons to dismiss what is inconvenient evidence against your hypothesis?  That is unfortunate but I pretty well knew that.  I like to try now and again hoping someone will swallow their pride and have a genuine conversation about this.

 

Its not evidence though.

 

fact is at 125mph, or whatever you claim, you duff a shot on every hole if you can’t break 80. What you therefore think you can do with teed up 190cc clubhead is laughable.. we all know what would happen in front of an audience, or if there was any significant pressure.

 

on my YouTube you’ll find 20 odd 4 irons in a row, all with the same ball flight. I can show you toptracer results also with 20 odd balls with half the average tour proximity from 175 yards. It is all beyond meaningless because they were in practice with no pressure.

 

this is also why prattling on about iron Byron is nonsensical. I don’t know why you can’t get this 

[MattC555]

1 hour ago, milesgiles said:

 

The circumstances are totally different. Me in a monthly medal, them with history and a 7 or 8 figure cheque on the line. One does not equate to the other even remotely 

 

Are you insinuating PGA Tour players can't hit their 3 woods effectively under pressure?  You know, that 43in club with a 190cc head that's identical in every way but loft to a late '80s early '90s driver....

 

I'll say it again - It appears you vastly underestimate the ball striking talent of PGA Tour professionals and some amateurs.

[clevited]

31 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Its not evidence though.

 

fact is at 125mph, or whatever you claim, you duff a shot on every hole if you can’t break 80. What you therefore think you can do with teed up 190cc clubhead is laughable.. we all know what would happen in front of an audience, or if there was any significant pressure.

 

on my YouTube you’ll find 20 odd 4 irons in a row, all with the same ball flight. I can show you toptracer results also with 20 odd balls with half the average tour proximity from 175 yards. It is all beyond meaningless because they were in practice with no pressure.

 

this is also why prattling on about iron Byron is nonsensical. I don’t know why you can’t get this 

 

I am not a pro, never claimed to be and nor are you.  With your logic you have no credibility either.  

 

The robot test is not nonsensical.  You need to test through various set ups IF it is possible to hit it just as long, hit it with as low of spin, test dispersion with an ideal swing that doesn't change at all before you give it to the human testers or at least simultaneously. it isn't hard to see the value in that.  And again, I will remind you, pros don't get scared of their 3 woods off the tee when the tourney is on the line.  Why can't you understand that?  If they aren't scared to find middle of that why would they be any different with a small driver head?  And please don't say your usual response of "then why not try it?", you are just trying to avoid answering the question when you do that.

[clevited]

11 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

Are you insinuating PGA Tour players can't hit their 3 woods effectively under pressure?  You know, that 43in club with a 190cc head that's identical in every way but loft to a late '80s early '90s driver....

 

I'll say it again - It appears you vastly underestimate the ball striking talent of PGA Tour professionals and some amateurs.

 

I wish he would swallow his pride and be more honest.  It could be a much more interesting and productive conversation I think if he was able to be more objective and admit where there are flaws in his logic.  Nothing more respectable and nothing gives you more credibility than being able to admit you are wrong.  All he has to do is say "ok you might have a point, if thats the case what if we add this or do that this way.....?". Some conversation with actual intent to find common ground would be cool.

[Titleist99]

25 minutes ago, MattC555 said:

 

Are you insinuating PGA Tour players can't hit their 3 woods effectively under pressure?  You know, that 43in club with a 190cc head that's identical in every way but loft to a late '80s early '90s driver....

 

I'll say it again - It appears you vastly underestimate the ball striking talent of PGA Tour professionals and some amateurs.

I highly suspect that he doesn't play golf at all.........LOL!

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, clevited said:

 

I am not a pro, never claimed to be and nor are you.  With your logic you have no credibility either.  

 

The robot test is not nonsensical.  You need to test through various set ups IF it is possible to hit it just as long, hit it with as low of spin, test dispersion with an ideal swing that doesn't change at all before you give it to the human testers or at least simultaneously. it isn't hard to see the value in that.  And again, I will remind you, pros don't get scared of their 3 woods off the tee when the tourney is on the line.  Why can't you understand that?  If they aren't scared to find middle of that why would they be any different with a small driver head?  And please don't say your usual response of "then why not try it?", you are just trying to avoid answering the question when you do that.

 

Theres a difference between my credibility and yours.

 

I say I DONT KNOW what the exact effect of a traditional sized clubhead will be. I certainly have a better idea than you as I’ve played with and watched a lot of top level golfers and you haven’t, but I DONT KNOW. That is a credible position.

 

You claim to KNOW traditional size drivers won’t have much or any effect. This is based on your own irrelevant anecdotal experience and a complete misconception of how often pro’s hit actually hit the sweetspot. Saying you KNOW it will make no difference is not a credible position. 

 

Neither, by the way, is claiming to be able to reliably hit a 190cc club off a high tee 300 plus in play and not being able to break 80. That is completely INcredible 

[milesgiles]

2 hours ago, Titleist99 said:

I highly suspect that he doesn't play golf at all.........LOL!

 

Whats the bet? What proof do you require? 

[Titleist99]

13 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Whats the bet? What proof do you require? 

None.....I don't care.    Your posts is all the proof I need.

[clevited]

39 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

Theres a difference between my credibility and yours.

 

I say I DONT KNOW what the exact effect of a traditional sized clubhead will be. I certainly have a better idea than you as I’ve played with and watched a lot of top level golfers and you haven’t, but I DONT KNOW. That is a credible position.

 

You claim to KNOW traditional size drivers won’t have much or any effect. This is based on your own irrelevant anecdotal experience and a complete misconception of how often pro’s hit actually hit the sweetspot. Saying you KNOW it will make no difference is not a credible position. 

 

Neither, by the way, is claiming to be able to reliably hit a 190cc club off a high tee 300 plus in play and not being able to break 80. That is completely INcredible 

 

Dude, I have played with and seen plenty of highly skilled golfers.  I do watch a TON of golf you know.  I actually enjoy analyzing and taking deep dives into the technology and performance side of things you know.  I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night which basically makes me an expert lol.

 

I don't' claim to KNOW necessarily, I claim to have strong evidence because I know what I can do as a midcapper, and I have scoured every video I can find to see how hard pros tend to hit their 3 woods.  I mean, I even try to find out the loft of the 3 wood, the length and the weight so I can get a decent idea of whether or not my hypothesis about them not being afraid to swing full with it is correct or not.  What do you do?  I am not sure how you can dismiss what I can do as a midcapper especially when I have no reason to lie or boast.  I am a MIDCAPPER, I would tell you I am scratch or something if I wanted to outright lie and pseudo win an arguement.  I maintain that if I can rattle off multiple high bombs with my 3 wood off a tee, a pro can as well or can learn to do the same.  I am not sure how that isn't some significant anecdotal evidence for you to consider much more seriously than you are.

 

You even made a thread a while back asking the long drive guys if they could still monster a driver off a short tee.  That was your first attempt at a solution and it got shot down so much by me and those guys that you finally moved on to this small headed driver.  I am telling you, you are misguided again and no amount of insulting a person's knowledge or creditability will make you right.

 

How about you go post this question in the long drive area again and see what those guys say.  Heck, don't we have a handful of used to be pro golfers on wrx that can chime in?  Poll them.  I am happy to see their points of view on it even if they agree with you.  Lets get some more voices to chime in, and see some new arguments or fresh data to better understand whether or not your idea has any merit.  So far, I have only seen one person partially back you up on here.  Does that mean anything?

 

 

[milesgiles]

1 hour ago, clevited said:

 

Dude, I have played with and seen plenty of highly skilled golfers.  I do watch a TON of golf you know.  I actually enjoy analyzing and taking deep dives into the technology and performance side of things you know.  I also stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night which basically makes me an expert lol.

 

I don't' claim to KNOW necessarily, I claim to have strong evidence because I know what I can do as a midcapper, and I have scoured every video I can find to see how hard pros tend to hit their 3 woods.  I mean, I even try to find out the loft of the 3 wood, the length and the weight so I can get a decent idea of whether or not my hypothesis about them not being afraid to swing full with it is correct or not.  What do you do?  I am not sure how you can dismiss what I can do as a midcapper especially when I have no reason to lie or boast.  I am a MIDCAPPER, I would tell you I am scratch or something if I wanted to outright lie and pseudo win an arguement.  I maintain that if I can rattle off multiple high bombs with my 3 wood off a tee, a pro can as well or can learn to do the same.  I am not sure how that isn't some significant anecdotal evidence for you to consider much more seriously than you are.

 

You even made a thread a while back asking the long drive guys if they could still monster a driver off a short tee.  That was your first attempt at a solution and it got shot down so much by me and those guys that you finally moved on to this small headed driver.  I am telling you, you are misguided again and no amount of insulting a person's knowledge or creditability will make you right.

 

How about you go post this question in the long drive area again and see what those guys say.  Heck, don't we have a handful of used to be pro golfers on wrx that can chime in?  Poll them.  I am happy to see their points of view on it even if they agree with you.  Lets get some more voices to chime in, and see some new arguments or fresh data to better understand whether or not your idea has any merit.  So far, I have only seen one person partially back you up on here.  Does that mean anything?

 

 

 

You'll find a few dozen younger  tour winners on youtube, including major winners, who have tried to hit steel shafted persimmon drivers on the range, and they all say the same thing.

 

You know better though 

Edited April 29, 2022 by milesgiles

[clevited]

22 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

You'll find a few dozen younger  tour winners on youtube, including major winners, who have tried to hit steel shafted persimmon drivers on the range, and they all say the same thing.

 

You know better though 

 

I do know better.  It takes some getting used to.  I have my own collection of old clubs, I know believe me.  It takes some getting used to the weight and size and it takes some testing to find where the actual sweet spot is (note it isn't always middle of the screws just like it isn't always in that middle circle on your modern driver).  Guys that I have seen that like to toy with them regularly can hit them really well, guys that are just picking them up randomly and hitting them are often going to struggle unless the weight and feel and flex etc suit their natural swing.

 

So you see, I do know better.  I try very hard to account for variables as best I can when I look at a problem.  I try to see the big picture and take in all those variables and details to help accurately piece it together.  You don't seem to do that at all and I would challenge you to do so.

 

BTW, we aren't talking about OLD PERSSIMMON!  We are talking about modern 3 wood sized head and its technology but with driver loft and length.  You keep jumping to a different subject.  That isn't at all what we are discussing here.

Edited April 29, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

21 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

I do know better.  It takes some getting used to.  I have my own collection of old clubs, I know believe me.  It takes some getting used to the weight and size and it takes some testing to find where the actual sweet spot is (note it isn't always middle of the screws just like it isn't always in that middle circle on your modern driver).  Guys that I have seen that like to toy with them regularly can hit them really well, guys that are just picking them up randomly and hitting them are often going to struggle unless the weight and feel and flex etc suit their natural swing.

 

So you see, I do know better.  I try very hard to account for variables as best I can when I look at a problem.  I try to see the big picture and take in all those variables and details to help accurately piece it together.  You don't seem to do that at all and I would challenge you to do so.

 

BTW, we aren't talking about OLD PERSSIMMON!  We are talking about modern 3 wood sized head and its technology but with driver loft and length.  You keep jumping to a different subject.  That isn't at all what we are discussing here.

 

When i hear just one of these pro's reckon the bigger sweetspot on the 460 isnt a significant advantage, I'll listen 

[Jim53]

As much as this thread is giving me a headache since it is like my grandaughter and her friend arguing over nonsense (right now) and screaming as little girls do (endlessly like this thread)

 

But I cannot look away, and even though I have been following from the beginning the fact that no matter what you do to the ball, Driver, Course, the stronger, faster more skilled players will always have an advantage.

 

It is just the rule of professional sports, you two being all lathered up is just entertaining. (to a point...)

[Titleist99]

45 minutes ago, Jim53 said:

As much as this thread is giving me a headache since it is like my grandaughter and her friend arguing over nonsense (right now) and screaming as little girls do (endlessly like this thread)

 

But I cannot look away, and even though I have been following from the beginning the fact that no matter what you do to the ball, Driver, Course, the stronger, faster more skilled players will always have an advantage.

 

It is just the rule of professional sports, you two being all lathered up is just entertaining. (to a point...)

Especially when one poster keeps moving the goal post.......(LOL!)

[Jim53]

50 minutes ago, Titleist99 said:

Especially when one poster keeps moving the goal post.......(LOL!)

It seems at this point it is just for fun and not knowing all of you in person its hard to say what is serious and what is just poking the bear. 

 

I do have quite a few friends from Barbados / UK and they do enjoy a good debate. The more rum involved the better, one fellow is from Liverpool and I talked with him for an hour and to this day have no idea what about.

Edited April 29, 2022 by Jim53

[clevited]

5 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

When i hear just one of these pro's reckon the bigger sweetspot on the 460 isnt a significant advantage, I'll listen 

 

Again, this isn't the point of the conversation.  Do you realize how difficult and toxic you act in most forums?  Geez lol.

 

The point of the conversation boils down to your idea not appreciably addressing the "problem".

 

-pros find middle of 3 woods just fine, and they don't hold back therefore they will hit 3w sized drivers just fine albeit with maybe a couple more wayward shots as I have told you a million times.

 

-Modern 3 woods spin low even at 15 degrees loft, a 3w sized driver at 10* or less will spin very low and therfore maximized distance is still going to be doable.

 

-Little ol midcapper me can hit a 3w with significant regularity off a 3/4 inch tee and bomb it.  Evidence that because there is a massive talent gap between me and a pro gives any normal person pause when it comes to what would be doable by tour pros with a 3w sized driver.

 

-Pros don't hold back proportionately with 3w.  I have shown you examples including my own abilities in this regard which again, leads me to believe a vastly more skillful pro can do better and with much more consistency.

 

I may be inclined to keep banging this drum until you cave and reformulate your "fix" to something more interesting and well thought out.  We shall see how frisky I am feeling these next several days 😉

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

17 hours ago, clevited said:

 

Again, this isn't the point of the conversation.  Do you realize how difficult and toxic you act in most forums?  Geez lol.

 

The point of the conversation boils down to your idea not appreciably addressing the "problem".

 

-pros find middle of 3 woods just fine, and they don't hold back therefore they will hit 3w sized drivers just fine albeit with maybe a couple more wayward shots as I have told you a million times.

 

even if you were right about them not holding back (you arent) id be fine with a couple more wayward shots. Arent you?

17 hours ago, clevited said:

 

-Modern 3 woods spin low even at 15 degrees loft, a 3w sized driver at 10* or less will spin very low and therfore maximized distance is still going to be doable.

 

'swinging flat out with a traditional sized driver was 100% a losing proposition' (Nick Price).  Yes they will optimise launch, but the high bomb over trouble becomes more risky

17 hours ago, clevited said:

 

-Little ol midcapper me can hit a 3w with significant regularity off a 3/4 inch tee and bomb it.  Evidence that because there is a massive talent gap between me and a pro gives any normal person pause when it comes to what would be doable by tour pros with a 3w sized driver.

If you are at 180 plus ball speed and cant break 80, most of them are going sideways. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be that fast, even slightly straight, and not be a good single figures player.  You are honestly deluded about your ability.

17 hours ago, clevited said:

 

-Pros don't hold back proportionately with 3w.  I have shown you examples including my own abilities in this regard which again, leads me to believe a vastly more skillful pro can do better and with much more consistency.

 

I may be inclined to keep banging this drum until you cave and reformulate your "fix" to something more interesting and well thought out.  We shall see how frisky I am feeling these next several days 😉

 

 

I have seen similar comments to Price by Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle and plenty of others. Any genuinely good player who played in both era will tell you the exact same thing. Find me ONE that doesnt. Just one.

[clevited]

2 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

even if you were right about them not holding back (you arent) id be fine with a couple more wayward shots. Arent you?

 

'swinging flat out with a traditional sized driver was 100% a losing proposition' (Nick Price).  Yes they will optimise launch, but the high bomb over trouble becomes more risky

If you are at 180 plus ball speed and cant break 80, most of them are going sideways. It is IMPOSSIBLE to be that fast, even slightly straight, and not be a good single figures player.  You are honestly deluded about your ability.

 

I have seen similar comments to Price by Faldo, Woosnam, Lyle and plenty of others. Any genuinely good player who played in both era will tell you the exact same thing. Find me ONE that doesnt. Just one.

 

-You are forgetting the point.  Your position is that the small 3w sized head will be all that is needed to address the distance "problem".  1 or 2 wayward shots doesn't make a dent, ergo, it doesn't fix anything.

 

-We have been over this. For one, you are referring to ye olden times, and once again jumping around instead of addressing the subject that we are talking about which is ONLY your idea that a 3w sized head would solve the "problem".  Back in the day, there were guys swinging "flat out", I prefer to call it a full swing though.  A "nuke" is the lingo I prefer to mean a player is basically giving it everything they have.  It is rare that any elite player is nuking during a tourney.  They might for fun during practice or casual round but rarely on tour.  At least you now admit they will optimize the for high bombs over trees, that is an improvement, good job. There is hope for you yet.  I disagree however that it will be appreciably more risky to do so.

 

-You are bringing up my abilities, and insulting me for being a faster than average midcapper.  I don't appreciate that but it seems to be your MO so I will just correct you again.  A person can be athletic with their golf swing and very fast yet not be a consistent golfer.  My swing, as I have said many times, is not a consistent one.  I have good days where I can shoot low 80s on a long and moderately difficult course slope is 138, and its 7200 yards as well as very exposed to wind with lots of water hazards.  I have bad days where I shoot in the 90s.  The difference?  Conditions for one but most of it is that I don't have a consistent swing and therfore shot shape on those particular outings.  You also have to realize, I am not the best at controlling spin, I am not the the most accurate, I putt just ok, I don't play the wind well, I chip ok.  In otherwords, I don't have all the skills needed to shoot at or below par.  

 

Because you choose to insult my handicap given my athletic ability, you obviously don't understand that there is much more to the game than distance.  You sort of prove the opposite point of what you are so against.  You seem to believe that hitting it long means you are automatically going to be a scratch golfer or something.  Reality shows how wrong you are.  Distance can compliment an already very skilled golfer, it doesn't make an unskilled golfer suddenly elite.

 

You also forget the context of me speaking of my ability.  The reason for me mentioning it at all is to show that if an above average fast midcapper can accomplish low spin, high launch and proportional to driver ball speed with a modern 3w, I believe that it heavily indicates that a pro could do it only much, much more consistenly and accurately.  This is all with context to the shrinking of a driver to 3w size. 

 

-You finish your post by again reference ye olden days.  Faldo isn't relevant in this conversation.  If you are saying all of this because you realize finally you are wrong about the 3w sized driver addressing the "problem" then perhaps you would like to revise it so it fits your vision.  You would literally have to try and make clubs crappy in order to get what you yearn for.  That or it would require a combination of things.  If you want to reformulate and come up with a more comprehensive plan that addresses what you invison golf should become, then I am all eyes and honestly interested to discuss.

Edited April 30, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

14 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

-You are forgetting the point.  Your position is that the small 3w sized head will be all that is needed to address the distance "problem".  1 or 2 wayward shots doesn't make a dent, ergo, it doesn't fix anything.

 

-We have been over this. For one, you are referring to ye olden times, and once again jumping around instead of addressing the subject that we are talking about which is ONLY your idea that a 3w sized head would solve the "problem".  Back in the day, there were guys swinging "flat out", I prefer to call it a full swing though.  A "nuke" is the lingo I prefer to mean a player is basically giving it everything they have.  It is rare that any elite player is nuking during a tourney.  They might for fun during practice or casual round but rarely on tour.  At least you now admit they will optimize the for high bombs over trees, that is an improvement, good job. There is hope for you yet.  I disagree however that it will be appreciably more risky to do so.

 

-You are bringing up my abilities, and insulting me for being a faster than average midcapper.  I don't appreciate that but it seems to be your MO so I will just correct you again.  A person can be athletic with their golf swing and very fast yet not be a consistent golfer.  My swing, as I have said many times, is not a consistent one.  I have good days where I can shoot low 80s on a long and moderately difficult course slope is 138, and its 7200 yards as well as very exposed to wind with lots of water hazards.  I have bad days where I shoot in the 90s.  The difference?  Conditions for one but most of it is that I don't have a consistent swing and therfore shot shape on those particular outings.  You also have to realize, I am not the best at controlling spin, I am not the the most accurate, I putt just ok, I don't play the wind well, I chip ok.  In otherwords, I don't have all the skills needed to shoot at or below par.  

 

Because you choose to insult my handicap given my athletic ability, you obviously don't understand that there is much more to the game than distance.  You sort of prove the opposite point of what you are so against.  You seem to believe that hitting it long means you are automatically going to be a scratch golfer or something.  Reality shows how wrong you are.  Distance can compliment an already very skilled golfer, it doesn't make an unskilled golfer suddenly elite.

 

You also forget the context of me speaking of my ability.  The reason for me mentioning it at all is to show that if an above average fast midcapper can accomplish low spin, high launch and proportional to driver ball speed with a modern 3w, I believe that it heavily indicates that a pro could do it only much, much more consistenly and accurately.  This is all with context to the shrinking of a driver to 3w size. 

 

-You finish your post by again reference ye olden days.  Faldo isn't relevant in this conversation.  If you are saying all of this because you realize finally you are wrong about the 3w sized driver addressing the "problem" then perhaps you would like to revise it so it fits your vision.  You would literally have to try and make clubs crappy in order to get what you yearn for.  That or it would require a combination of things.  If you want to reformulate and come up with a more comprehensive plan that addresses what you invison golf should become, then I am all eyes and honestly interested to discuss.

 

the question stands. Quote me one player that agrees with you.

[clevited]

1 minute ago, milesgiles said:

 

the question stands. Quote me one player that agrees with you.

 

Lmao, dude, this is a hypothetical you came up with that hardly anyone has contemplated and talked about at the professional level beyond passing conversation by the old has been announcers.  

 

You are deflecting, give me a better plan of attack to achieve your vision.  3w sized driver isn't going to help.  How about I steer you a little.

 

Would you limit loft?

Would you limit length?

Would you go back to steel shafts or require a minimum weight of the club?

Would you lower CT?

Would you also change the ball?

Would you also add in your 1/2 inch tee height limit?

Would you change the allowed material for making the club?

Would you require specific CG location of the clubhead?

Would you limit width of the club to something narrower than a modern 3 wood?

Would you limit face depth?

 

Give it a go, I want to see you realize your proposal that shrinking a driver to modern 3w size, with driver loft and length, materials etc etc won't work.  I want to see you formulate something that would.

[milesgiles]

On 4/29/2022 at 6:52 PM, Titleist99 said:

None.....I don't care.    Your posts is all the proof I need.

 

strong backtrack

 

dont offer people out if you arent going to back it up 

[milesgiles]

9 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Lmao, dude, this is a hypothetical you came up with that hardly anyone has contemplated and talked about at the professional level beyond passing conversation by the old has been announcers.  

 

You are deflecting, give me a better plan of attack to achieve your vision.  3w sized driver isn't going to help.  How about I steer you a little.

 

Would you limit loft?

Would you limit length?

Would you go back to steel shafts or require a minimum weight of the club?

Would you lower CT?

Would you also change the ball?

Would you also add in your 1/2 inch tee height limit?

Would you change the allowed material for making the club?

Would you require specific CG location of the clubhead?

Would you limit width of the club to something narrower than a modern 3 wood?

Would you limit face depth?

 

Give it a go, I want to see you realize your proposal that shrinking a driver to modern 3w size, with driver loft and length, materials etc etc won't work.  I want to see you formulate something that would.

 

dont you think its odd you cant find a pro to agree with you, and I can find dozens? If not hundreds?

 

the answer to your list, btw, is mostly no's and a couple of maybes 

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

dont you think its odd you cant find a pro to agree with you, and I can find dozens? If not hundreds?

 

the answer to your list, btw, is mostly no's and a couple of maybes 

 

The problem has not been discussed at all beyond passing conversation. Just because somebody mentions it (mostly faldo) doesn't mean it will work. You have to quantify more than just , "make the club smaller".

 

Please show me the quotes or YouTube videos that back your claim.  Keep in mind the context of what they are talking about, and keep in mind that they aren't any wiser than you or I with this.  In fact, unless people like Faldo go to the depths to understand the "problem" and all its variables and aren't just shooting from the hip to make conversation on tv, then what they say means little.

 

Regardless of the above, I would love to see those quotes and convos.  

[Titleist99]

58 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Lmao, dude, this is a hypothetical you came up with that hardly anyone has contemplated and talked about at the professional level beyond passing conversation by the old has been announcers.  

 

You are deflecting, give me a better plan of attack to achieve your vision.  3w sized driver isn't going to help.  How about I steer you a little.

 

Would you limit loft?

Would you limit length?

Would you go back to steel shafts or require a minimum weight of the club?

Would you lower CT?

Would you also change the ball?

Would you also add in your 1/2 inch tee height limit?

Would you change the allowed material for making the club?

Would you require specific CG location of the clubhead?

Would you limit width of the club to something narrower than a modern 3 wood?

Would you limit face depth?

 

Give it a go, I want to see you realize your proposal that shrinking a driver to modern 3w size, with driver loft and length, materials etc etc won't work.  I want to see you formulate something that would.

I tried to tell him that manufacturers could put the same technology that you mention above into a small 3 wood head if they wanted to, but he called it babbling......

 

Dollar to a doughnut that he has zero idea as to what you're talking about.....LOL!

[milesgiles]

6 hours ago, clevited said:

 

The problem has not been discussed at all beyond passing conversation. Just because somebody mentions it (mostly faldo) doesn't mean it will work. You have to quantify more than just , "make the club smaller".

 

Please show me the quotes or YouTube videos that back your claim.  Keep in mind the context of what they are talking about, and keep in mind that they aren't any wiser than you or I with this.  In fact, unless people like Faldo go to the depths to understand the "problem" and all its variables and aren't just shooting from the hip to make conversation on tv, then what they say means little.

 

Regardless of the above, I would love to see those quotes and convos.  

 

 

 

 

cliffs, almost no one can crack 300, various tops and squiffles, balls flying in every direction

[clevited]

8 hours ago, milesgiles said:

 

 

 

 

cliffs, almost no one can crack 300, various tops and squiffles, balls flying in every direction

 

Seen it, and discussed it in another thread.  Once again, this has nothing to do with your idea about modern 3 wood sized driver head, and you have not shown me your supporting quotes of these hundreds of players that are on your side.

 

Context is everything btw.  It was incredibly windy that day, they didn't get to practice with them at all, and they would be better suited to find one that best suited them like the golfers of ye olden times you admire so much.  One of the joys of modern golf clubs, they allow the more athletic to actually get what they deserve out of the club instead of its poor design holding them back.  I have a few wooden drivers, only one suits my swing and gives me pretty good numbers.  The others are too whippy, too light, or spin too much (too much loft).

 

How about I counter your video with this one.  Its interesting at the least how hard these guys can go after it and not worry anout wiffing or skying it off a tee.

 

 

Edited May 1, 2022 by clevited

[milesgiles]

31 minutes ago, clevited said:

 

Seen it, and discussed it in another thread.  Once again, this has nothing to do with your idea about modern 3 wood sized driver head, and you have not shown me your supporting quotes of these hundreds of players that are on your side.

 

Context is everything btw.  It was incredibly windy that day, they didn't get to practice with them at all, and they would be better suited to find one that best suited them like the golfers of ye olden times you admire so much.  One of the joys of modern golf clubs, they allow the more athletic to actually get what they deserve out of the club instead of its poor design holding them back.  I have a few wooden drivers, only when suits my swing and gives me pretty good numbers.  The others are too whippy, too light, or spin too much (too much loft).

 

How about I counter your video with this one.  Its interesting at the least how hard these guys can go after it and not worry anout wiffing or skying it off a tee.

 

 

 

they arent worried about whiffing it indoors on a LM with endless attempts?

 

I reject your reality

[clevited]

2 minutes ago, milesgiles said:

 

they arent worried about whiffing it indoors on a LM with endless attempts?

 

I reject your reality

 

When you have confidence in your ability, it is uncanny how it seems to show up under pressure.  As I said before, if your mental stability can't repeat a motion you have demonstrated confidence in and exceptional skill at performing, no club is going to fix that.  That is part of what makes or breaks people on tour, mental strength.  They seem to do just fine with 3w off the tee as I have said before, don't see them whipping out the driver because it is so easy to hit and control when 3w is the play.

 

When are you going to provide your quotes and list of hundreds that back up your idea of making drivers the size of 3w to tackle the distance "problem"?  I am starting to think you aren't a very honest person and at the very least, the most prideful and disingenuous person I have ever met online. 

 

I challenge you to set aside your pride and be honest for once. Admit your flawed vision and just revise it.  Detail those couple of maybes you gave me when I gave you that list of variables you could add to your idea.  I promise you, if you revise it, I will be happy to tell you I agree once you have thought it out more and come up with a better and more realistic fix to the "problem".  A more realistic and acceptable way to implement it would be a bonus as well cause just "try it" on the tour is daft imo.