Moveable weights in drivers......is fade always fade? Hear me out...

[PixlPutterman]

I normally play a fade, but it's less because I don't close the face....more because I'm slightly out to in AND because I slightly favor toe side of center strikes......

 

If I shift the weight to "draw".....and strike the ball toe side of center...... wouldn't that, if even the slightest amount.....make the face want to open at impact (horizontal gear effect?) since the weight bias isn't behind the point of contact on the face?

 

Hope that makes sense what I'm asking....

[tx33]

https://www.tutelman.com/golf/ballflight/gearEffect.php

 

All thing equal, a toe hit with CG towards heel increases gear effect > draw spin. Depending on release action more weight in the toe could delay face closure as well as reduce draw spin. CG in line with impact point should result in highest ball speed, but you might not like where the ball is going.

 

Depending on actual vs desired ball flight: adjust face/swing path alignment, reduce impact point spread, adjust CG to match.

 

EDIT: can't agree more on Howards post. Both form physics and experience. FWIW this fits me to a t:

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

...If your impact pattern is toe side, the highest PTR / smash, and straightest shots will be with a FADE bias driver, playing a Baby DRAW...

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by tx33
post

[Howard_Jones]

2 hours ago, PixlPutterman said:

I normally play a fade, but it's less because I don't close the face....more because I'm slightly out to in AND because I slightly favor toe side of center strikes......

 

If I shift the weight to "draw".....and strike the ball toe side of center...... wouldn't that, if even the slightest amount.....make the face want to open at impact (horizontal gear effect?) since the weight bias isn't behind the point of contact on the face?

 

Hope that makes sense what I'm asking....

The further away from COG we make impact, the more will the head twist and impart horizontal gear effect, but keep in mind that Face angle vs Path it part of it all. If your impact pattern is toe side, the highest PTR / smash, and straightest shots will be with a FADE bias driver, playing a Baby DRAW...Scroll to post #2
 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by Howard_Jones

[Stuart_G]

Both good answers.

 

But to put it another way.   The toe side impact is already reducing the amount you fade the ball due to face/path because of gear effect.   Assuming face-to-path doesn't change and impact tendencies don't change (not always good assumptions),  moving the weight to the draw position will result in a little more draw spin from gear effect and reduce the fade tendencies a little bit more.

 

But other things could happen.  However it's an easy test and you can always move it back if you don't like the results.  So never hurts to try.

[dsmil]

Toe side hits do open the face, but the important part is that it creates draw spin. So you must have an open face to path if you’re fading it with toe strikes. This draw spin would increase if you move the weight to the heel.  I’m a fader who is hitting center/toe side lately, and I’m sacrificing some smash factor for the sake of straightening my ball flight out by putting the weight in the heel.

[driveandputtmachine]

@Howard_Jones and @Stuart_G have science.  I have pure speculation for you, that was backed up later with science(Trackman) LOL

 

I stopped thinking that movable weights on drivers affected my closure rate around 10 years ago.  In my testing they absolutely do not affect it for me.

 

LUCKILY, I want to fade my driver, also luckily I tend to miss toe side.  Which isn't always lucky due to gear affect, but hang with me here.

 

What I found through experimentation was that moving the weight toe side did not affect how I closed the face in my swing, it thought it also resulted in SS or CoG moving toe side some and resulting in longer tee shots because my misses leak a little toe side.  I am not sure it is scientific, but my overall distance was higher with the weight out there.

 

--

 

Three years ago my club finally got a trackman, plus a teaching pro that new how to use it and he helped me validate that what I thought I was seeing was correct.  He did say at the time that from what he could remember that 50% or so of his students the movable weights didn't affect their closure rate, so he put the weight in line with their most common miss.

 

Now this means he saw 50% that the weights did affect their closure rate, so it is really player dependant. 

[Valtiel]

6 hours ago, PixlPutterman said:

I normally play a fade, but it's less because I don't close the face....more because I'm slightly out to in AND because I slightly favor toe side of center strikes......

 

If I shift the weight to "draw".....and strike the ball toe side of center...... wouldn't that, if even the slightest amount.....make the face want to open at impact (horizontal gear effect?) since the weight bias isn't behind the point of contact on the face?

 

Hope that makes sense what I'm asking....

I'm a little confused by draw vs. fade here and what you're question actually is. 

"...more because I'm slightly out to in AND because I slightly favor toe side of center strikes."

Out to in means your path is going a little right (for a lefty) but a toe strike would induce draw spin as Stewart mentioned, so the toe strike has nothing to do with creating a fade. That's probably not related to your point though, but it's of the terminology confusion, because...

"If I shift the weight to "draw".....and strike the ball toe side of center...... wouldn't that, if even the slightest amount.....make the face want to open at impact (horizontal gear effect?) since the weight bias isn't behind the point of contact on the face?"

The face will deflect slightly more away from the ball (open) when you miss anywhere on the toe, yes. The further that strike is from the actual CG location, the more/faster it will twist. Moving the CG *away* from that toe strike by shifting weight towards the heel would increase this effect, yes, but it feels like you're suggesting that the face opening = more fade, which is the opposite of what happens. When the ball is struck out of the toe, the face deflects back (open) while imparting the opposite rotational force on the ball, that's why it's called "gear effect". This is why the roll on the face points to the right out towards the toe, to help offset the startline of the draw spin created by striking it there. 

[PixlPutterman]

Thank you all for the science!