Has anyone actually fixed a flip? Did your scores go down?

[me05501]

On 10/5/2022 at 4:28 PM, Fuscinator said:

You could try a super strong lead hand grip, at least as an experiment. It's got built in shaft lean, and if you flip it, you'll kill anyone standing behind you. 

 

I've heard good pros recommend exactly the opposite. 

[jasonechambers]

On 10/5/2022 at 12:29 PM, TravAz said:

Hi guys - I am trying to prioritize my improvement. I'm currently somewhere in the single digits trying to get to scratch and have dreams of competing in age-appropriate local stuff. 

 

On camera, my irons have a vertical shaft at impact. I release the club decently and wouldn't call it a 'flip' but it is 'flippy'. On the plus side, I hit laser straight, towering iron shots that will hold any green. On the down side, I feel like I am leaving 15yd on the table based on ball speeds and launch angles etc and wind is not my friend. That being said, I will give myself 5-8 descent looks at birdie per round ( < 20ft) in a good round, but I can have really bad rounds too so there are consistency gains to be had as well. Overall though, I feel like I have achieved some level of "functional". 

 

My shortgame and putting also need a bunch of attention. Like ALOT. 

 

I've tried to fix the impact position (its actually improved quite a bit). I feel like it is such a massive change though, I am questioning if it is worth it. Switching seems like it would take tons of practice and then figure out when\how to take it to the course etc. 

 

What is your experience, WRX? If you have fixed a flip, how did you do it, how long did it take, and was it worth it from a scoring perspective?

I just fixed mine in the past month and my scores have not gone down. I gained 30 yards of distance off the tee but I’m hitting more drives OB because my miss is long left instead of short right now. 
 

I also hit those high, fading, relatively straight approach shots that stuck the green with the flip. With a lower trajectory, I struggle to stick the green. 
 

The fix for me was getting my weight forward in the downswing, per my pro’s recommendation. I feel more stable when I keep the weight in my back foot. So I spent all summer practicing the shift at the range, stretching to get more mobility in my hips, and practicing my weight shift without a club in the house until I stopped losing my balance. 

[TravAz]

2 hours ago, jasonechambers said:

I just fixed mine in the past month and my scores have not gone down. I gained 30 yards of distance off the tee but I’m hitting more drives OB because my miss is long left instead of short right now. 
 

I also hit those high, fading, relatively straight approach shots that stuck the green with the flip. With a lower trajectory, I struggle to stick the green. 
 

The fix for me was getting my weight forward in the downswing, per my pro’s recommendation. I feel more stable when I keep the weight in my back foot. So I spent all summer practicing the shift at the range, stretching to get more mobility in my hips, and practicing my weight shift without a club in the house until I stopped losing my balance. 

Thanks for the input! I’m pretty used to finding my ball within a foot or two of it’s pitch mark, so it would be a huge adjustment. Probably worth it for 15+ yd though 🙂 

 

I’m sure your scores will drop when you get used to the new flight. Maybe you can play a spinny-er ball now to compensate?

[spineshank]

I have fixed it by flaring my lead foot out. This has allowed me to shift my weight better forward in the downswing and im striking the ball much better and hitting it farther. 

[TravAz]

12 minutes ago, spineshank said:

I have fixed it by flaring my lead foot out. This has allowed me to shift my weight better forward in the downswing and im striking the ball much better and hitting it farther. 

Funny you mention that one. I noticed Ryan Fox had some pretty good flare happening in this video: 🤔 see the swing about 55 sec in. This much flare? One of the top things on my “fix list” is my left leg action, maybe I need  to  give this a go…

 

 

[jasonechambers]

1 hour ago, TravAz said:

Thanks for the input! I’m pretty used to finding my ball within a foot or two of it’s pitch mark, so it would be a huge adjustment. Probably worth it for 15+ yd though 🙂 

 

I’m sure your scores will drop when you get used to the new flight. Maybe you can play a spinny-er ball now to compensate?

Yeah, I think it’ll just take some time to adjust to the new swing. I’m pretty happy with the extra distance. 
 

And I’ll take your point about different golf balls. That’s a good idea. 

[golfarb1]

3 hours ago, spineshank said:

I have fixed it by flaring my lead foot out. This has allowed me to shift my weight better forward in the downswing and im striking the ball much better and hitting it farther. 

Flaring the lead foot causes the arch of the lead foot to pronate or flatten . 
To keep the arch of lead foot from collapsing , your shinbones( tibia + fibula ) will then INTERNALLY ( inward) rotate .

To counteract your shinbones from rotating inward , your thigh bone ( femur) will rotate externally .

External hip rotation  is defined as external rotation of the femur and is 

INTEGRAL to PELVIS rotation in the downswing 

Because flipping is usually accompanied  with stalling rotation of your pelvis in the impact zone, actions LIKE FLARING OUT  the LEAD FOOT which results in more external hip rotation which in turn encourages more  pelvis rotation , are a key to eliminating the flip. 
You might also want to try setting up with a slightly open stance VIA pulling back your lead foot 1” away from the target line . Doing  so will preset the position of your lead hip socket  away from the target line . This will facilitate pelvic “ rotation” going down

Edited October 28, 2022 by golfarb1

[MK7Golf21]

4 hours ago, golfarb1 said:

Flaring the lead foot causes the arch of the lead foot to pronate or flatten . 
To keep the arch of lead foot from collapsing , your shinbones( tibia + fibula ) will then INTERNALLY ( inward) rotate .

To counteract your shinbones from rotating inward , your thigh bone ( femur) will rotate externally .

External hip rotation  is defined as external rotation of the femur and is 

INTEGRAL to PELVIS rotation in the downswing 

Because flipping is usually accompanied  with stalling rotation of your pelvis in the impact zone, actions LIKE FLARING OUT  the LEAD FOOT which results in more external hip rotation which in turn encourages more  pelvis rotation , are a key to eliminating the flip. 
You might also want to try setting up with a slightly open stance VIA pulling back your lead foot 1” away from the target line . Doing  so will preset the position of your lead hip socket  away from the target line . This will facilitate pelvic “ rotation” going down

 

The only problem with pulling the lead foot away from the target line is it will start to limit getting depth on the backswing and promote more out to in path across the ball. Better players not much of an issue but am's could struggle since they already have a hard time slicing. I word the ball this way, I pull my lead foot back for cut, draw pull the trail foot back.

Edited October 28, 2022 by MK7Golf21

[mfitzy]

Flips are caused because something stalls during the downswing. The body or chest slows more than the arms.  When that happens your hands have to take over and the flip happens.  There is a cause and effect for everything.  If you work on turning through the shot.  Your hands will lead and your wrists/hands will not have to work

[spineshank]

On 10/28/2022 at 10:46 AM, TravAz said:

Funny you mention that one. I noticed Ryan Fox had some pretty good flare happening in this video: 🤔 see the swing about 55 sec in. This much flare? One of the top things on my “fix list” is my left leg action, maybe I need  to  give this a go…

 

 

 

I wouldn't say that much. But i would definitely say its 45 degrees maybe slightly more. I am also what you would call "duck footed" which is actually in relation to your pelvis. So I was essentially always taught to have a closed left foot vs what is neutral to most. And ive been playing for 24 years now, plenty of instruction. Been a single digit handicap for years but always flipped. It was really just the other week that i started flaring the foot. Dont even know what possessed me to do it. And yes ive been back to the range and played numerous times so it definitely does not appear to be a random "I found something!" on the range moment.

[Thinset]

On 10/5/2022 at 10:29 AM, TravAz said:

Hi guys - I am trying to prioritize my improvement. I'm currently somewhere in the single digits trying to get to scratch and have dreams of competing in age-appropriate local stuff. 

 

On camera, my irons have a vertical shaft at impact. I release the club decently and wouldn't call it a 'flip' but it is 'flippy'. On the plus side, I hit laser straight, towering iron shots that will hold any green. On the down side, I feel like I am leaving 15yd on the table based on ball speeds and launch angles etc and wind is not my friend. That being said, I will give myself 5-8 descent looks at birdie per round ( < 20ft) in a good round, but I can have really bad rounds too so there are consistency gains to be had as well. Overall though, I feel like I have achieved some level of "functional". 

 

I've tried to fix the impact position (its actually improved quite a bit). I feel like it is such a massive change though, I am questioning if it is worth it. Switching seems like it would take tons of practice and then figure out when\how to take it to the course etc. 

 

What is your experience, WRX? If you have fixed a flip, how did you do it, how long did it take, and was it worth it from a scoring perspective?

I've read this whole thread, and I don't think you've provided enough information.  

Describe in detail how and where you grip the long clubs.  

You're a righty, yes?  Do you pull the short irons to your left more often than you like for where you aim?  

 

My initial sense is that you could be blocking the shot, forcing you to flip the club head through the ball.  You could be blocking the shot by not having your hips open enough, your shoulders may be too square (parallel to the target line) at impact, you're not "reaching" for the ball at all (you may be "shortening" your arms on the downswing), and you may be "sliding" into position to make contact.  Also, maybe insufficient transition into your follow-through (you could be "braking" and not following through as part of the swing).  And you may be employing a weak (aka clap-hands) grip, to boot.  

 

I wouldn't worry about flaring your front foot any more, I wouldn't think you'd want to mess with your balance, here.  

 

I don't know how anyone would know without detailed pictures or video...  

 

and yeah, I fixed it, and my scores went down.

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Thinset

[ac6]

1 hour ago, Thinset said:

I don't know how anyone would know without detailed pictures or video...  

 

Just realized he's the same guy who posted this thread: 

 

[TravAz]

AC

2 hours ago, ac6 said:

 

Just realized he's the same guy who posted this thread: 

 

 

I wanted to keep the threads separate - This thread was supposed to be about the time required and the results and the decision-making process about what to work on in your game. Sort of akin to the "Short game the best way to break 80" thread. Anyone who has viewed both knows how bad my action is and the seemingly insurmountable pile of flaws and the massive task of fixing it. That being said, I average 50% gir, so would my time be better spent cleaning up my pitching (already a good putter and decent chipper) or trying to hit more greens? Etc...

 

As I kind of expected, I didnt get any definitive answers like "Yea, I worked hard on my swing for 2 months, fixed my flip and I went from a 6 to a 2...". I know everything is relative and personal and blah blah blah but was wondering where the unicorns were hiding. 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by TravAz

[Thinset]

4 hours ago, ac6 said:

 

Just realized he's the same guy who posted this thread: 

Thanks, ac6.  

Just to be clear, I did not post in that "Fix me, WRX" thread.  

I'm innocent 😐.  

OTOH, I didn't go looking for a previous thread like this by him before I posted  here, either.

 

Edited November 2, 2022 by Thinset