Classics in club tournaments

[chazpet]

Hi all, I plan on gaming my 84-86 Wilson Staff blades next year and couldn’t be more excited! I am playing in my first club tournament in June, do these events typically require conforming grooves? 

[NRJyzr]

2 hours ago, chazpet said:

Hi all, I plan on gaming my 84-86 Wilson Staff blades next year and couldn’t be more excited! I am playing in my first club tournament in June, do these events typically require conforming grooves? 

 

In the USA, no.  It's only until you get to the highest levels of amateur play, or pro tourneys, where the Condition of Competition is invoked, and you need to worry about conformity.  Generally speaking.  🙂

 

The Line Under Tour Blades are not on the list, but it's quite likely they conform, or would pass if/when tested.  The first square grooved Eye2 irons only arrived on the scene at the end of 1984.  Other companies didn't instantly adopt them, so the Line Under set almost certainly has V grooves, and would therefore be conforming, provided they weren't altered (like using a groove sharpener, ugh) or regrooved.

 

78 Staffs and FG-17s would also fit this group.  Quite possibly, the Fluid Feels of the late 80s could fit here, also.

 

There are some sets that are surprising in being on the conforming list.  The less surprising are the MP33, MP32, and MP37, but there are other interesting additions, from assorted companies.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by NRJyzr

[chazpet]

@NRJyzr would never disgrace these beauties with a groove sharpener 🤣

 

[NRJyzr]

8 minutes ago, chazpet said:

@NRJyzr would never disgrace these beauties with a groove sharpener 🤣

 

 

Always have to be on the lookout for possible previous owners.  😉

 

[Jiggered]

I'm in the UK so may be different, but as NRJyzr says, for club competitions I don't think you'll have any problems.

 

I've been playing only Classics for 4 years now and apart from people looking at me like I'm a bit mad I've had no issues, even playing in open competitions and team matches at other clubs.

 

I use clubs from the 1930s through to the 1980s in competitions, if anyone questions them then I ask who is getting the most help from their clubs, me with 40+ year old designs or them with their all singing all dancing techno rocket launchers?

 

One thing to be wary of though; I played a couple of competition rounds with old clubs but quickly decided that if I were to keep switching between modern and classic then in effect I'd be manipulating my handicap as it would likely go up a bit when using older technology. If I then went back to modern for an important competition my handicap wouldn't be a true reflection and so I committed to only playing classics, which was great as I enjoy playing them far more!

[No_Catchy_Nickname]

1 hour ago, Jiggered said:

I use clubs from the 1930s through to the 1980s in competitions, if anyone questions them then I ask who is getting the most help from their clubs, me with 40+ year old designs or them with their all singing all dancing techno rocket launchers?

 

 

This is exactly how I feel about it. 

[Hickory4ever]

I have two handicaps, one for hickory clubs, the other for “modern” which in my case includes classics. Both handicaps are with Golf Canada, our governing body. The difference between the two is between 3 and 4 points, largely driven by the lower ratings of the shorter tee boxes. It really doesn’t matter to me as I don’t play in any competition where net scores are in play. With Classics, the difference would be less than 2 points.

 

Like Jigger and No_Catchy_Nickname, I much prefer playing vintage clubs for similar reasons.

Edited December 31, 2022 by Hickory4ever

[ColinKelvin]

On 12/31/2022 at 11:05 AM, Jiggered said:

I'm in the UK so may be different, but as NRJyzr says, for club competitions I don't think you'll have any problems.

 

I've been playing only Classics for 4 years now and apart from people looking at me like I'm a bit mad I've had no issues, even playing in open competitions and team matches at other clubs.

 

I use clubs from the 1930s through to the 1980s in competitions, if anyone questions them then I ask who is getting the most help from their clubs, me with 40+ year old designs or them with their all singing all dancing techno rocket launchers?

 

One thing to be wary of though; I played a couple of competition rounds with old clubs but quickly decided that if I were to keep switching between modern and classic then in effect I'd be manipulating my handicap as it would likely go up a bit when using older technology. If I then went back to modern for an important competition my handicap wouldn't be a true reflection and so I committed to only playing classics, which was great as I enjoy playing them far more!

 

Interesting post.  I'm in the UK too (10 handicap_ and while I don't play in many club competitions / opens, I tend to take the non-conforming clubs out of my bag when I do (just a vague fear of being challenged or disapproved of, I suppose).  My bag is modern - except for my trusty wedges, the mainstay being an Eye 2 becu LW (square grooves), and sometimes an eye 2+ becu SW and a Zing 2 becu LW instead of the Eye 2.  I occasionally also take an Eye 2 or Zing 1-iron when I play links courses.  My short game is a strength, so arguably the extra spin I just might get from these may be a small benefit.  Maybe I should stop worrying and just take them along to comps too?

[Jiggered]

1 hour ago, ColinKelvin said:

 

Interesting post.  I'm in the UK too (10 handicap_ and while I don't play in many club competitions / opens, I tend to take the non-conforming clubs out of my bag when I do (just a vague fear of being challenged or disapproved of, I suppose).  My bag is modern - except for my trusty wedges, the mainstay being an Eye 2 becu LW (square grooves), and sometimes an eye 2+ becu SW and a Zing 2 becu LW instead of the Eye 2.  I occasionally also take an Eye 2 or Zing 1-iron when I play links courses.  My short game is a strength, so arguably the extra spin I just might get from these may be a small benefit.  Maybe I should stop worrying and just take them along to comps too?

 

I'd consider square grooves as a separate issue as they were specifically banned by the rules bodies. 

 

I don't know exactly which models feature the banned grooves and neither do I know what their standing is now with the rules bodies, but the section on checking grooves is very detailed!

 

I don't play any Ping clubs anyway so it doesn't really affect me.

[NRJyzr]

5 minutes ago, Jiggered said:

 

I'd consider square grooves as a separate issue as they were specifically banned by the rules bodies. 

 

I don't know exactly which models feature the banned grooves and neither do I know what their standing is now with the rules bodies, but the section on checking grooves is very detailed!

 

I don't play any Ping clubs anyway so it doesn't really affect me.

 

Actually, square grooves aren't banned, the new rule addresses groove volume.  You can have square grooves, they just need to have a lesser overall volume (per club face) than was previously allowed.  

 

I'm not sure how the Eye2 are treated by the R&A, compared to the USGA here in the US.  Under the USGA, the Eye2 are allowed as the settlement to the litigation in the late 90s.  For the R&A, my impression is the Eye2 were allowed for 10 years, and then were/are no longer conforming.

 

Hoping someone can help clarify that, it largely predates my golf existence.

 

[chrism]

Ping have a great resource for their conforming/non-conforming variations of different models:

 

https://ping.com/en-us/legal/groove-rule

[st1800e]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:12 AM, Hickory4ever said:

I have two handicaps, one for hickory clubs, the other for “modern” which in my case includes classics. Both handicaps are with Golf Canada, our governing body. The difference between the two is between 3 and 4 points, largely driven by the lower ratings of the shorter tee boxes. It really doesn’t matter to me as I don’t play in any competition where net scores are in play. With Classics, the difference would be less than 2 points.

 

Like Jigger and No_Catchy_Nickname, I much prefer playing vintage clubs for similar reasons.

I wasn’t aware that a player could have 2 handicaps, is there some obscure rule or special consideration you have?  

[st1800e]

In respect of Pings, I have a set of ping Eye 2+ which I’m thinking to put back into play.  Looks like they’re grandfathered until 2024, not sure if that’s Jan 1 or Dec 31.  
 

“Conform until at least 2024 at nearly all non-professional events played under the R&A and/or the USGA Rules of Golf;”

 

Wondering if that deadline will be extended?  

[Hickory4ever]

5 hours ago, st1800e said:

I wasn’t aware that a player could have 2 handicaps, is there some obscure rule or special consideration you have?  

Golf Canada has been the first national body to set up a separate hickory handicap for members of the Golf Historical Society of Canada. There are currently about 25 players registered for hickory.

[84425]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:59 PM, Jiggered said:

 

I'd consider square grooves as a separate issue as they were specifically banned by the rules bodies. 

 

I don't know exactly which models feature the banned grooves and neither do I know what their standing is now with the rules bodies, but the section on checking grooves is very detailed!

 

I don't play any Ping clubs anyway so it doesn't really affect me.

You could always pick up an eye2 XG wedge off ebay. Those were made after 2010 with conforming grooves. No becu, but same shape and grind as the old eye2’s. 

[BIG STU]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:21 AM, NRJyzr said:

 

In the USA, no.  It's only until you get to the highest levels of amateur play, or pro tourneys, where the Condition of Competition is invoked, and you need to worry about conformity.  Generally speaking.  🙂

 

The Line Under Tour Blades are not on the list, but it's quite likely they conform, or would pass if/when tested.  The first square grooved Eye2 irons only arrived on the scene at the end of 1984.  Other companies didn't instantly adopt them, so the Line Under set almost certainly has V grooves, and would therefore be conforming, provided they weren't altered (like using a groove sharpener, ugh) or regrooved.

 

78 Staffs and FG-17s would also fit this group.  Quite possibly, the Fluid Feels of the late 80s could fit here, also.

 

There are some sets that are surprising in being on the conforming list.  The less surprising are the MP33, MP32, and MP37, but there are other interesting additions, from assorted companies.

 

The reason the MP series you mentioned are on the list as conforming besides the fact they really are is because someone submitted them for testing. When this groove crap ( and I said crap too) came into being a lot of Tour players and top AMs were playing MP series sticks. Same with the 99 Hogan Apex. All of my Macs are legal if I would submit them. About 2 years ago I won a $50 bet on the 99 Apex. This blowhard said they could not be legal because they were made in 99. I bet him and my pro pulled up the conforming list and there they were. Someone had submitted them for testing. The guy was puzzled but he paid off.

As far as a club comp etc if they allowed someone to call me on the older clubs then personally I would not play in it to begin with. But then again I drew my line in the sand on the mess some 10 years ago now. I also think this is priceless too. 99% of us on here can beat most golfers with our persimmon and blades with the other guys playing the newest whiz bang equipment. 

[bcstones]

On 1/6/2023 at 9:48 AM, ColinKelvin said:

 

Interesting post.  I'm in the UK too (10 handicap_ and while I don't play in many club competitions / opens, I tend to take the non-conforming clubs out of my bag when I do (just a vague fear of being challenged or disapproved of, I suppose).  My bag is modern - except for my trusty wedges, the mainstay being an Eye 2 becu LW (square grooves), and sometimes an eye 2+ becu SW and a Zing 2 becu LW instead of the Eye 2.  I occasionally also take an Eye 2 or Zing 1-iron when I play links courses.  My short game is a strength, so arguably the extra spin I just might get from these may be a small benefit.  Maybe I should stop worrying and just take them along to comps too?

Play what ever suits you (& bring along those extra "conforming" ones)...let "them" disapprove however "they" wish, let "them" challenge. Just go out and have fun playing!

Tell "them" to take a jump in the water hazard or go wallow in the bunkers.