Old School Shafts

[JDennis]

10 hours ago, Booker said:

I have a 70tx xt and a 50tx xt,  it's a very stout feeling beast. Extremely stable you can give it everything you have. Pretty sure Fleetwood and Jason day still play them. 

 

 

I know Jason Day has played the XT when he was healthier, but in the past few years has gone back to the good ol Gen 2 KK silver tini. I think Fleetwood uses the gen 2 as well. 

[Booker]

23 hours ago, JDennis said:

 

 

I know Jason Day has played the XT when he was healthier, but in the past few years has gone back to the good ol Gen 2 KK silver tini. I think Fleetwood uses the gen 2 as well. 

Whatever version this is, is Jason's shaft in all his fairways current as of wells Fargo. 

[rbpwrx]

On 5/6/2023 at 9:26 AM, Howard_Jones said:

In my driver i play the EVO version of the OG BLUE - Grafalloy ProLaunch RED AXIS. OG BLUE players should look for that model, now discontinued, but its "even better" then the OG BLUE due to the advanced carbonfiber frame.

 

Howard, is the ProLaunch RED AXIS also 'fat' in diameter, like the OG Blue?

I really LOVED my OG Blue X, installed up to the hilt in a thru-bore 905S head (tour issue club), that had almost zero parallel section above the ferrule. That thing was @ completely tipped .

I realize that one of the reasons I liked it so much was that the shaft looked so thick. For me, confidence-inspiring. I hate the look of that spindly 0.335" neck.

The HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX is also a fat shaft (at least in the hybrid). Another favorite of mine.

If the Red Axis is not 'fat,' do you know any other low/low shafts that are oversized through the mid section? (NOT interested in 'bubble' shafts.)

Thanks!

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Howard, is the ProLaunch RED AXIS also 'fat' in diameter, like the OG Blue?

I really LOVED my OG Blue X, installed up to the hilt in a thru-bore 905S head (tour issue club), that had almost zero parallel section above the ferrule. That thing was @ completely tipped .

I realize that one of the reasons I liked it so much was that the shaft looked so thick. For me, confidence-inspiring. I hate the look of that spindly 0.335" neck.

The HZRDUS Smoke Black RDX is also a fat shaft (at least in the hybrid). Another favorite of mine.

If the Red Axis is not 'fat,' do you know any other low/low shafts that are oversized through the mid section? (NOT interested in 'bubble' shafts.)

Thanks!

I never mesured the taper to see if its any wider than others, and butt size is the norm of 0.600
Its the shaft profile thats identical, i cant answer your question here, i never compared that.

Its when we compare them as zone flex we see it

[rbpwrx]

8 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

I never mesured the taper to see if its any wider than others, and butt size is the norm of 0.600
Its the shaft profile thats identical, i cant answer your question here, i never compared that.

Its when we compare them as zone flex we see it

Yes, I see the similarities between RED AXIS X and OG 65 Blue. But Blue X is significantly stiffer everywhere except the tip, no? What's the difference between 65X and original X? I thought all OG Blues were 63g??

[Howard_Jones]

55 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

Yes, I see the similarities between RED AXIS X and OG 65 Blue. But Blue X is significantly stiffer everywhere except txhe tip, no? What's the difference between 65X and original X? I thought all OG Blues were 63g??

The shaft in the bottom of the list is the 75 gram version of BLUE X, and thats stronger than the 64 gram

The compare should be done as a difference in % like this

Edited May 12, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[jholz]

I started this thread, so I suppose it is only proper that I offer a follow up.

 

Unfortunately, my experiment didn't work out. 

 

I thought a tipped "R" flex UST/Mamiya V2 might give me a good combo of flex and dispersion - but holy crap was I wrong.

 

Thing was loose from the start. Big hooks all day long. Played it twice and both times quickly reverted to my G30 3w (GD-DI 7x) off the tee after about two holes. 

 

Clearly, this shaft was not the best decision I've made in my life. But hey, that's how life goes...

 

Looking at the performance I've achieved, I'm assuming - as all WRXer's do - that I am overpowering the "R" flex V2. Might have been better served going with the S or even TX. Could also be a rhythm or swing sequence issue too - but seriously this is WRX. Clearly the shaft just can't handle my golfing prowess. 

 

Yeah, whatever...I don't know precisely what to think.

 

But, at the end of the day:

 

1. I successfully prepped a shaft and installed an adapter - first time! Head did not come flying off at the driving range or on course.

2. I suck at fitting myself.

3. It only cost me about $130 (shaft, ferrules, epoxy)

4. Killed about 10 (non-golfing) hours (in total)

 

Victory all around!

 

 

 

 

Edited May 12, 2023 by jholz

[altess27]

Not that old school but I play the Aldila Tour Green in my driver. Tried many others but this still works best. 

 

[me05501]

I used to have a buddy with some tour van connections and from time to time he'd end up with some surplus raw shafts that I'd help him sell on ebay or forums. Thinking back to around the 1999/2001 timeframe he got a few Fujikura VistaPro's and I think they moved for around $200 which was a lot at that time (most new drivers were $299). 

 

That was also about the time that OEM's started offering a selection of shaft choices at retail. The green True Temper EI shaft and the yellow/purple ProLaunch were in a bunch of 975D's. 

 

As the consumer became more educated about shafts there was a lot more money thrown at design and manufacturing. 

[rbpwrx]

1 hour ago, jholz said:

I started this thread, so I suppose it is only proper that I offer a follow up.

 

Unfortunately, my experiment didn't work out. 

 

I thought a tipped "R" flex UST/Mamiya V2 might give me a good combo of flex and dispersion - but holy crap was I wrong.

 

Thing was loose from the start. Big hooks all day long. Played it twice and both times quickly reverted to my G30 3w (GD-DI 7x) off the tee after about two holes. 

 

Clearly, this shaft was not the best decision I've made in my life. But hey, that's how life goes...

 

Looking at the performance I've achieved, I'm assuming - as all WRXer's do - that I am overpowering the "R" flex V2. Might have been better served going with the S or even TX. Could also be a rhythm or swing sequence issue too - but seriously this is WRX. Clearly the shaft just can't handle my golfing prowess. 

 

Yeah, whatever...I don't know precisely what to think.

 

But, at the end of the day:

 

1. I successfully prepped a shaft and installed an adapter - first time! Head did not come flying off at the driving range or on course.

2. I suck at fitting myself.

3. It only cost me about $130 (shaft, ferrules, epoxy)

4. Killed about 10 (non-golfing) hours (in total)

 

Victory all around!

 

Curious why an R-flex V2 when you play X in the DI?

 

I know for me even most X-flexes feel different from TX, and that's supposedly a small jump. (I do NOT have tremendous speed, nor golfing prowess, but I load the shaft pretty heavily. For me, TX shafts tend to feel snappier and tighter than X, or certainly S. Not necessarily 'stiffer.'

 

I suspect you'd have a markedly different experience with a V2 in X.

[rbpwrx]

1 hour ago, Howard_Jones said:

The shaft in the bottom of the list is the 75 gram version of BLUE X, and thats stronger than the 64 gram

The compare should be done as a difference in % like this

 

How do you know if you have a 65 or 75g OG Blue? Grip end sticker?

[jholz]

50 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

 

Curious why an R-flex V2 when you play X in the DI?

 

I know for me even most X-flexes feel different from TX, and that's supposedly a small jump. (I do NOT have tremendous speed, nor golfing prowess, but I load the shaft pretty heavily. For me, TX shafts tend to feel snappier and tighter than X, or certainly S. Not necessarily 'stiffer.'

 

I suspect you'd have a markedly different experience with a V2 in X.

 

The only excuse that I have is the fact that I am a "garden variety idiot." Just trying to make educated guesses in the vacuum of real (and rather expensive) data.

 

Not everyone has the time or money to do a legitimate fitting with someone who "truly" knows what they are doing. We have to cobble it together from limited information. Or...some of us "deliberately" choose to cobble it together on our own. 

 

But, to speak of my philosophy with these decisions - I'm essentially trying to find a happy medium between distance and control.

 

Heavier, stouter shafts provide me with control - and I love it.

 

But, wouldn't a slightly more active shaft give me a bit more distance? Wouldn't it fit with my aging swing a bit better?

 

The jury is decidedly out on those issues....

[AB1981]

Several times have tested whatever old driver I dug up that I happen to be playing, normally something with a 6x or 7x original Whiteboard or Blueboard, against all the new stuff at several demo days.  Yet to have a rep put something noticeably better in my hands.  The original aftermarket Blueboards are my favorite, I am in the process of building up a stockpile of them.  

[rbpwrx]

15 hours ago, jholz said:

 

The only excuse that I have is the fact that I am a "garden variety idiot." Just trying to make educated guesses in the vacuum of real (and rather expensive) data.

 

Not everyone has the time or money to do a legitimate fitting with someone who "truly" knows what they are doing. We have to cobble it together from limited information. Or...some of us "deliberately" choose to cobble it together on our own. 

 

But, to speak of my philosophy with these decisions - I'm essentially trying to find a happy medium between distance and control.

 

Heavier, stouter shafts provide me with control - and I love it.

 

But, wouldn't a slightly more active shaft give me a bit more distance? Wouldn't it fit with my aging swing a bit better?

 

The jury is decidedly out on those issues....

it's interesting, I went through something similar a number of years ago. I went softer looking for a more "active" feel. But it turned out I was going the wrong way!

 

TX Shafts have changed my life. I'm 58, and don't have a ton of speed, but the feeling I was looking for is, it turns out, a very stiff shaft.

 

That doesn't mean it doesn't load. You can push a TX against the floor and see it deflect quite a lot. These things move.

 

Another revelation has been weight. Turns out I really like heavy iron shafts, 130g, even more in the wedges, and I like that weight all the way down thru driving iron.

 

But anything over 40 inches, I want  progressively lighter.

 

Currently gaming 105 TX hybrid, 85TX 3W, and 65TX driver.

 

You can perform a cheap fitting on yourself by assembling a bunch of 7 irons with different usedshafts to find your ideal steel.

 

And good wood shafts are very cheap these days. I won't spend more than 30 bucks on a component, but I'm playing stuff the pros were gaming just a few years ago. Rahm still plays my tour greens!

 

But anyway, sounds like you dipped a toe in, now jump off the deep end! 

Edited May 13, 2023 by rbpwrx

[Howard_Jones]

10 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

How do you know if you have a 65 or 75g OG Blue? Grip end sticker?

My memory say they are marked 75 X where the 63 grams only say R, S,  S* or X
S* is really R flex for sale to Tour players (yes they was fooled to think it was S, since R was not for them you know)

[Stuart_G]

16 hours ago, jholz said:

But, wouldn't a slightly more active shaft give me a bit more distance?

 

No.  The amount of loading (or how active it is) has nothing to do (directly) with club head speed or distance.   It's ALL about how the stiffness feel effects and influence your swing - particularly sequencing and timing.

 

16 hours ago, jholz said:

Wouldn't it fit with my aging swing a bit better?

 

Apparently not 🤔   Although that was a rather large jump in stiffness.   Something in between might turn out a bit better if you're concerned your current swing might be a bit too stiff.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Stuart_G

[golferdude54]

I find it interesting that NV and V2 have been mentioned and raved about multiple times in this thread. Both shafts happen to have extremely low torque compared to other shafts.

[hagimihale]

3 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

I find it interesting that NV and V2 have been mentioned and raved about multiple times in this thread. Both shafts happen to have extremely low torque compared to other shafts.

 

NV is iconic.  I could go back to it right now with no issues.

[rbpwrx]

4 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

I find it interesting that NV and V2 have been mentioned and raved about multiple times in this thread. Both shafts happen to have extremely low torque compared to other shafts.

Very low torque is definitely the main thing all shafts I love have in common. Generally near or below 2°.

[Stuart_G]

4 hours ago, golferdude54 said:

I find it interesting that NV and V2 have been mentioned and raved about multiple times in this thread. Both shafts happen to have extremely low torque compared to other shafts.

 

They are not really all that low.  The 65 S and X are both just 3.6*.    The 75 X is just at 3.0.    And it's even less than it seems when you understand that aldila measure torque over a shorter length than some other OEM's.   Torque trends actually bottomed out well after the NV was  released.  Roughly around Rip Alpha and Tour green.  The trend toward higher torque is actually pretty recent (historically).    But if you're looking for a similar profile but with the higher (softer) torque - try the 2knv green.  It's 4.9* for the stiff and 4.5* for the X.

 

Edited May 13, 2023 by Stuart_G

[rbpwrx]

48 minutes ago, Stuart_G said:

They are not really all that low.  The 65 S and X are both just 3.6*.    The 75 X is just at 3.0.    And it's even less than it seems when you understand that aldila measure torque over a shorter length than some other OEM's.   Torque trends actually bottomed out well after the NV was  released.  Roughly around Rip Alpha and Tour green.  The trend toward higher torque is actually pretty recent (historically).    But if you're looking for a similar profile but with the higher (softer) torque - try the 2knv green.  It's 4.9* for the stiff and 4.5* for the X.

 

Tour Green is low, at least in the TX flexes. My 105 TX hybrid is 2.0, my 85 TX 3W is 2.6.

[rbpwrx]

On 5/13/2023 at 12:09 AM, Howard_Jones said:

My memory say they are marked 75 X where the 63 grams only say R, S,  S* or X
S* is really R flex for sale to Tour players (yes they was fooled to think it was S, since R was not for them you know)

 

I have seen OG Blues in "Tour S." Is that the famous rebranded S* (hint: R)?
BTW, when Nicklaus' favorite (steel) driver was flex-tested, it came in at a strong R.

Which he vigorously objected to and denied for years ("I play an X !!!").

Full circle, many long driver champs these days have super soft shafts in their quiver to maximize distance. If you can time it, no question a shaft contribution helps.

But that's a big *IF*!

[Howard_Jones]

4 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

 

I have seen OG Blues in "Tour S." Is that the famous rebranded S* (hint: R)?
BTW, when Nicklaus' favorite (steel) driver was flex-tested, it came in at a strong R.

Which he vigorously objected to and denied for years ("I play an X !!!").

Full circle, many long driver champs these days have super soft shafts in their quiver to maximize distance. If you can time it, no question a shaft contribution helps.

But that's a big *IF*!

What is R flex?
It was never anything else than what we could have used label like 1,2,3 or A, B, C,  so what it tells us, is NOT how stiff it is, but the RELATIVE difference between the options in that model and weight range

TT XP 115 R is stronger than TT XP 95 S as example, so what is "S flex"?
(the correct answer is, in THIS model AND WEIGHT, the option stronger than R flex)

its the option stronger than R, in the same weight and model....thats it, its NOT a comparable value, so we CANT say that "S flex and S flex" is comparable options, since one of them might belong to a shaft series that is "soft to flex", and another might be "strong" to flex.

 

as example, Grafalloy BLUE (white) as R flex, was stronger than Grafalloy Booyah X flex....

The flex letters ONLY tells where that shaft belongs in its own model series, they was NEVER comparable like we like to think they was

Edited May 15, 2023 by Howard_Jones

[rbpwrx]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

What is R flex?
It was never anything else than what we could have used label like 1,2,3 or A, B, C,  so what it tells us, is NOT how stiff it is, but the RELATIVE difference between the options in that model and weight range

TT XP 115 R is stronger than TT XP 95 S as example, so what is "S flex"?
(the correct answer is, in THIS model AND WEIGHT, the option stronger than R flex)

its the option stronger than R, in the same weight and model....thats it, its NOT a comparable value, so we CANT say that "S flex and S flex" is comparable options, since one of them might belong to a shaft series that is "soft to flex", and another might be "strong" to flex.

 

as example, Grafalloy BLUE (white) as R flex, was stronger than Grafalloy Booyah X flex....

The flex letters ONLY tells where that shaft belongs in its own model series, they was NEVER comparable like we like to think they was

 

If I remember the article correctly, they measured its CPM, which clocked in at something like 257. I.e. a 'strong R,' if we consider 255 an R, 260, an S, 265 an X, etc.

[Howard_Jones]

9 minutes ago, rbpwrx said:

 

If I remember the article correctly, they measured its CPM, which clocked in at something like 257. I.e. a 'strong R,' if we consider 255 an R, 260, an S, 265 an X, etc.

In the FCM system, its always been 10 CPM from 5.0 to 6.0, and in the L.A.R.S.X system about 15 CPM, so its NEVER been only 5, who is what we expect from 5.0 to 5.5

Here is the FCM chart using a 5.0 clamp
250 CPM at a play length of 45" is FCM 4.5, (R) and 255 is 5.0 (R+)

[rbpwrx]

3 minutes ago, Howard_Jones said:

In the FCM system, its always been 10 CPM from 5.0 to 6.0, and in the L.A.R.S.X system about 15 CPM, so its NEVER been only 5, who is what we expect from 5.0 to 5.5

Here is the FCM chart using a 5.0 clamp
250 CPM at a play length of 45" is FCM 4.5, (R) and 255 is 5.0 (R+)

 

Yes, of course, you are right about 5.5 being 250 and 6.5 being 270. I had forgotten that. Point is the same, JN's driver measured somewhere around 257. Well below the 270 one might expect for an 'X.'

Edited May 15, 2023 by rbpwrx

[rbpwrx]

2 hours ago, Howard_Jones said:

What is R flex?

Question also remains the same: I have seen OG Blues in "Tour S." Is that the famous S* (i.e. the secret 'R' you said they rebranded for tour guys)?

 

I'm trying to figure out if the TOUR S is softer or stiffer than an S in OG Blue.

[Howard_Jones]

7 hours ago, rbpwrx said:

Question also remains the same: I have seen OG Blues in "Tour S." Is that the famous S* (i.e. the secret 'R' you said they rebranded for tour guys)?

 

I'm trying to figure out if the TOUR S is softer or stiffer than an S in OG Blue.

Here is a quote from True Temper about TOUR

[jholz]

On 5/13/2023 at 5:39 AM, Stuart_G said:

 

No.  The amount of loading (or how active it is) has nothing to do (directly) with club head speed or distance.   It's ALL about how the stiffness feel effects and influence your swing - particularly sequencing and timing.

 

 

Apparently not 🤔   Although that was a rather large jump in stiffness.   Something in between might turn out a bit better if you're concerned your current swing might be a bit too stiff.

 

Yeah, I guess I'm looking for something that hits the sweet spot between dispersion and distance. I get better dispersion with stiffer shafts, but feel like I give up distance.

 

So, I try to play my 3w and hybrids very stiff/heavy. They are precision clubs.

 

Then, I'm willing to get a bit loose with the driver. It's more of a distance club.

 

This is my general theory.

 

But, this looseness is killing me. I miss fairways by 6". Every ball curves. Tough to produce a straight shot.

 

Currently have a stock PX Cypher in 6.0. It is a fine shaft. Well married with the head.

 

But, would love to tame the curve just a bit. Is the only option going stiffer/heavier?

 

[rbpwrx]

13 minutes ago, jholz said:

 

Yeah, I guess I'm looking for something that hits the sweet spot between dispersion and distance. I get better dispersion with stiffer shafts, but feel like I give up distance.

 

So, I try to play my 3w and hybrids very stiff/heavy. They are precision clubs.

 

Then, I'm willing to get a bit loose with the driver. It's more of a distance club.

 

This is my general theory.

 

But, this looseness is killing me. I miss fairways by 6". Every ball curves. Tough to produce a straight shot.

 

Currently have a stock PX Cypher in 6.0. It is a fine shaft. Well married with the head.

 

But, would love to tame the curve just a bit. Is the only option going stiffer/heavier?

 

I find stiffer and lighter is the ticket for driver. Since the shaft is light, swingweight goes up, which makes it FEEL softer. But dispersion is tight. YMMV.