Standing Up In Backswing

[RH82]

See pics below for the various positions during my swing. Trying to fix a flat golf swing and prevent standing up.

Edited May 9, 2023 by RH82

[PracticeSwinger]

From that angle, tough to say, but it doesn't seem excessive 45ish. Usually the problem is how players get there, with excessive early trail hip rotation, that maxes out it's range of motion and then it's an arm swing to the top, drawing that lead hip into the ball, crowding the space needed in the downswing, compensatory EE, stall/flip to save it. So a DTL view would be more telling here. Make sure you still have some trail knee flexion (you lose some in the backswing but you don't want to lokc it out). I'd be more concerned about the 'flatness' of your backswing, pelvis and shoulders tilt. Also, as an aside, you seem to still have lot of pressure on your trail side this late in the backswing/top - video would tell a lot more than a still image.

[RH82]

18 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

From that angle, tough to say, but it doesn't seem excessive 45ish. Usually the problem is how players get there, with excessive early trail hip rotation, that maxes out it's range of motion and then it's an arm swing to the top, drawing that lead hip into the ball, crowding the space needed in the downswing, compensatory EE, stall/flip to save it. So a DTL view would be more telling here. Make sure you still have some trail knee flexion (you lose some in the backswing but you don't want to lokc it out). I'd be more concerned about the 'flatness' of your backswing, pelvis and shoulders tilt. Also, as an aside, you seem to still have lot of pressure on your trail side this late in the backswing/top - video would tell a lot more than a still image.

Thanks for the information! How would you fix a flat backswing? This is not the first time I've heard that about my swing. If I were to guess it would be that my shoulder line should be more perpendicular to the ground as opposed to parrarel?

Edited May 9, 2023 by RH82

[PracticeSwinger]

2 minutes ago, RH82 said:

Thanks for the information! How would you fix a flat backswing? This is not the first time I've heard that about my swing.

Not a coach so take it with a grain of salt, but my own experience is a feeling, combo of : lead forearm supination right of the bat (or more precisely, no pronation), hands staying on the toe line (if they go out, the club whips inside, and that inevitably flattens my swing) and then, as early as P2ish, a sense of extending on the right side 'getting taller on that side' while my pelvis starts to move to the target side

[PracticeSwinger]

9 minutes ago, RH82 said:

Thanks for the information! How would you fix a flat backswing? This is not the first time I've heard that about my swing. If I were to guess it would be that my shoulder line should be more perpendicular to the ground as opposed to parrarel?

Correct, on the last part. It's obvisouly club related, just from setup (upper body tilt from the DTL view) driver is flattish.

[RH82]

5 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Not a coach so take it with a grain of salt, but my own experience is a feeling, combo of : lead forearm supination right of the bat (or more precisely, no pronation), hands staying on the toe line (if they go out, the club whips inside, and that inevitably flattens my swing) and then, as early as P2ish, a sense of extending on the right side 'getting taller on that side' while my pelvis starts to move to the target side

Something I've been battling over the years is "standing up" in the back swing and maintaining the shoulder tilt. Its harder to maintain that angle than it seems. The only way I see it is if I record it. The only thing that seems to help is the feeling of "pushing" down during the backswing to combat the subtle rising during the backswing.

Edited May 9, 2023 by RH82

[RH82]

You can see the tree/brim of my hat with the red line as a reference to show me “standing up”.

Edited May 9, 2023 by RH82

[Elkhair]

I dont really feel standing up a little bit is a big deal, as long as you lower properly in the end of backswing/transition part of the swing. 

[MPStrat]

You don’t have too much hip turn. Your thought of lowering in the backswing to not raise up is one that works well. Just make sure you maintain your height in the takeaway/early backswing and the lowering doesn’t happen immediately. Feeling a little taller in the upper back at setup might help.

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, RH82 said:

You can see the tree with the red line as a reference to show the “standing up”.

I'd work, looking into a mirror behind you, at the JT rehearsal 'P2ish'. Where he checks that the clubhead is outside his hands : combo of not left forearm pronation, hands staying on the toe line and no right wrist extension - you can't get there if you lose upper body tilt 'standing up'. Compare it to your P2ish image. It will feel like your clubhead is way outside at first, but it's just that, a feel

[bladehunter]

I’m nobody. But I don’t see anything id retool over.  Where’s the ball going ?  That’s the question.  I can’t imagine that little lift for a guy of your age ( you appear similar to me ) is rare.  I’m also tall and upright.  If anything I’d say you may have too much bend at address.  But that will probably start an argument 😂.  You might be just lifting up to where address should be for a tall guy.  What is the specs on your clubs ? 

[RH82]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

I’m nobody. But I don’t see anything id retool over.  Where’s the ball going ?  That’s the question.  I can’t imagine that little lift for a guy of your age ( you appear similar to me ) is rare.  I’m also tall and upright.  If anything I’d say you may have too much bend at address.  But that will probably start an argument 😂.  You might be just lifting up to where address should be for a tall guy.  What is the specs on your clubs ? 

40 years old, 6'5". My miss is an over draw (starts at the target line and draws in the left rough). Clubs are +0.75" over. In reality there +1" over "standard" in most specs but this particular set is a little longer before the adjustment.

[Elkhair]

Work on the takeaway first. Your suck the clubhead inside a little too much IMO. Keep the clubhead outside the hands a little bit longer. That will fix some of the other things.

 

Overall the backswing looks fine. 

 

Something is wrong, because your final follow through position is off. A little bit of a hang back and not full extension. Might be a little tense, or not releasing the wrists early enough. 

[RH82]

1 minute ago, Elkhair said:

Work on the takeaway first. Your suck the clubhead inside a little too much IMO. Keep the clubhead outside the hands a little bit longer. That will fix some of the other things.

 

Overall the backswing looks fine. 

 

Something is wrong, because your final follow through position is off. A little bit of a hang back and not full extension. Might be a little tense, or not releasing the wrists early enough. 

The suck to the inside is exactly right. Something I need to work on and even incorporate the JT routine before pulling the trigger.

[bladehunter]

Just now, RH82 said:

40 years old, 6'5". My miss is an over draw (starts at the target line and draws in the left rough). Clubs are +0.75" over. In reality there +1" over "standard" in most specs but this particular set is a little longer before the adjustment.

Very much the same as me then. I’m 43 6-3 barefoot and playing .75 over…. Is that club a short iron ?  Wedge ?   Reason I ask. My wedges are all same length as my pw. So no progression down.  I had the same issue with a wedge before lengthening  them to the .75 over pw length.  A sort of dip to address the ball. Then a raise to swing properly, then a dive back down to the ball.  
 

just spit balling since I see several similarities.  Might be totally off. 

[RH82]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Very much the same as me then. I’m 43 6-3 barefoot and playing .75 over…. Is that club a short iron ?  Wedge ?   Reason I ask. My wedges are all same length as my pw. So no progression down.  I had the same issue with a wedge before lengthening  them to the .75 over pw length.  A sort of dip to address the ball. Then a raise to swing properly, then a dive back down to the ball.  
 

just spit balling since I see several similarities.  Might be totally off. 

I believe that club was a 7 iron.

[Rapidcat]

Interesting course, looks in tough condition.

[RH82]

On 5/13/2023 at 1:22 PM, Rapidcat said:

Interesting course, looks in tough condition.

lol its my back yard.

[oiler45]

Old school tip - but it works for me because standing up and moving my head up and back is an on-going problem for me. Put a tee in your mouth and aim it at the ball - try to keep it pointed at the ball until impact. You'll be surprised how different your backswing will feel - at least for me it does.

[Nickc]

5 hours ago, oiler45 said:

Old school tip - but it works for me because standing up and moving my head up and back is an on-going problem for me. Put a tee in your mouth and aim it at the ball - try to keep it pointed at the ball until impact. You'll be surprised how different your backswing will feel - at least for me it does.

What a cool visual drill. I've just been re browsing Alex J Morrison's "A new way to better golf" (published 1932) and he advocated pointing the chin just behind the ball and keeping it pointed there until after impact. The tee idea is a great visual for trying this idea out.

[Nard_S]

You're not so much as standing up but that your hip is falling into ball. Trail hip remans at setup position but leading falls into ball line. If you push trail further back instead, angles hold, head will remain stable. Not saying you can't live with what's there, but that's how I see it.

[Zitlow]

Your shoulders should operate like a wheel rotating around a spine axle on the inclined plane.

 

You will have to manipulate your shoulder plane, wobble them to hit the ball. 

 

 

 

Just a suggestion. Put a club behind your arms and point one end at the ball going back and the other end at the ball coming down. It will feel like a huge change at first because you're acclimated to the old feel. 

 

 

 

 

[Nard_S]

23 hours ago, Zitlow said:

Your shoulders should operate like a wheel rotating around a spine axle on the inclined plane.

 

You will have to manipulate your shoulder plane, wobble them to hit the ball. 

 

 

 

Just a suggestion. Put a club behind your arms and point one end at the ball going back and the other end at the ball coming down. It will feel like a huge change at first because you're acclimated to the old feel. 

 

 

 

 

Would caution against this, I used to believe it and tried to do that but there's ample evidence that tour guys alter the angle quite a bit. They steepen it by around 17 degrees (forget exact) from back swing to down swing. Went with that, works much better.

[moehogan]

Make sure you’re looking directly at the ball using your foveal vision rather than peripheral vision from address to impact. That should help you to maintain your spine and neck tilts.

 

Stare that mofo down!

[Zitlow]

23 hours ago, Nard_S said:

Would caution against this, I used to believe it and tried to do that but there's ample evidence that tour guys alter the angle quite a bit. They steepen it by around 17 degrees (forget exact) from back swing to down swing. Went with that, works much better.

I get what you're saying, there are multiple actions. I was pointing out that @RH82 shoulders and left arm are on a plane like he's hitting a golf ball sitting on a 3 foot tee instead of a ball siting on the ground. 

 

 

[me05501]

Seek out some drills on staying connected. Try a towel or headcover tucked under the trail armpit or a long towel that can go under both armpits. This might help you keep your hands more in front of your chest versus getting a bit stuck behind you. 

[Nard_S]

1 hour ago, Zitlow said:

I get what you're saying, there are multiple actions. I was pointing out that @RH82 shoulders and left arm are on a plane like he's hitting a golf ball sitting on a 3 foot tee instead of a ball siting on the ground. 

 

 

Yeah , some of that is due to the stand up part but this is what I'm referencing. I found this quite helpful.

 

[FormerBigDaddy]

@Zitlow nailed it.  Most people who take it inside and get too flat tend to turn too flat with their shoulders.  Your hands and have no choice but to swing inside and roll over unless you have a lot of arm lift independent of your turn.  Which is hard to make repeatable.  The key is turning on the proper plane requires lead side bend (aka tilt).  You have to blend turning with tilt together aka lead shoulder down.  It feels awful and weird at first for someone who's always turned flat but it's really the only fix long term.  When you learn to to turn and tilt properly the club will stay outside the hands early and the arms will swing naturally in the direction of the momentum created by the turn and tilt in the proper direction.  This is just not taught enough... it's not the hands, wrists, or arms you need to fix.  

Edited May 22, 2023 by FormerBigDaddy

[iacas]

2 hours ago, Zitlow said:

 

 

I sell software for "line-drawing" but even this kind of line-drawing is really suspect. 3D ≠ 2D. That left arm is not parallel to the camera's sensor, so you really have no idea where in space that "line" (segment) is pointing. In reality it's likely a few feet forward of the golfer's front foot when it gets "out" to the ball.

[RH82]

So I tried a few things and my swing plane seems more on track. I've been overswinging for a long time so implementing a 3/4 swing has helped a lot with maintaining my spine angle as well as the takeaway going back straighter and not sucking it to the inside so early. Big difference so far.