Best exercises for golf performance?

bluedot · June 20, 2023

On 6/18/2023 at 10:43 AM, bladehunter said:

I suppose. I don’t have the education by which to argue. So I won’t. I only have a study on me. But my mind does go back to the one example that glares in my mind. Tiger 1.0 vs tiger after he bulked. I wish we could play both scenarios out and see. id bet a lot that he incurs less injury as 1.0 both swing and body. The more he lifted the more injury that came. Is it coincidence? I’m open to the argument. But I don’t see how it can be proven either way.

I guess what I’m asking is this. In my youth until early 20s I was a sprinter at the highest levels available to me. (400m 4x400 relay) and a high jumper. 6ft6 was my one time high 6-4 being cleared many times. ( I was not the best on my team in that ) This was in the middle to late 90s. As a team or individually we never lifted a weight. It was thought of as detrimental to speed to add weight. We worked in the road on endurance and we worked on hills for speed and drive strength. We jumped higher by jumping daily. Same for basketball. We absolutely didn’t lift. Was thought to be harmful to a good stroke ( shot). Only the football players and wrestlers lifted basically …

So now with a 14 year old following after me in each sport ( not a sprinter a mile runner ) they lift a lot. And it worries me honestly. I see it as probably maxing out performance now , but ultimately leading to more injury . I have tons of miles on my legs , knees hips etc. Probably 10x the average 43 year old. And I have no injury or pain that’s a normal part of my day. Yet my 14 year old has been diagnosed with Osgood schlatter s disease ( which is knee pain in a growing kid who’s highly active in sports ) and has had the pocket in one hip drained of fluid already. I forget the name of the procedure. He ms doing a combo of 7 miles a day road work and 6-10 on a stationary bike at 35 % resistance in the evening. . He was doing 11 miles a day on the road in the evening with a cross fit workout 4 morning a week. It’s not prescribed by his coaches. It’s his own recipe to compete. He’s running a 4.40 ish mile as a freshman last season. We saw the state champ run 4.12 to win and a competing freshman in our region ran 4.25 to finish second in the state. In my opinion they’re bumping up against injury every day. I don’t believe that’s the best long term path. But it is what you have to do to compete.

So now it seems to be that whoever gets injured less. Or at the right times ..wins. But that injury is treated as inevitable. I ran sub 50 second 400m for 5 of my 6 years of training and sub 49 one year and never had an injury. And still don’t. So you see why my mind is biased. I hear it preached that lifting prevents injury. Yet my experience combined with my kid is the exact opposite. And as I say that. I still understand that genetics rule the day. And I might just be lucky. Which is why I said it’s person to person dependent. Not arguing. Just giving you my view and context.

With all due respect:

If you were a basketball and track athlete in the 90's and weren't in the weight room, you were in an outlier program. I was a HS basketball coach for 40 years, beginning in the middle 70's, and we lifted even during the season. Not heavy, and not trying to build bulk, but for injury prevention. I don't think we were doing anything unusual, either; pretty much everybody else was lifting as well. In today's world, almost every college program employs strength and conditioning coach who devise not only sport-specific workouts, but individualize them based on assessments of individual athletes.

The irony of the track thing, though, is this. Golf-specific workouts today don't look much like the golf swing, and that's been the case with track workouts for decades. Track coaches have long since learned that building strength and mobility add speed AND prevent injury; they were leaders in this. Plyometrics would be the best known example of this, but there is a lot more.

I've been a dedicated weight room advocate for about 50 years. I'm 70 now, and still lift twice a week; I was in the weight room this morning by 8 am. A little over three years ago, I revamped my workout routines entirely, under the guidance of a TPI-type facility, and the difference it's made in how I feel and how I perform is still hard for me to believe. Other than a little bit of arthritis in my hip, I'm pretty much free of aches and pains; I never even have to take Advil anymore, which is a BIG change from 3 years ago.

But here's the key point: NOBODY gets hurt, or is more likely to get hurt, from working out. Overuse in ANY activity is an injury danger; young pitchers are a case study in this. A well-designed, balanced, sport-specific workout program is the best way I know to stay healthy while pursuing excellence in any sport. (I won't get into your son's situation because I don't know who is in charge of his training methods and programs.)

VERY early in my career as a coach, one of my mentors said this to me in regards to working out for basketball: "All other things equal, if I'm stronger than you are, I win." I believed that in 1975, and I haven't seen a thing in the almost half century since to do anything but make me believe it even more.

PhillipG78 · June 20, 2023

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

With all due respect:

If you were a basketball and track athlete in the 90's and weren't in the weight room, you were in an outlier program. I was a HS basketball coach for 40 years, beginning in the middle 70's, and we lifted even during the season. Not heavy, and not trying to build bulk, but for injury prevention. I don't think we were doing anything unusual, either; pretty much everybody else was lifting as well. In today's world, almost every college program employs strength and conditioning coach who devise not only sport-specific workouts, but individualize them based on assessments of individual athletes.

The irony of the track thing, though, is this. Golf-specific workouts today don't look much like the golf swing, and that's been the case with track workouts for decades. Track coaches have long since learned that building strength and mobility add speed AND prevent injury; they were leaders in this. Plyometrics would be the best known example of this, but there is a lot more.

I've been a dedicated weight room advocate for about 50 years. I'm 70 now, and still lift twice a week; I was in the weight room this morning by 8 am. A little over three years ago, I revamped my workout routines entirely, under the guidance of a TPI-type facility, and the difference it's made in how I feel and how I perform is still hard for me to believe. Other than a little bit of arthritis in my hip, I'm pretty much free of aches and pains; I never even have to take Advil anymore, which is a BIG change from 3 years ago.

But here's the key point: NOBODY gets hurt, or is more likely to get hurt, from working out. Overuse in ANY activity is an injury danger; young pitchers are a case study in this. A well-designed, balanced, sport-specific workout program is the best way I know to stay healthy while pursuing excellence in any sport. (I won't get into your son's situation because I don't know who is in charge of his training methods and programs.)

VERY early in my career as a coach, one of my mentors said this to me in regards to working out for basketball: "All other things equal, if I'm stronger than you are, I win." I believed that in 1975, and I haven't seen a thing in the almost half century since to do anything but make me believe it even more.

The key is all other things equal. Strength training is terrific, anyone who says it isn’t is either lying or uneducated. Mobility, then stability, then strength, then power. I ran track in HS and people would be amazed how much time and work is focused on mobility and mechanics. Any high caliber athlete spends A LOT of time working on mobility. If they need to work on mobility the average guy who spends 8 hours a day at desk definitely needs to prioritize it.

bladehunter · June 20, 2023

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

With all due respect:

If you were a basketball and track athlete in the 90's and weren't in the weight room, you were in an outlier program. I was a HS basketball coach for 40 years, beginning in the middle 70's, and we lifted even during the season. Not heavy, and not trying to build bulk, but for injury prevention. I don't think we were doing anything unusual, either; pretty much everybody else was lifting as well. In today's world, almost every college program employs strength and conditioning coach who devise not only sport-specific workouts, but individualize them based on assessments of individual athletes.

The irony of the track thing, though, is this. Golf-specific workouts today don't look much like the golf swing, and that's been the case with track workouts for decades. Track coaches have long since learned that building strength and mobility add speed AND prevent injury; they were leaders in this. Plyometrics would be the best known example of this, but there is a lot more.

I've been a dedicated weight room advocate for about 50 years. I'm 70 now, and still lift twice a week; I was in the weight room this morning by 8 am. A little over three years ago, I revamped my workout routines entirely, under the guidance of a TPI-type facility, and the difference it's made in how I feel and how I perform is still hard for me to believe. Other than a little bit of arthritis in my hip, I'm pretty much free of aches and pains; I never even have to take Advil anymore, which is a BIG change from 3 years ago.

But here's the key point: NOBODY gets hurt, or is more likely to get hurt, from working out. Overuse in ANY activity is an injury danger; young pitchers are a case study in this. A well-designed, balanced, sport-specific workout program is the best way I know to stay healthy while pursuing excellence in any sport. (I won't get into your son's situation because I don't know who is in charge of his training methods and programs.)

VERY early in my career as a coach, one of my mentors said this to me in regards to working out for basketball: "All other things equal, if I'm stronger than you are, I win." I believed that in 1975, and I haven't seen a thing in the almost half century since to do anything but make me believe it even more.

Don’t disagree with the basis. So don’t misunderstand me. If you don’t do much other physical moving , then. weights are probably a good supplement. But it think it’s a minefield as far as finding a proper teacher . Much less to teach a kid what overuse vs proper form is. I mean I kid you not. The strength coach at my kids high school is a caricature of what you’d expect a comedy version to be if it highlighted all the “ which way to the weight room “ stereotypes …. The guy is a goober . Period. I recently paid for my kid to have a gym membership at a private trainers gym who teaches CrossFit , but also does other tailored programs. So he’s starting down a better path. This teachers kid is on my kids cross country and track team. So she gives the team a great rate. so I’m not arguing with you on training. But on the school front ? ——-

id say you’re either a very pioneering coach who brought your kids things early. Or you were in a large suburban school / district. I went to a school that graduated around 225 -275 kids and the weight room was the size of a 2 car garage. We did get a rubberized track in 1996. Which was unheard of then. And we were considered one of the best schools in our region. By far and nowhere near the poorest. Or smallest. Rural schools are very common in all states. So I guess it just depends on where you’re at.

What I’m finding from this post is that I’m either overworked , an outlier or both. I can’t possibly see how id find the time or inclination/energy to go and lift. I stretch every morning though and always have. And I remain Gumby flexible at 43.

I guess as I think and type here I’m not arguing against weights at all. I just have a viewpoint that’s skewed. I think most advice I Read here is for the person with what I’d consider to be a sedentary lifestyle. So it always strikes me as off. Or odd. Even excessive. But I have to remember that average guy does next to nothing physical all day. So…. No arguments here except my experience in school. I’m absolutely telling the truth , I ran top 10 in the 400m for 5 years at the state level and never once lifted a weight in preparation. All road and speed work. That’s not a brag. Just an experience. I’m sure I could have been faster with a proper coach. But that’s water under the old bridge.

Edited June 20, 2023 by bladehunter

phizzy30 · June 21, 2023

14 hours ago, bluedot said:

VERY early in my career as a coach, one of my mentors said this to me in regards to working out for basketball: "All other things equal, if I'm stronger than you are, I win." I believed that in 1975, and I haven't seen a thing in the almost half century since to do anything but make me believe it even more.

I agree with this regarding most sports including basketball(prime Shaq vs his peers), however, we all know that it doesn't apply to golf which makes it unique. If two tour players are equal in skill, the one that's stronger in the gym doesn't always win. We know there's a lot more that goes into winning out on tour than being the strongest one physically.

Edited June 21, 2023 by phizzy30

bluedot · June 21, 2023

1 hour ago, phizzy30 said:

I agree with this regarding most sports including basketball(prime Shaq vs his peers), however, we all know that it doesn't apply to golf which makes it unique. If two tour players are equal in skill, the one that's stronger in the gym doesn't always win. We know there's a lot more that goes into winning out on tour than being the strongest one physically.

“All other things equal” is NEVER true in real life, and I’m hesitant every time I write that in reference to any sport, golf included. Of course other things intrude in golf, including mental strength, a hot or cold putter, and even good or bad luck.

But I stand by the premise, 100%, and I think you do as well. There is simply no way that ANY athlete, golfers included, doesn’t benefit from a good workout program. How much any individual benefits depends on the their starting point, their particular strengths and deficits, their work ethic, and on and on, which is why we use the phrase, “All other things equal” in the first place.

A good workout program, especially one that is golf-specific, makes golfers not just stronger, but more flexible and, perhaps most importantly as we age, with much better mobility. That so many golfers don’t accept that goes along with attitudes about practice, instruction, and club fitting as laughable mysteries to me.

Edited June 21, 2023 by bluedot

chigolfer1 · June 21, 2023

15 hours ago, bladehunter said:

Don’t disagree with the basis. So don’t misunderstand me. If you don’t do much other physical moving , then. weights are probably a good supplement. But it think it’s a minefield as far as finding a proper teacher . Much less to teach a kid what overuse vs proper form is. I mean I kid you not. The strength coach at my kids high school is a caricature of what you’d expect a comedy version to be if it highlighted all the “ which way to the weight room “ stereotypes …. The guy is a goober . Period. I recently paid for my kid to have a gym membership at a private trainers gym who teaches CrossFit , but also does other tailored programs. So he’s starting down a better path. This teachers kid is on my kids cross country and track team. So she gives the team a great rate. so I’m not arguing with you on training. But on the school front ? ——-

id say you’re either a very pioneering coach who brought your kids things early. Or you were in a large suburban school / district. I went to a school that graduated around 225 -275 kids and the weight room was the size of a 2 car garage. We did get a rubberized track in 1996. Which was unheard of then. And we were considered one of the best schools in our region. By far and nowhere near the poorest. Or smallest. Rural schools are very common in all states. So I guess it just depends on where you’re at.

What I’m finding from this post is that I’m either overworked , an outlier or both. I can’t possibly see how id find the time or inclination/energy to go and lift. I stretch every morning though and always have. And I remain Gumby flexible at 43.

I guess as I think and type here I’m not arguing against weights at all. I just have a viewpoint that’s skewed. I think most advice I Read here is for the person with what I’d consider to be a sedentary lifestyle. So it always strikes me as off. Or odd. Even excessive. But I have to remember that average guy does next to nothing physical all day. So…. No arguments here except my experience in school. I’m absolutely telling the truth , I ran top 10 in the 400m for 5 years at the state level and never once lifted a weight in preparation. All road and speed work. That’s not a brag. Just an experience. I’m sure I could have been faster with a proper coach. But that’s water under the old bridge.

First off, you're not that old. The starting pitcher for the Pirates today is the same age as you! Second, the thing about strength training is, it doesn't have to be a big time commitment. Heck, just for the basic, keeping strength and muscle mass, you can get away with like 30 minutes/3x a week, not to mention you can do bodyweight stuff easily as well.

bladehunter · June 21, 2023

Just now, chigolfer1 said:

First off, you're not that old. The starting pitcher for the Pirates today is the same age as you! Second, the thing about strength training is, it doesn't have to be a big time commitment. Heck, just for the basic, keeping strength and muscle mass, you can get away with like 30 minutes/3x a week, not to mention you can do bodyweight stuff easily as well.

I’m old. Mileage wise. I’m old. I’ve worked a job since I was 12. Full time at 16. Outdoors in the elements 6/7 days a week. Only when I started my own business 21 years ago did I get a roof over my head most days. Let’s just say. I’m the human bridge that is necessary between two generations , where one is poverty with no future and the 3rds goal is choices , and education past middle school. Not trying to be over dramatic…. Just telling it like it is. I’m the guy who wakes up to play golf on Saturday morning, and I’m really too exhausted to play. But I go because my brain wants to . And I walk 99 % of my rounds. And after I’m dead to the world until Sunday morning where I get up and go again. Zero people I play with report similar. Most play 4/6 days a week and show up energetic and they’re bubbly after the round. Wanting to go to the bar etc. I drag my butt home.

yes I’ve had my T levels checked thrice. I’m high if anything. Yes I’ve had blood work done for everything else. No issues. I wear a whoop 24/7 and track my health that way. It screams at me to take naps , breaks etc all the time. Plan your sleep etc. I did help myself by figuring out my dietary needs to keep from crashing mid day. The gist of that was a massive increase in clean animal proteins early in the day and small snacks of other portions all day ( nuts cheese eggs etc ) followed by a meat dinner. This was a year ago. I’ve had no adverse effects. And the mid day crash is not a thing anymore. It was simply lack of fuel.

id love to believe you to be correct. But I know within myself that I’ll never play this game to an older age. 1. I am too competitive to hack it around 2. They’ll come a Day where I have to choose. Eat or play. Because my body won’t let me work and do both …I’m just trying to enjoy hitting a ball some and compete a few more times while I get my 14 year old over the finish line …. Another 10-15 years if he keeps on the surgeons path he chose.

sorry to all reading. I’ll try not to reply again and litter the thread further.