Closing out a round

[DoughBack18]

2 under through 8 and on it feels like i’m  on cruise control. Bad break off the tee on 9 and make a bogey, good looks 10-13 but nothing fell, so 1 under through 13. Proceed to 3 putt 14 from 75ish feet. Pull one by a few yards on 15, clip a tree bounces ob and I triple. Sloppy bogey on 18 for a 76. Turned an easy 69 or 70 into 76 and that has seem to be my M.O. for about the last 8-9 years. It stinks…

 

Asking for any thoughts on closing out a round. My mindset doesn’t seem to change, I don’t feel nervous per say, but I can tell I get just a touch tighter. I’m going to try to start working on some physical conditioning to see if it is a strength/stamina problem. But I would be very curious if other have had the same issue and anything you’ve done to become a better closer. Thanks for your time!

[SNIPERBBB]

I know when I start feeling start I find shortening the back swing helps me. 

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, DoughBack18 said:

2 under through 8 and on it feels like i’m  on cruise control. Bad break off the tee on 9 and make a bogey, good looks 10-13 but nothing fell, so 1 under through 13. Proceed to 3 putt 14 from 75ish feet. Pull one by a few yards on 15, clip a tree bounces ob and I triple. Sloppy bogey on 18 for a 76. Turned an easy 69 or 70 into 76 and that has seem to be my M.O. for about the last 8-9 years. It stinks…

 

Asking for any thoughts on closing out a round. My mindset doesn’t seem to change, I don’t feel nervous per say, but I can tell I get just a touch tighter. I’m going to try to start working on some physical conditioning to see if it is a strength/stamina problem. But I would be very curious if other have had the same issue and anything you’ve done to become a better closer. Thanks for your time!

What was the bad break on 9 tee?

What caused the 75 footer on 14?

What caused you to have to play so close to the tree and what caused you to clip it?

[DoughBack18]

22 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

What was the bad break on 9 tee?

What caused the 75 footer on 14?

What caused you to have to play so close to the tree and what caused you to clip it?

9 I hit a really solid drive right at my target, but caught a big gust and didn’t carry a bunker by a yard or so that crosses the fairway. 
 

The 75 footer was a bad club. Was right in between 8 and 7, and looking back it was a 7 all day. 
 

The tree hole is a weird hole. Its a 90* dogleg, and that tree sits at the corner of it. The only flatish part of the fairway is just left of that tree, (i’m a lefty) so I played a little fade off the inside edge of it. Again, really solid drive but it just didn’t quite cut enough.
 

The majority of holes I would play those 2 drives are fine, but unfortunately they needed to be better on those 2 particular holes.
 

 

[MPStrat]

2 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

2 under through 8 and on it feels like i’m  on cruise control. Bad break off the tee on 9 and make a bogey, good looks 10-13 but nothing fell, so 1 under through 13. Proceed to 3 putt 14 from 75ish feet. Pull one by a few yards on 15, clip a tree bounces ob and I triple. Sloppy bogey on 18 for a 76. Turned an easy 69 or 70 into 76 and that has seem to be my M.O. for about the last 8-9 years. It stinks…

 

Asking for any thoughts on closing out a round. My mindset doesn’t seem to change, I don’t feel nervous per se but I can tell I get just a touch tighter. I’m going to try to start working on some physical conditioning to see if it is a strength/stamina problem. But I would be very curious if other have had the same issue and anything you’ve done to become a better closer. Thanks for your time!

What is your average round? 
 

What is your lowest round this year? 
 

How often is it that you play the front poorly and have a great finish? 

[naval2006]

Anything related to pulling through is of great use to close a good round. From mental to physical. One thing you should never do on those good days is to try to keep it in play. You’ll likely start slowing your swing down and you’ll ruin the round on the homestretch. 
 

 

[DoughBack18]

1 hour ago, MPStrat said:

What is your average round? 
 

What is your lowest round this year? 
 

How often is it that you play the front poorly and have a great finish? 

This calendar year my average round is a shade under 74. Low round for the year is 69. 
 

I honestly can’t remember the last time I started slow and really got it going late. It has happened, but can’t think off the top of my head when that would be. Not at all this season. 

[lance1420]

Fatigue possibly…

 

What was the temp on the back 9. 
 

Here in NC the back 9 can be brutal due to temp and humidity. 
 

It’s rare for me to finish as strong as I started during the heat of summer here. 
 

Do you have a go to trouble swing. 
 

I have one for when I’m tired. 
 

Shorter and one club up….

 

I may not be helping at all as you seem better than I am 🤣🤣

[Brooks_Cupcake]

4 minutes ago, DoughBack18 said:

This calendar year my average round is a shade under 74. Low round for the year is 69. 
 

I honestly can’t remember the last time I started slow and really got it going late. It has happened, but can’t think off the top of my head when that would be. Not at all this season. 

That’s my M.O. the last 4 men’s nights, I’ve spotted the opponent 2 of the first 3 holes even when I’m even or under par due to giving shots. And just keep trying to hit the middle of greens in regulation and put pressure on my opponent. It’s lead to 3 victories and a halved match, with the last round being +1. Match play has really helped my mindset with regular rounds where I keep pushing for birdies or bounce backs after a bogey or double, even when things happen that don’t go in my favour. 

[getitdaily]

8 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

9 I hit a really solid drive right at my target, but caught a big gust and didn’t carry a bunker by a yard or so that crosses the fairway. 
 

The 75 footer was a bad club. Was right in between 8 and 7, and looking back it was a 7 all day. 
 

The tree hole is a weird hole. Its a 90* dogleg, and that tree sits at the corner of it. The only flatish part of the fairway is just left of that tree, (i’m a lefty) so I played a little fade off the inside edge of it. Again, really solid drive but it just didn’t quite cut enough.
 

The majority of holes I would play those 2 drives are fine, but unfortunately they needed to be better on those 2 particular holes.
 

 

3 course mgmt mistakes. 

 

If the bunker on 9 means bogey then you don't go in it. You play short and don't count on guessing the wind correctly. 

 

You already noted what caused the 75 foot putt. 

 

The tree hole...if being near that tree blocks you from playing a normal shot then you stay away from it. Your start line was too aggressive. You started it too close to the tree which brought your pull side dispersion circle in play. 

 

Once you get to breaking par and 70, course mgmt is the difference maker.

Edited July 2, 2023 by getitdaily

[DoughBack18]

9 hours ago, lance1420 said:

Fatigue possibly…

 

What was the temp on the back 9. 
 

Here in NC the back 9 can be brutal due to temp and humidity. 
 

It’s rare for me to finish as strong as I started during the heat of summer here. 
 

Do you have a go to trouble swing. 
 

I have one for when I’m tired. 
 

Shorter and one club up….

 

I may not be helping at all as you seem better than I am 🤣🤣

I do think that fatigue may be a factor. I rarely get to play 18 anymore other than tournament rounds due to family and work obligations. So most of my practice is 9 holes. So I think that combined with not being as physically strong as I’d like to be may play into it.

Gotta work on both the physical and mental fitness, but the mental seems like the tougher of the 2 to find a way to practice/work on.

[Chunkitgood]

16 hours ago, DoughBack18 said:

9 I hit a really solid drive right at my target, but caught a big gust and didn’t carry a bunker by a yard or so that crosses the fairway. 
 

The 75 footer was a bad club. Was right in between 8 and 7, and looking back it was a 7 all day. 
 

The tree hole is a weird hole. Its a 90* dogleg, and that tree sits at the corner of it. The only flatish part of the fairway is just left of that tree, (i’m a lefty) so I played a little fade off the inside edge of it. Again, really solid drive but it just didn’t quite cut enough.
 

The majority of holes I would play those 2 drives are fine, but unfortunately they needed to be better on those 2 particular holes.
 

 

Read what you wrote objectively and see if you don’t agree with Getitdaily.

[vman]

Sounds like a mental issue. Your golf is good enough as you get yourself into a position early in the round. I'm not sure whether your clarity of intention and commitment are 100%. Probably some doubt sneaking in coupled with you questioning yourself. "Just hit a good one here", "don't leak it right", "this isn't the right club...but hit it anyway, just give it a bit more", "I'm in 3 putt country, this is fast, I'll be lucky to 2 putt here", "just try and clear that bunker but don't miss it left", "if you could just get through 12 and 13 with pars 14 is a birdie hole".

[Santiago Golf]

Golf is an 18 chapter book 

 

You have to read every page and every word

 

Nothing is easy the first time around, not is it the 10 time around 

 

I have never shot under 70 in competition 

 

I have shot 70 twice on my own ball and shot 70 in an Alt Shot Tournament on Par 73 course

 

The first two times I shot 70 where probably 2.5 months apart and I missed the same putt for 69 and it was probably less than 2 feet

 

Golf is tough

 

You have to go through your plan on every shot and not lose focus on the goal/task at hand

I find what helps for me is on courses I have played, knowing where I want to aim off the tee before I tee off and sticking to one shot shape for the day unless I really have to work one on those tee shots

If you can get off the tee on the last 6 holes when you have a good round going, it makes life so much easier

 

[bladehunter]

On 7/2/2023 at 6:18 AM, getitdaily said:

3 course mgmt mistakes. 

 

If the bunker on 9 means bogey then you don't go in it. You play short and don't count on guessing the wind correctly. 

 

You already noted what caused the 75 foot putt. 

 

The tree hole...if being near that tree blocks you from playing a normal shot then you stay away from it. Your start line was too aggressive. You started it too close to the tree which brought your pull side dispersion circle in play. 

 

Once you get to breaking par and 70, course mgmt is the difference maker.

Wanna come be my caddie ? 😂.    Part of me agrees with you.  But the other part of me says “ I got under par playing the way you’re telling me not to …. How can it be wrong “?  Real question.  I struggle with this mightily.  I’ve been 2-3 under a million times through 9.  I mean often.  And end up shooting 75 or so because of a similar chain of events .  One swing leads to a double on single tree branch tickle . Which leads to a bogey train.   Or worse.  Usually.  Don’t even lose a ball.  
 

I know I’m aggressive.  But. Every single time I play purposely conservative….. I’ll make 2-3 bogeys off the bat and the round is gone.  It just doesn’t suit me to layup everywhere and play for par.  I think you have to be a good putter to do that.  

[getitdaily]

1 minute ago, bladehunter said:

Wanna come be my caddie ? 😂.    Part of me agrees with you.  But the other part of me says “ I got under par playing the way you’re telling me not to …. How can it be wrong “?  Real question.  I struggle with this mightily.  I’ve been 2-3 under a million times through 9.  I mean often.  And end up shooting 75 or so because of a similar chain of events .  One swing leads to a double on single tree branch tickle . Which leads to a bogey train.   Or worse.  Usually.  Don’t even lose a ball.  
 

I know I’m aggressive.  But. Every single time I play purposely conservative….. I’ll make 2-3 bogeys off the bat and the round is gone.  It just doesn’t suit me to layup everywhere and play for par.  I think you have to be a good putter to do that.  

There are some holes that par is a solid score and aggressive play isn't smart. 

 

I know what happens when you get under early. You start to play with house money..."I'm under par, I can take a risk here and it'll only cost me a bogey but it could lead to a really good birdie opportunity". Often times you get under early and throw game plan out. Maybe the front side was the easy side. Maybe you were just playing well or had perfect numbers. 

 

There's a difference between being conservative and taking smart lines or playing the smart shot. Those are risk equations you have to learn and then be disciplined. 

 

There are holes where bogey avoidance is the aggressive play...

[SNIPERBBB]

Sometimes being conservative makes for some lazy swings.  Laying up for the sake of laying up isnt a good idea. There's gotta be a reason to lay up. And if you lay up, lay up. Don't tempt fate by picking a club that can come within 10-15 yards of the bunker/pond/EOF. 

[wagolfer7]

Hitting the under par barrier consistently is tough.  Could be some swing improvements needed.  But also could just be a level of focus that you need to get to.  

 

I struggled for 2 years trying to break that barrier.  Went to a golf clinic and was told to be more aggressive and make more birdies 🙂  

 

2 things happened from that advice

1) My scores went up at first 🙂 But I also started to get much better at recovery shots.  Instead of just hitting it back in the fairway, I started hitting shots more towards the green.  Made saving par a lot more likely than the bogey.  

2) My focus leveled way up.  I used to always start thinking - OK 3 under after front 9, I'm gonna do it.  I'm going to shoot low today.  Then I'd dive bomb somewhere on the back.  I don't ever think past the upcoming shot now.  I just changed my mentality.  It's truly 1 shot at a time.  I've shot 5 under - starting 3 over after the first 3.  I've shot 2 over after being 5 under after 9.  An under par round comes in many different flavors.  Just take it one shot at a time.  When you break the barrier, they'll keep coming.  My focus stepping up to the shot got better too.  Part of the game that isn't discussed much.  But that 15 seconds before you pull the trigger, you can really get into a zone where you just block everything out.    

[PracticeSwinger]

1 hour ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Sometimes being conservative makes for some lazy swings.  Laying up for the sake of laying up isnt a good idea. There's gotta be a reason to lay up. And if you lay up, lay up. Don't tempt fate by picking a club that can come within 10-15 yards of the bunker/pond/EOF. 

Exactly, with every other shot you get laser focus on your aim / target while you can get lazy with layup shots : "Don't fall asleep on layups" is a great advice

[ericz]

Sounds like a combo of course management mistakes and fatigue. Do you eat during the round? You may need to eat to help maintain focus and good decision making. I force myself to eat something each side, usually around 7 & 14. Even if I'm not hungry I feel like it always helps me.

[bladehunter]

19 hours ago, getitdaily said:

There are some holes that par is a solid score and aggressive play isn't smart. 

 

I know what happens when you get under early. You start to play with house money..."I'm under par, I can take a risk here and it'll only cost me a bogey but it could lead to a really good birdie opportunity". Often times you get under early and throw game plan out. Maybe the front side was the easy side. Maybe you were just playing well or had perfect numbers. 

 

There's a difference between being conservative and taking smart lines or playing the smart shot. Those are risk equations you have to learn and then be disciplined. 

 

There are holes where bogey avoidance is the aggressive play...

I get what you’re saying.  But I don’t think of it that way.  Just being honest. I think of it like this.  I think “ I’m 3 under…. Have to keep the hammer down to outrun the bogeys “.  Meaning 2-3 bogeys are inevitable… so in my mind I need 4-6 birdies to shoot under par.  For a while when my scoring average was lowest , I averaged 4.3 a round.  I’m down to 2.9 a round now.  
 

the front at my home course is actually the hardest side.  Includes a par4 where you’re forced to layup to 160-205 out because  of water and a par3 that plays 205-220 depending on pin and tee depth.  
 

I hear what you’re saying. But it’s beyond me how to guess at when and where to do what .  I’ve played this course thousands of times.  I’ve shot 65 on it. I’ve carried a scoring average of 74 on it.  I’ve been 5 under in a club championship on it , and finished even par and lost by 1.  And am currently in a slump that so bad that I don’t want to play anymore.   And it’s not swing  related.  I’m flushing the ball.  Hitting it farther.  And getting into more trouble.  
 

An example.  17th hole. A drivable ( if the wind is right ) par 4. It’s about 323 to the front edge from the back.  Slight dogleg left. Although a straight shot isn’t penalized.  Woods left of the tee the whole way. In the last 8 rounds I’ve birdies it 4 times. And I’ve made 2 pars and the last 2 rounds I’ve made a double and a triple bogey after lost balls.  Both because of a quick hook left trying to drive the green.   You rarely get it on the surface. But I regularly can get it into a greenside bunker , or up around the fringe. And I’ll contextualize that by saying most times I go after it , it’s because the round is trash anyway.  If I have a score to protect in an event , I’ll hit a 6 iron or so off the tee.  
 

like I said before. I’ve tried to just play irons off the tee , and play for pars.  I seem to still get the same result.  At some point a blowup hole will come. A bad swing , a bad bounce etc and boom. Double bogey.  
 

I don’t know.  I just empathize with the OP.  I don’t find course management easy at all. I Not even close. Hitting the ball is easy ( relatively ) but knowing WHAT  to hit is not. I can see options. But it’s never clear what the best path is.    And the irony is. It got worse for me when I tried to use decade.  Apparently I was blissfully ignorant before.  Flying off instinct. But All the system caused was doubt. It got me to hit driver  more , or not at all depending on the course … day to say that seemed contradictory depending on how I was hitting driver.  That’s a doubt inducing coma.  Which is the enemy of good golf.  I’m trying to flush that crap now.  

[SNIPERBBB]

6 hours ago, bladehunter said:

I get what you’re saying.  But I don’t think of it that way.  Just being honest. I think of it like this.  I think “ I’m 3 under…. Have to keep the hammer down to outrun the bogeys “.  Meaning 2-3 bogeys are inevitable… so in my mind I need 4-6 birdies to shoot under par.  For a while when my scoring average was lowest , I averaged 4.3 a round.  I’m down to 2.9 a round now.  
 

the front at my home course is actually the hardest side.  Includes a par4 where you’re forced to layup to 160-205 out because  of water and a par3 that plays 205-220 depending on pin and tee depth.  
 

I hear what you’re saying. But it’s beyond me how to guess at when and where to do what .  I’ve played this course thousands of times.  I’ve shot 65 on it. I’ve carried a scoring average of 74 on it.  I’ve been 5 under in a club championship on it , and finished even par and lost by 1.  And am currently in a slump that so bad that I don’t want to play anymore.   And it’s not swing  related.  I’m flushing the ball.  Hitting it farther.  And getting into more trouble.  
 

An example.  17th hole. A drivable ( if the wind is right ) par 4. It’s about 323 to the front edge from the back.  Slight dogleg left. Although a straight shot isn’t penalized.  Woods left of the tee the whole way. In the last 8 rounds I’ve birdies it 4 times. And I’ve made 2 pars and the last 2 rounds I’ve made a double and a triple bogey after lost balls.  Both because of a quick hook left trying to drive the green.   You rarely get it on the surface. But I regularly can get it into a greenside bunker , or up around the fringe. And I’ll contextualize that by saying most times I go after it , it’s because the round is trash anyway.  If I have a score to protect in an event , I’ll hit a 6 iron or so off the tee.  
 

like I said before. I’ve tried to just play irons off the tee , and play for pars.  I seem to still get the same result.  At some point a blowup hole will come. A bad swing , a bad bounce etc and boom. Double bogey.  
 

I don’t know.  I just empathize with the OP.  I don’t find course management easy at all. I Not even close. Hitting the ball is easy ( relatively ) but knowing WHAT  to hit is not. I can see options. But it’s never clear what the best path is.    And the irony is. It got worse for me when I tried to use decade.  Apparently I was blissfully ignorant before.  Flying off instinct. But All the system caused was doubt. It got me to hit driver  more , or not at all depending on the course … day to say that seemed contradictory depending on how I was hitting driver.  That’s a doubt inducing coma.  Which is the enemy of good golf.  I’m trying to flush that crap now.  

So basically you're saying that you go into prevent defense mode or you go into full Phil Mickelson mode  

 

Problem with going prevent defense mode is it takes you out of your comfort zone and that manifests itself in weird ways. It also tends to put more stress on followup shot. Good golf is about setting up the next shot. Playing prevent if the opposite of setting up the next shot . 

 

Just never go Phil Mickelson. You should know which holes you can take advantage of to make birdies.  Likewise the ones you just need to make par and survive.

 

Bad swings and bad bounces happens . In the latter case, obvious bad bounce givers on the course can be avoided sometimes. When they can't, there's really not much point getting upset about em. Trying to plan your way out of bad swings and random bad bounces is a good way to send you to the looney bin. 

[bladehunter]

3 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

So basically you're saying that you go into prevent defense mode or you go into full Phil Mickelson mode  

 

Problem with going prevent defense mode is it takes you out of your comfort zone and that manifests itself in weird ways. It also tends to put more stress on followup shot. Good golf is about setting up the next shot. Playing prevent if the opposite of setting up the next shot . 

 

Just never go Phil Mickelson. You should know which holes you can take advantage of to make birdies.  Likewise the ones you just need to make par and survive.

 

Bad swings and bad bounces happens . In the latter case, obvious bad bounce givers on the course can be avoided sometimes. When they can't, there's really not much point getting upset about em. Trying to plan your way out of bad swings and random bad bounces is a good way to send you to the looney bin. 

I hate to assign that to myself given his recent villainous role , but yes.  I have a lot of his traits.  Including the shortgame.  And the  gambling gene … Not a brag. But it’s part of the mental issues.  I CAN get out of pure hell/jail a lot of the time.  This fuels my inability to know when to try and when not to. And it likely also fuels the overall aggressive play.  Because  I truly do not fear a shortgame shot. Not one.  I fear a 40-60 foot putt much much worse.  Stats show this as true and justified fear vs not. 

And there’s the rub.  The line you mentioned “ some you just need to make par and survive “.  I don’t get that.  I don’t get what makes a hole one way or the other.  I’ve tried to quantify it. And unless it’s that 220 yard par 3 it’s not obvious to me.   And it seems to all depend on the day.  If you hit 2-3 good shots why can’t every hole be a birdie hole ?  Now if you hit a poor tee ball , then I get gearing down the rest of the hole.  That’s the whole issue. When.  
 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

I hate to assign that to myself given his recent villainous role , but yes.  I have a lot of his traits.  Including the shortgame.  And the  gambling gene … Not a brag. But it’s part of the mental issues.  I CAN get out of pure hell/jail a lot of the time.  This fuels my inability to know when to try and when not to. And it likely also fuels the overall aggressive play.  Because  I truly do not fear a shortgame shot. Not one.  I fear a 40-60 foot putt much much worse.  Stats show this as true and justified fear vs not. 

And there’s the rub.  The line you mentioned “ some you just need to make par and survive “.  I don’t get that.  I don’t get what makes a hole one way or the other.  I’ve tried to quantify it. And unless it’s that 220 yard par 3 it’s not obvious to me.   And it seems to all depend on the day.  If you hit 2-3 good shots why can’t every hole be a birdie hole ?  Now if you hit a poor tee ball , then I get gearing down the rest of the hole.  That’s the whole issue. When.  
 

 

When you have to hit a great shot to make a birdie, that's when you're looking at par being a very good score for the hole. I tell guys all the time that it takes only a couple mediocre to good shots to make a birdie. Par 5s you can get away with one bad shot and make birdie as long as you didn't go OB. 

[bladehunter]

8 hours ago, SNIPERBBB said:

When you have to hit a great shot to make a birdie, that's when you're looking at par being a very good score for the hole. I tell guys all the time that it takes only a couple mediocre to good shots to make a birdie. Par 5s you can get away with one bad shot and make birdie as long as you didn't go OB. 

Preface this by saying. I’m absolutely not trying to argue here.  Trying to discuss  and learn.  That being said….

 

that’s interesting.. because again. I see it as opposite. In my eyes a birdie requires a great approach shot. Or great shortgame shot.  How else would it occur ?  

 

[SNIPERBBB]

1 hour ago, bladehunter said:

Preface this by saying. I’m absolutely not trying to argue here.  Trying to discuss  and learn.  That being said….

 

that’s interesting.. because again. I see it as opposite. In my eyes a birdie requires a great approach shot. Or great shortgame shot.  How else would it occur ?  

 

Unless you can only make birdie putts inside 4 ft....if you hit anything within 20ft you can make a decent putt to make bird. Doesn't take a Herculean effort to hit it within 20 ft unless you're on US Open or Augusta type greens that are either rock hard or severely sloped or both. 

[bladehunter]

20 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Unless you can only make birdie putts inside 4 ft....if you hit anything within 20ft you can make a decent putt to make bird. Doesn't take a Herculean effort to hit it within 20 ft unless you're on US Open or Augusta type greens that are either rock hard or severely sloped or both. 

Right i understand the mantra that is preached. “ middle of greens -hope a putt drops “.     I really wish that worked.  I make so few feet of putts it’s incredible.  Some good players will never be great putters.  I think you have to play to your strengths. Not try to play to improve weakness past a reasonable level.  For me that’s mitigating 3 putts. And keeping approach game sharp so I get those close looks.  
 

To be say a scratch to +2 player on a course rated in the middle range or most courses , you either have to be a great approach player.  Or a great putter.  You can’t be a guy who 2 putts every green. Because bogey free rounds are rare.  People act like 2-4 putts a round will just drop accidentally. I don’t find any shred of truth in that.  If I make putts it’s on the line I was looking at. If I don’t then they just don’t go in.  There’s never any accidental 20 footers. I’m trying to make them all. 
 

 

let’s use Phil since you mentioned him.  Is there anyone who believes that you could take Phil at age 20 and force him to play like Berrnhard Langer ?  And it work out.  At all , much less better ?  I think we all agree there. That’s a non starter.  Right ?  So why do we look at this as a one size fits all thing ?  Again. Not arguing. It’s just a very personal subject to me.  We look at it as right/wrong.  Scenario.  I just have a tough time with it. Because I play to my nature and for 2 years I carried a 73 and change scoring average on traveling schedule of many courses , playing events as high as USga mid am qualifier and state level mid am . That’s not to say that’s great. It’s not. It’s mid pack at best for any state level event. That’s gone now in a year long slump.  So much so that I’m not playing in anything this year.  Trying to figure it out.  
 

 

[SNIPERBBB]

34 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right i understand the mantra that is preached. “ middle of greens -hope a putt drops “.     I really wish that worked.  I make so few feet of putts it’s incredible.  Some good players will never be great putters.  I think you have to play to your strengths. Not try to play to improve weakness past a reasonable level.  For me that’s mitigating 3 putts. And keeping approach game sharp so I get those close looks.  
 

To be say a scratch to +2 player on a course rated in the middle range or most courses , you either have to be a great approach player.  Or a great putter.  You can’t be a guy who 2 putts every green. Because bogey free rounds are rare.  People act like 2-4 putts a round will just drop accidentally. I don’t find any shred of truth in that.  If I make putts it’s on the line I was looking at. If I don’t then they just don’t go in.  There’s never any accidental 20 footers. I’m trying to make them all. 
 

 

let’s use Phil since you mentioned him.  Is there anyone who believes that you could take Phil at age 20 and force him to play like Berrnhard Langer ?  And it work out.  At all , much less better ?  I think we all agree there. That’s a non starter.  Right ?  So why do we look at this as a one size fits all thing ?  Again. Not arguing. It’s just a very personal subject to me.  We look at it as right/wrong.  Scenario.  I just have a tough time with it. Because I play to my nature and for 2 years I carried a 73 and change scoring average on traveling schedule of many courses , playing events as high as USga mid am qualifier and state level mid am . That’s not to say that’s great. It’s not. It’s mid pack at best for any state level event. That’s gone now in a year long slump.  So much so that I’m not playing in anything this year.  Trying to figure it out.  
 

 

Not quite saying that either. Middle of the green is a losing strategy; unless you're forced into it because of the circumstances. 

[getitdaily]

48 minutes ago, bladehunter said:

Right i understand the mantra that is preached. “ middle of greens -hope a putt drops “.     I really wish that worked.  I make so few feet of putts it’s incredible.  Some good players will never be great putters.  I think you have to play to your strengths. Not try to play to improve weakness past a reasonable level.  For me that’s mitigating 3 putts. And keeping approach game sharp so I get those close looks.  
 

To be say a scratch to +2 player on a course rated in the middle range or most courses , you either have to be a great approach player.  Or a great putter.  You can’t be a guy who 2 putts every green. Because bogey free rounds are rare.  People act like 2-4 putts a round will just drop accidentally. I don’t find any shred of truth in that.  If I make putts it’s on the line I was looking at. If I don’t then they just don’t go in.  There’s never any accidental 20 footers. I’m trying to make them all. 
 

 

let’s use Phil since you mentioned him.  Is there anyone who believes that you could take Phil at age 20 and force him to play like Berrnhard Langer ?  And it work out.  At all , much less better ?  I think we all agree there. That’s a non starter.  Right ?  So why do we look at this as a one size fits all thing ?  Again. Not arguing. It’s just a very personal subject to me.  We look at it as right/wrong.  Scenario.  I just have a tough time with it. Because I play to my nature and for 2 years I carried a 73 and change scoring average on traveling schedule of many courses , playing events as high as USga mid am qualifier and state level mid am . That’s not to say that’s great. It’s not. It’s mid pack at best for any state level event. That’s gone now in a year long slump.  So much so that I’m not playing in anything this year.  Trying to figure it out.  
 

 

Do you know your dispersion circles for your mid/long irons and driver?

[SNIPERBBB]

Let me back up and say let's not confuse strategy for tactics. Laying up or aiming for the middle of the green is not a strategy. They're things you do to execute a strategy or to bail you out when execution of the strategy fails.