Tee in the butt end of the putter grip

[AzRoger]

Rules aside, why would anyone want to look at the end of their putter grip while making a putting stroke? Makes no sense to me and seems to go against any putting tips I've read from the experts.

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, AzRoger said:

Rules aside, why would anyone want to look at the end of their putter grip while making a putting stroke? Makes no sense to me and seems to go against any putting tips I've read from the experts.

Takes focus away from the head of the putter. Just what's worked well for me...swing the handle. When I focus on the top of the handle I can get the stroke started slightly inside better than a focal point down the grip.

 

Not suggesting you try it...just what works for me.

[Hawkeye77]

18 hours ago, rogolf said:

And that’s the part that is questionable in your purpose for inserting the tee in the grip. If it’s not for that purpose, what is it for?

Yep, always good for people to quote the entire and relevant portions of the rules and not just read far enough to accomplish the purpose.

 

OP has already said flat out he uses it for assistance, but wants to claim a gray area and asking if he is really using it for assistance is he really using it for assistance and now a "stretch" when the full text is provided and he has already said that is his intent.

 

"I want to know if I'm violating the rules." 

 

"I have a workaround that flies in the face of my clear intent, so don't tell me I'm violating the rules."

[Colin L]

3 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I think 4.3a is still a very big stretch here. 

 

If i like to put a tee in my mouth when I putt because I like to look at it while I putt...that won't be an infraction. 

Why not?  Look at the words of 4.3a and ask yourself these questions:

1. Is  the tee part of my equipment?  If yes,  answer the next question.

2. Am I hoping to putt better by having the tee in my mouth?  If yes, answer the next question.B

3. Is sticking a tee in your mouth while making a stroke fundamentally different from  its normal use in the game?  if yes, read 4.3s again and see how it applies.

 

Mind you, if you want to putt squinting crossed-eyed down your nose at a peg n your mouth, I'm not sure that I'd be bothered.

[Mr. Bean]

2 hours ago, bcjim said:

Do you peg it up as well? 🤣

 

I mostly agree though.  It doesn't change the performance of the club and is otherwise specifically allowed.

 

You are still getting it wrong, unfortunately.

 

A tee peg stuck in the grip does not make the club non-conforming. That is what the Equipment Rules tells us.

 

However, Rule 4.3a tells us that such a peg may help you to make your stroke and that is why it is not allowed if put there for that purpose. That is the reason why certain devices attached to the end of a putter are allowed as their task is to help lifting a ball from the cup, not to help a player in making a stroke.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Mr. Bean

[Shilgy]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:51 AM, antip said:

LOL, I don't think the USGA is too concerned by your view, unless you try it on in one of their events. 

 

Summing up: you asked an interesting rules question publicly. I identified the way the USGA rules in such a scenario and provided a recent example of their wording. It accords with the advice that a number of experienced rules folk also provided here. Anyone else reading this thread is now alerted to the way the rules apply to your question, so thank you for bringing it forward.

Question….if a player started putting a tee in the end of the grip to keep the end from being wet in the bag on rainy days that’s allowed? And can keep it in while playing a shot and that’s still allowed?  But the same tee in the end for another player is not allowed because he looks at it while putting? But if the player that did it to keep grips dry finds he likes to look at it while putting it’s still allowed because it was not his initial intent?  
 Sounds like if, as some have stated, it would be ok to paint a white spot on the end of the putter grip would it also be allowed to use the tee but glue it in place?

 

Sounds awfully difficult to police as a rule if it applies differently to each player’s alleged intent.

[Shilgy]

On 8/11/2023 at 5:51 AM, antip said:

LOL, I don't think the USGA is too concerned by your view, unless you try it on in one of their events. 

 

Summing up: you asked an interesting rules question publicly. I identified the way the USGA rules in such a scenario and provided a recent example of their wording. It accords with the advice that a number of experienced rules folk also provided here. Anyone else reading this thread is now alerted to the way the rules apply to your question, so thank you for bringing it forward.

Duplicate

Edited August 13, 2023 by Shilgy

[Mr. Bean]

15 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

Question….if a player started putting a tee in the end of the grip to keep the end from being wet in the bag on rainy days that’s allowed? And can keep it in while playing a shot and that’s still allowed?  But the same tee in the end for another player is not allowed because he looks at it while putting? But if the player that did it to keep grips dry finds he likes to look at it while putting it’s still allowed because it was not his initial intent?  
 Sounds like if, as some have stated, it would be ok to paint a white spot on the end of the putter grip would it also be allowed to use the tee but glue it in place?

 

Sounds awfully difficult to police as a rule if it applies differently to each player’s alleged intent.

 

Police?? A player must know why s/he is doing things so there is no need to "police" anything. If that tee peg helps you in your stroke and you put it there for that purpose it is a breach, period.

 

Afa glueing a tee peg is concerned that is no different than just putting it into the hole. Tee peg is an equipment and use of equipment in an abnormal way is a breach of R4.3a. Just paint the darn ring if you must have a spot to look at while you putt.

[tatertot]

On 8/11/2023 at 10:01 AM, Mr. Bean said:

 

You are still getting it wrong, unfortunately.

 

A tee peg stuck in the grip does not make the club non-conforming. That is what the Equipment Rules tells us.

 

However, Rule 4.3a tells us that such a peg may help you to make your stroke and that is why it is not allowed if put there for that purpose. That is the reason why certain devices attached to the end of a putter are allowed as their task is to help lifting a ball from the cup, not to help a player in making a stroke.

 

 

Here's where the grey area is, for me at least, in 4.3a ...

 

Is the "performance" spoken of the performance of the swing (the actual act of swinging) or the performance of the club (improving how the club performs during the swing) ... I interpret the wording to mean the performance of the club, i.e. adding weight, helping aerodynamics, improving MOI, etc. The tee is not doing that ... it's improving the performance of the swing, which i don't interpret the rule as referring to.

[Shilgy]

13 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

Police?? A player must know why s/he is doing things so there is no need to "police" anything. If that tee peg helps you in your stroke and you put it there for that purpose it is a breach, period.

 

Afa glueing a tee peg is concerned that is no different than just putting it into the hole. Tee peg is an equipment and use of equipment in an abnormal way is a breach of R4.3a. Just paint the darn ring if you must have a spot to look at while you putt.

To be clear…you read it as an infraction because it is a golf tee stuck in the end? A small stick the same length as a tee in the end for the same reason would be allowed?

[Mr. Bean]

5 minutes ago, tatertot said:

Here's where the grey area is, for me at least, in 4.3a ...

 

Is the "performance" spoken of the performance of the swing (the actual act of swinging) or the performance of the club (improving how the club performs during the swing) ... I interpret the wording to mean the performance of the club, i.e. adding weight, helping aerodynamics, improving MOI, etc. The tee is not doing that ... it's improving the performance of the swing, which i don't interpret the rule as referring to.

 

Rule 4.3a does not deal with performance of a club but use of Equipment. Try to concentrate on that and especially on the 2nd bullet and you will see the light.

[Mr. Bean]

1 minute ago, Shilgy said:

To be clear…you read it as an infraction because it is a golf tee stuck in the end? A small stick the same length as a tee in the end for the same reason would be allowed?

 

I would say no, that would simply be circumventing the Rule.

[Shilgy]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Bean said:

 

I would say no, that would simply be circumventing the Rule.

In reading 4.1 I do not see anything to support that premise.  
 

Here is my issue with you not understanding or agreeing with my previous post about policing the rule.  When it comes to equipment how can intent be part of it?  As in handicap compliance peer review must be allowed.  So there are rules about use of equipment and how they cannot be used.
 This interpretation of the rules is as vague as the ruling bodies decision to allow music if used for “right reasons”.

 

May I play music?

Yes. However, you may not do so if the purpose is to eliminate distractions or help you with your swing.

 

What happens is we wind up with rules that allow behavior by one player but the exact same thing would not be allowed for another.  Which makes it impossible to enforce.

[Mr. Bean]

23 minutes ago, Shilgy said:

In reading 4.1 I do not see anything to support that premise.  
 

Here is my issue with you not understanding or agreeing with my previous post about policing the rule.  When it comes to equipment how can intent be part of it?  As in handicap compliance peer review must be allowed.  So there are rules about use of equipment and how they cannot be used.
 This interpretation of the rules is as vague as the ruling bodies decision to allow music if used for “right reasons”.

 

May I play music?

Yes. However, you may not do so if the purpose is to eliminate distractions or help you with your swing.

 

What happens is we wind up with rules that allow behavior by one player but the exact same thing would not be allowed for another.  Which makes it impossible to enforce.

 

You are reading a wrong Rule, 4.1 has nothing to do with this.

 

Try this:

4.3a

Allowed and Prohibited Uses of Equipment

A player may use equipment to help their play during a round, except that a player must not create a potential advantage by:

• Using equipment (other than a club or a ball) that artificially eliminates or reduces the need for a skill or judgment that is essential to the challenge of the game, or
• Using equipment (including a club or a ball) in an abnormal way in making a stroke. “Abnormal way” means a way that is fundamentally different than its intended use and is not normally recognized as part of playing the game.

[Mr. Bean]

I have nothing further to add. Maybe someone else can explain this to you so that you understand the R4.3a and intent.

[Shilgy]

1 hour ago, Mr. Bean said:

I have nothing further to add. Maybe someone else can explain this to you so that you understand the R4.3a and intent.

A rule needs to be definitive imo.  I am the farthest thing…well I thought I was until this….from a rules are stupid guy.  So I understand the intent as it were. But using the tee for one “abnormal” use being allowed….as in keeping end of grip dry….and the same use being not allowed because you want to look at it?

 

Can a person with longer hair put a tee in their hair to keep it from blowing into their eyes during a stroke?

[sui generis]

I think that most referees aren't overly concerned about refereeing Rules which have an element of "intent" in them. Ask the right question(s) and apply the Rule based upon the answer.

 

"Hey, Bob, what's with the tee in the end of your putter grip?"

"Ah, it keeps the water out."

"Fair enough, enjoy your round."

 

"Hey, Ron, what's with the tee in the end of your putter grip?"

"Ah, it helps my putting stroke."

"Stand by while I call this one in. We may have a problem."

 

Only Ron uses equipment in an abnormal way in making a stroke.

 

Now, about Rules which have that element of "intent" in them. While, at first thought, some might rather not deal with "intent," I think that removing intent would make for a harsh environment.

 

For example, the not so recent change removing the penalty for accidentally moving the ball or ball marker on the putting green. Great, we all said. An "intent" based Rule that works.

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Shilgy said:

To be clear…you read it as an infraction because it is a golf tee stuck in the end? A small stick the same length as a tee in the end for the same reason would be allowed?

 

And what about all the players who have Arccos, ShotScope, etc. tags in their grips? "I like them. They help me play better golf." NOT a penalty.

[st1800e]

53 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

And what about all the players who have Arccos, ShotScope, etc. tags in their grips? "I like them. They help me play better golf." NOT a penalty.

Those devises collect information.  Fine to look at the app/data between rounds.  If you’re looking at the data during the round, current or past, I’d say that’s a penalty.  

Edited August 14, 2023 by st1800e

[iacas]

1 minute ago, st1800e said:

Those devises collect information.  Fine to look at between rounds.  If you’re looking at the data during the round, current or past, I’d say that’s a penalty.  

 

I am not commenting on the data. I'm pointing out that we stick things in the grip ends of clubs and they are fine. And the ramifications of that, too… what if one falls out? What if you like to look at that while you putt?

[Shilgy]

On 8/10/2023 at 9:30 PM, James the Hogan Fan said:

My take on this is different than the above. The "tee peg" (not a tee but a "tee peg") is specifically listed as a conforming external attachment in Equipment Rule 2.1a(iv). When a "tee peg" is inserted in the grip, it ceases to be a "tee" and is now a legal external attachment to a golf club. 

 

I might that argue inserting a tee peg as the op has suggested has changed the "playing characteristics" of the club (based on the Op's stated intent), so I don't think he would be allowed to remove the tee at will, lest he run afoul of rule 4.1 for changing the playing characteristics of the club during the round.

 

Why would the equipment rules specifically say an action is conforming, without throwing in a caveat that to perform that action breaches a different rule? 

I’m with James on this one.  The rules specifically allow tee pegs in the but of the club….along with ball markers and the ball pick up things…while anything else must not be used during a stroke.

 

If the rules specifically allow tee pegs how can some here say not allowed?

 

https://www.randa.org/roe/the-rules-of-equipment/part-2-conformance-of-clubs#21a-general

 

Examples of attachments that could be permitted include:

• Temporary, non-permanent attachments to the shaft such as decals for identification - such attachments, for identification only, may also be permitted on the clubhead (other than the face).  Additionally, tape to protect the shaft is permitted.  However, these attachments must not be usable for any other purpose (e.g. alignment).
• Temporary, non-permanent attachments to the shaft (e.g. “clip-on” devices), provided such items do not excessively protrude from the shaft, their cross-section conforms to the shape of the shaft and they are sufficiently fixed.  Other “clip-on” devices that do not conform to the shape of the shaft (e.g. a club “prop” for use in wet weather) may be attached to the shaft between shots but must be removed prior to making a stroke.
• Other material added to the shaft, such as for alignment purposes, provided it is considered semi-permanent.  However, such applications must not breach Rule 4.3.  “Semi-permanent” is interpreted to mean durable and not easily removable.  Additionally, it must not be re-usable and/or must be essentially destroyed upon removal.
• Temporary, non-permanent attachments to the butt end of the grip such as tee pegs, ball markers or ball retrieving devices, provided:
  • such items do not cause the grip to be considered moulded for the hands or create a bulge or waist in the grip; and
  • the outer diameter of the item is less than or equal to the outer diameter of the butt end of the grip and the item does not extend beyond the butt end of the grip by more than 2 inches (50.8mm).
• Other temporary, non-permanent attachments to any part of the grip other than the butt end, provided such items are removed prior to making a stroke.  However, tape or gauze applied to the full length of the grip is permitted provided the grip conforms in its modified state and the underlying grip conforms.

[st1800e]

23 minutes ago, iacas said:

What if you like to look at that while you putt?

There’s a lot of things people like to look at.
 

In golf if you attach something to your club, specifically that helps you play well because you look at it,  I’m in doubt that’s not a violation.   Look at the heel or the toe, or the hosel, ok.   Just don’t add anything to look at because you like to look at it and you think it helps you putt better.   
And why does one need to look at a tee in the grip? Can’t one just look at the hole in the grip?  

[iacas]

1 minute ago, st1800e said:

And why does one need to look at a tee in the grip? Can’t one just look at the hole in the grip?  

 

Ask the one in the topic who said it. That person wasn't me.

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, st1800e said:

There’s a lot of things people like to look at.
 

In golf if you attach something to your club, specifically that helps you play well because you look at it,  I’m in doubt that’s not a violation.   Look at the heel or the toe, or the hosel, ok.   Just don’t add anything to look at because you like to look at it and you think it helps you putt better.   
And why does one need to look at a tee in the grip? Can’t one just look at the hole in the grip?  

Why doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is if a tee in the grip end is an infraction if my intent is to observe it while I putt.

[st1800e]

20 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Why doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is if a tee in the grip end is an infraction if my intent is to observe it while I putt.

Agreed,  the operative phrase here is “adding something to look at” 

[st1800e]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

 

Ask the one in the topic who said it. That person wasn't me.

It’s an open forum, if the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it…

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, st1800e said:

It’s an open forum, if the shoe doesn’t fit, don’t wear it…

 

Or, quote and ask the correct person.

[antip]

15 hours ago, Shilgy said:

Question….if a player started putting a tee in the end of the grip to keep the end from being wet in the bag on rainy days that’s allowed? And can keep it in while playing a shot and that’s still allowed?  But the same tee in the end for another player is not allowed because he looks at it while putting? But if the player that did it to keep grips dry finds he likes to look at it while putting it’s still allowed because it was not his initial intent?  
 Sounds like if, as some have stated, it would be ok to paint a white spot on the end of the putter grip would it also be allowed to use the tee but glue it in place?

 

Sounds awfully difficult to police as a rule if it applies differently to each player’s alleged intent.

There are a number of rules that operate this way. Another example is listening to music. Why are you doing it? One purpose is allowed and another is not. This tee in the end of the grip question is in the same camp. Is it a refereeing challenge? - You bet.

[Colin L]

50 minutes ago, antip said:

There are a number of rules that operate this way. Another example is listening to music. Why are you doing it? One purpose is allowed and another is not. This tee in the end of the grip question is in the same camp. Is it a refereeing challenge? - You bet.

Anyone who is a) daft enough to do something as bizarre as to stick a peg tee in the butt end of their putter in order to squint at and help them make stroke and  b) even dafter enough to admit to anyone what their purpose is deserves what they get.

 

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Colin L

[Mr. Bean]

1 hour ago, antip said:

There are a number of rules that operate this way. Another example is listening to music.

 

Or the notorious cigar smoke. Are you smoking a cigar to enjoy it or in order to use the smoke to see the wind direction?