How would you play this hole ?

[PracticeSwinger]

Always loved those threads and wanted to pick the WRXers brains out to discuss on this finishing hole where I play from time to time.

 

Setup - it's a 428yds par 4 from the tips or 410yds, 394yds from a few tees up (so adjust first shot distances accordingly to your game). Wind is usually mild, across from right to left, fairway runs fast, rough is thick but definitely not US Open-ish
 

Few options, from the tips :
 

• Driver at 265ish brings a 150yds approach shot (first image), offers a 38yds wide fairway at that distance but as you can see in the images - OB left or at least tree trouble and water right (third image)
• Trying to fit in a 230ish shot gets water out of the equation but brings the fairway bunker into play, 28yds fairway wide at that point... if you end up into the bunker you got a 180ish bunker shot and if you elect to play it safe from there it's a 80-90yds shot to the widest part of the fairway that requires a subsequent up and down from 90ish to save par
• Laying up to 200ish takes care of OB, trees, water and the fairway bunker - but you're then faced with a 210ish approach shot (second image) to a well guarded green, that you need to carry at least 170 or else you have to drop 100ish from the green and dunk it in to save par

 

Green complex is relatively normal, 20 paces wide, 27 paces long - tilted and good slope from the back to the front, from left to right in general, no big tiers. Greenside bunkers are not that deep and sand is well maintained, rough around the green is thick but we're not taking broccoli here. Offers a few pin placements, find it middle left on most of the days I played there, so shorter right is the upslope putt

 

(finally for the WRX crew, driver at 300 carry gets you to a 26yds wide fairway that runs toward water on the right and quickly into the trees from the left - if we want to include that option)

 

[getitdaily]

Is that a little pot bunker on the left side of fwy

[chollier986]

I’d try to be conservative, but block it into the fairway bunker on the right.  From there I’d catch it a bit heavy and hit it in the drink.  Take a drop and hit it to the center of the green, and 3-putt for a triple.

[darom86]

For driver at 265, the more pertinent question is how wide is it between the ob and the water and not how wide the fairway is.  If its ~60 yards between the stroke penalty hazards, that should be more than enough room to hit driver.  You need a really clear reason and benefit to back off of driver.  The question that drives strategy when looking at holes is how can I make the easiest par.

[PracticeSwinger]

47 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Is that a little pot bunker on the left side of fwy

No it’s not : huge old tree that was removed (thank god as the visual off the tee wasn’t that fun back then) - converted to a little patch of rough; not that penal

[Santiago Golf]

My driver is 260 carry club, my 4 wood is about 240 carry club.

 

I would probably aim a little right of the pot bunker and either bunt driver or full 4 wood depending on the wind

 

[PracticeSwinger]

42 minutes ago, darom86 said:

For driver at 265, the more pertinent question is how wide is it between the ob and the water and not how wide the fairway is.  If its ~60 yards between the stroke penalty hazards, that should be more than enough room to hit driver.  You need a really clear reason and benefit to back off of driver.  The question that drives strategy when looking at holes is how can I make the easiest par.

Good call. Info at 265ish from the tips: 41yds wide from water right to tree trouble left, 48yds wide from water to cartpath (seen a few balls jump OB), 51yds wide from water to OB

[PracticeSwinger]

5 minutes ago, Santiago Golf said:

My driver is 260 carry club, my 4 wood is about 240 carry club.

 

I would probably aim a little right of the pot bunker and either bunt driver or full 4 wood depending on the wind

 

So the, taking water out of play but risking ending up in the fairway bunker option, right?

[getitdaily]

9 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

No it’s not : huge old tree that was removed (thank god as the visual off the tee wasn’t that fun back then) - converted to a little patch of rough; not that penal

In that case I'm playing the hole 1 of 2 ways. 

 

If a shot that will run out to 300 could get into the left trees on the line you have on your first pic then I'm playing a low running draw 3w. On normal conditions I can get that shot out to 270 after about 230 carry. That takes left out of play and if I leave it just a bit right then I'm in the bunker, which is ok.

 

If driver to 300 leaves me in the fairway on that line you drew then I'm hitting driver.

[Santiago Golf]

12 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

So the, taking water out of play but risking ending up in the fairway bunker option, right?

 

Yeah, probably would aim at old tree stump and both shots typically are a tight draw. The fairway bunker doesn't bother me that much if I end up in it. still a good chance at par

 

[Primo1868]

Looks like a tough hole and a good finisher. 

I'm in the camp that you should play it as option 1 most of the time. 38 yd fairway and 51 yds from water to OB is a reasonable width to hit driver especially when hitting it well. I think, based on how hard the second shot looks from 190+, I take my odds of hitting a good drive over my odds of hitting a good 4 iron into the green. If driver swing is loose that day, I would take option 3 and play it as a par 5 if need be. I would never take option 2.

 

If I'm playing that hole (hitting driver, carrying ~285 with a fade) I'd take driver all day off of the stump line. Over fading one into the water still leaves a decent look at bogey; one straight goes into the trees leaves a decent look at bogey. The biggest chance for a big number in my game would be to dump it into that fairway bunker with a med to long iron into green.  All this is coming from a shaky 8 handicap with ~40-60% GIR <150yds and <15% GIR from 190+.

[SNIPERBBB]

Fade with the driver is the play for me. Ill take my chances with the big fairway bunker than risking left. Doesnt even look like you can try to hit a draw with the trees on the right if you want to try to aim at the bunker and bring it back to the fairway? That would be my next option if you have the high push draw in the bag..

 

Really looks like a shot you just need to step up and hit it because your screwed on any miss so you may as well blast it. Or really go chicken and play it as a par 5 and lay up short of the bunker then try to hit your second shot into the left bunkers by the green

[PracticeSwinger]

28 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

In that case I'm playing the hole 1 of 2 ways. 

 

If a shot that will run out to 300 could get into the left trees on the line you have on your first pic then I'm playing a low running draw 3w. On normal conditions I can get that shot out to 270 after about 230 carry. That takes left out of play and if I leave it just a bit right then I'm in the bunker, which is ok.

 

If driver to 300 leaves me in the fairway on that line you drew then I'm hitting driver.

Good info. Shot on the first line drawn gets into the rough/trees on the left at 290ish - didn't get it there from the tips but more than once when playing up a tee; definitely a tight 'window' as it gets there in a hurry when the course is firm

[st1800e]

Only hit driver 210, so either lay up or if I got a better than average drive and im striking it well, try and thread a wood to fairway short of the green 

[PracticeSwinger]

7 minutes ago, SNIPERBBB said:

Fade with the driver is the play for me. Ill take my chances with the big fairway bunker than risking left. Doesnt even look like you can try to hit a draw with the trees on the right if you want to try to aim at the bunker and bring it back to the fairway? That would be my next option if you have the high push draw in the bag..

 

Really looks like a shot you just need to step up and hit it because your screwed on any miss so you may as well blast it. Or really go chicken and play it as a par 5 and lay up short of the bunker then try to hit your second shot into the left bunkers by the green

Good call. I never take the Par5-ish approach, I'm going at it (stock shot is a 260ish fade). Never thought the tree removal would change the 'look of it' that much - was a visual trick before that, with those trees on the right and that huge tree 'blocking' half the fairway or so it seems from the tee

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, st1800e said:

Only hit driver 210, so either lay up or if I got a better than average drive and im striking it well, try and thread a wood to fairway short of the green 

With 210 as your driver club - let's suppose you play it from the 390ish tee markers... brings the same decision / options into play

[SNIPERBBB]

4 minutes ago, Varry_Hardon said:

Good call. I never take the Par5-ish approach, I'm going at it (stock shot is a 260ish fade). Never thought the tree removal would change the 'look of it' that much - was a visual trick before that, with those trees on the right and that huge tree 'blocking' half the fairway or so it seems from the tee

Its amazing what the loss of ONE tree can do to a hole. We've lost a bunch at our course due to old age and its really opened up the holes.

[Chunkitgood]

A while ago I posted a modest proposal that only scratch golfer should be allowed to play the back tees.

 

This post is a better argument for that suggestion than I was able to muster.

[PracticeSwinger]

4 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

A while ago I posted a modest proposal that only scratch golfer should be allowed to play the back tees.

 

This post is a better argument for that suggestion than I was able to muster.

Damn, I'm I allowed to go at it from the 410 markers or only the 390 yet?

[SNIPERBBB]

8 minutes ago, Chunkitgood said:

A while ago I posted a modest proposal that only scratch golfer should be allowed to play the back tees.

 

This post is a better argument for that suggestion than I was able to muster.

darn ill just have to turn my 2nd place at the club championship back it because techincally im a 2.7 and we played the tips.

[slytown]

When there is trouble around, I always aim for the widest part of the fairway, closest to the green as possible as a baseline strategy. I would go with option 1. Laying up makes the approach too difficult. You should never plan to hit 200 yard shots into greens because they probably won't hold.

 

Yes, it still might be difficult to hit the drive, but you gotta think about the higher percentage you gain of hitting the green from there and the higher percentage of hitting the fairway. if you are stuck in the bunker 180 yards away or are stuck in the rough 200 yards away, you aren't hitting that green.

[Ri_Redneck]

This hole plays to my strengths. I hit my stock driver cut at the old stump. If I hit it reasonably well, I'm dry and a short iron out. If I over cook it and get wet, I will drop two and hit three with a short iron. If it doesn't cut and I trickle into the trees, I bump one out just short of the green and "pitch & putt". Bogey worst case.

 

Laying back is not an option because of the long iron in that can bring multiple bad scenarios. I've pared many holes like that after my drive dribbled into the water.

 

BT

[TLUBulldogGolf]

Driving iron between the traps (240 carry club). I'd ideally not like something that can carry to the water. If the ball is running driver and even 3 wood would seem to run out of room in a hurry. If the fairways are soft I would consider 3 wood on a similar line to the first image. 

[MountainKing]

40 yards is huge, even with a snap hook I'd still be in play.  Play to that part of the fairway every time.

[PracticeSwinger]

Looks like we have a consensus - Driver to the 40yds wide spot between trees/OB and water to get it at 150ish, tree removal really opened things up... Thanks WRXers!