Will Wilson Golf ever rise to relevance again?

[Binson]

It needs to go ultra-premium, low quantity like PXG (and Tesla) did when they first started. Then they can use those halo products to sell their cheaper line-ups at scale. 

 

Having a price lower than your competitors for your premium line-up in the golf industry is not necessarily a good thing. People perceive that as lower quality and if they're already spending 1k on a brand new Driver, they don't really care about 100-200 bucks as long as it is the best performing product for them.  The media would give it a lot of free press as a talking point. And, being pricier actually makes it feel better for that demographic. When they show up with the new 1.2k Wilson Staff Dynapower Gooseneck FG Tour Driver, their buddies being like "whoa, that's an expensive driver" fuels them. 

 

Then, the general public will feel like Wilson Tech is valid and being filtered down to lower prices options (like the 0211 or Model 3) as good value products.

 

 

[Doaner84]

They need to sponsor really good youtube golfers and young juniors that will rise up the ranks.  In turn this will bring younger kids in and when they get used to the brand they will grow into adults that are used to playing the wilson brand.  That's the only way.  To tell me now that I should buy a wilson  when i've been playing titleist since high school is not going to happen.  I might try it and hit a few irons or woods but i'd never commit. 

[Steve o]

On 10/13/2023 at 11:44 AM, SwooshLT said:

 

Don't forget, Mizuno has a completely different market that it can rely upon.....And Wilson isn't as GLOBAL as Mizuno 

Wilson has done well in Europe and Australia. Not sure of other areas. 

[Maine Golfer]

I dig the old stuff. Would jump on a demo day's if they did one. I hear great things about the blades they sell and the wedges. 

[bluedot]

3 hours ago, Binson said:

It needs to go ultra-premium, low quantity like PXG (and Tesla) did when they first started. Then they can use those halo products to sell their cheaper line-ups at scale. 

 

Having a price lower than your competitors for your premium line-up in the golf industry is not necessarily a good thing. People perceive that as lower quality and if they're already spending 1k on a brand new Driver, they don't really care about 100-200 bucks as long as it is the best performing product for them.  The media would give it a lot of free press as a talking point. And, being pricier actually makes it feel better for that demographic. When they show up with the new 1.2k Wilson Staff Dynapower Gooseneck FG Tour Driver, their buddies being like "whoa, that's an expensive driver" fuels them. 

 

Then, the general public will feel like Wilson Tech is valid and being filtered down to lower prices options (like the 0211 or Model 3) as good value products.

 

 

Tesla and PXG were both brand new companies; Tesla was, and remains, the industry standard for EVs.  And I think you could make the argument that the ultra premium strategy didn’t really work out for PXG; they’ve changed their price structure pretty dramatically.  In both cases, these two companies are ONLY in the one specific business.

 

Wilson Sporting Goods, on the other hand, has been around for over 100 years, and owns brands like Louisville Slugger and Demarini, in addition to producing hard goods for multiple sports.  I don’t know what percentage golf represents of Wilson’s total business, but I’d suspect it’s rather a small part of the total picture.  
 

There is NO guarantee that ANY effort to change the golf market share would work, only that it would cost a lot.  I’m guessing that Wilson knows its business quite well, including the golf part.  Good companies seek to maintain profitability, and throwing money at the golf market might not do that.

[dubbelbogey]

Assuming "relevant" here means among the top 5 brands in sales. (Or pick your favorite number, 5 is arbitrary but serves the purpose.) I'm not talking about "prestige" alone, as sales must be accounted for.

 

This is a tough proposition. Making it back to the top once out is rarely done in most markets, and especially in sporting goods where your brand has gone down-market. I'm trying to think of a brand that's made it back to the top and I can't think of one off the top of my head. I'm sure an example or two exist, but it's not coming to mind at the moment.

 

Wilson themselves must know this issue very intimately. They're still among the tops in tennis and baseball gloves, but have never really ceded those spots.

 

As others have pointed out, it seems the only way to make it to that position is to either 1) be there already and stay there or 2) be a new company willing to spend/risk the huge investment to break into that ground. PXG is sort of flirting with that latter model, but is nowhere near top-5. It'd be interesting to see what sort of profitability (or not) PXG has, but the feel is that it's not particularly self-sustaining. (Not that we'll likely ever know, being privately held and all that...)

 

 

 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

On 10/12/2023 at 2:16 PM, wam78 said:

Agreed about marketing.  It’s a big boy game when it comes to branding and marketing this day and age.  However, they are doing the right things and are on the right path with equipment.  Their irons and woods are making improvements.  The new putter line is pretty fantastic, but you barely seem them anywhere… ever.

 

It would be nice to see them make a real run at it because the products speaks for themselves.  High quality forgings, improved design on woods and golf balls.  One or 2 big names on tour would do them some good.  Gary Woodland was great for them, but only for a short time.

 

They seem to be more popular in EU currently.

This is a large part of it.  And these numbers are from last year and not exact but pretty damn close.

 

Titleist, Callaway, PING and Taylormade account for almost 85% of equipment sales. 

 

That leaves 15% for  Wilson, Mizuno, Cobra, Srixon, PXG and other DTC brands to fight over.   So each of those is getting somewhere between 2 to 4 percent market share. maybe one has jumped up to 5%.   Even Wilson tripled their current marketing/Ad Spin they would not get out of that group, really no of those company would.   So they are likely content to sit where they are which unfortunately is a minor part of Wilson Sporting goods. 

 

[rainkingjr]

They just need to bring these commercials back.

 

 

[kiwigolf72]

Unless Wilson is going to spend big on marketing then apart from the die-hard players who know about the brand then they will struggle to increase awareness.

Titleist has flooded the market with equipment and basically as soon as you turn pro you can pick up a contract with them for free gear, this has meant that when people watch golf all they see is Titleist and then the impression of Titleist clubs becomes that they are the best.

Titleist even pays the TV broadcasters to advertise who are Titleist players on the leaderboards, once again reinforcing that they are the best company.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at Titleist but for other manufacturers to be taken seriously they would have to up their advertising and brand awareness.

Unfortunately for Wilson IMO I don't actually think that would work because the impression of cheaper, poorer quality, limited research and development golf gear is probably already ingrained.

Which is good for players who already like and play Wilson gear as it keeps the price down.

Edited October 18, 2023 by kiwigolf72
mistake

[Carolina Golfer 2]

2 hours ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Unless Wilson is going to spend big on marketing then apart from the die-hard players who know about the brand then they will struggle to increase awareness.

Titleist has flooded the market with equipment and basically as soon as you turn pro you can pick up a contract with them for free gear, this has meant that when people watch golf all they see is Titleist and then the impression of Titleist clubs becomes that they are the best.

Titleist even pays the TV broadcasters to advertise who are Titleist players on the leaderboards, once again reinforcing that they are the best company.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at Titleist but for other manufacturers to be taken seriously they would have to up their advertising and brand awareness.

Unfortunately for Wilson IMO I don't actually think that would work because the impression of cheaper, poorer quality, limited research and development golf gear is probably already ingrained.

Which is good for players who already like and play Wilson gear as it keeps the price down.

Titleist does not pay announcers.  They sponsor some leaderboard spots. But no different Callaway sponsoring the long drive grid on certain holes. 
 

It’s all part of the marketing I and others mentioned above.   

[kiwigolf72]

3 minutes ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

Titleist does not pay announcers.  They sponsor some leaderboard spots. But no different Callaway sponsoring the long drive grid on certain holes. 
 

It’s all part of the marketing I and others mentioned above.   

Great that you mentioned it, I'll check what you have posted before I make any more comments I also never mentioned anything about commentators 

Edited October 19, 2023 by kiwigolf72
Added

[Carolina Golfer 2]

2 minutes ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Great that you mentioned it, I'll check what you have posted before I make any more comments I also never mentioned anything about commentators 

You literally said Titleist pays TV broadcasters.  

Edited October 19, 2023 by Carolina Golfer 2

[kiwigolf72]

1 minute ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

You literally said Titleist pays TV broadcasters.  

Yup the company who own the rights to broadcast. Not the commentators. How do you think they get the Titleist badge of honour on the leaderboard 

[Carolina Golfer 2]

8 hours ago, kiwigolf72 said:

Yup the company who own the rights to broadcast. Not the commentators. How do you think they get the Titleist badge of honour on the leaderboard 

Good grief.  But you literally are repeating what I said.  And it’s networks not broadcasters that are talking about sponsoring the leaderboard. 
 

Broadcasters speak or read from scripted materials, such as news reports or commercial messages, on radio, television, or other communications media. May play and queue music, announce artist or title of performance, identify station, or interview guests.

Edited October 19, 2023 by Carolina Golfer 2

[Steve o]

18 hours ago, bluedot said:

Tesla and PXG were both brand new companies; Tesla was, and remains, the industry standard for EVs.  And I think you could make the argument that the ultra premium strategy didn’t really work out for PXG; they’ve changed their price structure pretty dramatically.  In both cases, these two companies are ONLY in the one specific business.

 

Wilson Sporting Goods, on the other hand, has been around for over 100 years, and owns brands like Louisville Slugger and Demarini, in addition to producing hard goods for multiple sports.  I don’t know what percentage golf represents of Wilson’s total business, but I’d suspect it’s rather a small part of the total picture.  
 

There is NO guarantee that ANY effort to change the golf market share would work, only that it would cost a lot.  I’m guessing that Wilson knows its business quite well, including the golf part.  Good companies seek to maintain profitability, and throwing money at the golf market might not do that.

I agree that Wilson and the parent company have been satisified to maintain a certain level of profitability. Still, I wonder why they bother with low unit sales on blades and top end irons. Margins must be crazy good. They do throw money at golf. I guess those of us who love the brand wish they could throw more to take it where we think it could go. 

[grm24]

11 hours ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

Titleist does not pay announcers.  

You think Jim Nantz does those Titleist commercials for free?

[Steve o]

12 minutes ago, grm24 said:

You think Jim Nantz does those Titleist commercials for free?

I think we are confusing a commercial which Nantz gets paid for and leaderboards, shot trackers and all the other in round features which are sponsored and paid for by advertisers during a golf broadcast. 

[Maine Golfer]

The whole premise of this question is silly. Unless you work for Wilson, I doubt you know if they are gonna spend more money going after more pro's.  If you like Wilson Staff, PXG , small time hand made wedges, play them. The idea those or other brands will outsell the big boys in 2025 is silly, its unlikely!  

[Binson]

21 hours ago, bluedot said:

Tesla and PXG were both brand new companies; Tesla was, and remains, the industry standard for EVs.  And I think you could make the argument that the ultra premium strategy didn’t really work out for PXG; they’ve changed their price structure pretty dramatically.  In both cases, these two companies are ONLY in the one specific business.

 

Wilson Sporting Goods, on the other hand, has been around for over 100 years, and owns brands like Louisville Slugger and Demarini, in addition to producing hard goods for multiple sports.  I don’t know what percentage golf represents of Wilson’s total business, but I’d suspect it’s rather a small part of the total picture.  
 

There is NO guarantee that ANY effort to change the golf market share would work, only that it would cost a lot.  I’m guessing that Wilson knows its business quite well, including the golf part.  Good companies seek to maintain profitability, and throwing money at the golf market might not do that.

 

I disagree that the ultra premium, low quantity strategy didn't work out for PXG. It is because of that strategy that they have the market perception that allows them to scale to a more value oriented product without being viewed as "less-than".  So, it's possible it wasn't but I would argue that it's part of the plan - similar to Tesla.

 

I also disagree that Wilson knows its business quite well from a golf perspective, given how they squandered such a massive lead and have yet to regain any semblance of that previous market share or perception in terms of quality. 

 

I also didn't suggest throwing money at the golf market. Actually, the model I'm recommending would likely shrink their overall footprint in favor of high-margin, high quality, low quantity products.  This would change market perception over time, allow them to remain profitable, and enable sales through improved market perception when they reach a point where they can scale to higher volume, value-oriented products again to capture market share.  

 

It is a 180, but given how their product is perceived here (at least in North America) despite its good quality, I think it's something they should entertain if they want to actually shake up the status quo.  With Golf being a relatively small part of their overall portfolio, it makes even more sense for it to behave more like a startup. The "Staff" brand should have elevated standing. 

 

I also think Ben Hogan Company is going down the wrong path competing in the value-oriented DTC business and would benefit from a similar strategy change in its latest revival.

[kiwigolf72]

5 hours ago, Carolina Golfer 2 said:

Good grief.  But you literally are repeating what I said.  And it’s networks not broadcasters that are talking about sponsoring the leaderboard. 
 

Broadcasters speak or read from scripted materials, such as news reports or commercial messages, on radio, television, or other communications media. May play and queue music, announce artist or title of performance, identify station, or interview guests.

What's your issue? Open your mind, we don't live in the same part of the world so maybe things are called different things, get over it.

[RacineBoxer]

They need a handful of top pros and they could easily get back, especially if they somehow had the #1 guy. Most people, even the true golf nuts here, mostly buy based on brand allegiances/preferences. The equipment really isn't that different. 

[kiwigolf72]

Sorry didn't mean to confuse anyone with my poor America English.

My point was that to somehow gain a bigger piece of the golf marketplace, Wilson would have to increase their brand presence and because other companies already have a pretty good marketing plan they would need to come up with something special to compete.

Homna tried to  use J Rose to get a presence outside of Japan, in the end it didn't work and because it was just 1 player it looked like a money grab from him and didn't really help the brand.

[kiwigolf72]

Don't want to take this off topic, but could someone tell me about PXG, in my part of the world the impression is it's extremely overpriced equipment, is this now not the case ?

[Carolina Golfer 2]

5 hours ago, grm24 said:

You think Jim Nantz does those Titleist commercials for free?

commericals and announcing a tour event are different matters.   You will never here him or any other annouceer say,  "JT really smoked that Ttitlest TSR3 driver on that drive"  matter of fact have been told that they actually go out of their way not to mention any club or ball brands as a routine part of the telecast.  Unlike NASCAAR where you here it all the time. 

5 hours ago, Steve o said:

I think we are confusing a commercial which Nantz gets paid for and leaderboards, shot trackers and all the other in round features which are sponsored and paid for by advertisers during a golf broadcast. 

Yes, exactly this!

[scruffynick]

They make some great irons always have, unfortunately most golfers are snobs. Like the fact they're alot cheaper but their products are as good as anything out there. Wilson blades are legendary and the new ones are still stunning irons....that's pretty much it

[Pnwpingi210]

They will not until they upgrade their fitting carts.  S300 was the firmest shaft in available at two different places that have Wilson fitting carts near me.  Nothing over length unless you wanted a flex 95 gram graphite.

 

 

[Straphael]

That’s pretty much the big issue. Until Wilson can get products in hands they’re going to struggle no matter who they sponsor or market with. I live near some really big fitters including a top 100 in the USA fitter and nobody has a single Wilson product in house. They can order them but why would I go with something that I can’t even see

[bluedot]

1 hour ago, scruffynick said:

They make some great irons always have, unfortunately most golfers are snobs. Like the fact they're alot cheaper but their products are as good as anything out there. Wilson blades are legendary and the new ones are still stunning irons....that's pretty much it

It’s not being a snob if Wilson irons aren’t available for fittings.  I have 4 brands in my bag; I’d use ANYTHING that would help me get the ball in the hole more quickly.  But I’ve never even seen a Wilson fitting cart, or heard of a Wilson fitting day.  I could order Wilson clubs off the Golf Galaxy website, but they aren’t an in stock item.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

1 hour ago, bluedot said:

It’s not being a snob if Wilson irons aren’t available for fittings.  I have 4 brands in my bag; I’d use ANYTHING that would help me get the ball in the hole more quickly.  But I’ve never even seen a Wilson fitting cart, or heard of a Wilson fitting day.  I could order Wilson clubs off the Golf Galaxy website, but they aren’t an in stock item.

We’re fortunate to have a great rep (Maryland) he came out 3 times this season.  We don’t have a full cart but we have a Dynapower demo iron set and each driver. 

[Steve o]

6 hours ago, RacineBoxer said:

They need a handful of top pros and they could easily get back, especially if they somehow had the #1 guy. Most people, even the true golf nuts here, mostly buy based on brand allegiances/preferences. The equipment really isn't that different. 

They never have shy'ed away from getting the top pro's in other sports. Look at the list of tennis players over the decades. Baseball as well. I love Streels and Kiz  but even they know nobody is buying a driver off their numbers.