Must you have trail hand pushing force in order to have an extended trail wrist at impact?

[Jbarretta]

I am a lead hand dominant golfer and don't put much thought into the trail hand.   Yesterday I stumbled upon pre shot routine where i brushed the grass and applied a pushing force on the aft side of the handle with the trail hand.  I noticed it helped move the swing bottom forward.  I tried to keep that feel during my swing and I hit some very compressed golf shots especially with the 3 wood.

 

I've used the hack motion and my lead wrist is always slightly bowed at impact but I'm wondering if the pushing force with the trail hand helped keep the trail wrist extended through impact.  Did I stumble upon TGM pressure points?  

[iacas]

[Jbarretta]

I look for rabbit holes I can't help it.  If there are any lead arm dominant golfers out there I'm curious to here thoughts on trail hand feels through impact.  Content along the lines of how jim hardy for his lop release recommends a bowling move with the trail hand 

[iacas]

Feels are going to vary by the individual, their history, their swing… and ten other things.

[getitdaily]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Feels are going to vary by the individual, their history, their swing… and ten other things.

And how much you push the clubface into your baseboards.

[wagolfer7]

Pretty much every golfer after discovering YT golf tip videos.  

 

[Nard_S]

 The only "push force" I've identified is external release of trail shoulder. One that throws full extension of arms and wrist down target line.

[Jbarretta]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1mO0_kOB9W/?igsh=aDB6ZWdqMzlhYXZq

 

From today Manzallea shows a trail hand push to square the clubface    can skip to 4:30 mark until 6 min

[virtuoso]

1 hour ago, Jbarretta said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1mO0_kOB9W/?igsh=aDB6ZWdqMzlhYXZq

 

From today Manzallea shows a trail hand push to square the clubface    can skip to 4:30 mark until 6 min

Yeah, I like when Bmanz does his superimposiums. You are managing the handle, but primarily in the sense that you are lining up the entire club for impact. This is why even good players have trouble getting good ball numbers on 3 woods off the deck. To fly that shot right, you have to deliver a very neutral club, in low point, shaft vertical-ness, AOA and path. Thinking about delivering the entire club is more useful than independent handle thoughts or head thoughts.

[DShepley]

16 hours ago, getitdaily said:

And how much you push the clubface into your baseboards.

Or if you are wearing a skeleton body suit...

[getitdaily]

1 hour ago, Jbarretta said:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1mO0_kOB9W/?igsh=aDB6ZWdqMzlhYXZq

 

From today Manzallea shows a trail hand push to square the clubface    can skip to 4:30 mark until 6 min

I think you're misinterpreting what manzella is saying in that video. He's not saying there's a trail hand push. He's saying the hands and arms and body are all squaring the face. The primary takeaway is that the handle moves down and left (for a righty) from p6 to impact. He specifically said a pushing motion to square the face is detrimental. 

[Golfbeat]

2 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I think you're misinterpreting what manzella is saying in that video. He's not saying there's a trail hand push. He's saying the hands and arms and body are all squaring the face. The primary takeaway is that the handle moves down and left (for a righty) from p6 to impact. He specifically said a pushing motion to square the face is detrimental. 

 

Well, well, well. Up until now, I always thought that at P6 the hands were at their lowest and would go up and left. I am pretty sure that this is what most teachers teach.

[getitdaily]

Just now, Golfbeat said:

 

Well, well, well. Up until now, I always thought that at P6 the hands were at their lowest and would go up and left. I am pretty sure that this is what most teachers teach.

Yeah, that still he shows of the center point of the hands being lower at impact than at p6 may have been a light bulb moments for me. 

 

Explains a couple things I've been struggling with as I try to get the downshift and lead shoulder pulling up and back...2 thoughts that are counter to each other at full speed.

[Golfbeat]

1 minute ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, that still he shows of the center point of the hands being lower at impact than at p6 may have been a light bulb moments for me. 

 

Explains a couple things I've been struggling with as I try to get the downshift and lead shoulder pulling up and back...2 thoughts that are counter to each other at full speed.

 

I am just wondering how the "data" of the lowest hands at P6 are suddenly wrong? Those were also gears data.

[getitdaily]

2 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

I am just wondering how the "data" of the lowest hands at P6 are suddenly wrong? Those were also gears data.

I wonder what that other data is tied to...the trail hand has to be lower at impact but the lead hand certainly could be slightly higher. 

[Golfbeat]

9 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

Yeah, that still he shows of the center point of the hands being lower at impact than at p6 may have been a light bulb moments for me. 

 

Explains a couple things I've been struggling with as I try to get the downshift and lead shoulder pulling up and back...2 thoughts that are counter to each other at full speed.

 

Just remember that when the handle goes up the club head still goes down.

Edited January 3 by Golfbeat

[virtuoso]

8 minutes ago, Golfbeat said:

 

Just remember that when the handle goes up the club head still goes down.

Agreed, for that swing, but his main point was that, in 2D, you could be tricked into only seeing the “down” of the mid point, and miss the “inward” of the mid point, and the inward movement is more instructive of your actual kinetics.

[Simpsonia]

41 minutes ago, getitdaily said:

I think you're misinterpreting what manzella is saying in that video. He's not saying there's a trail hand push. He's saying the hands and arms and body are all squaring the face. The primary takeaway is that the handle moves down and left (for a righty) from p6 to impact. He specifically said a pushing motion to square the face is detrimental. 

 

It's a feel thing. Different feels for different people. The fact is the arms extend away from the body from p6 to impact. Some people feel this as extending with their trail arm, others feel it as raising (relative to their torso) their left arm. This is one of the main concepts in Tyler Ferrell's wipe component of the release through impact as he has measured over the years in 3D with AMM. 

[Brian Manzella]

You can push on the back of the shaft with your lead arm/hand—easily.

 

[Jbarretta]

1 hour ago, Brian Manzella said:

You can push on the back of the shaft with your lead arm/hand—easily.

 

Please share more about this

[polski]

So in the uncorrected picture the mid point of the hands is moving in and down. But when corrected for the chest movement the hands would move up? 

 

 

[Brian Manzella]

 

[Zitlow]

Thanks @Brian Manzella. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think the TGM term is "line of compression" when the left shoulder, left arm, FLW and shaft line up at impact. The back of the shaft is pressured like @Righty to Lefty demonstrated.

 

 

 

Edited January 5 by Zitlow

[PNWGuy]

In answer to OP's original question...

 

It depends on whether you Throw or Twist.

 

There is a thread that answers your question in simple terms.

 

Edited January 5 by PNWGuy

[Righty to Lefty]

On 1/2/2024 at 10:27 AM, Jbarretta said:

I am a lead hand dominant golfer and don't put much thought into the trail hand.   Yesterday I stumbled upon pre shot routine where i brushed the grass and applied a pushing force on the aft side of the handle with the trail hand.  I noticed it helped move the swing bottom forward.  I tried to keep that feel during my swing and I hit some very compressed golf shots especially with the 3 wood.

 

I've used the hack motion and my lead wrist is always slightly bowed at impact but I'm wondering if the pushing force with the trail hand helped keep the trail wrist extended through impact.  Did I stumble upon TGM pressure points?  

You just stumbled onto what is called lag tension and it will serve you well even though you are lead arm dominant.  I play both right and left handed so I have experienced this to the extreme.  I am lead arm dominant when I play right handed and my swing feels more like throwing a Frisbee with straight arm because my trail arm can't inject as much force. My highest driver swing speed was about 105 mph.  Left handed trail arm is dominant and my swing feels more like I am throwing a punch because of all the pressure that I put on the back of the shaft.  My swing speed has been as high as 129 mph.  

 

What you have discovered is very real and you can train in your physical fitness regimen by adding more pushing movements and you will gain leverage in time now that you are aware of it because the hands are actually working against each other during the swing to create stability.  I will add some videos that will hopefully help better understand the concept and if you have any questions don't hesitate to reach out.  

 

This is a video that I made a few days ago that goes over the concept even though the topic is wrist angles: 

 

Lag Tension Explanation: 

 

[Jbarretta]

2 hours ago, Righty to Lefty said:

You just stumbled onto what is called lag tension and it will serve you well even though you are lead arm dominant.  I play both right and left handed so I have experienced this to the extreme.  I am lead arm dominant when I play right handed and my swing feels more like throwing a Frisbee with straight arm because my trail arm can't inject as much force. My highest driver swing speed was about 105 mph.  Left handed trail arm is dominant and my swing feels more like I am throwing a punch because of all the pressure that I put on the back of the shaft.  My swing speed has been as high as 129 mph.  

 

What you have discovered is very real and you can train in your physical fitness regimen by adding more pushing movements and you will gain leverage in time now that you are aware of it because the hands are actually working against each other during the swing to create stability.  I will add some videos that will hopefully help better understand the concept and if you have any questions don't hesitate to reach out.  

 

This is a video that I made a few days ago that goes over the concept even though the topic is wrist angles: 

 

Lag Tension Explanation: 

 

Thank you for this post.  I am starting to read about lag pressure I think my body motion is 2nd nature enough where my sole focus in the swing should be the impact area 

[Righty to Lefty]

Absolutely and that will suit you well in the long run to trust your swing motion and then keep working yourself around the ball until and observing the results.  I say that because your position in relation to the ball will likely need adjusting as you fatigue during a given round of golf and if you don't catch it then the round will go off the rails. 

 

You should always know what to expect from a given shot in your pre shot routine and the moment that it doesn't  come off the way you expected you have to make an adjustment immediately.  I monitor my low point on EVERY shot that I hit and notice that as I fatigue I have to move my low point further in front of the ball to regain leverage.  That same adjustment at the beginning of a round would have been a fade, but late in the round it is required to simply maintain strike and leverage.  

 

This is a video I made for a buddy about setting and becoming aware of the low point of the swing arc that I believe will help you:

 

 

This was the most important factor that I learned when I switched from playing "Righty to Lefty" because your orientation in relation to the ball is golf and if you can command your low point, you will play your best golf.  Let me know if you have any other questions as I hope you will go out and test and come back with your findings.  R to L

[iacas]

33 minutes ago, Jbarretta said:

I am starting to read about lag pressure

 

I recommend you save yourself the time and spend it on some things that will actually help you play better golf.

[Righty to Lefty]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

 

I recommend you save yourself the time and spend it on some things that will actually help you play better golf.

Yeah...and you provided it in your eloquent response. Thank you so much.

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, Righty to Lefty said:

Yeah...and you provided it in your eloquent response. Thank you so much.

 

I haven't seen his swing, so I have no clue what it might be. Sometimes, knowing what not to spend time on is just as valuable.