Wedges for Chipping off Tight Lies

[2Down]

You may not wonder much longer how the putter became known as the Texas wedge.  

 

I get to play in Georgia every once in a while. Bermuda things I’ve learned;

bump and run rarely works

Down hill with the grain is wow fast

up hill into the grain is wow slow 

 

you will get used to it and then wonder how to putt on bent when you travel.  
 

[North Butte]

35 minutes ago, cjblake09 said:

The problem for me at least in north Texas is what grass we have is still mostly dormant and and you are chipping off basically just mud.  So you need to pick it clean or just putt it.  

When the going gets tough, the tough get their putter 🤣

[Brooks_Cupcake]

17 hours ago, Kale_m said:

That’s fine. Read up on what lots of club fitters do, well documented how flatter wedges are preferred by many players. 
 

try it , you might be pleasantly surprised 

Don’t disagree, but not in the 4* range. Almost always 1*-2* based off their irons, if you factor in what normally would be considered 0.5* progressions.

[cgasucks]

For me, during the pandemic lockdown my short game really dropped like a rock by practicing off hardpan at the short game area at my local driving range since it wasn't maintained at the time.  With a firm grip I simply released the angle of my right wrist (or left if you're left handed) and you'll approach the ball at a shallow angle hitting the ball first and then the hardpan and hold the finish.  My chips are crisp and clean putting a lot of spin on the ball.  

 

This method will also work on even the best of lies and best of all, no special wedge is needed regardless of bounce or grind angle.  I practice this technique myself with my stock PW and sometimes a 9 iron if I feel adventurous.

[ChaosTheory]

1 hour ago, cjblake09 said:

The problem for me at least in north Texas is what grass we have is still mostly dormant and and you are chipping off basically just mud.  So you need to pick it clean or just putt it.  

 

The Horschel method is almost picking it clean.  I have used it off of mud the past two rounds and I love it.  There is some margin for error.  Meaning, you could inadvertently pick it clean, or you could be slightly deep, and still get away with it because the toe doesn't catch anywhere near as much mud.  It's not a handsy swing.  More like a Steve Stricker or Jason Day. 

 

My next step is to try opening the face for some extra height.  I've done it on the practice area but haven't needed it on the course yet.  I used to like to play open faced shots with bounce.  The open face with toe down just looks like it shouldn't work, and I haven't quite accepted it yet.

 

Sometime before next winter I'm going to customize a 60 degree wedge for this.  Bending it to 62-63, and grinding some leading edge relief, especially on the toe half.   I want some extra loft because the way I'm doing it, I am delofting by several degrees.

[Pepperturbo]

19 hours ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

it’s standard on tour builds to go 1* flat off the player’s standard for irons. Meaning if you have a 63* 9 iron your PW should start at 62* and so on.

Interesting.  

 

Years back my builder worked for as a tour club builder for Titleist.  I've never heard that.  I know some tour guys that have custom setups but never it stated that broad.

 

What's the theory behind it???

[Brooks_Cupcake]

4 minutes ago, Pepperturbo said:

Interesting.  

 

Years back my builder worked for as a tour club builder for Titleist.  I've never heard that.  I know some tour guys that have custom setups but never it stated that broad.

 

What's the theory behind it???

My guess is that:

1. The ball won’t go left on mid to full shots

2. flatter toe means more spin generally speaking as the ball implicitly would have more left to right spin

3. Easier to not have to raise the handle to get the toe down on tighter lies

 

Just my best guess 

[North Butte]

2 hours ago, 2Down said:

You may not wonder much longer how the putter became known as the Texas wedge.  

 

I get to play in Georgia every once in a while. Bermuda things I’ve learned;

bump and run rarely works

Down hill with the grain is wow fast

up hill into the grain is wow slow 

 

you will get used to it and then wonder how to putt on bent when you travel.  
 

I'd been playing golf maybe 5 or 6 years before I ever traveled from Down South in the land of Bermuda greens to Up North. I asked my teaching pro what I needed to know to putt on Bent grass greens.

 

He smiled and said, "Just forget about everything except which way is uphill and which is downhill. You'll be amazed how easy it is". He was right.

[North Butte]

31 minutes ago, Brooks_Cupcake said:

My guess is that:

1. The ball won’t go left on mid to full shots

2. flatter toe means more spin generally speaking as the ball implicitly would have more left to right spin

3. Easier to not have to raise the handle to get the toe down on tighter lies

 

Just my best guess 

When I was a beginner, my teaching pro suggesting bending my wedges 2 degrees flat. The only thing he mentioned to me at the time was it avoids the heel ever digging in if you get a little steep.

 

He explanation was on wedge shots, with the sole shape you're going to end up fine if the toe slightly drags on the ground before impact. Probably miss a little short or a little left. But if the heel digs in, it's long and left and look out!

[Kale_m]

I have my rtx6 58 bent 2 degrees weak and 4 flat 

 

I also have a Vokey wedgeworks v grind 60° bent 3°

 

Played the vokey the last 2 seasons and it will prob get the start in the bag as I have so much confidence with it. 
 

the flat lie angle let’s me hit all kinds of shots and sits so much nicer when you open it up, my bunker play is a lot better with the flatter lie , also much better off tight lies 

[bunta]

21 hours ago, bsb70x7 said:

Go with Vokey SM-10 T grind off of tight lies. The Low Bounce K is also an option.  

 

16 hours ago, Ethan DelGrosso said:

Played a T this past year and loved it but it digs a bit for me. I also play in CT lol so I can’t extrapolate as well to the south. Just picked up a low bounce K and played one round with it and LOVE it. Obviously I do not need that low of bounce in CT but these wedges are both super fun. The K just digs less for me.

 

 

How much higher does the LBK sit than the T when both faces are opened up? I want to try the LBK, but i get nervous when the leading edge sits up too high. Ive been contemplating between these 2 wedges for months now... anything you guys would like to share more on the LBK??

 

Like OP, im trying to achive the same thing.. Chipping off tight lies..

Edited March 23 by bunta

[Ethan DelGrosso]

1 hour ago, bunta said:

 

 

 

How much higher does the LBK sit than the T when both faces are opened up? I want to try the LBK, but i get nervous when the leading edge sits up too high. Ive been contemplating between these 2 wedges for months now... anything you guys would like to share more on the LBK??

 

Like OP, im trying to achive the same thing.. Chipping off tight lies..

The MOST important thing I can say about the T is that it wants to be open and the K wants to be square. If you set it on the ground the T will literally roll open where the K stays square. With both my K and M grind they will smoothly open as you lower the handle whereas the T sits naturally at maybe 25* open and just stays there.

 

I measured the leading edge height off a flat surface with both wedges in 58* and an M in 58*

 

Shaft Vertical: T:6 mm      LBK: 5.7 mm        M: 7.8mm

Face flat pointing directly up:  T: 15.2 mm      LBK: 17.42 mm      M: 17.6mm

 

Theres no denying the T sits super tight to the ground its just about whether that’s necessarily better or not. I personally love the feel of the K as that wide flat sole feels like a massive landing strip that just guides the leading edge to the ball whereas I have to be more precise with the T to prevent digging or catching. So while the T sits lower I can more accurately deliver the K to the low point do the ground guiding it into the ball. I feel much more comfortable “using the bounce”. The M should not be underestimated either as it gives that little extra height on square face but goes almost as low as the LBK when opened. Im gonna put more time in outside with these as the LBK is relatively new and then post something more in depth on different shots soon. At the end of the day they all sit very low when you compare with something that has more bounce. Most of the time if I have anything more than a tight lie I’m hitting a 56 14F and still playing open face but its much softer where I am.

 

 

[chinaski]

I don't play Bermuda often being from the midwest, but chipping with the toe down eliminates much of the club getting caught up in the turf.

[bunta]

3 minutes ago, Ethan DelGrosso said:

 

 

Shaft Vertical: T:6 mm      LBK: 5.7 mm        M: 7.8mm

Face flat pointing directly up:  T: 15.2 mm      LBK: 17.42 mm      M: 17.6mm

 

 

 

You are incredible. Every wedge maker should provide this in the spec sheet. Thank you for that. 

 

[Ethan DelGrosso]

11 minutes ago, bunta said:

 

You are incredible. Every wedge maker should provide this in the spec sheet. Thank you for that. 

 

Haha no worries. I’m trying to compile more data soon since the wedge side of things seems soooooo neglected. Got some wedge shafts coming too so I can get data on those. Forgot to measure my Vokey 64W grind but that’s a story for another day. 

[CDLgolf]

7 hours ago, cjblake09 said:

The problem for me at least in north Texas is what grass we have is still mostly dormant and and you are chipping off basically just mud.  So you need to pick it clean or just putt it.  

 

Same conditions in the carolinas. I use a putter as often as I can.

[Port and Starboard]

I'm around 6' 3" tall. 

 

When I was younger, I used to set my 2-7 irons two degrees upright, and kept the 8-SW pretty much stock. (usually around 64 lie angle wedges)  Now days, I'm 1 degree upright (Blue Dot) with the 4-9 irons and stock lies with all my wedges. (Vokey's are 64 degrees stock)

 

For me, any wedge that is too upright with the ball sitting tight among the bermuda roots, sand, or muddy lies is usually a disaster. (too steep)

 

On the other hand, trying to hit a wedge set at a 62 degree lie angle from 100 yards is usually a toe dig unless I'm squatting or setting my hands at my knee caps.   That is a little too much outside of my skill level & comfort zone.

 

A 64 degree lie angle seems to work best for me with the wedges.

 

I'm a texas wedge guy these days. 

 

I have no problem at all putting the ball from 40 yards.  My home course nothing but hardpan even under the best conditions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 24 by Port and Starboard
info

[Port and Starboard]

On 3/22/2024 at 9:34 PM, bnperrone said:

Another vote for putter.

 

It’s hard to overstate my dislike for Bermuda grass, but 20+ years I moved to coastal SC, so it is what it is. 
 

That said, I feel like if I get a lie where it’s trying to grab it usually helps to just slightly open the face if going to a lower lofted pw or gap or something isn’t an option. 

 

I don't mind bermuda when I play a course where the greenskeeper and owners actually take care of it.  I live in Norfolk/Virginia Beach area and my home course has some of the nastiest bermuda I've ever seen in the USA.   It's about 99% stolon (stalk) and 1% blade.

 

Even under the best fairway conditions, the ball settles down to the hardpan between the stolons, and it gets much worse in actual rough around the greens. I've watched some of the best tournament level players here in the Hampton Roads area area struggle with it.  It's 40% skill and 60% luck how the ball is going to come off the clubface.

 

Whenever I play some of the better maintained courses in my area I have no problems with their Bermuda grass.  I just keep in mind whether grain is into me or away on all my shots.

 

 

 

 

[Zach.buckler23]

I’d say the “M” grind in the vokeys. But I’ve been lucky enough to play tour wedges off the Srixon van(Cleveland’s). It’s a game changer having your wedges and grinds off tight lies.