THE CHEVRON CHAMPIONSHIP THE WOODLANDS, TX (APR 18-21)

[AKL Kiwi]

14 hours ago, Port and Starboard said:

Or you could flip the script by saying the wins by other women during Nellie's absence from her injuries and blood clot were diminished?

 

I don't think so.

True but Nelly was NOT RR#1 while having time away for a blood clot. Lilia Vu was #1 and has been playing through back pain spasms which has caused two WD's recently and prevented her from defending her title here...Yes when we are talking about recent RR#1 it does diminish a win! If you and the media believe a fully fit Vu would still not have won fine 😊.

[18majors]

49 minutes ago, Trippels said:

Does that count as an ended streak?

 

 

There're two type of streaks:

1.    Consecutive starts:  This stays unchanged.
2.    Consecutive scheduled tournaments:  This ends.

[18majors]

 

I feel bad for my friend Walter Wang; he is spending upwards of $7.5 million to sponsor JM Eagle LA Tournament this week but no Nelly, Lydia nor Brooke in the field!

[Argonne69]

45 minutes ago, 18majors said:

 

I feel bad for my friend Walter Wang; he is spending upwards of $7.5 million to sponsor JM Eagle LA Tournament this week but no Nelly, Lydia nor Brooke in the field!

 

Unfortunately any tournament that falls the week before, or the week after a major is going to have issues filling the field with the top ranked players. 

 

[Titleist_PT23]

4 hours ago, Titleist_PT23 said:

Nelly has six points so far this year.  Right now, she's also leading the Vare and the Player of the Year races.  She's likely to get another point even if she doesn't win again this year.  For comparison, Lydia got seven points in 2015 and JYK got 8 points in 2019.  Seasons like these go a long way to the 27 point finish line.

 

No disrespect to the Minjee, Brooke, Lexi type players, but Nelly has now joined the Inbee, Lydia, JYK group; a bit of separation vs. the very very good (on more than one occasion).

 

I've never been a Nelly fan but what we are seeing is amazing.

The numbers work out such that if Nelly can win the remaining four majors and repeat as Olympic Gold Champion, she could qualify for the HoF THIS YEAR!  Do all of the above on top of what she's done so far, then the POY should be a lock.  The Vare would not be guaranteed, but likely(?).

 

This would certainly set the standard for a "historic season."

[JungleJimbo]

 

 

[PedronNiall]

7 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I dislike the use of the term Women's tees because forward tees can, and should be used by both men and women based on their abilities. 

 

No doubt the hardest part in getting men to move up when they need to is the fact that the furthest forward locations are still called Senior/Women's/Junior tees at a lot of courses.

[Treats]

6 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Unfortunately any tournament that falls the week before, or the week after a major is going to have issues filling the field with the top ranked players. 

 

A $20M LPGA purse and establishing a penalty/fine system for "premier" pros skipping signature events could help this issue.

 

The field at the RBC Heritage signature event was fairly strong, including Masters champ, Scotty S.

The "shortish" 135 mile trek (even for "Betsie" 🤣) from AN to HHI also helps too.

[Treats]

9 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

I dislike the use of the term Women's tees because forward tees can, and should be used by both men and women based on their abilities. 

 

 

Few scorecards use the term "Women's tee" nowadays.

Most scorecard tee blocks are now color coded.

 

I believe is the male ego and peer pressure that keep most men from moving from the white tees to the forward tees.

A lot of men (mostly seniors or very unskilled players) won't move up to the forward tees, even when they cannot hit the greens in "regulation" shots on 12+ holes because of distance from the white tees.

[Argonne69]

5 hours ago, Treats said:

Few scorecards use the term "Women's tee" nowadays.

Most scorecard tee blocks are now color coded.

 

I believe is the male ego and peer pressure that keep most men from moving from the white tees to the forward tees.

A lot of men (mostly seniors or very unskilled players) won't move up to the forward tees, even when they cannot hit the greens in "regulation" shots on 12+ holes because of distance from the white tees.

 

You're correct in that fewer courses have "Women's" or "Ladies" printed on the scorecard, but they're still out there. My gripe mainly includes players and course staff who use the term. I've heard plenty of starters use the term. A player tops a drive off the tee, and the gang is joking about not getting it past the "Ladies" tees.

 

[MagicClassic407]

6 hours ago, Treats said:

Few scorecards use the term "Women's tee" nowadays.

Most scorecard tee blocks are now color coded.

 

I believe is the male ego and peer pressure that keep most men from moving from the white tees to the forward tees.

A lot of men (mostly seniors or very unskilled players) won't move up to the forward tees, even when they cannot hit the greens in "regulation" shots on 12+ holes because of distance from the white tees.

And all this equals slow play. My gals and I cringe when forced to play behind a group of men all hitting from back tees of some sort, realizing quickly it's gonna be a long day. Nor will they let anyone play through that's wearing a skirt. Even if I'm with my husband, he'll announce "They'll never let us play through because you're here." 

 

[18majors]

On 4/21/2024 at 1:05 PM, Argonne69 said:

Is it possible her competition hasn't stepped up, or have slid back? 

 

 

 

 

Her competition is the same, but Nelly has stepped up.

 

Nelly's 2024 scoring average is 69.217, which is 0.636 strokes better than 2023.  It translates into 2.544 strokes better per tournament.  Instead of losing the tournament by 1-2 shots; she's now winning the tournament by 1-2 shots.

 

 

 

 

Edited April 23 by 18majors

[Treats]

3 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

A player tops a drive off the tee, and the gang is joking about not getting it past the "Ladies" tees.

 

And we all know what that's called.😂

[jmh1982]

3 hours ago, MagicClassic407 said:

And all this equals slow play. My gals and I cringe when forced to play behind a group of men all hitting from back tees of some sort, realizing quickly it's gonna be a long day. Nor will they let anyone play through that's wearing a skirt. Even if I'm with my husband, he'll announce "They'll never let us play through because you're here." 

 

Not that you should have to, but have you asked to play through? A lot of guys just don't know the etiquette required on the course and it won't even cross their mind to let the group behind play through. I know because I have played in those groups and I am usually the one that has to get everyone to hold up so someone can get through. Never seen anyone have an issue when someone asks to play through either.

[18majors]

 

Good news, but it should get better and better from here:

 

 

[Raving Shanker]

I completely disagree with most of you concerning ladies' tees. The reality is, in most clubs the women hit it way shorter than men, and so play a shorter course. So, what's the big deal in naming it as such? I am a C-grader but have only two women in my club who out-drive me. But even most of the older, nuggety C-graders outdrive most women. It is a different game. So, it is right that the women play a shorter course, and so hence the term "Ladies' Tees" - and good luck to the women who can drive it 180+ m (200 y), you've earned your advantage, just like a longer man.

 

Also, I like playing off back tees. I love the fight to discipline myself to not try and over-hit it. The fairways are effectively narrower, and playing well feels like a tortuous exercise. But I like getting a score off the back tees, because I know I earned it.

 

Slow play comes mostly from being disorganised, not short hitting, and to a lesser degree, slow prep for shots. I think longer handicap players need to accept that if they take 20% more shots, they need to take 20% less time prepping for each and walking to their ball.

 

All this makes the game more inclusive. But nobody wants it TOO inclusive. We had a guy recently at my club shoot gross 192 (net 139) off a 53 handicap. Let that sink in! Thankfully, his group was behind mine.

 

 

[Argonne69]

Just now, Raving Shanker said:

I completely disagree with most of you concerning ladies' tees. The reality is, in most clubs the women hit it way shorter than men, and so play a shorter course. So, what's the big deal in naming it as such? I am a C-grader but have only two women in my club who out-drive me. But even most of the older, nuggety C-graders outdrive most women. It is a different game. So, it is right that the women play a shorter course, and so hence the term "Ladies' Tees" - and good luck to the women who can drive it 180+ m (200 y), you've earned your advantage, just like a longer man.

 

Also, I like playing off back tees. I love the fight to discipline myself to not try and over-hit it. The fairways are effectively narrower, and playing well feels like a tortuous exercise. But I like getting a score off the back tees, because I know I earned it.

 

Slow play comes mostly from being disorganised, not short hitting, and to a lesser degree, slow prep for shots. I think longer handicap players need to accept that if they take 20% more shots, they need to take 20% less time prepping for each and walking to their ball.

 

All this makes the game more inclusive. But nobody wants it TOO inclusive. We had a guy recently at my club shoot gross 192 (net 139) off a 53 handicap. Let that sink in! Thankfully, his group was behind mine.

 

 

 

Nelly hits it 280+ yds. Should she play the "Ladies Tees" because she's a women? I've played with plenty of short hitting men. Should they not be able to play the "Ladies Tees"? 

 

Call them forward tees, red tees, short tees, or shorter tees. It has nothing to do with one sex. Tee selection should be based on driving distance and skill level.

 

[ChronicSlicer]

On 4/22/2024 at 12:49 AM, grm24 said:

Nelly is currently at 4 consecutive weeks/events winning. 

 

Sure if you don't count the week off between Shadow Creek and Chevron. Every definition of consecutive I come across mentions "no breaks" "unbroken".

I suppose the best terminology might be she has won the last 5 events in a row that she entered.

[jmh1982]

2 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

Nelly hits it 280+ yds. Should she play the "Ladies Tees" because she's a women? I've played with plenty of short hitting men. Should they not be able to play the "Ladies Tees"? 

 

Call them forward tees, red tees, short tees, or shorter tees. It has nothing to do with one sex. Tee selection should be based on driving distance and skill level.

 

Honestly don't get the fuss one way or the other. Just do what's right for your game and don't give a crap what the tees are called. I get that some people are self conscious about it, but that's their problem.

 

That being said, even if you call it the front tees or by a color it's still going to have the stigma of being the "easy" tees to play from. People's egos will get involved no matter what you call it. I think the idea that the hesitation for playing from those tees is that they are called ladies tees is overexaggerated.

 

Hell I have known plenty of terrible golfers that won't tee off from anywhere, but the tips or one up and that is on courses that just have colors and like 5 tee box options. Personally like to go somewhere in the middle and I typically hit my driver around 280+ (miss the fairway quite often though).

Edited April 24 by jmh1982

[JungleJimbo]

11 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

player tops a drive off the tee, and the gang is joking about not getting it past the "Ladies" tees.

in some places, the perpetrator would buy drinks for his flight mates, for not crossing the “Ladies Tees” with tee shot. 
 

To my surprise… in other places, unsympathetic flight mates would request the player to play the rest of the hole “elephant-style” (pockets turned out, and the rest …I will leave to your imagination!  🐘)

[jmh1982]

I remember a video by Genevieve Ling some years back in Malaysia (I think) where she was having to argue to play the back tees (she is a Asian tour pro golfer) and was even getting dirty looks from others. Doubt it would be quite like that in the states for the most part, but it shows you where some of the world is in comparison.

[ChronicSlicer]

9 hours ago, 18majors said:

 

 

 

Her competition is the same, but Nelly has stepped up.

 

Nelly's 2024 scoring average is 69.217, which is 0.636 strokes better than 2023.  It translates into 2.544 strokes better per tournament.  Instead of losing the tournament by 1-2 shots; she's now winning the tournament by 1-2 shots.

 

 

 

 

If your gonna talk about Nelly's scoring avg being better, then you better tell everybody how Janet, Lilia, Hyo Joo, Ronnie, JYK, Linn, Nasa, Carlota all have a worse scoring average than last year, not to mention Minjee, Celine, Megan K, Corpuz, Alison L. The competition is not the same, just look at the leaderboards. I mentioned this before, but of course everyone wants to ignore the facts.

 

As I said before, I'm in no way trying to diminish what Nelly is doing right now, but the competition is honestly not up to snuff right now.

[ChronicSlicer]

4 hours ago, 18majors said:

 

Good news, but it should get better and better from here:

 

 

Last year's final round peaked at 1.54m, averaged 941k. Looks like the final round average was down 5k this year, but the people tuned in likely on the 17th/18th hole just to see who won. 

[jmh1982]

29 minutes ago, ChronicSlicer said:

If your gonna talk about Nelly's scoring avg being better, then you better tell everybody how Janet, Lilia, Hyo Joo, Ronnie, JYK, Linn, Nasa, Carlota all have a worse scoring average than last year, not to mention Minjee, Celine, Megan K, Corpuz, Alison L. The competition is not the same, just look at the leaderboards. I mentioned this before, but of course everyone wants to ignore the facts.

 

As I said before, I'm in no way trying to diminish what Nelly is doing right now, but the competition is honestly not up to snuff right now.

Should be pointed out that during this streak her scoring average in the stroke play events has been 68.2 which is incredibly good. Especially considering 2-3 of those events were not played in easy conditions.

[ChronicSlicer]

13 hours ago, Argonne69 said:

 

A player tops a drive off the tee, and the gang is joking about not getting it past the "Ladies" tees.

 

For these guys I save all the pink balls I find and casually toss it to them promptly after such an embarrassing shot as mentioned in your post. It usually comes flying back at me like a Nolan Ryan fastball minus the accuracy 😂

[Argonne69]

1 minute ago, jmh1982 said:

Should be pointed out that during this streak her scoring average in the stroke play events has been 68.2 which is incredibly good. Especially considering 2-3 of those events were not played in easy conditions.

 

The Ford Championship was a birdie fest. She shot 20 under par. Definitely skewed the average. 

 

[jmh1982]

1 minute ago, Argonne69 said:

 

The Ford Championship was a birdie fest. She shot 20 under par. Definitely skewed the average. 

 

True, but I feel like more than a normal amount of these early tournaments have played quite a bit more difficult than is usual. Also it's 68.5 when factoring the stroke play portion of the T-Mobile match play tournament. I'm sure part of her dominance is no one else playing at a dominant level, but 68.5 scoring average would rank #1 in most years.

[ChronicSlicer]

1 minute ago, jmh1982 said:

I'm sure part of her dominance is no one else playing at a dominant level

Dominant level? hell Minjee is sitting at almost par with a 71.86, Allison Corpuz 71.38, Nasa 71.17, Linn Grant 71.16.

There's only 2 players averaging under 70 right now.

Half the LPGA is averaging over par right now.

[JungleJimbo]

2 hours ago, jmh1982 said:

I remember a video by Genevieve Ling some years back in Malaysia (I think) where she was having to argue to play the back tees (she is a Asian tour pro golfer) and was even getting dirty looks from others. Doubt it would be quite like that in the states for the most part, but it shows you where some of the world is in comparison.

I will confess that a lady teeing off the back tees at my club will also get some attention … nothing sinister/no ill-intention meant by it; simply a rarity reserved for better /elite players. 
 

Similarly, Genevieve Ling’s back tee encounter with the golf club staff she was visiting (not her local) was because they weren’t used to these exceptions to their SOP. 

[JungleJimbo]

1 hour ago, ChronicSlicer said:

Dominant level? hell Minjee is sitting at almost par with a 71.86, Allison Corpuz 71.38, Nasa 71.17, Linn Grant 71.16.

There's only 2 players averaging under 70 right now.

Half the LPGA is averaging over par right now.

Who’s the other player (apart from Nelly) with a sub-70 stroke average?

 

…Edit: found it. Brooke Henderson. https://www.lpga.com/statistics/scoring/scoring-average
 

 

Edited April 24 by JungleJimbo