I see a lot of WRXers playing x flex

[mont86]

Shaft flex rates next to distance.

[Sean2]

Dare I admit this? I play Senior flex in my irons. I hit the ball further and straighter. I'm 53 and a 10.6.

 

Tom Wishon had this to say: But at the end of the day, the majority of golfers with swing speeds of 100 mph and lower are going to do far more harm for their game by choosing a shaft that is a little too stiff rather than a shaft that ends up being a little too flexible. In short, when in doubt, always err on the side of more flexibility in the shaft.

[Konakid67]

Fitting vs what people think they should play. If you fit into x play x if you fit into ladies soft stepped like me then thats okay too. Just kidding.

 

All golfers would be better off with more fitting and less guesswork.

 

Come on, male ego never comes into play in golf!

+1, I was fitted into my shafts. I love my rifle 6.0's, (with my swing speed it said I could do a 7.0) the 6's were easy to load. Some X's are way to stiff like a Speeder 757 X, I can hit it but it is hard to load the shaft. Some X's might be like an SX (S+) that play out to around 270cmp. One of my drivers is like that. I play what feels good ego has nothing to do with it. I know my distances from my GPS, it might be off some but not much. When I drive a green (or to the side) that is 320 I do not care if I did it with a regular or an X I just know it feels good. No I do not avg 320 but I know when I go after the ball with a stiff shaft I seem to hook it. All shafts are different I would not be surprised if most Factory X's are SX's. I also play a true small blade another huge debate on WRX, just play what feels good and do not be a hatter because someone plays different clubs or shafts.

Kevin

[jimmyteeball]

Yes, you nailed me, I play x flex so I can intimidate you op paper and massage my weak self image; I like to play poorly with the wrong shaft so I can feel better about myself...

 

I also bend my lofts five degrees strong so you will get upset that I just hit a 7 iron over a 200 yard par three...

 

but hey, that's me...

[JOSEPHLB]

I only hit my driver around 240 carry, with a little roll.. 7 iron about 145-148.. and 5 iron around 175-179..

So.. I "should" be playing stiff.. but I don't..

R flex in my driver and fairway wood..

Just built my hybrids and irons using the new FST 115 A/R combo's and tipped them in between an A and R flex.. so I guess that would be a "soft R" or a "hard A" flex..

 

I guess I have no ego. :)

[J-Fonz]

I play what works for me - plain and simple. I've played S300's, S400's, Apex 4/5, Tri-Spec S, Rifle 5.5-6.5, and X100 in iron shafts and 3 sets that had X100's in them have worked the best for me (better distance, better control, and tighter dispersion).

 

J

 

ETA - add JZ stiff to the list, which I also don't like.

[bjgolfer]

I play witha mixture of flexes. My irons came with the X's and played very well with them. I am very accurate but lost about 1/2 to a club in distance (but some might be froma a car accident and 20 more years in age). I still hit a 8I about 152 with a smooth swing. That is long enought for me to play any course. I guess if I wasn't so cheap, I would maybe try different shafts to get the best for me. But I dont play for money, only for exercise and enjoyment.

 

We (my wife and kids included) cant justify spend tons of money on golf equipment when a good swing makes good contact makes a good shot result. Not who has the most expensive shaft, tour issue club, etc etc., at least I have not seen them give a PGA trophy out for that player.

 

brad

[bigstunnerdude]

I was fitted for an X Flex in my Driver Shaft back in January 07. I'm definitely a hitter of the ball and not a great swinger of the club. Never though in a million years I'd have a need for X Flex shafts, but the fitter doing my fitting found it offered me the most consistancy with the driver so I've stuck with it.

 

Saying that whilst having my driver re-shafted this past fortnight I have been using a Junior Driver with a most flexible shaft I've ever seen. I smack that really well on the range and course. Can't work it out as its totally opposite to the my X Flex.

[Hifade]

so much depends on how you load the shaft......swinging it hard and fast does not always warrant an X

[dorfblee]

Isn't there a Maxfit shaft loading analyser or something? It measures how you load the shaft and gives you a more complete profile of your swing.

 

I think one of the local SF Bay Area shops uses it and it's just another variable in fitting. One of their prime examples is a customer nicknamed "the judge". An older player who has a short back swing and a very very quick transition . . . they fit him into an X and he ended up being more accurate and consistently longer. The SS was not very high . . . I'll have to look for the article for the numbers . . . it's the Golf Equipment Chronicles in Golf Today.

 

An X flex varies from manufacturer to manufacturer and also plays differently depending on the bore type in the club . . . an X may freq high but in a shallow bore head it may play "soft", etc.

[stage1350]

I'd bet more bags here are real than you think. :)

 

One item that you need to consider is that a lot of people are playing uptipped X shafts that will frequency closer to a stiff. It's also the reason that you see a lot of short shafted Titleist drivers. Putting the shaft all the way in a Titleist or properly tipping a blind bore driver would force a lot of players to step down a flex.

 

My father still has a Fujikura 857 Pro-Ti X in his Cleveland Comp. It freqs at 248 and at 64 years old, he still moves it out there. But the shaft is labeled as an X. Most other shafts, he's in a stiff flex. The old Graphite Design YS series played soft to flex. Most of the Matrix series (F7M2 and F8M2 excepted) play notoriously weak to flex as well.

 

I'm not going to deny the vanity and ego factor, but there are people out there that can bring the heat. Check out a local ReMax qualifier and you'll see who they are in your area.

[hayam]

Shaft is also a timing mechanism. Play the stiffest we can load 90percent of the time.. Highly depends on the swing and loading.Why? too soft and the shaft will deflect too much thus not so accurate for that person. Jack Nicklaus prefer softer shaft and he is very long during his time. Ben Hogan have the stiffest shaft available at that time and he is also pretty long .

 

When I started to come back to play golf i was all fast and fury but could not load a stiff even. because i was casting and using alot of wrists power. but swing had changed for the better and X is the best for me now. So yes, highly depends how we swing the club.

 

well i gota ask this in return. Do you have any business using a stiff shaft? Most people I know do better with a regular shaft..

[ahnx0027]

I totally agree with above poster. If you have fundamentally sound swing (late release), I don't think it's matter of how strong you are to swing 110mph+. Look at some juior goplfer and LPGA player with sound swing, with small body frame they hit the ball 280-300 yrds+ without any problems....

[SacTown24]

well i gota ask this in return. Do you have any business using a stiff shaft? Most people I know do better with a regular shaft..

 

yes sir, I do. Oh, and you don't know me.

[labillyboy]

I totally agree with above poster. If you have fundamentally sound swing (late release), I don't think it's matter of how strong you are to swing 110mph+. Look at some juior goplfer and LPGA player with sound swing, with small body frame they hit the ball 280-300 yrds+ without any problems....

 

 

Dial your numbers back to 250-280 and I can kind of agree with what you are saying.

 

I don't think there are ANY players on the LPGA averaging 300... without checking, there probably are only a couple even sniffing 280.... Juniors? There have to be a couple who can average 270-280 but 300? There are only a few on The PGA tour who do that.... the smaller the golfer the shorter the shot given identical technique to a larger, stronger person... You need strength to generate club head speed, there is also what I would call resistance at impact which favors a stonger person.... Watch a long drive competition... there are not a lot of contenders who are slight of build there....

[Shibumi]

To be honest, it never even crossed my mind that someone would lie about their WITB. I have a feeling that a lot of people do tend to exaggerate the distances they achieve, but I think that not all of them are lying. Some people really just have no idea what their averages are I've hit some of my longest drives over the past couple of years with my J33R, with several in the 325-335 range. And I routinely hit in the 300-305 range. But I'm guessing that my true "average" is closer to 275 especially considering that even slight mishits can often travel 250 or less. So yes, it is kind of amusing when some people who are 10+ HC claim to average 300 yards. To do that, they'd have to be consistent ballstrikers and have the capacity to hit the occasional 350-360 yarder. I think that most people don't take all their mishits into account when they are estimating their true average.

 

I generally play X-flex shafts in my driver, woods and hybrids, and relatively heavy shafts at that. But, for me, it's honestly not about ego, it's about being able to control my dispersion and trajectory. I've been fit numerous times and could probably get by fine with a Stiff shaft that has been tipped. However, in a given shaft, the X usually works better because it helps lower my ballflight (I'm a high-ball hitter) and improve my dispersion. If anything, it might reduce distance slightly, but not enough that I really notice. I think that the reason stiffer shafts work for me is my swing type. I lift weights quite a bit and have enough strength to put a lot of load on the shaft. However, I don't have a ton of shoulder flexibility, so I have a relatively compact swing. Some of the other guys I play with who are also pretty big hitters have longer, smoother swings. A couple of them hit about the same distance as me, but use lighter, more flexible shafts. I've tried their drivers and hit the ball a mile high. They've tried mine and generally hit a very low fade.

 

To your original point, however, I believe that there are far more people playing Stiff when they should be play Regular, and on down the line. As opposed to those playing X-flex when they should be playing less. The reason is that most shops don't carry X-flex clubs. You have to do a little work to get them. And I think it's typically the better/stronger players who are serious enough to get fit, order clubs with custom specs or reshaft, etc. And most better players aren't going to go with a flex which isn't working for them. I don't see many high handicappers on the course swinging X-flex. Almost all the guys that I know who play them are pretty serious golfers who have no problem loading the shaft. That being said, some of the best golfers I know swing Stiff and even Regular because of their smooth tempo. A couple of them are competitive mid amateurs. I have seen a couple of juniors swinging X who have no business doing so, but I think that is just youth and ego..

[villa]

I have to admit that my swing speed is just short of needing an X100 iron shaft.

 

That being said, this is the shaft I've used pretty much all my golfing life. Why? Because it works best for me. I'm aware that I'd possibly get more distance with a soft stepped X100 and in actual fact, I get the best results on full shots with Rifle Flighted 6.5's. That being said, it's not distance that I'm looking for. I want the shaft that allows me to work the ball and the one that I can hit a 3/4 or punch shot with and know exactly where the ball will go. I'm comfortable with X100's and they'll probably remain in the bag until I find myself blocking everything.

 

As for the driver and 3 woods shafts, I just about fit in to X. Granted, I could go down a flex (I have done in the past), but the only shot most stiff shafts will allow me to hit is a high draw. I like to work the ball off the tee and I want the shaft that allows me to hit a low fade on demand.

 

Is it an ego thing? Personally I don't think so. I'll happily admit that I'm not the longest player in the world but again, I've always been a believer in accuracy over distance.

[TheRawEdge]

I generally play X-flex shafts in my driver, woods and hybrids, and relatively heavy shafts at that. But, for me, it's honestly not about ego, it's about being able to control my dispersion and trajectory. I've been fit numerous times and could probably get by fine with a Stiff shaft that has been tipped. However, in a given shaft, the X usually works better because it helps lower my ballflight (I'm a high-ball hitter) and improve my dispersion. If anything, it might reduce distance slightly, but not enough that I really notice.

 

This one is me as well. For me, X flex shafts work better because they help reduce my miss (big hooks). The stiffer the better, as long as I can load it, and with a 112 driver swing speed, I can load an X in most shaft lines.

[projamie]

Yea im agreeing with alot of posts here... Most people should be using a flex less then they are... Most people could get away with stiff but would be better off with regular... Its mostly about timing... My coach was having a discussion with a colleuge of mine who thought he should be using stiff... My coach took him on the range, took a Ladies, Senior, Regular, Stiff and X stiff drivers out... He hit every one with the same swing and they were all dead straight and only difference was distance.... Proving the point he could use any shaft he wanted but he plays what hes most comfortable with... Personally i cant stand wet noodles, the stiffer the better but also im more concerned about dispersion than anything....

 

I fit guys all day long and all i can say is from say 20 that i see, 4/5 will fit stiff... Only ever fit 3 for X...

[rblmp32]

While I agree some what, I say in humor, that most of the X players don't

have a 2 iron in the bag.

From an R flexer.

 

Most pros don't have a 2 iron in the bag either :)

 

One thing that does surprise is that after 25 years in this business, having fit hundreds of golfers, measured many times that, had all the "latest devices" available during that time, etc. I saw few golfers with swing speeds over 100mph, less over 105, less over 110 and damn few, I repeat few, faster.

 

I use to make money by betting some of the "egos" that came in my shop tellng me that their swing speed was so and so. I bet them that I would pay them $5.00 if at that speed or over it if they paid me $1.00 per MPH they were under it. I would even use two devices at the same time to show them.

 

Many arrive at the speed they thought by how far they hit the ball (they of course counted roll and forget down hill thingys), were measured on "machines" that did not actually measure clubhead speed (like those that extrapolate it), those that used like ball speed to MPH with the wrong divide factor, on machine were one can "adjust" the conditions (you should see my drives at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs, versus my home course here at sea level), etc.

 

Yesterday, I hit one tee shot further on a hole then I had ever it the ball before on that hole. Is that now my "new" swing whatever measurement? I not only do not think so. I know it is not so.

 

Last, but not least, many raise everything in life (their height, their so and so length, their salary, etc.) by a factor........LOL

 

Now watch all those 110mph plussers get on my butt. They will lead of with: I do not know about you/others, but I.....etc......LOL

 

Hahaha...I have no doubt you won that bet many a time.

[Barry72]

I found this forum while hunting online for advice on X flex shafts as I am sure others have but I must admit to a bit of suprise at some of the numbers some people quote but a little exageration is only human I suppose.

I was part of the once bitten twice shy club when I was younger, I was always tall for my age and maxed out at 6ft 6 by 16 but didn't fill out until I was 19. At 16 I tried a Mizuno TP15 at the demo at the Scottish open and fell in love, found the same club with the same stiff flex shaft at Auchterlonies in the 2nd hand bin while visiting the Open at St Andrews so bought it as it was "ment to be". Couldn't hit it for toffee, low cut every time so swopped back to my origonal Taylormade Burner. Ever since then I always went for a softer flex if given a choice as I knew I could load it up even though my body weight all but doubled in this time, my last few drivers tell the story.

Big Bertha 9 degree(i think) with a firm flex, had this for years but ended up hitting it like a 5 wood.

Great Big Bertha 6.5 degree with a strong flex, filled out by now and ended up snapping 2 shafts during normal play before rep game me an RCH 36 shaft for it.

Cobra 400sz 7.5 strong flex, liked it for a short time but then kept popping it in the air.

R7 quad tp 7.5 degree with a Nippon x flex which again I like to start with.

Now have above r7 but reshafted with a Graphalloy Blue X flex and hit it alot better and find it more stable although I would still like to get the ball flight lower, reguarding above post about swing faults causing higher spin, I am sure this is the problem but as I struggle to play 2 rounds a week during the short season here I am still hunting for the holy grail that will give me my desired ball flight with the driver.

Last session on trackman showed most swings with the driver to be 115-116mph although best result for distance/carry/spin was 112mph(a lesson to swing slower?). Irons have tipped x100's with LT heads which were fitted at a Taylormade tour van demo day to replace my 962's with 7.0 rifles.Personally I am now much happier with x flex and lose less shots way left as my shot spread has tightened.

I liked the post about the $1 bet per mph as I was starting to think of my swing speed as slow, A friend of mine has a silly swing speed of 125mph and he is silly long, he is also in the top 100 of the world amateur rankings and last year was comfortably in the top 50(lost his US college win points this year). Having seen him hit a ball and the coments from the other top amateurs in Scotland and some pros who have seen him hit a ball would suggest to me that some(not all)of the people who post amazing swing speeds might be dissapointed after a trackman session, I know I was as I had read alot of posts on here before I went although the club fitter did say my stats were well above average.

A good point was also made as to how hard it is to find x flex drivers, at the last Taylormade demo I attended the rep admitted he had nothing for me, tried the stiffest/lowest combos he had but everything went airborn, if anyone is going to the extra hastle to play the wrong clubs I would find that hard to understand but each to their own. This game is hard enough with out using the wrong equipment so I would guess/hope anyone using stiffer shaftes than they require will see the light before they lose too much more money during bounce games.

 

Barry.

[Barry72]

Forgot to mention I have a 2 iron, I was stupid and didn't get one when I bought the set. Wallace finally managed to get me one and it is used more off the tee than the driver. Also had all my LT irons knocked 2 degrees strong to make room for another wedge and get the 2 iron a little closer to the 3 wood.

 

Barry.

[JCAG]

I totally agree with above poster. If you have fundamentally sound swing (late release), I don't think it's matter of how strong you are to swing 110mph+. Look at some juior goplfer and LPGA player with sound swing, with small body frame they hit the ball 280-300 yrds+ without any problems....

 

 

Dial your numbers back to 250-280 and I can kind of agree with what you are saying.

 

I don't think there are ANY players on the LPGA averaging 300... without checking, there probably are only a couple even sniffing 280.... Juniors? There have to be a couple who can average 270-280 but 300? There are only a few on The PGA tour who do that.... the smaller the golfer the shorter the shot given identical technique to a larger, stronger person... You need strength to generate club head speed, there is also what I would call resistance at impact which favors a stonger person.... Watch a long drive competition... there are not a lot of contenders who are slight of build there....

 

Pavin ranks 196th in driving distance with an average of 262.1 yards -- some 50 behind Watson, the current leader. Conversely, only one player, Larry Mize, who turns 50 later this year, ranks below Pavin and that's by just 7/10ths of a yard.

 

Based on the above, the average PGA Tour Driving distance is 286. Listed on their web site is a driving distance average of 283.7. NOTICE THE WORD AVERAGE.

 

LPGA does not list average but they list by player actual driving distance. #1 is 270, #150 is 236, #75 is 248.7 so we can assume that is their average.

[HeadonaStick]

I totally agree with above poster. If you have fundamentally sound swing (late release), I don't think it's matter of how strong you are to swing 110mph+. Look at some juior goplfer and LPGA player with sound swing, with small body frame they hit the ball 280-300 yrds+ without any problems....

 

 

Dial your numbers back to 250-280 and I can kind of agree with what you are saying.

 

I don't think there are ANY players on the LPGA averaging 300... without checking, there probably are only a couple even sniffing 280.... Juniors? There have to be a couple who can average 270-280 but 300? There are only a few on The PGA tour who do that.... the smaller the golfer the shorter the shot given identical technique to a larger, stronger person... You need strength to generate club head speed, there is also what I would call resistance at impact which favors a stonger person.... Watch a long drive competition... there are not a lot of contenders who are slight of build there....

 

Pavin ranks 196th in driving distance with an average of 262.1 yards -- some 50 behind Watson, the current leader. Conversely, only one player, Larry Mize, who turns 50 later this year, ranks below Pavin and that's by just 7/10ths of a yard.

 

Based on the above, the average PGA Tour Driving distance is 286. Listed on their web site is a driving distance average of 283.7. NOTICE THE WORD AVERAGE.

 

LPGA does not list average but they list by player actual driving distance. #1 is 270, #150 is 236, #75 is 248.7 so we can assume that is their average.

Bad math, bad. Go sit in the corner.

 

248.7 is the median driving distance. It has nothing to do with the average. Also, based only on the information you have provided the average driving distance on the PGA Tour should be 278.2.

[Barry72]

How do the measure average driving distances these days? Years ago I used to work at the Scottish Open and was suprised to find out they had two predetermined holes where they measured the drives and this went towards the players average driving distance. This sounds ok until you see some players hitting 3 woods or 1 irons, didn't really give the driving distance.

 

Barry.

[LONG&STR8]

I don't really understand the oversized ego accusations. If you play a shaft that is too stiff for you you will in most cases hit the ball a shorter distance. How is that feeding someone's ego on the course? As far as being dishonest about individual's WITB, why? Nothing on this board does anything positive or negative to my ego. That's my girlfriend's job and she's really good at it.

[HeadonaStick]

How do the measure average driving distances these days? Years ago I used to work at the Scottish Open and was suprised to find out they had two predetermined holes where they measured the drives and this went towards the players average driving distance. This sounds ok until you see some players hitting 3 woods or 1 irons, didn't really give the driving distance.

 

Barry.

I believe that is pretty much how it is done, although they pick holes that most players would normally hit driver on.

[Barry72]

They may pick holes where most hit driver but I would guess all average hitters or less will all hit driver which will maximise their driving stats while the true long hitters will be more selective therefore making it all but impossible to pick a hole they all hit driver. If two holes are messured and they hit 2 iron 260 yards on one then driver 320 on the next the stats will show 290 as average driving distance with the driver which it obviously is not.

Just remember this next time you hear a politician quoting statistics, factual stats do not always paint the true picture otherwise anyone who tops the long driving stats at the end of the year would be way over 300 yards.

 

Barry.

[mantan]

Interesting thread....I do notice that guys playing X flex invariably put it in the WITB posts...while those playing softer flexes do not. Maybe it just gives me a laugh because I'm watching George Carlin's old 'Jammin in New York' special on HBO and he's talking about the fragility of the male ego....

[buztech]

I play XXX. I like my equipment very stiff.

 

 

Wait a minute...! just realized, this is Golf discussion forum.. sorry, never mind... for a second I thought I was still in the DVD/Video discussion forum, the layout and colors of that site looks almost the same.