So What Can We Do?

[Well Played]

Slow Play- Your Chance to Make a Difference

There have been quite a few threads recently about slow play. I enjoy every one of them, however most seem to be more for venting purposes or storytelling. How about one that actually tries to suggest ways of fixing this widely spread epidemic that many of us on this forum believe to be slowly ruining our great game? Please, no stories, no venting, no ridiculing - just good, constructive, practicable ideas that may help golf club managers, pros and rangers who are amongst us improve the general pace of play in all communities. Perhaps it would be beneficial to get some ideas on paper for those who work so diligently at trying to improve the pace of play.



So c’mon all you who continually b**** about slow play (myself included), now is your chance to make a difference. You never know who is lurking this board and might just implement one or more of these brilliant ideas. There are no dumb ideas as long as they are reasonable. And to the extent any of these ideas is already in motion let’s hear about its effectiveness… Or lack there of.



I’ll start:



One idea I always thought would be interesting is 10%-off coupons for a foursome that finishes in under 4 1/2 hours, and 20%-off coupons for groups that finish in under 4 hours. The coupon can only be used for greens fees for a future round of golf in the same calendar year. I know what everyone is thinking. I’m not concerned right now about how this would be administered and tracked. I know the course managers and pros and rangers (of which I am none) would be able to come up with something. And I realize not all courses should have the same standards depending on difficulty, location, etc. I’m just throwing out the above time benchmarks as an example.

[krustyburger]

The solution is to have rangers on the course who actually do their jobs and force slower groups to let faster groups through.

 

The coupon idea is good, but it only takes one slow group to screw it up for everyone else.

[PurePursuit]

Ability tests and stronger ranger presence. If you can't carry the ball consistently 170-200 yards in the air you have to play the most forward Tees or you need to take a lesson first.

[golfortennis]

I'll be called elitist for these but:

 

10 handicap or less(or medical condition) to ride in a cart. The speed advantage of carts is lost when neither player finds the fairway very regularly. If a cart is such a big deal, then work on the game.

 

Beer: Either walk and drink beer on the course, or cart it and drink beer in the clubhouse. I'd do away with all beer on the course myself, but that will never happen. But, it's a lot tougher to get sloshed while walking. Carrying the beer and putting it down at each shot will limit the consumption.

 

Short of those, like has been mentioned, "prove you can play" for certain courses, or at least to play beyond a certain tee. I'd say have a handicap, but I'm sure that can be fudged.

[Mizgoodie]

make people play ready golf. the carts should speed up golf if used right drop the other player at his ball and go to your ball. I see alot of people ride together get to there balls and don't have any idea of what there going to do. then it takes forever to decide . then they drive over to the other ball and do the same thing.

 

 

AND PLAY FROM THE RIGHT TEES ! I don't think using a cart based on handicap is fair at all alot of people don't play alot and just want to enjoy a relaxing day on the course they just need to play ready golf.

 

 

on a personal note i walked all the time and love to walk i am 31,,,,, but why does it seem everyone around my age rides, some of my friends never walk and won't it brothers me to all end they seem like it is work to walk a golf course.

I think having no carts unless an certain age or medical or outing would be the way to go. but that will never happen people are to lazy to even walk .

[Ronzo]

1. Have the starter inform everyone about the proper use of a Provisional Ball. Have the starter insist that, if a ball goes into the second cut of rough, a Provisional must be played, and after 5 minutes of search, that original ball MUST be abandoned, and the Provisional ball becomes the ball in play. Most lost time comes fron searching for balls, in my experience.

 

2. For courses that have GPS on the carts, have a five minute limit on lost ball searches enforced by automatically informing the ranger when a cart goes out of the second cut of rough. If they can tell when I ride too close to the green when they've forgotten to flag my cart as handicapped, this is certainly possible.

[Mizgoodie]

i was reading this again and it seems all the problems could be fixed with rangers doing a better job of seeing what going out there...

[6t4gt0]

Incentives for players to finish in under 4 would be my top choice, next round 1/2 price (etc.)

Handicaps from what I've experienced don't have much effect on pace of play, I actually find lower hdcp players to be slower on average.

Instruct players to play ready golf, no need for 3 guys to watch each others shot, go to your ball and when the person out has hit then hit the ball.

Rangers, I think they have a tough job, most are volunteers. IMO the pro shop should inform all golfers that if they are slow the ranger may ask them to speed up play.

[cj3wood]

like already been said just more ranger presence and making sure people know what ready golf is.

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.

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(my idea though, and it might sound stupid, but back in the day when i went to this particular pool hall you would give the guy up front your i.d. and then you paid based on how long you played i dunno maybe something similar but of course it'll never happen)

[sigmapete1]

There have been quite a few threads recently about slow play. I enjoy every one of them, however most seem to be more for venting purposes or storytelling. How about one that actually tries to suggest ways of fixing this widely spread epidemic that many of us on this forum believe to be slowly ruining our great game? Please, no stories, no venting, no ridiculing - just good, constructive, practicable ideas that may help golf club managers, pros and rangers who are amongst us improve the general pace of play in all communities. Perhaps it would be beneficial to get some ideas on paper for those who work so diligently at trying to improve the pace of play.

 

 

So c’mon all you who continually b**** about slow play (myself included), now is your chance to make a difference. You never know who is lurking this board and might just implement one or more of these brilliant ideas. There are no dumb ideas as long as they are reasonable. And to the extent any of these ideas is already in motion let’s hear about its effectiveness… Or lack there of.

 

 

I’ll start:

 

 

One idea I always thought would be interesting is 10%-off coupons for a foursome that finishes in under 4 1/2 hours, and 20%-off coupons for groups that finish in under 4 hours. The coupon can only be used for greens fees for a future round of golf in the same calendar year. I know what everyone is thinking. I’m not concerned right now about how this would be administered and tracked. I know the course managers and pros and rangers (of which I am none) would be able to come up with something. And I realize not all courses should have the same standards depending on difficulty, location, etc. I’m just throwing out the above time benchmarks as an example.

 

 

One problem I could foresee with the coupon idea is more arguments and guys hitting up on people in front of them in order to speed up and get their coupon. Big disaster potential there.

 

One solution...competent rangers. The problem is NOT the guy who plays once a month and takes 5 minutes to practice swing before hitting it 40 yards then another 5 minutes of practice swings, its the Ranger who isn't there to tell him thats unacceptable. That guy may think a normal round takes 5 1/2 hours.

 

I really liked the earlier idea of the starter explaining to every group the proper use of a provisional ball. I think that the mere fact that someone has hit a provisional makes them spend less time looking for their first ball (except if its a tournament or something).

[swanry30]

gold mountain has it figured out. city ordinance for pace of play. tee times appropriately spaced. when the first group left the first green - group two was allowed to tee off. never once did i see the group in front of me on the same hole. the marshals will pick up non abiding groups to the next hole to maintain proper pace of play. i only play here once a year - but the olympic side seems to run very smooth.

[buggyman]

the problem is carts and most guys think they are better then they really are. In Florida pretty much all public courses make you take carts, there is no walking. The bottom line around here is, the courses during the busy part of the year set up tee times too close (5-7 minutes apart). You go to the first tee and find 5 or 6 groups waiting to tee off. The money coming in is the most important thing. When I worked as an Assistant pro I was told to never have the rangers tell people to speed up. I was told these people paid to have fun and should not be rushed. ALSO in florida most courses have different rates for later in the day. For example $25 before noon and $20 after noon. Well what drove me nuts is all the cheap SOB's would show up at 11 have a tee time for 12:05 and want to pay the discount rate and then go off early. I would not allow it and when the head pro found out I again was told to let them go. But it backed up the first tee and entire course. These practices from golf clubs plays a big fator in slow play.

 

Now to why golfers are slow. Guys watch the pros and think I should do everything they do. When I would give lessons I would tell guys most golfers spend way too much time thinking over the ball. Then they get to the green and look at 40 foot putts from 4 angles and then 3 putt for an 8......

Not to mention everytime you watch Golf on TV they talk about pre-shot routines and such. THis is great but also why golf is slow. Not to mention guys don't play ready golf. I always tell the guys I play with up front to play READY GOLF, I say who ever gets out of the cart and to the tee box first wins, kinda as a joke so they get the point. If you can't play golf in under 4 hours you are doing something wrong.

[Brad31]

1- Cheaper green fees. Most bad golfers have the attitude I paid A LOT of money to golf here and Im gonna get my moneys worth. I'll play the tees I wanna play, take my time (they don't wanna lose to many $4 balls), have some beer, enjoy the afternoon with my friends. Most people aren't good enough for back tees, but THINK they are. Nobody wants to pay money to play tees they dont think they should play and be rushed.

 

2- Incentives for fast play are good idea but will never work. If one group takes 5 hours to play.....then every group behind them will take 5 hours to play. So this will lead to some maniac who wants a 3 hour round to make sure he gets his $7 coupon lol

 

3- Most rangers aren't very good. So more of them is bad lol

 

4- The best way would be a nice talk by the course. "Hey fellas, try to keep a good pace out there. Tee times are far enough apart so 4-4.5 hours should be within your reach. Please hit a provisional if you think your ball went out, and don't spend all day looking for your ball. Take your time, have fun, enjoy the course, but play ready golf as much as possible" Something like that. So many times its taken for granted that golfers know this stuff, but they don't. So if a nice guy calmly and clearly explained this 2 them that would help

[Solutions Etcetera]

Maybe the first criteria here would be to define slow play. It is clearly not defined as "I can play faster than the group in front of me; so they're slow". I have on occasion been hit into on the 18th by clowns that are trying to get done in under 4 hours. If that is your mindset you need to pony up the cash and go private.

 

If you're playing public and are looking to finish short of 4-4.5 hours you're just not being realistic... especially on weekends. But if you are playing public, and you are in a hurry, consider being first off. If you can't do that, consider being last off "before" the twilight rates. You will be amazed at how many people will wait to tee off to save a few bucks. Often times there is no one going off 30-45 minutes before the rate change.

[EJ Mac]

I have to say that Marshall's enforcing the pace of play would go a long way in solving this problem as well as starters to take notice of each groups tee shots to ensure each group is hitting from the proper areas. We have a course that always announces that the 4 hr. pace of play will be enforced and I have yet to see a 4 hr. round at that course. Another thing would be for golfers to think of tee boxes as handicap zones vs. womens, srs., mens, etc. and check the ego and play from the tees that accurately dictate their handicap or pace of play.

[777twist]

I don't agree so much with the "Rangers should enforce" because for most golfers, they probably play worse under pressure. I know there is one course that I play where the starter is right there at the first tee, and it sucks. You go in cold, and then you have this guy looking at you JUDGING YOU...and then when you hit a bad one, well, that's all mental.

 

See here's what I think... either you run your course or your course runs you. I hate to agree with some people who want to reward better players, but that may be the way to go. Kev posted in another thread about having a low handicap day or something like that. I don't think that's a bad idea actually.

 

But take it a step further...or multiple steps.

 

1. yardage markers... believe it or not, I BELIEVE this could speed up everyone's round. Most of the time people waste on the course is trying to determine yardage...and like another poster said, finding lost balls. Well, if you had yardage sticks/posts all the way back maybe that would help. Help me know what yardage I'm hitting and help those who shank them off the tee. I always try and remember where my ball landed, but the problem is, your perspective changes when you get down there and it looks a lot different. But if I had a 350 marker and I know my ball hit about 20 yards past it, I think it would be easier to find.

 

2. tips posters/signs. Someone mentioned this in another thread, but having some signs or posters with some rules and etiquette things on them. Provisionals are a good one.

 

3. computerize the golf course... give players a slide card and have them slide it just before they tee off (maybe have a starter there to verify) and have them slide it at the end of the round...and maybe even at the turn. Better yet, get the cart's GPS'ed (helps somewhat with the first issue I have) where it tracks people (like those cell phones your boss wants to get!!! hehe. Then you can track the progress of each group and know where they should be and if they are not...then maybe you can send out a ranger. I'm still not a fan of this, but this would lead to my next idea.

 

4. When booking tee times...don't just book like crazy. Like a poster said above, here in florida they book like every 5 to 7 min. Well, it should take 13 min to play a hole and be under 4 hours...so by scheduling at the 5 or 7 mark, you are setting things up for failure right off the bat.

 

5. Continuing with that thought... When setting tee times...why not (again computerized) just ask some questions and plugg those into the computer and tell the people what the rate will be...

 

Example: How many in your group (4), what is the tee time you are looking for (noon), what handicaps are playing from what tees? (1 x 6hdcp - Backs, 1 x 30hdcp - blues, 2 x 40hdcp - blues)... ok based on our course and slope ratings we show you at 4.5 hours, that will be "X" number of dollars and your tee time is set for 12:30pm.

 

This may seem more complicated, but at least then you are paying more of a user fee where it's based on how long you are going to use the course.

 

But along with that, if people are still playing outside their pace, then a ranger can go out and ask what the problem is... certainly you can let people slide every now and then... but as long as you have these people in your computer, you can track it...so if the ranger comes back and says "there was no one in front of them, so it's just them playing slow, mark it on their record" then the next time you do it and go slow, they will know and can penalize you by making you pick up or charging you more or whatever.

 

This isn't the be all end all to the system...it's just to get people thinking.

 

I remember going to play poker at the local casino and it was HORRIBLE, long wait times... like 3 - 5 hours just to get a table. The sytem was WHACK! Well, then they got someone to computerize everything and it went a lot smoother and they made more money. Because, now I could go play some other games and check the big screen to see where my name is every now then.

[I_HATE_SNOW]

If the course is full and the group ahead is a full hole ahead, you must pick up and go to the next tee box. Ready golf and continuous putting also should be encouraged. After you hit, keep the club in your hand and drive to the other person's ball, then you can return your club to the bag. Write down your scores at the next tee box, not sitting by the green.

[rudeskawn]

I think it is very hard/intimidating for new golfers to enjoy the sport due to all of the "rules" imposed by better golfers. I just started playing and shot a 110 on my first 18. I don't know what a "handicap" means. But I play as fast as I can just to stay out of the way of golfers behind me. I actually ended up playing behind a threesome and they let me play through but with comments like, "You're more important than us"... yada yada. I don't know if I did something wrong or they were joking around with me. I never spend more than 2-3 minutes looking for a lost ball and will let people play through if I hold them up.

 

But the thought of having to "test" to see if you can play or take lessons first is ridiculous I think. Maybe this is why a lot of people feel golf is a snobby sport. (I admit I did at first) Sorry for the rant. But I do like the idea that you can get a discount for playing a round under a certain amount of time.

[Bomb and Gouge]

As stated above, I place 100% of the blame on the golf courses. If they simply enforced a decent pace we'd have no problems.

 

Very few courses do this...for obvious reasons.

[Ronzo]

Here's a suggestion for course owners. Get some excellent condition tour-quality used balls in bulk. Have the starter ask the initials of the players in the group, mark them with their initials and a "P" in an odd-colored Sharpie, and hand two of them to every golfer teeing off. Then have him or her say to the group, "OK, folks. We know you don't want to lose balls out there, and slow the whole bunch down. So, here's a couple on us, and we've marked 'em so they're your Provisionals. If you go off the fairway and can't see your ball, hit one of these so if it's lost, you can play this one for the remainder of the hole. Try not to take a long time to find it, OK? You've got two, so that should take care of you for the round. Have fun, and don't forget to take care of the girl on the beer cart. ;-)"

 

Another suggestion is to mow the rough more closely. In Florida, bermuda rough is tough enough at 2 1/2 inches, and you can usually see the ball more quickly. 4 inch bermuda rough is a recipe for golfers looking for balls all day long and taking 5 hours + to finish.

[mikpga]

At one of the past facilities which I worked at, we had a 1-2-3 rule in regards to slow play.

 

1. Polite mentioning that they have fallen behind the 15 minute per hole pace...Please do your best to catch up...

2. Second warning, still a polite request to catch up...

3. Unfortunately, you have failed to catch up, here are your two options...

a. Pick up your balls and immediately catch up to group in front of you.

b. We will be more than happy to give you a pro-rated refund inside the pro shop...Exit golf course...

 

The key to any policy, however, is for it to be enforced!

 

We always had the ranger track all starting times of groups, and they always checked their time after 4 holes (one hour). Generally if the group got past the first four holes at our course under an hour, there wouldn't be a pace issue. If, however, the group took more than an hour, the ranger would monitor their play, and prepare themselves to enforce step 2 if necessary.

 

The owner of the course was a bit of a 'nazi' for the first few years, so we had a starter and two rangers at all times! We never had any conflicts with enforcing our policy, it was simple and straight to the point...

 

The key is having employees and owners who are willing to enforce their policies!

 

One other note...

 

Make courses more friendly...We went from 72 bunkers to 35 and witnessed a positive impact on the pace of play!

[mikpga]

Also, replying to something I read earlier...

 

Never encourage faster groups to play through, UNLESS there are a couple holes wide open in front of them...

 

Allowing faster groups to play through when the course is busy, always slows down the process...

 

The key is to enforce the pace of play policy...Playing through only communicates to slow golfers, that it is ok to play slow!

[hos]

If the course is full and the group ahead is a full hole ahead, you must pick up and go to the next tee box. Ready golf and continuous putting also should be encouraged. After you hit, keep the club in your hand and drive to the other person's ball, then you can return your club to the bag. Write down your scores at the next tee box, not sitting by the green.

 

That my friend, is a fantastic idea. Get too slow, you lose a hole you paid for. That might kick start some folks.

[Bomb and Gouge]

Never encourage faster groups to play through, UNLESS there are a couple holes wide open in front of them...

 

 

Good call!

 

When people wave us up, I yell, "JUST HURRY UP!!!!"

 

it makes no sense....like you said, it actually just slows things down even more.

[lahinchnsnglmalt]

At one of the past facilities which I worked at, we had a 1-2-3 rule in regards to slow play.

 

1. Polite mentioning that they have fallen behind the 15 minute per hole pace...Please do your best to catch up...

2. Second warning, still a polite request to catch up...

3. Unfortunately, you have failed to catch up, here are your two options...

a. Pick up your balls and immediately catch up to group in front of you.

b. We will be more than happy to give you a pro-rated refund inside the pro shop...Exit golf course...

 

The key to any policy, however, is for it to be enforced!

 

We always had the ranger track all starting times of groups, and they always checked their time after 4 holes (one hour). Generally if the group got past the first four holes at our course under an hour, there wouldn't be a pace issue. If, however, the group took more than an hour, the ranger would monitor their play, and prepare themselves to enforce step 2 if necessary.

 

The owner of the course was a bit of a 'nazi' for the first few years, so we had a starter and two rangers at all times! We never had any conflicts with enforcing our policy, it was simple and straight to the point...

 

The key is having employees and owners who are willing to enforce their policies!

 

One other note...

 

Make courses more friendly...We went from 72 bunkers to 35 and witnessed a positive impact on the pace of play!

 

Sounds good. Even when I really sucked (as opposed to now and just being pretty bad) I would always realize that there are a few dozen

people playing the same course and have no problem picking up if I was botching a hole.

Letting people know that they have x amount of time to play x amount of holes is a great idea. Even have them sign something on their reciept when they pay to that effect to reinforce it.

[blkdiamond]

I think having marshalls enforce some simple rules would help keep things going better.

 

Over the past few weeks I have seen multiple groups in front of me playing from tees that have no business playing from. Twice in the last two weeks I have had groups in front of me where two guys were playing from the back tees, one guy playing from the next set of tees, and finally one lady playing from the next set of tees (which is not the ladies tee btw). Every single hole it took the group forever to just tee off because they were playing from 3 different tees. None of them had any business playing from the tees that they were playing from, especially the guys on the back tees, they couldn't even hit the green on the par 3's.

[Craig1555]

It seems alot has been mentioned about what tee box people hit from, my thought on this has to do with design/maintenance:

 

Dead area (I don't mean dead grass, just big trouble) that would require a 200 yd. carry from the back tees, 180yds from the next set of tees and so on. That may help people in picking what tees to play from.

 

What I see most though is people taking forever from 100 yds and in. I don't have any ideas on how to speed this up other than getting the word out that after 5 shots inside 100 pick up your ball???

[RoscoeCoaltrain]

The problem is entirely the course management. I was just at a course last saturday that had tee times 7 minutes apart. At the first tee box there were 4 group waiting already at 8:30 AM. The starter simply said plan on taking 5 minutes for every shot because we have a packed course today. The round took 5 hrs 45 minutes to complete. It was ludicrous.

 

My personal feeling is the par 3's need to be staged a little better. They just back up groups because you have to wait until the group ahead is going to the next tee box. Also any blind doglegs need to use the bell system. No one wants to guess if the group ahead is clear.

 

I may have a slightly different opinion than others on here, but I feel like I would want my adequate reasonable time to play a round of golf. When I am blowing $100 for a round, I don't need a ranger yelling at me to play faster all day long. 4-4.5 hrs is an expected time for a foursome. Making a foursome play under 4 hours is bordering on rushing.

 

I think the weekend golf is expected to be slow and weekday is quick. When single I would routinely play 3-3.5 hour rounds on saturday evenings with absolutely no problem.

[SheriffBooth]

A recent Golfweek had a couple of good tips for pace of play on the putting green:

 

1. Only read the putt from behind the ball. The extra info you get from multiple looks is not worth the time you waste getting it.

2. Once you start putting, don't stop until the ball's in the hole. Everyone's in softspikes and you can only mess up someone's line so much.

 

Water's the primary hazard at my home course, so groups searching for balls isn't really a problem. But spending a decade on the putting green can be.

[777twist]

For starters they books tee times every 8 minutes and as a result, they are never, ever on schedule. 8 minutes theoretically works out to 4.5 hours, but when the golf course does ZERO to enforce any pace of play, they cannot reasonably book tee times that close together.

 

 

How do you have 8 minutes theoretically equaling 4.5 hours? I thought 13+ mins a hole was 4 hours?