Cheaters

[migolfke]

Playing with a guy who cheat

I often play with people who cheat--fudge a score, kick a ball, drop a ball, etc--and normally it does not bother me, but normallly they are not cheating when we are playing for money. Today, I was playing a match with a co-worker for nominal dollars and he continually cheated. He would lie about his score, kick his ball, drop a ball, etc.

On one par three, he said he found his ball when I was looking in the woods for where his ball appeared to enter. As we were walking off the green, I spotted a ball pin high about 20 yards off the green. I knew it was his, so I said "sweet, a new nike ball" and pocketed it.

I also saw him kick his ball a substantial distance on one hole, and had him lie about his score on atleast 4 other holes.

I didn't say anything to him about it and acted as if everything was cool. I ended up winning the match anyway, but walked away with a real sour taste in my mouth. I figured since he is not a good friend or anything, I will just not play with him anymore, as opposed to calling him out about it.

Would it have been better to call him out?

Vent over.

[Dr Rangelove]

Used to play with a guy we nick named "footwedge" or "fluffy". This guy would always kick the ball to a better lie or check to see if it was his ball then set it up with a better lie. Got real old real fast and just quit playing with him. There are way too many honest, good players out there and I'd just rather not go out and steam over some dishonest wanker.

[MattyO1984]

You should have definitely picked him up on. I don't mind when you are playing a casual game with friends and you drop the occasional ball if you lose one, mainly because it helps the round going and you don't hold up the groups behind you. However if you are playing with people that you don't really know or in a competition to play like the guy you played with is a poor reflection on him and generally I find the only way you can stop cr*p like that is to pick the guy up on it.

[larrybud]

How can someone lie about their score? I mean, you can easily go back and say "your first shot ended here, 2nd here, 3rd here.. etc".

 

This will show him that you're paying attention to his play, especially when you say "the 5th shot you kicked with your foot, which in match play is a loss of hole..."

[sleepy_augusto]

You did the right thing with your situation (no future rounds = no confrontation needed). Personally, I cannot tolerate that stuff and the confrontations have cost me a casual friend or two. The last time this happened to me with a friend, I just started taking as many stokes off my score as they did. Got my first hole in one that day, on paper. It was great when I handed over the card at the end, guy was speechless.

 

If you were to have lost, no way should you have paid.

 

"How about I don't mention your dishonest play, and you don't mention any wager that you falsely won?"

[zx3bully]

I hate when people cheat! A good friend of mine always cheats in the ways you speak of. I still always win, but he always talks about his score and how low it is! He never counts his drops! Last time we were out he shot his lowest score and he is braging how he finally broke 100! He actually shot more in the area of 140! I don't even think he realizes he cheats! When I call him on it he gets mad at me! After our round I love to get him all pissed off when I get on him for cheating and still beat him! He makes me pissed off during our round so I love to piss him off after the round is over! Some tee boxes he will hit 3 or 4 balls before he is happy with his drive! I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!!!

[e-dog9]

.......Some tee boxes he will hit 3 or 4 balls before he is happy with his drive! I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!!!

 

 

Screw that! After a persons "mulligan", I start walking. They can hit as many as they like, but I'll not stand there with them.

 

Bottom line is if you know someone is a cheater, or is not mature enough to take it when you call rules on them that they won't call on themselves, just don't play with them.

 

 

People who lie about big things are nuts, because there is so much on the line. People who lie about little things are nuts, because the little things don't ad up too much anyway.

[Bomb and Gouge]

I've seen guys cheat in tournaments.

 

I'd say 98% of "golfers" (non pros) cheat. 79.2% probably do it intentionally.

[zx3bully]

.......Some tee boxes he will hit 3 or 4 balls before he is happy with his drive! I FEEL YOUR PAIN!!!!!

 

 

Screw that! After a persons "mulligan", I start walking. They can hit as many as they like, but I'll not stand there with them.

 

Bottom line is if you know someone is a cheater, or is not mature enough to take it when you call rules on them that they won't call on themselves, just don't play with them.

 

 

People who lie about big things are nuts, because there is so much on the line. People who lie about little things are nuts, because the little things don't ad up too much anyway.

 

 

I hear what your saying! I don't play with him much anymore, maybe only 2-3 rounds a year.

[*sigh*]

I won't cheat if I am playing for something or in something. On a casual round I will play a 2nd ball or whatnot.

 

Golf is meant to be fun, and looking through the desert/woods all day isn't very fun :p

 

But when something is on the line, I can't stand when people cheat.. it's completely uncalled for. If you aren't good enough to play for a wager or such then don't make it in the first place.

[Rudders]

Worked with a guy and played golf with him several times. He wasn't that good, but couldn't stand anyone beating him at what he thought was the same skill level or just a bit better. One day, he hit a Titleist "1" (always played a "1") into the woods on a par four. I mean INTO THE WOODS. We're looking for it and can't find the ball. The next thing we do is walk away to play our shots. After reaching the green, he take three more, holes out and yells he made par. Jesus (or your religious person of choosing) couldn't have made par with an obvious lost ball, but we congratulate him and I go and retrieve the ball from the cup. Ralph then said he found the ball and hit his 3-wood about 250 to the front of the green where he chipped, 2-putted and made par. I handled him his ball, saying he hit the ball so hard, he changed the number from a "1" to a "3". No comment from Ralph. We (excluding Ralph) laughed.

 

Wonder how that story played out with St. Peter at the Gates. :clapping:

[onehitah]

Ya agree with all here. I can understand the guy shooting 140 and trying to fluff his score a little....he's just trying to fit in. No real threat from him. He'll generally start shaping up once he gets better. He'll learn, hopefully.

 

But the guy shooting in 90's, 80's, sometimes 70's. He should know better and is pretty much a ****** bag in my book- and sadly it's a clear reflection of his personality.

 

He's probably the same guy chucking his club across the cart path into the cart, exploding my beer! "Oh sorry bro, just havin a bad...." For f sakes, it's the second, freakin hole dude! Like to see this guys attitude when we up it to a dollar a hole. Geeez

 

K sorry to get off topic there. I feel better now. But like someone else said there's plenty others out there who are genuinely fun and honest to be out there with. Most us golfers are.

[e-dog9]

.......... I handled him his ball, saying he hit the ball so hard, he changed the number from a "1" to a "3". No comment from Ralph. We (excluding Ralph) laughed.

 

I think thats the best way to deal with it humor. Most people can take bad news better if they can laugh at it.

[Feddyvon]

I won't cheat if I am playing for something or in something. On a casual round I will play a 2nd ball or whatnot.

 

Golf is meant to be fun, and looking through the desert/woods all day isn't very fun :p

 

But when something is on the line, I can't stand when people cheat.. it's completely uncalled for. If you aren't good enough to play for a wager or such then don't make it in the first place.

 

That's pretty much my rule as well. A lot of the guys I play with just don't take the game as seriously as I do, and I won't fault them for it. I try to educate them on the penalties and what not, for the times that money is on the line, but I could care less if they shoot a 105 or a 125. It makes no difference to me, and a few foot wedges, and no-stroke drops makes the day more enoyable for them.

[Strategery]

If playing against a friend or co-worker for virtually nothing, who really cares about the outcome anyways? Think about the big picture. It's all about the fun.

 

Tourny conditions or playing against a head-case are different. No quarter.

[Yuck]

I played in a Charity scramble and discovered a player on my team cheating! You may ask how does one cheat in a scramble, since you all play the ball from the same place and you can improve your lie anyway. Well here is what happened. The first two holes were par fours and my approach shot was closest. I thought I had hit it 15 feet past the pin on the 1st, but when it was time to putt we were only 10 feet away. I just assumed it looked further because of the angle or something. On the second hole, again my shot was closest and again I felt we were putting from a closer distance than I hit it. On the third hole, one of the other players had hit it closest. When we approached the green, one of our team went to mark the ball, (not the person who had hit the shot) and as he was bending over to mark the ball, he flicked the coin about 5 feet closer to the hole. At this point I finally realized what was going on and went over and picked up the ball marker and said "you dropped the ball mark, I think it was about here". I then replaced the ball and spent the rest of the round trying to tank the team to undo the ill gotten birdies on the first two holes. I refused to play in any team events with that individual from that point on.

[atlanta golfer]

I'm pretty flexible with people when they are doing small things like removing sticks from around the ball in the rough. I don't stand there and look at the ball, waiting for it to move one quarter inch so I can get an advantage over them with a penalty stroke. Or when they take a drop out of a hazard, I don't check to make sure it is only two club lengths and not nearer the hole when they are hitting a 5 iron. Who cares on these types of things which don't give an advantage. But when you are talking about big things like the # of strokes, or purposely moving your ball to a better lie, that is really off kilter. This would tell me something about that person's character when they are doing things other than golf.

[InTheHole]

Depending on the situation, your relationship to the person involved, how deep your pockets are, and how much is at stake, another option is to make a point.....

 

Reach in your pocket, take out whatever your share of the bet is, hand it to your opponent, and say something like, "You obviously will do anything to win this money, including cheat. Take it, it's yours."

 

Then walk off the course.

 

An expensive point, to be sure. It will most likely cost you a friend and playing partner. But with friends that cheat, who needs enemies?

[CarloGolfer]

Call him out then give him the slip. Cheaters should be shamed.

 

This sums it up for me. First, a cheater should be given a chance to admit fault. If they protest, they deserved to be shamed.

 

The only thing worse than a cheater, is a person who renegs on a bet.

[777twist]

I'm pretty flexible with people when they are doing small things like removing sticks from around the ball in the rough. I don't stand there and look at the ball, waiting for it to move one quarter inch so I can get an advantage over them with a penalty stroke. Or when they take a drop out of a hazard, I don't check to make sure it is only two club lengths and not nearer the hole when they are hitting a 5 iron. Who cares on these types of things which don't give an advantage. But when you are talking about big things like the # of strokes, or purposely moving your ball to a better lie, that is really off kilter. This would tell me something about that person's character when they are doing things other than golf.

 

 

This is the best answer I read on this topic. I think AG has it right.

 

One thing these "cheaters" don't understand though is when it comes to money, we are going to go by the rules and you will never win. Every single person I play with cheats...every single person I have been paired with on a course CHEATS...some do it because they just don't know the rules, others because they are just out there to have fun and don't want to apply the rules 100% and others just plain cheat.

 

BTW, I love this:

 

I'd say 98% of "golfers" (non pros) cheat. 79.2% probably do it intentionally.

 

The .2% is what really cracks me up, B&G really did his homework!

 

Here's the thing with me... I certainly don't mind someone quasi tracking their score. Meaning, they do take some liberties with regards to drops and lie. But DAMN, put a "X" or something to indicate this isn't a true score. That's what I do. I put the score I got, or whould have got with penalties and then put an "X" so I know not to count this card toward my handicap.

 

The cheaters I hate the most are the ones like this one guy I play with (which BTW, he's in law enforcement, so you would think rules would be his thing, but he's a cheating machine) who foot-wedges, drops near lost ball/OB locations, changes ball out to putt, etc... and then at the end of the round, he's all pissy about shooting a 112. MAN, HE WOULD HAVE HAD A 124 if he counted all his strokes, and even then he still would have received an "X" for those illegal drops on Lost/OB balls. My point being, I just hate when these guys asks what everyone got at the end of the round and are like yeah, I beat you. PAAAALEASE!

[Tinuke]

Here's two quandries;

 

1) As I begin to step up my game (3.9 handi) I have to really concentrate hard and I believe that part of golf is ettiqette, meaning respecting your opponents and displaying good sportsmanship. We all deal with the occational idiot. How do you maintain your head. I need help here.

 

2) In friendly games, say with your core group, what do you do if they call an obscure rule, such as you ball moving at address on the green in heavy wind?

 

I don't want to shut out my buds but, I am at that turning point in my game and I need you help with this mental part. THX

[CarloGolfer]

Here's two quandries;

 

1) As I begin to step up my game (3.9 handi) I have to really concentrate hard and I believe that part of golf is ettiqette, meaning respecting your opponents and displaying good sportsmanship. We all deal with the occational idiot. How do you maintain your head. I need help here.

 

Make a mental note of the offense. Discuss it after the round like a gentlemen.

 

Remember, it's on them , not you. You can't control what other people are going to do.

 

2) In friendly games, say with your core group, what do you do if they call an obscure rule, such as you ball moving at address on the green in heavy wind?

 

Well, rules are rules, regardless of how obscure you think they are. If you're going to play by the official USGA rules, I suggest you buy a rule book and keep it in your bag. (If you haven't already) http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/rules.html

 

If it's not a club event or locally sanctioned event, don't sweat the details until after the round.

 

I don't want to shut out my buds but, I am at that turning point in my game and I need you help with this mental part. THX

 

Why would you be shutting out your buds? It's just golf.

[AcesAZ]

I hate cheaters as well. You have to know the rules to play this game.

 

Although I may have cheated myself once. I was playing in a tournament and was over a green and on a slope with my ball resting next to a stick. As I took my stance while looking at the hole I stepped on the stick and when I looked down the stick was no longer next to the ball. I think the ball may have moved but I do not know for sure. My playing competitors did not see either. So I just played it and never said anything. Should I have called a penalty on myself?

[777twist]

I hate cheaters as well. You have to know the rules to play this game.

 

Although I may have cheated myself once. I was playing in a tournament and was over a green and on a slope with my ball resting next to a stick. As I took my stance while looking at the hole I stepped on the stick and when I looked down the stick was no longer next to the ball. I think the ball may have moved but I do not know for sure. My playing competitors did not see either. So I just played it and never said anything. Should I have called a penalty on myself?

 

 

This may be akin to foot-wedging while looking away... But i'm not sure. I'm actually interested in the answer as well.

 

Part 2 of this question for me would be... I thought I read that a ball is only considered to be moved if it's in a different place. In other words, if the ball occelates (man, that cannot be the way you spell that) but ends up in the same spot, it's hasn't moved. Is that true? Like, if I ground my club in the grass and the ball rocks backwards but then I lift my club and it returns, is that a penalty? I try not to ground when I think the ball will move, but I was never sure of how this rule is applied.

[devlbasher]

I hate cheaters as well. You have to know the rules to play this game.

 

Although I may have cheated myself once. I was playing in a tournament and was over a green and on a slope with my ball resting next to a stick. As I took my stance while looking at the hole I stepped on the stick and when I looked down the stick was no longer next to the ball. I think the ball may have moved but I do not know for sure. My playing competitors did not see either. So I just played it and never said anything. Should I have called a penalty on myself?

 

 

This may be akin to foot-wedging while looking away... But i'm not sure. I'm actually interested in the answer as well.

 

Part 2 of this question for me would be... I thought I read that a ball is only considered to be moved if it's in a different place. In other words, if the ball occelates (man, that cannot be the way you spell that) but ends up in the same spot, it's hasn't moved. Is that true? Like, if I ground my club in the grass and the ball rocks backwards but then I lift my club and it returns, is that a penalty? I try not to ground when I think the ball will move, but I was never sure of how this rule is applied.

 

First of all, I haven't looked it up, but I think if you don't know that the ball moved, it wouldn't be a penalty. Just because the stick was touching the ball DOES NOT mean that the ball was resting on the stick. More often than not, if the stick moves, the ball does, but its not for certain. I'm assuming you don't have to call the penalty unless you know it happened.

 

Second, if the ball oscillates back to the same position, it is deemed to have not moved. No penalty. Watched a guy cheat at the Masters claiming it had oscillated when it DEEEEEEEEEEFINITELY had moved...so thats the rule, but you still have to be the one to enforce it...unlike that guy.

[jjj912]

I hate cheaters as well. You have to know the rules to play this game.

 

Although I may have cheated myself once. I was playing in a tournament and was over a green and on a slope with my ball resting next to a stick. As I took my stance while looking at the hole I stepped on the stick and when I looked down the stick was no longer next to the ball. I think the ball may have moved but I do not know for sure. My playing competitors did not see either. So I just played it and never said anything. Should I have called a penalty on myself?

 

Typically, any doubt is resolved against the player. So, you should have taken a one stroke penalty and returned the ball to its original spot.

[Stankleberry]

You should have said something the first time you saw him kick the ball. "You know, that's not legal. Have you seen me kicking balls?" Maybe he didn't know that that's not cool.

[t.bahama]

The level of cheating I tolerate depends on how much the person I'm playing with sucks. If I know that they are not going to break 100, please by all means,.. kick it, lift it, throw it, anything to get him or her going a bit faster. If he or she can play then I call them on it.

 

The problem arrises, all to often, when the before mentioned wants to "play" and won't take a foot wedge and the latter finds him or herself 4 back and try moving the ball with everyting besides thier club.

 

:clapping:

[xan_user]

My 00.2% worth

Cheaters should not be tolerated, but IMO people that don't call cheaters on the fact are nearly as bad. Your just enabling them to do it more. You need not be confrontational, but something should be said if it bothers you.

 

Its no wonder general accountability has all but disappeared from western culture.

 

Maybe the cheater won't change, but I think you should at least give him the opportunity to mend his ways.

[Skaffa77]

Sorry dude...I don't think I could have just held my breathe when there was something on the line. I would have called him out on it especially if you found his ball. Easily would have push him on it and then brought up the fact that money was on the line and that requires fair play. If it's a casual weekend round...fine...you worry about your own score...I don't care if you think you shot better than you really did.

 

I play with a lot of folks who don't "play by the rules"...most of it is innocent (ignorant of the rules) and some of it is intentional (they want to just "play for fun"). The biggest infractions I see (again mostly innocent and I'd don't say much):

• Winter rules (improving lie)
  
• Improving position (moving it from behind a tree or other obstacle)
  
• OB or Lost Ball - dropping ball where ball went OB
  
• improper procedure when moving your marker on the green - TOO many people neglect to mark the ball first and then move the marker
  
• Mulligans or freebies on the first tee
  
• Practice strokes in a sand trap
  
• Grounding the club in a hazard
  
• Using "Line of Flight into a Hazard" mentality for a drop...