Hit into at private club

[frozen_rope]

Private clubs are notorious for bad etiquette on the golf course, and poor manners off the course.
Playing through without much warning, using the next tee box while playing partners are still on the previous green, hitting into the forward group, multiple mulligans etc... are typical private club member behavior. Off the course berating pro shop and grill room staff , loud boorish talk etc... is common member behavior. Many people with money feel like they do not need to observe goof course etiquette or proper manners off the course. Of course this is a generalization, but I notice better manners and etiquette at a public course setting than I do within a private club.
I would not worry about messing with the ball of the offender who hit into you, it's likely that type thing happens every time the member is on the course.

[quote name='roll - gybe' post='1834017' date='Jul 21 2009, 01:32 PM']Ok, I'm a guest. Playing with a member - someone I am close to (not a business relationship). There is another guest with us - also in the same situation.

On an uphill par 5, I am left with 85 yards after scrambling back from an ugly tee shot. I am only a few strokes over par, haven't been out of place all day, and have yet to have the guys behind me within range. (In fact the first I heard of them was the previous hole. As I was putting for birdie on a par 4 one left the brake off on the tee box and beep beep beep the cart actually got away from him. First time I have seen that...)

I hit my 85 yard shot and I hear wizz, clunk. A ball lands 3 feet in front of me. The guy was in the fairway with a wood (not a 7i) in his hand.

I don't think he intended to plug me. However, I do think his brain was in outer space. I didn't take offense, but I did think I was on the wrong end of a dangerous situation.

...so I reached down and teed his ball up...

Thought I would just make him aware of his surroundings.

When he got up there he had a laugh. He said something like, "how could my ball land on a tee, what are the odds?"

I realized that he was really in outer space, so I pointed to myself while I stood on the next tee. I mean, wake up man. I calmly said "You almost hit me, I was right where you are standing."

He apologized, and I thought I had found a harmless way to wake the guy up. I mean, hitting a 3 wood on a par 5 when people aren't even on the green and not knowing where the ball landed is pretty damn spacy...

So the other guest with me, looks at me and says something about which I didn't even think. The guy is a member.

Oh my god.

He is a member. Of course, he should plug all the non-members.

But then, my friend pointed out that my behavior may reflect poorly on our host at this nice club. True enough. So I apologized to our host. He was nice and told me that if he were still a young man like me, there would have been hell to pay.

Thoughts?[/quote]

[randomhero1090]

Nothing wrong with what you did. I don't care if you are a member, non-member, space cadet or pornstar. If you are riding, take that extra 30 seconds to drive up and check out the area before hitting. I play a course with several blind spots and its pisses me off that NOBODY takes the time to take a peek before hitting.

The last time (yes, more than once) I was hit, I was in the opposite fairway and didn't hear a soul yell "4". I mean, it one-hopped and hit me in the leg, but still. I picked up the ball and drove it to the man who hit me. He could CLEARLY see me from his tee box. I asked him why he didn't yell "4" and his reponse.... "I didn't think it would actually hit you, just give you a little scare." I wanted to punch the guy in the face. Instead, and I will paraphrase, I told him that if he or one of his golf balls comes within 100 yards of me, that several of his clubs would have to be surgically removed from his rectum.

So, I probably didn't handle it well. The guy actually came up to me after the round in the bar with 2 beers in hand. He apologized for hitting me AND his comment. I apologized for being a dick. Water under the bridge. I know at private clubs everyone takes everything so personal and things like this drag on for years.

[randomhero1090]

BTW..... Think twice about pissing someone off on the golf course, even if you are a member....

Remember that scene from "Falling Down" with Michael Douglas......

[Obsessotron]

I am a member at an exclusive private club and believe me, members are just as capable of being ignorant hackers as non members. Some members at my club irritate me because they feel like they should never, ever wait for even a moment because it is a private club which is wrong. For all that guy knew, you were a fellow member or a relative of a club owner.

You did the right thing to tee it up and mention it because that person put your life at risk regardless of either of your member status.

[larrybud]

Everyone has accidentally hit into someone at one time or another. Some of us may have even had lockjaw and didn't yell. It happens sometimes.

To think that this guy's thought process was "Well, the guy I might hit isn't a member, so I'll swing away" is ridiculous. It's not like he hit into you multiple times. He just made a mistake. He apologized.

[Mainlinegolfer]

I certainly don't always agree with PepperTurbo; however; his posts in this thread are spot on, as far as I am concerned.

I am a member of what most would consider a "high-end" private club and have been a guest at many of the "best" clubs around the world (Pine Valley, Merion, Cypress Point, for example). First, the likelihood of slow play at a private club is much less compared to public/resort courses-- members are usually just avid golfers (even if wealthy or a senior executive), play is lighter, and members generally understand golf etiquette (and hate slow play) more than most. Secondly, the breech of etiquette (and hazard) involved with intentionally hitting into someone is less likely because, as I said, slow play by members and guests is actively discouraged, and, secondly, members at these clubs know you just don't vent your frustration that way. If a member's (or his guest's) slow play is a problem, it is simply mentioned, member to member, either during the round or later to the pro or a golf committee/board member and "handled" in a civilized manner.

Though we all share an interest in the game of golf on Golfwrx, we obviously have different personal circumstances and perspectives. You fellows may do what you want at your courses, but at my club, it would be inconceivable for a guest of mine to directly react to a member about what was most likely an inadvertent mistake. And even if it weren't inadvertent, I would expect my guest to tell me what happened and I would discuss the matter with the other member myself, when appropriate. If his reaction indicated he didn't "get it", I would then take it up with the appropriate person (golf committee chairman or board member). Similarly, if I were a guest at another club, I would simply mention the incident to my host and let him handle it.

A macho confrontation or strutting around like a rooster in a barnyard with indignant "golf rage" is not appropriate behavior for a mature adult (or kid) who would like to be invited to a "better" private club, and such behavior would be an embarrassment to the host. I expect some of you don't agree and/or don't care, but if you do have aspirations to play at a great club (as a guest or member), expect to act like a gentleman. Sorry, but that's the way it is. If you don't like it, there are many other golf courses to play.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='roll - gybe' post='1836158' date='Jul 22 2009, 07:33 AM'][quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1835975' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:55 AM']There are many reasons people don't become members of private clubs; the obvious is money, the second is they lack the social skills; and don't know how to handle conflict. [/quote]


Funny, but I never said I wasn't a member somewhere else. Also, to get denied sponsorship/membership, you generally have to have some real problems unless we are talking PV and similar, where your business enemies can shut you down. I can't really think of many clubs that will (lame restrictions aside) deny someone with the adequate amount of money a membership. A few, but not many.

Also, while it is a different swimming pool than the muni track, members at private clubs can have some pretty poor social skills themselves sometimes.

Hopefully that comment was a joke.
[/quote]

You're making an assumption regarding sponsorship or membership. I could go on but when you've chaired membership for three years, and been on the BOD like I have what many want to believe isn’t always what happens.

Whether you stated your club status or not, is immaterial. I based my response on your reaction and that members don’t "purposely" hit into groups in front; it's typically an accident; not as much so on public courses; and shot pattern indicates nothing. I play to almost scratch and have busted a few unexpected shots that landed way to near players in front of me.

The way I read your post it sounded as though you assumed the worst of his intentions and felt the need to react which lead me to social skills; if that is wrong, my apologies. I just measured what was written and know people don’t generally "assume" those playing behind hit into them on purpose; they assume it was a mistake. That said, there are idiots that think hitting into a slow playing group upfront helps speed play; course those idiots lack social skills and are commonly found on public courses. Doing that at a private club could result in sanctions even expulsion if it's done to often.

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='Mainlinegolfer' post='1836324' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:45 AM']I certainly don't always agree with PepperTurbo; however; his posts in this thread are spot on, as far as I am concerned.

I am a member of what most would consider a "high-end" private club and have been a guest at many of the "best" clubs around the world (Pine Valley, Merion, Cypress Point, for example). First, the likelihood of slow play at a private club is much less compared to public/resort courses-- members are usually just avid golfers (even if wealthy or a senior executive), play is lighter, and members generally understand golf etiquette (and hate slow play) more than most. Secondly, the breech of etiquette (and hazard) involved with intentionally hitting into someone is less likely because, as I said, slow play by members and guests is actively discouraged, and, secondly, members at these clubs know you just don't vent your frustration that way. If a member's (or his guest's) slow play is a problem, it is simply mentioned, member to member, either during the round or later to the pro or a golf committee/board member and "handled" in a civilized manner.

Though we all share an interest in the game of golf on Golfwrx, we obviously have different personal circumstances and perspectives. You fellows may do what you want at your courses, but at my club, it would be inconceivable for a guest of mine to directly react to a member about what was most likely an inadvertent mistake. And even if it weren't inadvertent, I would expect my guest to tell me what happened and I would discuss the matter with the other member myself, when appropriate. If his reaction indicated he didn't "get it", I would then take it up with the appropriate person (golf committee chairman or board member). Similarly, if I were a guest at another club, I would simply mention the incident to my host and let him handle it.

A macho confrontation or strutting around like a rooster in a barnyard with indignant "golf rage" is not appropriate behavior for a mature adult (or kid) who would like to be invited to a "better" private club, and such behavior would be an embarrassment to the host. I expect some of you don't agree and/or don't care, but if you do have aspirations to play at a great club (as a guest or member), expect to act like a gentleman. Sorry, but that's the way it is. If you don't like it, there are many other golf courses to play.[/quote]

After I responded I read your post.. we might not agree on somethings (don't know), but we surely agree on behavior in this situation. I especially liked the words "macho", "rooster" and "barnyard"; and "that's the way it is. You express yourself well too.

[FAbb]

Unless obviously done on purpose, I give somebody the benefit of the doubt as far as hitting into me once goes. If it was blatant or done on more than one occasion I would just simply ask the group to be more cautious regardless of whether we're talking about a muni track or if I was a guest at a high end club. To hit into somebody intentionally is not acceptable. I'm not a member at any club nor am I familiar with these unwritten conduct rules. I can say though that putting myself in the shoes of the member who was confronted, I would have a lot more respect for the guest who addressed the issue with me directly than if he had his host talk to me about it at a later time. Is it such bad conduct that a guest address an issue with a member directly? Are you that superior that how dare a guest bring up a simple issue of golf etiquette with you directly? This is assuming that the guest was civil and reasonable of course.

[roll - gybe]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1836463' date='Jul 22 2009, 12:50 PM']The way I read your post it sounded as though you assumed the worst of his intentions[/quote]


Opposite of this. I assumed the best of his intentions, which led me to believe he was playing dangerously and didn't know it.
When it was finally brought to his attention, he said he was sorry. Like I said the man was in outer space. I hope he doesn't drive a car like this!

To address the rooster or whatever comment, the situation did not involve anyone's ire, or anything more than a whisper.
I have also been the recipient of a national sportsmanship award in another sport, so I'm not a total crackpot! The situation really boiled down to me handling it at the time, or having my host handle it at some later point in time.

The wider reprocussions didn't cross my mind at the time. What did was making this guy aware of his surroundings. Who knows what he might have done next. I mean the guy lost his cart on the previous hole - I have never seen that before.

If handling it myself calmly and not going through a member is machismo, then I think that is a little bit of machismo on the member's part. Personally as a host, I don't seek to dominate my guests. However, I appreciate the comments regarding how other hosts would have wanted the situation handled. It helps add more possibilities to the resolution.

I think we are clearly seeing two sets of views on this situation though.

[Pepperturbo]

Two sets of views is exactly right; made abundantly clear by your usage of the words "dominate my guests".

[roll - gybe]

Hey Pepper - I have respectfully listened to your view. Please don't pick me apart.
Thanks

[stage1350]

I have found it goes both ways at private clubs. Around here, there are "player's clubs" and "country clubs." The players clubs have outstanding golf. The pace of play is quick and rarely gets bunched up. Golfers are there to play golf and all appreciate others who know how to keep pace.

Then there's the clubs where people want to be a member because it's "exclusive." The course is nice, but rarely used. More time is spent in the dining room than on the course. The players are generally of a lesser caliber golf-wise. It's a shame because some of the courses are classics.

Members, like society, come in all shapes and sizes. Some are very courteous. Others want to flaunt their money and be pompous a$$holes. The latter don't care if they hit into you, whether you are a member or not. Their entitlement complex is pathetic and is only superceded by their need to pull the "do you know who I am" card.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1835975' date='Jul 22 2009, 08:55 AM']There are many reasons people don't become members of private clubs; the obvious is money, the second is they lack the social skills; and don't know how to handle conflict. [/quote]

This is very true. At my club, where most of us have known each other and our families for years, members would never stoop so low as to handle conflict with a public confrontation. They would instead create a nickname that suits the miscreants physical appearance and then spread rumors that they are bankrupt.

Whenever I am the victim of being hit into, and it happens pretty often, I don't even bother turning around since I will just see a group of septuagenarians who never saw me to begin with. No offense to those in their 70s, I look forward to hitting balls into
people if I am lucky enough to make it as far as you have.

[roll - gybe]

Ha, yeah, when a fossil hits into me, I couldn't care. The ball isn't going to hurt!

At my club, there are some little issues that people have been stewing over for almost a generation at this point. It's crazy, but I don't realize how bad it is until I see it objectively at another club. ...This at a players-variety club.

It is a level of insanity.

So maybe I got involved in the insanity. But then firing 3-woods around where there are people is another thing.

A year ago, I watched a ball whizz right past my dad's head. It scared the hell out of me, because he could have a heart attack or a stroke or something. He's getting older, and he didn't even notice. He should have been furious, but he didn't see or hear it. So, I do feel like I have some responsibility out there being a young guy with good eyes and ears.

[CosmosMpower]

Some people are just clueless. I was playing a quick 18 after work at a Muni and I swear all the village idiots were out with me. I was in the fairway on the opposite side of a small creek when someone on the other side tee'd off and whizzed a ball 45* right (huge slice) and nearly hit me in the shoulder. As I got close I asked why the hell they didn't call FORE and he just said, sorry and shrugged like it was no big deal.

The shot was clearly way offline from the get go and probably went 160 yards straight to the right. I thought about kicking the ball into the creek but just kept going. There was also a 5 some with a bunch of hacks and a 80 year old man teeing off from the blues (6,705 yds) Each par 4/5 it took 3 strokes to get past the ladies tee box.

[Sawgrass]

[quote name='roll - gybe' post='1838564' date='Jul 23 2009, 10:09 AM']Ha, yeah, when a fossil hits into me, I couldn't care. The ball isn't going to hurt!

. . . So, I do feel like I have some responsibility out there being a young guy with good eyes and ears.[/quote]

Great. A self-appointed golf cop. Somewhat disrespectful of his elders. You really have no idea where the "rooster or whatever comment" came from?

[Pepperturbo]

Sawgrass, for all intents and purposes at almost 60 I am a fossil to most youngsters today, and I like it. Sad part is even if a fossil whips them from the back tee's or whips’ them physically disrespectful people almost never learn.

[roll - gybe]

Wow, now you guys are getting a little crazy. Golf cop. Whatever. Let's just have anarchy. (that is sarcasm) Anyone who says anything is a golf cop.

When it comes to my dad who has had a heart attack, a stoke, 2 heart valves replaced getting hit into. Yeah, I can make assumptions about what he does and doesn't notice around him and what will hurt him. That's not really disrespectful.

And really if a 75 year old hits me with a shot, I'm really not worried about my organs. I am more worried when a full-strength person whacks the ball at 120 mph. My original statement was directed at two comments about how I didn't actually get hit or hurt. If you are capable of hitting good hard shots, well that is great for you.

I may be young, but I'm not a kid. I'm in my mid-30s... I run a company... I'm not the kid you seem to be prejudiced against. Sorry you want to make a big deal about every funny word I use like "fossil". I bet you guys have some funny words for young kids that you use too.

I am signing out guys now that Pepper is claiming that he takes physical violence against disrespectful people. What are you a member of the 60 year old Wu Tang Clan? (humor) That is some pretty lame boasting though, and I bet you haven't laid a hand on anyone in a long time. If you have you are a real wack job, man, posting in a golf etiquite forum and getting in fights with people you don't like. Otherwise you are just talking garbage.

My question was answered on page one. I am out.

[TKing]

roll-gybe, What kind of boat do you sail? I'm a member of the original Laser generation and have raced everything from sinker sailboards, Olympic classes, catamarrans, to big boats.

[roll - gybe]

Almost anything I can get in. Logged a lot of time in Lasers and collegiate classes, 24s, 22s, V15s. Some scows, 49ers, big boats. I kinda want to get into boards for fun.
Tough to dedicate the right amount of time to it now that I'm living 2 hours from the water.

So you are one of the guys who had the original Elvstom sail on you laser? Wooden boards... 3:1 vang, 1:1 outhaul. Had to be a strongman then!

[Pepperturbo]

[quote name='roll - gybe' post='1839071' date='Jul 23 2009, 11:12 AM']Wow, now you guys are getting a little crazy. Golf cop. Whatever. Let's just have anarchy. (that is sarcasm) Anyone who says anything is a golf cop.

When it comes to my dad who has had a heart attack, a stoke, 2 heart valves replaced getting hit into. Yeah, I can make assumptions about what he does and doesn't notice around him and what will hurt him. That's not really disrespectful.

And really if a 75 year old hits me with a shot, I'm really not worried about my organs. I am more worried when a full-strength person whacks the ball at 120 mph. My original statement was directed at two comments about how I didn't actually get hit or hurt. If you are capable of hitting good hard shots, well that is great for you.

I may be young, but I'm not a kid. I'm in my mid-30s... I run a company... I'm not the kid you seem to be prejudiced against. Sorry you want to make a big deal about every funny word I use like "fossil". I bet you guys have some funny words for young kids that you use too.

I am signing out guys now that Pepper is claiming that he takes physical violence against disrespectful people. What are you a member of the 60 year old Wu Tang Clan? (humor) That is some pretty lame boasting though, and I bet you haven't laid a hand on anyone in a long time. If you have you are a real wack job, man, posting in a golf etiquite forum and getting in fights with people you don't like. Otherwise you are just talking garbage.

My question was answered on page one. I am out.[/quote]

Pepper did not CLAIM he takes physical violence against disrespectful people. I said "even if"... but if you choose to ignore my greater intention theres nothing much to say regarding your comprehension skills, and name calling... FYI some of us inspite of our age still stay in shape, mine is training with x-SOG guys; if you know what that means. You're over the top with your implications too. I wouldn't raise a hand to anyone anywhere without serious provocation just because of my skills; I'll leave it there.

[stage1350]

This is getting good when people start referring to themselves in the 3rd person.

 

[JeffreySpicoli]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1839031' date='Jul 23 2009, 01:52 PM']Sawgrass, for all intents and purposes at almost 60 I am a fossil to most youngsters today, and I like it. Sad part is even if a fossil whips them from the back tee's or whips’ them physically disrespectful people almost never learn.[/quote]

Pepper, an unusually large percentage of your posts include some combination of: (1) your age of 59, (2) your handicap index of ~1.2, (3) that you or someone your know thinks that you're quite physically fit, and (4) the country club committees that you've been on.

I can't imagine that this would have anything to do with narcissism.

[roll - gybe]

Watching Pepper self-implode... funny...

[Ronzo]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1839346' date='Jul 23 2009, 04:44 PM']Pepper did not CLAIM he takes physical violence against disrespectful people. I said "even if"... but if you choose to ignore my greater intention theres nothing much to say regarding your comprehension skills, and name calling... FYI some of us inspite of our age still stay in shape, mine is training with x-SOG guys; if you know what that means. You're over the top with your implications too. I wouldn't raise a hand to anyone anywhere without serious provocation just because of my skills; I'll leave it there.[/quote]

Goodness! Is there [i][b]nothing[/b][/i] you can't do, or haven't done???


Please!

[kekoa]

From time to time, I also get to play at a pretty exclusive club here in california. Just because the guy who hit into you is a member, doesn't make him god. I mean, a golf ball can literally kill you.

IF a member did this to anyone in our group, it wouldn't be pretty. The member I play with is a fairly young guy and does not hold back in these situations.

I think you handled it ok. Hopefully nobody took it the wrong way. The member just needs to be more aware of his surrounds before hitting up.

[EMKelly]

How about everyone tries to stay on topic here...

In my opinion, I wouldn't of done anything. One time, not an issue for me. If it happens multiple times, I will let the member know and if they are not a complete moron, I am sure they will already be well aware of the situation.

When you are a guest at a club, you do not act out of line or do anything that could reflect poorly upon the member to either the individual whom accidently hit into you or the other members in the vacinity. If a problem needs to be discussed and/or resolved, allow the member to do so. Everyone is told not to let others fight their battles for them but this is different when you are putting others reputation on the line for an incident that is in no way a big deal.

Maturity, social skills and intelligence lack in all forms of life. Some get it, some don't. It's what makes the world go 'round.

Regards,
Eric

[Pepperturbo]

Sorry if speaking from life experience, NOT ideals or conjecture annoys some people; not everybody spends their lifetime the way some of you have. I grew up in a generation where actual experience, accomplishment and respectful behavior holds far greater value then rude behavior and conjecture.

[Ronzo]

[quote name='Pepperturbo' post='1839503' date='Jul 23 2009, 06:03 PM']Sorry if speaking from life experience, NOT ideals or conjecture annoys some people; not everybody spends their lifetime the way some of you have. I grew up in a generation where actual experience, accomplishment and respectful behavior holds far greater value then rude behavior and conjecture.[/quote]

Interesting. I grew up at about the same time you did; I'm 57. In MY experience, people who have the experiences you claim to have tend not to boast about them.

Then again, I'm not from the midwest, so perhaps that explains it.

If you ever heard the joke about the older immigrant lady who listened to the "society matron" talk about the jewelry her husband bought her, where she went in Europe on her vacation, and how powerful her husband and family were in the higher society echelon, perhaps you'll understand what I mean when I say, "That's nice." I went to "Charm School", just as the immigrant lady did.