Ok, I know I'm going to get hammered for this

[derekbeaudry]

Ive never bought anything from a so called big box store but the local golf shop in my town has a lot of good stuff and are knowledgeable about golf. I have been purcahsing from them since I started golfing so they know me very well and treat me great.

I do purchase quite a bit of stuff online if I am looking for a used club because it is very hard to find what you are looking for used but if I buy new clubs I always buy them from my local shop. They give me a little crap when I buy something somewhere else but they understand and know that when i wanna buy new I wont shop anywhere else.

[307golf]

For business owners:

You must work to avoid becoming a 'commodity'. If you don't offer something special (knowledge, service, etc.) then you will be treated as a commodity, and commodities are bought/sold at the lowest market value...

Work to develop the perception of quality, and refuse to be treated differently. This is the biggest marketing challenge of the 'internet' economy IMO. You must create the perception of value in what you do.

Personally:

I personally find it a bit 'sleazy' to test in someone's store without the honest intention of buying it there if you like it, UNLESS, you are paying them for the testing. That's my personal view.

[lakebuff]

[quote name='slickpitt' date='21 February 2010 - 09:16 PM' timestamp='1266804988' post='2268089']
Well I'm a firm believer that retail stores could sell equipment for less than full retail and increase their sales by a large margin. Simply because of what you listed above, if people were only saving 5 or 10% going to ebay a lot would probably just go ahead and pick up the club at the retailer. But when you can save a significant amount, like 30-50% it makes it worth-while not to buy from the retailer.
[/quote]

Sorry that isn't how it works. All the major OEM's set the price on the new equipment and the retailer must follow it or else they will not have access to that manufaturers equipmnet anymore. I found this out at a mom and pop store. I asked them why they didn't carry any ping stuff. They told me they mistakingly sold some stuff lower than the manufaturer would allow and Ping found out and won't supply them with equipment anymore. You can b**** abou their used prices if you want but they can't do anything on their new club prices.

[mantan]

I agree with the OP. I think the challenge is a lot of people want Nordstrom service (lots of demo equipment, launch monitors, knowledgeable employees etc.) but want to buy at Walmart prices.

Even if it's your hard earned money, that big box invested 'their hard earned money' in the inventory, fitting equipment, brick and mortar site. All of that stuff costs money. And that overhead is a large part of the price difference between that and the online alternatives. I think people justify the decision by demonizing the big box. And they are an easy target in many ways. But the pure economics of it is that it costs money to run that model. Using their facilities/resources to make a club buying decision and then not buying from them is bad form. Eventually it'll encourage a model where there are fewer and fewer places to demo clubs which is bad for all of us.

Ironically, it's the same pattern that killed the small community golf store. Big boxes came in and used their competitive advantage of buying power and vast selection to undercut the small stores. Now the online market is doing the same thing to big boxes.

While we can all just say that's the free market at work....if the online market becomes the primary place to buy from, our choices as consumers to demo and get fit are going to go away. We'll win the price war...but at what cost?

[ShankingShanks]

A few months ago our local garage went belly up, so now i have to drive 9 miles to get petrol and i usually never drive more than 2 miles a trip, now all the locals are complaining about it closing and THEY are the ones who put 3 quid in then drive to Asda and fill up there (BTW i told them exactly what i thought of them ).........Now my point is i support my local pro shop as much as i can because i hate the thought of having to travel 30 miles to American golf, who are no cheaper anyway or having to order online to find that company X's extra large shirt is actually extra large for tiny people or that a size nine shoe is the same size as my sisters size 4 (Yes Nike i mean you)........Steve

 

 

[Redbird]

I'll admit that I just did this. I went in to GG and hit the snot out of the AP1's with every shaft I could just. Their up charge on the KBS tour's was $30/per, plus tax (10.25%). I ordered them on TGW since there was no tax and the up charge on the KBS was $12/per club. Through my local GG my irons would have cost $1,035. On TGW they cost me $796, that savings got me a new Fast 10 3wood.

[Bobbers]

Early in my life I was a cook at McDonald's, I made minimum wage. I did know how to cook, and if you came in and wanted it well done with extra ketchup and no mustard, that's what you got, as quickly as it could be made. Nothing special about it, I took pride then, as I do now, in what I did, REGARDLESS of what I was paid.

No offense, but the idea that "they'd know more if they didn't work for minimum wage" smacks, to me at least, of an entitled, "this work is beneath me so I refuse to do it well" approach to work that I find both corrosive and confusing.

Ok, I'll pay you $2 per hour more than minimum wage, will that be enough? Or if I really want you to care do I have to add $3 per hour? How about: show me you care by investing yourself a bit in your work and THEN I'll pay you more based on your ability to actually DO the job instead of just showing up to it? Sorry, but the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way around. Seriously, how mahy of you expect to get a big raise and THEN decide to work up to your potential? Rant off.

[golf9596]

I will tell you that I have been to a driver fitting and paid for the service. No I haven't purchased from the retail outlet or pro shop, but I use one of our site sponsor due to their great service. I think a lot of people on this site have paid for their fittings. That being said, people will use the resources available to help them and justify why. The retailer knows not every customer who comes in will buy, but w/good customer service the customer will have confidence in the retailer and use them more often. I often find I know more about the product and fitting options than the sales staff. That's why I use our sponsors.

[NGstaff]

We offer custom fittings. A Golf Reward program. Accept trades. Work with customers on pricing. Have pretty good knowledge with clubs and such. Pretty darn good customer service. Full service shop...regripping, reshafting, bending.

[hardten]

[quote name='cschorer1979' date='21 February 2010 - 07:45 PM' timestamp='1266799509' post='2267841']
First off, I have to say this website is fantastic! Just joined a few days ago and it is without a doubt the top golf talk site on the web.

Second, over the last few days of reading posts I have noticed several people who go to retail golf shops to try the latest equipment. They also seem to get their numbers from the store launch monitor and THEN go purchase the club on ebay. Now I am not saying everyone does this, but it seems that there is a large percentage of people on this board who do.

My question is, why do people do this? I totally understand you can usually find clubs for hundreds less on ebay then you would find it in a retail store, but do people realize if this continues to happen we will not have speciality golf stores to go visit and test this product? Once again, I completely understand why people do this (to save cash) but why would you go to a retail shop and waste a retail salesperson's time or use the technology that they spent thousands on to purchase your equipment some where else?

Bottom line, if you are going to purchase on ebay, I personally believe you shouldn't use the tools of a retail shop just so you can save some cash. I know I'm going to get hammered for this post, just thought I would post my 2-cents.

Once again, this board is great!!
[/quote]
I totally agree with you. I read where guys go in and spend an hour or two on the machines taking up space and time of a paying customer. THese guys are nothing more than ##############. Make me sick. I buy stuff from these stores and I feel I sometimes take too much time and I am talking maybe 15 minutes. I feel funny using a range to demo clubs if I don,t buy something of consequence at least once in awhile. You are dead right that to use someones facilities and continue to buy elsewhere will bring about the demise of these stores that make investments in ranges and machines.

[Huntingchris0000]

Their is an outdoor range/golfstore that charged me 50.00 for a fitting while I didn't mind paying 50.00 for the fitting, they wouldn't give me any incentive of that 50.00 to buy from them and they didn't have it in stock. The I-mix shaft I wanted was only $120.00 I asked the guy to get me a price and how much the shaft would be. He never called me back so the next day I went online and bought the same shaft used for 70.00. I buy alot online and a little in the box store. If I got better service in the box store and they had more selection I would buy more local. Most of the time I buy online without ever trying it in the store and sell it on the classifieds for a loss, seems to me we are so worried about whether the box store is going to stay in business and not worried about saving money. Debt is one of the largest reasons our economy is in the mess it is in. We are a buy it know people even if we don't always have the money we charge it. I said all that to say if the box store would take care of business they would lose alot less customers. Since when did the consumer have to worry about the business staying in business? When I go to buy a car I find the best price on the car and personally could care less if the salesman makes a good comission or the store makes good money, I am tryin to buy the car at the best cash price.

[KDMullins]

[quote name='307golf' date='22 February 2010 - 02:41 PM' timestamp='1266867711' post='2269506']
For business owners:

You must work to avoid becoming a 'commodity'. If you don't offer something special (knowledge, service, etc.) then you will be treated as a commodity, and commodities are bought/sold at the lowest market value...

Work to develop the perception of quality, and refuse to be treated differently. This is the biggest marketing challenge of the 'internet' economy IMO. You must create the perception of value in what you do.

Personally:

I personally find it a bit 'sleazy' to test in someone's store without the honest intention of buying it there if you like it, UNLESS, you are paying them for the testing. That's my personal view.
[/quote]

Great post. You said everything I was trying to say in about 1/4 of the words.

[mantan]

[quote name='Huntingchris0000' date='22 February 2010 - 04:41 PM' timestamp='1266878461' post='2269946']
Their is an outdoor range/golfstore that charged me 50.00 for a fitting while I didn't mind paying 50.00 for the fitting, they wouldn't give me any incentive of that 50.00 to buy from them and they didn't have it in stock. The I-mix shaft I wanted was only $120.00 I asked the guy to get me a price and how much the shaft would be. He never called me back so the next day I went online and bought the same shaft used for 70.00. I buy alot online and a little in the box store. If I got better service in the box store and they had more selection I would buy more local. Most of the time I buy online without ever trying it in the store and sell it on the classifieds for a loss, seems to me we are so worried about whether the box store is going to stay in business and not worried about saving money. Debt is one of the largest reasons our economy is in the mess it is in. We are a buy it know people even if we don't always have the money we charge it. I said all that to say if the box store would take care of business they would lose alot less customers.[b] Since when did the consumer have to worry about the business staying in business?[/b] When I go to buy a car I find the best price on the car and personally could care less if the salesman makes a good comission or the store makes good money, I am tryin to buy the car at the best cash price.
[/quote]

In this case consumers should worry about 'the business staying in business' because it's in our interest as golfer's to have products to demo and see in person.

If we don't support a model that makes that possible and all we care about is our own bottom line cost, we have no right to complain if the market drifts to the point where there are precious few places to see/demo equipment. Now that doesn't absolve the stores from doing everything they can to balance customer service and cost. And some stores do better than others.

Rather than the car industry, the personal computer industry would be a better example. 10-15 years ago people used places like CompUSA or local computer stores to buy custom PC's. That is an item you really don't need to 'test drive', since the outside components are virtually identical. Places like Dell, HP and Gatewary revolutionized the PC industry by using mostly online stores. Stores that relied on PC's to drive their sales, like CompUSA went belly up and consumers didn't care.

Back to your car example, it would be the equivalent of being able to test drive cars at your local lot...then go to an online dealer who could have the car delivered straight from the manufacturer for less money. Eventually there would be little incentive to sell cars and carry a big inventory (ignoring money made from the service department), because customers would just use you for test drives and shop online. But the consumers would be the utlimate loser when they eventually lost the ability to test drive cars locally. Not the best example, since a car is high dollar complex item - but still gets to the original posters point.

[jcb]

Guilty here. I went to Golfsmith. Hit the hell out of about 8 differnt brands of irons. Picked the one that fit me the best and promptly went home and bought them off ebay and saved myself $350. Yes $350 savings. No tax on ebay. Bought from a seller I have bought many things from and it is legit. How do I pass up that kind of savings. If it was $50 maybe I buy from the store but not $350. Sorry but Golfsmith is way overpriced compared to what I can get online.

Now for the employees. The local GS has one guy in the store who is always there. I mean he must work every single day. Every time I go there I just hope its his day off. This dude is not only rude but not knowledgeable at all. They do have one guy there who I have paid to fit me once and he is pretty good. The rest of them are jerks just feeding me a bunch of crap. I just play along and go home and spend $1000 on equipment online.

[Dizz]

[quote name='KDMullins' date='22 February 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1266865225' post='2269414']
[quote name='Dizzub' date='22 February 2010 - 09:50 AM' timestamp='1266850215' post='2268868']
[quote name='KDMullins' date='22 February 2010 - 12:08 AM' timestamp='1266815330' post='2268493']
[quote name='Dizzub' date='21 February 2010 - 10:40 PM' timestamp='1266810055' post='2268292']

Great so what you're trying to say is if the guy doesn't spend as much time on GolfWRX as you then you won't buy from them. Hell question #3 you might not find a single person on this planet that knows the 100% correct answer to.
[/quote]

I don't intend to be trying to say that...I think they're fairly straight forward questions about new retail products. They could've been a lot more difficult than that. If I owned a golf store, I'd make it my business to know the answers. I'd hate to think I owned a business and knew as little about the product I was trying to peddle as a lot of golf store owners/employees.
[/quote]

Very good, if you [i]owned[/i] a golf shop you probably would want to know as much as possible. [b]Its pretty unreasonable to expect every employee to know those questions when some may only work 2 days a week and make minimum wage. [/b] Yes they should do their best to help customers and not lie to them into buying something bad for their game. I actually work in a smaller shop of less than 10 employees so our ship is far better about trades, sales, and knowledge than big box shops but I still think its unfair.
[/quote]

I don't think it's unreasonable to expect somebody to understand the products they sell in a retail golf store or any other retail business. The fact that you think otherwise is indicative of the problem in my opinion. How often they work or how much money they make is of no concern to me. As a business owner, your store is only as good as the guy on the bottom of the totem pole. Like it or not, that's the face of the store when people walk in the door. Obviously, we can agree to disagree, but in my opinion, that's the biggest impediment to local golf stores competing with big box stores and online retailers. They can't compete on price, so as a potential purchaser, I have to be able to justify paying the extra money. People are not going to do it out of the goodness of their hearts...money's simply too tight right now, and regardless, there are too many other purchase opportunities in our internet-driven society.
[/quote]

You missed my point, of course every manager or owner wants good employees. But for BIG BOX RETAIL STORES it has to be nearly impossible to find that many part time employees that are really into golf equipment and have the time to learn the thousands of products. There is a ridiculous amount of product in that kinda store, if you work there 2 days a week you cannot possibly have enough experience to learn it all. There are simply going to be times when you just don't know the answer to something. I'm sorry you don't see that. As far as price, what are you talking about? We can compete on price on new stuff no problem but we specialize in good service and being custom fit correctly...the first time. Maybe I'm biased but to me thats worth an extra $50 instead of a lot of people that shop the used sections and BST buying "tour" and retail clubs with exotic shafts hoping to get lucky and guess as to what they need. We cannot compete with big places when companies like TM dump off thousands of old drivers and they advertise them at $149...that's for sure. We get repeat customers because we do help with trade in's and prices but its infuriating for someone to waste your time and then buy somewhere else, especially someone that gives you regular business.

[Dizz]

[quote name='Bobbers' date='22 February 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1266873552' post='2269761']
Early in my life I was a cook at McDonald's, I made minimum wage. I did know how to cook, and if you came in and wanted it well done with extra ketchup and no mustard, that's what you got, as quickly as it could be made. Nothing special about it, I took pride then, as I do now, in what I did, REGARDLESS of what I was paid.

No offense, but the idea that "they'd know more if they didn't work for minimum wage" smacks, to me at least, of an entitled, "this work is beneath me so I refuse to do it well" approach to work that I find both corrosive and confusing.

Ok, I'll pay you $2 per hour more than minimum wage, will that be enough? Or if I really want you to care do I have to add $3 per hour? How about: show me you care by investing yourself a bit in your work and THEN I'll pay you more based on your ability to actually DO the job instead of just showing up to it? Sorry, but the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way around. Seriously, how mahy of you expect to get a big raise and THEN decide to work up to your potential? Rant off.
[/quote]

Except the problem with this is, its a terrible comparison to the golf industry. Any guy thats over 16 years old and has ate a decent amount of hamburgers can learn how to cook one rare, well done whatever. You learn a handful of different sandwiches and when you screw up more often than not you get to fix it anyway. Learning the products in a giant golf store isn't quite the same. It has nothing to do really with money or working hard. We're talking about the guys that go into these shops to pick on guys that are working 2 days a week for low wages apart when they don't know something fairly specific. That would the same as me coming into your McDonald's and breathing down your neck while you cook my hamburger, that would be annoying wouldn't it? Bottom line knowing the ins and outs of cooking a hamburger is not a fair comparison to working in retail, golf or otherwise.

[David Hillman]

To the people who are abusing free services to save a few bucks... think how expensive it'll be when those free services are out of business, and you have to buy clubs on eBay just to try them out.

Buying online is fine, I do it all the time. But if you are going to use the services provided by a brick-and-mortar store, buy the club there. Their price is $50 higher to pay for the brick-and-mortar facility you just availed yourself of, so if you can't afford that, I guess you should keep your current club(s).

[sTmGolfer]

[list][*][size="4"]eBay can't fit you and take the time to make sure you buy the right equipment,
[/size][*][size="4"]eBay doesn't let you hit balls to test the product out,
[/size][*][size="4"]eBay doesn't let you repair damaged clubs that are covered under warranty, etc. [/size][/list][size="4"]
[size="2"]Some people say retailers should lower their price, but that's tough to do when the margin on clubs is already so low. People don't understand what little margin there is with equipment.

Don't get me wrong ... I've purchased used clubs from eBay. But some people overlook the value of getting fit and testing out product before making a purchase.
[/size][/size]

[Out In Par]

[quote name='Mizgoodie' date='21 February 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1266801487' post='2267924']
most that do it would pay for launch monitor time if that was an option... but alot of places and including my town only have a dicks, and one pretty decent golf shop but they rarely even have theirs hooked up , a vector... hey people test drive cars all the time and buy them the other place... golf is a customer service game,, giving the customer knowledge may lead to him coming back and buying stuff. but a bad customer service and he won't be back... i don't know many mom and pops the sell big name equipment anymore anyways and most have no problem using the big store stuff for free as they sell alot more stuff than golf,,,,,, they just want you to keep walking though the door.. [b]balls is where the real money is made.....[/b][/quote]

Are you serious with this comment? My friend you are so far off.

Titleist 909 - Wholesale Price 290
Titleist 909 - Retail Price 399
Profit - $109

Pro V1 - Wholesale Price $36
Pro V1 - Retail Price $44
Profit - $8

You have to sell 14dz balls to make the same profit you make on one driver.

[Dizz]

[quote name='Out In Par' date='22 February 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1266882276' post='2270095']
[quote name='Mizgoodie' date='21 February 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1266801487' post='2267924']
most that do it would pay for launch monitor time if that was an option... but alot of places and including my town only have a dicks, and one pretty decent golf shop but they rarely even have theirs hooked up , a vector... hey people test drive cars all the time and buy them the other place... golf is a customer service game,, giving the customer knowledge may lead to him coming back and buying stuff. but a bad customer service and he won't be back... i don't know many mom and pops the sell big name equipment anymore anyways and most have no problem using the big store stuff for free as they sell alot more stuff than golf,,,,,, they just want you to keep walking though the door.. [b]balls is where the real money is made.....[/b][/quote]

Are you serious with this comment? My friend you are so far off.

Titleist 909 - Wholesale Price 290
Titleist 909 - Retail Price 399
Profit - $109

Pro V1 - Wholesale Price $36
Pro V1 - Retail Price $44
Profit - $8

You have to sell 14dz balls to make the same profit you make on one driver.
[/quote]

That's probably pretty close though 14 to 1 sales figures. Not many people really come in and spend $399 for a driver anymore without trading something in or trying to bargain one way or another. However there are ways to make some decent money on balls but you sacrifice what you can carry. What do you think happens now when you have that driver priced at $299?

[OneBowTie]

[quote name='Fatsack540' date='21 February 2010 - 07:50 PM' timestamp='1266799853' post='2267858']
Welcome to the site!!! I here what your saying but I will not over pay the large chain shops for a product/club that I can find on the web for a fraction of the price. I am not against paying to use there equipment and monitors, But they offer demo's and equipment to test products for free many people like myself are gonna use it to there advantage. Just my .02.
[/quote]

Not saying you do this..... but What I find amusing is so many people will do as OP said, then run to ebay and attempt to buy on ebay only to first come right back here and ask if what they are bidding on is counterfeit .....

I hope that everyone who does as OP says..... doesn't complain when somebody totally wastes their time and resources, whether at home or work...... and that they don't complain when they buy a counterfeit product ......

[NGstaff]

[quote name='Out In Par' date='22 February 2010 - 06:44 PM' timestamp='1266882276' post='2270095']
[quote name='Mizgoodie' date='21 February 2010 - 08:18 PM' timestamp='1266801487' post='2267924']
most that do it would pay for launch monitor time if that was an option... but alot of places and including my town only have a dicks, and one pretty decent golf shop but they rarely even have theirs hooked up , a vector... hey people test drive cars all the time and buy them the other place... golf is a customer service game,, giving the customer knowledge may lead to him coming back and buying stuff. but a bad customer service and he won't be back... i don't know many mom and pops the sell big name equipment anymore anyways and most have no problem using the big store stuff for free as they sell alot more stuff than golf,,,,,, they just want you to keep walking though the door.. [b]balls is where the real money is made.....[/b][/quote]

Are you serious with this comment? My friend you are so far off.

Titleist 909 - Wholesale Price 290
Titleist 909 - Retail Price 399
Profit - $109

Pro V1 - Wholesale Price $36
Pro V1 - Retail Price $44
Profit - $8

You have to sell 14dz balls to make the same profit you make on one driver.
[/quote]

Ball profit margins SUCK!
Titleist 909 Driver is now $299.00
The best profit margin in golf is on apparel. That is it. Other than that. profit margins SUCK (Callaway is probably the worst - lukcy if it is 20%)! You are not going to make millions having a golf business unless you are the size of TGW or Golfsmith.

[codylowrygolf]

No one has yet to talk about the counterfeit issue (or so I think. I skipped most of this because it was becoming annoying and redundant.) There has been a spike over the last few years and is only going to continue to grow. At the PGA show last year Cleveland reps were showed two clubs. One was real and the other counterfeit. You couldn't tell the difference. Even after pulling the grips off there was the company sticker (hologramed I believe) and it was a dead match. There was only a very slight variation in something (forget what it was) that distinguished the two.

I know that there are ways around this, but it is a real threat. Eventually, I think, people will stop buying new clubs of ebay and go to their local store. It will become a noob thing to do.

Another thought is that there needs to be incentive from buying from a local store. I do demo's for Cleveland we just had a wedge fitting at a local GolfTec. I was there to fit them for bounce and distance gaps. I would talk to them about there game, where they played, current setup and then we would into the fitting. We wanted to determine if they were a digger or slider and had access to video, which was huge. Almost all of the fittings were the students of the pros on staff. Having them to back up there swing style and what they were working on was huge. All that to say we sold 25 wedges in a matter of a few hours.

Now most of you would say, well I would buy a wedge or two from some place because they are cheap. Well we sold 25 wedges to 8 guys and that's because several bought 4! It was a great night. People were very satisfied.

Why I think it was successful:

1. A trained fitter/representitive was on site
2. There was personal attention to them and their game
3. We were able to get loft/lie specs of there current set to accurately help (this really exposed why shouldnt buy off the rack. The lofts were all over the place. On guy had a 56 and a 60 that was really 59 and 61!) For the record the guy with the Henry Griffitts was the most accurate.... well, they were accurate.
4. We could order upright/standard strong or weak to more accurately match the customer. Then adjustment if necessary when the club arrives.
5. Help from a local PGA professional who also works on there game.
6. A discount if you bought more than one wedge.
7. Access to video
8. Cooler of beer and pretzels

I think that if shops want to survive they need to offer more. This night didn't cost the GolfTec anything but a little time, a couple phone calls and a case of beer.

[NGstaff]

[quote name='codylowrygolf' date='22 February 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1266886665' post='2270276']
No one has yet to talk about the counterfeit issue (or so I think. I skipped most of this because it was becoming annoying and redundant.) There has been a spike over the last few years and is only going to continue to grow. At the PGA show last year Cleveland reps were showed two clubs. One was real and the other counterfeit. You couldn't tell the difference. Even after pulling the grips off there was the company sticker (hologramed I believe) and it was a dead match. There was only a very slight variation in something (forget what it was) that distinguished the two.

I know that there are ways around this, but it is a real threat. Eventually, I think, people will stop buying new clubs of ebay and go to their local store. It will become a noob thing to do.

Another thought is that there needs to be incentive from buying from a local store. I do demo's for Cleveland we just had a wedge fitting at a local GolfTec. I was there to fit them for bounce and distance gaps. I would talk to them about there game, where they played, current setup and then we would into the fitting. We wanted to determine if they were a digger or slider and had access to video, which was huge. Almost all of the fittings were the students of the pros on staff. Having them to back up there swing style and what they were working on was huge. All that to say we sold 25 wedges in a matter of a few hours.

Now most of you would say, well I would buy a wedge or two from some place because they are cheap. Well we sold 25 wedges to 8 guys and that's because several bought 4! It was a great night. People were very satisfied.

Why I think it was successful:

1. A trained fitter/representitive was on site
2. There was personal attention to them and their game
3. We were able to get loft/lie specs of there current set to accurately help (this really exposed why shouldnt buy off the rack. The lofts were all over the place. On guy had a 56 and a 60 that was really 59 and 61!) For the record the guy with the Henry Griffitts was the most accurate.... well, they were accurate.
4. We could order upright/standard strong or weak to more accurately match the customer. Then adjustment if necessary when the club arrives.
5. Help from a local PGA professional who also works on there game.
6. A discount if you bought more than one wedge.
7. Access to video
8. Cooler of beer and pretzels

I think that if shops want to survive they need to offer more. This night didn't cost the GolfTec anything but a little time, a couple phone calls and a case of beer.
[/quote]

I agree with you. We had a guy come in our shop who just bought a set of Mizuno MX-200 irons off of me the other day. He had a brand new Ping G15 driver and 3 wood in his bag. We noticed that the headcovers looked funny. With his permission and upon closer inspection we compared his clubs and our clubs. His were completely fake. So DO NOT buy clubs from www.sunogolf.com They are FAKES! Unless you knew what you were looking for....you wouldn't have caught it. He spent around $160 for the driver. Come on people. Brand new G15 driver...you are NOT going to find that driver anywhere near that price. Heck that is WAY below cost.

I also agree with you that shops need to do different things to keep people interested. What really hurts is that advertising. Just can't compete with Dick's and those guys. Heck to put a 1 page, front and back circular in the Sunday paper would cost over $3,000 for 1 week. We are going to be doing a live radio remote broadcast with giveaways. We have our annual outdoor Demo Day. Nike Fitting Day (with rep). Ping Fitting Day (with rep). Mizuno Fitting Day (with rep). Our 8th annual Brookpark Open Charity Golf Tournament. 2nd annual Backyard Bash Charity Golf Tournament. We started our rewards program. We do free demos. Free fittings with purchase or clubs. If we can discount a club or clubs without violating a pricing policy...WE DO IT!

[Rockfish]

[quote name='KDMullins' date='21 February 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1266807600' post='2268190']
I think a lot of people will tell you the reason they do this is to save money, but I think the REAL reason most people do it is because they get crap service, and they've been getting crap service for a long time. It amazes me how many golf store employees and even owners completely miss the boat. They just sit around, wait for somebody to pick something up to buy, ask them if they need any tees with that, then they ring them up. Either that or they hound you from the minute you walk in, say at least 2 outlandish and absolutely untrue things about the first three products you look at, and wonder why you walk out the door without spending any money.

The fact is most stores have sales staff that know very little about the product they're selling, are horrible fitters, and take absolutely no pride in what they're doing. Sure, they might be able to impress somebody that doesn't know anything about golf clubs or other products, and they're great at running the cash register, but frankly, they're just there to get a paycheck. I don't recall going into a golf store where anybody in the place knew more about any product in their store than I did.

So, if you REALLY want to know why people like me don't buy from golf stores, here's a little test for the guy behind the counter at your local golf store. I don't think these are particularly tough questions, and I'll rattle them off as fast as I can type. In my opinion, any DECENT golf store employee should know all of these (or at least be able to get pretty close), but the fact is most can't even get one without going to a book (that they probably can't find) or a computer.

1. Ask the guy what custom shaft options Callaway's offering in the new FT Tour. I'll be shocked if the guy doesn't look at you like you've got a horn growing out of your forehead. Seriously, if he knows even 2 I'd be surprised.

2. Tell him you're really excited about the new Bridgestone driver, and ask him what it's called.

3. Ask him when they expect to get the new Adams black chrome player's cavities in. I'll be surprised if he even knows what you're talking about, and if he knows what they're called and what shafts come standard, tell me where the store is...I might move there.

4. In honor of Ian Poulter's big win today, ask him how much it costs to order a pair of FJ Icon customs, and how long it will take to get them in.

5. Ask him what he thinks about Lamkin's new 3GEN grips.

6. Ask him how the Taylor Made Penta is different than either the Red or Black from last year.

7. Ask him if they're going to carry Scratch wedges this year, and take a video camera with you so you can post the response. I'm sure it will be priceless.

If you haven't just totally blown his mind by now, here's a softball so he can redeem himself:

8. Ask him what the newest New Decade Multi Compound grip color choice is.

Frankly, if he can't get that one right, you shouldn't feel bad about using his launch monitor.
[/quote]



Not 1 in a 100 golfers are on this site and I'll bet not 1 in 100 golfers on this site could answer all 8 of those questions correctly.

YOU and some of the other club ho's on this site know all these answers because it's your hobby AND a big part of your life.

They can GET any of the answers to any of your questions - they don't need to KNOW the, off the top of their head.

You really think their bosses care about questions only .1% of their customers will ever ASK ?

[KDMullins]

[quote name='Rockfish' date='22 February 2010 - 08:38 PM' timestamp='1266889132' post='2270373']



Not 1 in a 100 golfers are on this site and I'll bet not 1 in 100 golfers on this site could answer all 8 of those questions correctly.

YOU and some of the other club ho's on this site know all these answers because it's your hobby AND a big part of your life.

They can GET any of the answers to any of your questions - they don't need to KNOW the, off the top of their head.

You really think their bosses care about questions only .1% of their customers will ever ASK ?
[/quote]

We're not talking about golfers on this site. I'm talking about golf store owners and employees...and if store owners don't care, then that is perfect evidence of the point I'm trying to make. Your employees shouldn't be trained to teach the uneducated buyer. Heck, anybody can do that.

The questions I posed are not just golf club (ho-type) questions. I specifically tried to ask questions about a fairly broad range of retail merchandise, not obscure, niche products. Further, it's not like you're going to ask the questions of a car dealer...we're talking about a golf store for goodness sakes! I think every question I posed dealt with new pro line merchandise. Most of this stuff can be seen flipping through any Golf Digest, Golf, Golf World, GolfSmith, etc., which I would hope I might flip through once in a while if I worked at a golf store. It's not like you have to go to a secret Internet site to find it.

I don't know. I guess everybody's got different expectations, but when I go in some place to spend my hard earned dollars, I'd like to think I could expect a certain level of expertise. In fact, I do expect a certain level of expertise, and frankly, if I don't get it, I shop elsewhere. It blows my mind that ANYBODY thinks it's okay to work at a job and not know jack about it. It's a sad day in America when mediocrity and apathy are accepted.

[MSaternus]

[quote name='Bobbers' date='22 February 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1266873552' post='2269761']
Early in my life I was a cook at McDonald's, I made minimum wage. I did know how to cook, and if you came in and wanted it well done with extra ketchup and no mustard, that's what you got, as quickly as it could be made. Nothing special about it, I took pride then, as I do now, in what I did, REGARDLESS of what I was paid.

No offense, but the idea that "they'd know more if they didn't work for minimum wage" smacks, to me at least, of an entitled, "this work is beneath me so I refuse to do it well" approach to work that I find both corrosive and confusing.

Ok, I'll pay you $2 per hour more than minimum wage, will that be enough? Or if I really want you to care do I have to add $3 per hour? How about: show me you care by investing yourself a bit in your work and THEN I'll pay you more based on your ability to actually DO the job instead of just showing up to it? Sorry, but the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way around. Seriously, how mahy of you expect to get a big raise and THEN decide to work up to your potential? Rant off.
[/quote]


[quote name='Dizzub' date='22 February 2010 - 06:19 PM' timestamp='1266880785' post='2270046']
[quote name='Bobbers' date='22 February 2010 - 04:19 PM' timestamp='1266873552' post='2269761']
Early in my life I was a cook at McDonald's, I made minimum wage. I did know how to cook, and if you came in and wanted it well done with extra ketchup and no mustard, that's what you got, as quickly as it could be made. Nothing special about it, I took pride then, as I do now, in what I did, REGARDLESS of what I was paid.

No offense, but the idea that "they'd know more if they didn't work for minimum wage" smacks, to me at least, of an entitled, "this work is beneath me so I refuse to do it well" approach to work that I find both corrosive and confusing.

Ok, I'll pay you $2 per hour more than minimum wage, will that be enough? Or if I really want you to care do I have to add $3 per hour? How about: show me you care by investing yourself a bit in your work and THEN I'll pay you more based on your ability to actually DO the job instead of just showing up to it? Sorry, but the horse goes in front of the cart, not the other way around. Seriously, how mahy of you expect to get a big raise and THEN decide to work up to your potential? Rant off.
[/quote]

Except the problem with this is, its a terrible comparison to the golf industry. Any guy thats over 16 years old and has ate a decent amount of hamburgers can learn how to cook one rare, well done whatever. You learn a handful of different sandwiches and when you screw up more often than not you get to fix it anyway. Learning the products in a giant golf store isn't quite the same. It has nothing to do really with money or working hard. We're talking about the guys that go into these shops to pick on guys that are working 2 days a week for low wages apart when they don't know something fairly specific. That would the same as me coming into your McDonald's and breathing down your neck while you cook my hamburger, that would be annoying wouldn't it? Bottom line knowing the ins and outs of cooking a hamburger is not a fair comparison to working in retail, golf or otherwise.
[/quote]

IMO, the top post is spot on, the reply is way off base. Yes, we can all cook a hamburger, fine. Not everyone walks around with knowledge of golf equipment. However, if you spend 2 days a week in a golf store and don't learn about the products that you carry, it is because you don't care. Even in a busy golf store, there is down time to read the manufacturer's literature, talk to the manager or other employees, etc. Will this equip you to deal with equipment freaks like us? No, but I don't think anyone here is talking about that. What should be expected is a basic knowledge of the equipment in your store. When is product X going to come out? What are the main features of product Z? What are the differences between A and B? Again, no one is asking every minimum wage employee to become a certified fitter & club expert, but it is not unreasonable to expect them to have an interest in and working knowledge of what they are selling. That much is not below anyone, regardless of the wage they are making.

[Bayou Kato]

Chiming in ... I've got madness in my method, I'm sure. As I look at my "gamer bag" I note that the Rapture V2 driver was purchased at my local retailer (ordered from Ping), as were the two new i15 hybrids and one of the G10 hybrids (the other came from eBay because it was a find -- 6H in Stiff). The irons were ordered from Ping via this shop the month they (G10s) came out. Wedge(s) were eBay, as was the new Cameron Sonoma putter and the two Cobra FW woods. The bag itself came from the store, but the rangefinder came from another store online.

As I go to the back-up bag, the only thing in there that came from the store was the driver (G15). And the 'second back-up' bag is mixed -- ISI irons I bought from the store's used rack, rest came from eBay.

I try to support them; if the cost difference isn't that much (like when I *have* to have the newest thing) I get it there. But a lot of stuff I may go try out there and price-check online or on eBay. If I can save more than $50 I'll buy from eBay; but if not, I'll take the store because it's local and they do all those things listed above (returns, repairs, etc.).

[Bizcut1]

[quote name='MtlJeff' date='21 February 2010 - 06:13 PM' timestamp='1266801209' post='2267911']

the impact of ebay is exaggerated, there has always been a market for used clubs even before the internet. And even now those clubs come from somewhere before going on ebay, likely a big box store
[/quote]

Well, I certainly have to disagree with this...ebay changed the game entirely...forever.


Ben

[Pablito Woods]

[quote name='MtlJeff' date='21 February 2010 - 08:13 PM' timestamp='1266801209' post='2267911']
i buy most of my stuff in stores, with the rate that most companies are releasing products you can get previous generation stuff for great discounts. I'd rather have brand new from the store than slightly used or questionable sellers on Ebay. And when it comes to brand new stuff i want it's tough to get that on Ebay anyway.

the impact of ebay is exaggerated, there has always been a market for used clubs even before the internet. And even now those clubs come from somewhere before going on ebay, likely a big box store
[/quote]
I'd still buy used from Ebay with certain clubs, but nothing except irons ever again. I love my Wilson FG-51s with S300s- they are in top notch condition and play great. On the other hand. I bought a Cobra X-Speed Pro S with a V2 stiff. It flexed stiff enough, but I swear it flexed too low that some people noticed and the ball was launching like a wedge about 230 (I hit my FG-51 2 iron 225 and my 3 wood 240-250). If I buy woods, it'll be new, built or components. Wedges never used because of groove wear, and putters maybe.