Right! Re-Grooving wedges Ping EYE 2 and EYE 2+

[j-daniel]

wanting as sharp grooves as a spin milled or mac daddy

Hi there guys.

I have recently jumped on the Ping EYE 2 and EYE 2+ wedge bndwagon and they are aesome my only problem is that the grooves just arent as sharp as wedges i used before callway mac daddys spin milled victory reds. Especilly the eye 2+ which seems to visually have alot smaler groove width that the eye 2.

Is there anywhere in the uk or cheaply in the US or anywhere else where i can send my wedges (i have 6 in total 2 eye 2+ and 4 radiused eye 2's) to have cut or milled right to the legal limit on groove depth and width?

also i do have a groove sharpening tool but i am having no success as these pings are very hard metal and im never going to get super spinny grooves with it.

Thanks jonny

[valmario]

i bought a re-grooving tool from a board member (i'll look for his username) and did it my self, the tool he fabricated did square grooves and v grooves, worked like a charm

[hef63303]

Just a reminder. If you regroove or sharpen the grooves, they are no longer grandfathered and are non-conforming.

[j-daniel]

are you sure this is the case?

surely the tour pros using ping eye 2's last year had their grooves sharpened to get them comparable with the other wedges out there.

[Mizgoodie]

making them as sharp or deep as the grooves you ralk about would make them illegal for sure. the reason the pros are playing them is that they are sharper and deeper than whats allowed now...

[marrigo]

[quote name='hef63303' date='22 February 2010 - 10:27 PM' timestamp='1266895647' post='2270682']
Just a reminder. If you regroove or sharpen the grooves, they are no longer grandfathered and are non-conforming.
[/quote]

+1, nonconforming if regrooved.

In fact I believe any wedge regrooved post Jan 1 2010 is nonconforming for EVERYONE, not just PGA and other high level events. I think USGA considers regrooved wedges in the same context as new wedges produced in 2010, that is they must conform to the 2010 rule. Recreational golfers can play wedges released pre 2010 until 2024, but if you regroove (with grooves that are non-conforming to the new rule) post Jan 1 2010 it is nonconforming. I think this is USGA's way of slowly getting wedges with nonconforming grooves out of play so that by 2024 no one will be playing them anyway. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[j-daniel]

right so if i had these wedges regrooved last year to last years regulations they would still be ok to play this year as an ameteur?

but regrooving them this year to last years regulations is illegal to play.

so the only factor is few months ???

i just really wanna play these wedges as the shape is perfect but the grooves re just a bit worn.

[pinhigh27]

honestly, I wander if there are any pros or top competitors that don't even have conforming grooves. I've never seen anyone's bag checked, nor would I know how they would test your clubs. Maybe they do it behind the scenes, but I dount anything like that matters for club championships or junior pga. No one is going to check your clubs. All my clubs conform to the rules that affect me, just saying.

[marrigo]

[quote name='j-daniel' date='23 February 2010 - 08:07 AM' timestamp='1266930455' post='2271219']
right so if i had these wedges regrooved last year to last years regulations they would still be ok to play this year as an ameteur?

but regrooving them this year to last years regulations is illegal to play.

so the only factor is few months ???

i just really wanna play these wedges as the shape is perfect but the grooves re just a bit worn.
[/quote]

Yup, I think that is correct. Jan 1 2010 was the deadline. Manufactures cannot release a new wedges with old groove dimensions after Jan 1 (but they can sell those that were released prior to Jan 1). And old wedges cannot be regrooved to pre 2010 dimensions. Any newly regrooved wedge must conform with the new rule.

[j-daniel]

right so coul di hve my ping eye 2's and eye 2+'s regrooved with 2010 legal limits? nd still ply them ok???

[marrigo]

right so coul di hve my ping eye 2's and eye 2+'s regrooved with 2010 legal limits? nd still ply them ok???

 

I think that it is physically impossible to get the grooves on those irons conforming based on the 2010 rule. The grooves are too close together and possibly too wide (heck, and maybe too deep as well) so no matter what you do they will not conform to the 2010 rule. Once you regroove them they are no longer be grandfathered in and will be treated like like a club produced in 2010.

 

You ask some very good questions on this very confusing topic. You may want to either write or call the USGA to get the final word, but I believe everything I said is probably correct, or maybe not.

[alittleoverpar]

right so coul di hve my ping eye 2's and eye 2+'s regrooved with 2010 legal limits? nd still ply them ok???

 

I think that it is physically impossible to get the grooves on those irons conforming based on the 2010 rule. The grooves are too close together and possibly too wide (heck, and maybe too deep as well) so no matter what you do they will not conform to the 2010 rule. Once you regroove them they are no longer be grandfathered in and will be treated like like a club produced in 2010.

 

You ask some very good questions on this very confusing topic. You may want to either write or call the USGA to get the final word, but I believe everything I said is probably correct, or maybe not.

 

 

My understanding is that if the face of the wedge is is changed in any way other than loft/lie adjustment is becomes non-conforming based on the USGA rules.

 

 

[NXT ME]

I have to say, unless you are playing in tournaments (pro or other), who cares really; I know that goes against many purists but 90% of average golfers have a hard enough time wedging it close anyway.

I can see it becoming an issue when money is on the line however.

[JD3]

With those weak lofts and offset heads, how is it you Ping Eye 2 guys don't hit your wedges straight up in the air?

No wonder Mickelson used to hit wedge over his head when he played Pings in college

[Howard_Jones]

@marrigo

With all respect, i'l think you got it al wrong.

There are no rules against restoring original specs on any golf club. The word "regrooving" does not exist on USGA web page.
The way i understand it, you can play clubs under the groovs rules that apply to you as a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

That means if you are playing under the old rules, you might go on with that, as long as the grooves on your clubs are confirming with the old rules.
Regooving back to the original specs doesn not make your club to be outside the rules. The rules does only apply to the grooves itself, not to "whos made them"
Pay attention to the word “as manufactured.” down in the cut & paste from USGA

It would have been quite a mess, if USGA should ask for evidence of what dato the club was regrooved. It does not not make sence.

The old Ping wedges is another ball game - They can be restored to the same specs as new(“as manufactured.”), witch means they wil not be confirming with the Callaway Mac daddy grooves, but they will be leagal accourding to the old rules, never the new ones.

If you want to restore a Ping wedge, i think the only way to do that right, is to have PING to do it.

Cut & Paste from USGA

[b]How does a player determine if a club or set of clubs conforms to the new specifications?[/b]

The USGA is developing a database that will help players determine if clubs conform to the new specifications, provided the club or set of clubs has not been altered and is “as manufactured.” The database will list all irons and wedges, as well as hybrids and fairway woods with lofts greater than or equal to 25 degrees, that have been evaluated for conformance to the new groove regulations. The database will be available on the USGA’s Web site ([url="http://www.usga.org/"]www.usga.org[/url]) by late October 2009.


Once on site, a player who is concerned about the conformity of grooves should alert a member of the USGA’s Rules Committee as soon as practicable, as is the case with any question on the Rules of Golf or equipment. The first step will be to determine the make and model of the club in question and whether the club has been included in the USGA database of clubs. If the club is listed in the database, has not been altered, and there are no other extenuating circumstances or other evidence of non-conformance, the club will be assumed to conform.

If a club does not appear in the database or if the club has been altered, officials on site will have the ability to conduct a field test to determine conformance. The field test that the USGA has developed will take less than 10 minutes for a club and no more than 30 minutes for a set of clubs.

[JD3]

What I dont understand is why arent the tour players with the grandfathered wedges using the entire Eye 2 set? as much as I'd want to have check on chips, I don't want to be hitting full iron flyers either ... that'd be almost a bigger concern. Seems odd no mention of irons.

btw, I don't think anyone answered the OP's question, if he can get his Eye 2 and Eye 2+ grooves similarly regrooved.

[j-daniel]

[quote name='jduncanm3' date='03 March 2010 - 05:06 AM' timestamp='1267592796' post='2289702']
What I dont understand is why arent the tour players with the grandfathered wedges using the entire Eye 2 set? as much as I'd want to have check on chips, I don't want to be hitting full iron flyers either ... that'd be almost a bigger concern. Seems odd no mention of irons.

btw, I don't think anyone answered the OP's question, if he can get his Eye 2 and Eye 2+ grooves similarly regrooved.
[/quote]

You are correct i havent really had my question answered i only want to use the wedges for social and county ameteur events here in the uk so i still can comply to last eyars rules so is there anywhere i can get the grooves redone??

also i di have a groove sharpener buts its just not good enough for the hard ping steel.

[JD3]

[quote name='j-daniel' date='03 March 2010 - 11:29 AM' timestamp='1267633780' post='2290363']
[quote name='jduncanm3' date='03 March 2010 - 05:06 AM' timestamp='1267592796' post='2289702']
What I dont understand is why arent the tour players with the grandfathered wedges using the entire Eye 2 set? as much as I'd want to have check on chips, I don't want to be hitting full iron flyers either ... that'd be almost a bigger concern. Seems odd no mention of irons.

btw, I don't think anyone answered the OP's question, if he can get his Eye 2 and Eye 2+ grooves similarly regrooved.
[/quote]

You are correct i havent really had my question answered i only want to use the wedges for social and county ameteur events here in the uk so i still can comply to last eyars rules so is there anywhere i can get the grooves redone??

also i di have a groove sharpener buts its just not good enough for the hard ping steel.
[/quote]
no way a sharpener is going to help. you need some kind of milling. if thats even possible and where you get it done, i dont know. be good if some of board club makers could chime in

[j-daniel]

definately im sure someone here knows someone whi can cut grooves in these? anyone in the uk???

[JCAG]

Ping Eye has grooves that are radiused (rounded) at the shoulder (club face). The whole Ping-USGA-PGA Tour issue was where to measure the shoulder in determining groove width.

I am fairly sure that if one was to sharpen the edges they would be non-conforming as the grooves would have to be made wider to remove the shoulder to get a sharp edge.

If the better golfers are sucking up all the old Ping wedges, what makes one think sharpening the groove edges would be better?

[Iain]

I didn't think the pings were grandfathered in anywhere else apart from the USA? As that's where the lawsuit was?

[marrigo]

[quote name='Iain' date='04 March 2010 - 04:49 PM' timestamp='1267739359' post='2293368']
I didn't think the pings were grandfathered in anywhere else apart from the USA? As that's where the lawsuit was?
[/quote]

Yeah, it's only where USGA rules are applied.

[seena_beena]

Re-grooving a wedge cannot be done..........

You can widen & sharpen the edges using a so called 're-grooving' tool............

But that does not return the groove to it's original depth/width.

That's why PING doesn't do it.

When your grooves wear out.............the only solution is a new club.

[dunn]

and how many tournaments have guys entered that are on this board have they checked, measured your grooves on irons?? i mean seriously, aside from maybe the top tours like pga, nationwide, and some other top, top ualifying tourneys.................seriously the avg joe who plays his local tourneys is not going to have his grooves measured...........lol

[hef63303]

No, they will not be measured but he may still be breaking a rule. Will he feel good about playing in a competition, knowing that he is breaking the rules? If you do not play by the rules of golf, you are not playing golf.

[Shambles]

I can't imagine any way to restore worn out grooves to the original without changing the face and that would mean rebuilding the club head. That would also make it a newly manufactured club.

Sharpening the grooves would not be restoring as that eats metal and probably introduces more aggresive grooves.

The only solution I can imagine is to find a set of clubs that were never used that much and that is very doable. Most amateurs change clubs way long before they ever even threatened to wear out the grooves. Amateurs more often change to stay with a current model rather than because their clubs wore out. Garage sales might be the better route, if your wedges actually wore out. I'm pretty sure there are a lot of clubs out there that spent a lot more time in the garage than on the fairways or the range.

BTW,

There might be a perception error here. Pings had more aggresive grooves than their counterparts in their time, but subsequent clubs actually had much more aggressive grooves mostly because ping edges were rounded to avoid scratching the ball the way current wedges do.


Shambles

[Socrates]

[quote name='Howard Jones' timestamp='1266992899' post='2273565']
@marrigo

With all respect, i'l think you got it al wrong.

There are no rules against restoring original specs on any golf club. The word "regrooving" does not exist on USGA web page.
The way i understand it, you can play clubs under the groovs rules that apply to you as a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

That means if you are playing under the old rules, you might go on with that, as long as the grooves on your clubs are confirming with the old rules.
Regooving back to the original specs doesn not make your club to be outside the rules. The rules does only apply to the grooves itself, not to "whos made them"
Pay attention to the word "as manufactured." down in the cut & paste from USGA

It would have been quite a mess, if USGA should ask for evidence of what dato the club was regrooved. It does not not make sence.
[/quote]

They don't use the word regrooving. They use the word "altered or alteration". Regrooving would be a purposeful alteration and therefore [b]new[/b] and must now conform to the Rules. As the club is now 'new', it must conform to the current Rules now in effect which means the USGA would have to have them submitted for inspection.

Ping will not re-groove any clubs (stated in catalogue).


[color="#474747"][size="2"][color="#474747"][b]Wear and Alteration (Rule 4-1b)[/b][/color]

[color="#474747"]Over time, the face and grip of a club, in particular, may become worn through use. For example, a grip may become so worn that it becomes molded for the hands, or the grooves on an iron club may become so worn that they no longer conform to the requirements in Appendix II, 5c.[/color]

[color="#474747"]Rule 4-1b provides that:[/color]

[color="#474747"]A club that conforms with the Rules when new is deemed to conform after wear through normal use. [b]Any part of a club that has been purposely altered is regarded as new and must, in its altered stated, conform with the Rules.[/b][/color]

[/size][/color]

[CD17]

@marrigo

 

With all respect, i'l think you got it al wrong.

 

There are no rules against restoring original specs on any golf club. The word "regrooving" does not exist on USGA web page.

The way i understand it, you can play clubs under the groovs rules that apply to you as a player. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

That means if you are playing under the old rules, you might go on with that, as long as the grooves on your clubs are confirming with the old rules.

Regooving back to the original specs doesn not make your club to be outside the rules. The rules does only apply to the grooves itself, not to "whos made them"

Pay attention to the word "as manufactured." down in the cut & paste from USGA

 

It would have been quite a mess, if USGA should ask for evidence of what dato the club was regrooved. It does not not make sence.

 

They don't use the word regrooving. They use the word "altered or alteration". Regrooving would be a purposeful alteration and therefore new and must now conform to the Rules. As the club is now 'new', it must conform to the current Rules now in effect which means the USGA would have to have them submitted for inspection.

 

Ping will not re-groove any clubs (stated in catalogue).

 

 

Wear and Alteration (Rule 4-1b)

 

Over time, the face and grip of a club, in particular, may become worn through use. For example, a grip may become so worn that it becomes molded for the hands, or the grooves on an iron club may become so worn that they no longer conform to the requirements in Appendix II, 5c.

 

Rule 4-1b provides that:

 

A club that conforms with the Rules when new is deemed to conform after wear through normal use. Any part of a club that has been purposely altered is regarded as new and must, in its altered stated, conform with the Rules.

 

 

I'm just reading through this & wondering how did Ping regroove the non conforming eye 2's after they won the court battle with the USGA.

 

I remember people who had the square groove eye2s either being offered a new set of eye2+ or having their clubs sent to Ping to be refurbished & regrooved.

[Nessism]

I'm just reading through this & wondering how did Ping regroove the non conforming eye 2's after they won the court battle with the USGA.

 

I remember people who had the square groove eye2s either being offered a new set of eye2+ or having their clubs sent to Ping to be refurbished & regrooved.

 

You are mixing the issues. The very first "square groove" Eye 2's had very sharp groove edges which would shred balls. Ping then rounded the edges which caused all the ruckus with the USGA because they said it widened the grooves. Ping was dulling out the sharp edge wedge grooves but they never did anything to change the grooves with the rounded edge grooves.

[CD17]

I'm just reading through this & wondering how did Ping regroove the non conforming eye 2's after they won the court battle with the USGA.

 

I remember people who had the square groove eye2s either being offered a new set of eye2+ or having their clubs sent to Ping to be refurbished & regrooved.

 

You are mixing the issues. The very first "square groove" Eye 2's had very sharp groove edges which would shred balls. Ping then rounded the edges which caused all the ruckus with the USGA because they said it widened the grooves. Ping was dulling out the sharp edge wedge grooves but they never did anything to change the grooves with the rounded edge grooves.

 

Maybe it was just a UK thing then or outside USGA rules, but Ping offered customers the option of exchanging their Ping eye2s for a new set of eye2+ or they could send their eye2s back to Ping & have them refurbished & conforming grooves.

 

I remember a few people receiving the letters from Ping & also a lot of conforming eye 2s were being sold off at American golf for a while after, Ping kept records of all the altered clubs.

 

Here's some info about it

 

 

 

https://www.torontogolfnuts.com/forum/golf-discussion-forum/golf-gear-equipment/134854-how-to-identify-ping-eye2-sq-grooves

 

So if Ping were able to modify the grooves of non conforming eye2s it must be possible to do so, I'm just not sure what they did.