Persimmon.....1960's

[HappyGas]

Persimmon.....1960's

If you are under 40.....please don't bother reading.

My Golf Today.....

I just got back from hitting golf balls outside. Not a big deal, with the exception that I live in Nebraska and we still have about 4" of snow on the ground. We have an outdoor driving range open year round.....so I went.

I spend a significant amount of time hitting balls with a 1960 MacGregor 2-Wood that I acquired a few years back.

I was blown away......

I am simply amazed more people are NOT playing the old equipment. There is tremendous control with that golf cllub. You can point to where you want to hit the ball and fire.

No....you cannot LAUNCH the ball like you can with a 460cc Titanium Head.
No....you cannot SAIL a golfball into the stratosphere.

Yes.....You CAN get plenty of distance.
Yes.....The ball returns to the intended line with toe & heel shots.

I strongly encourage any of you with the least bit of interest to go out and try an OLD persimmon. I know you can find them out on eBay for a decent price.

I have hit Persimmon from the '80 for many years, but this is a different beast. The club I was hitting looked much like the photo below. The photo below is another 2-wood I've had re-finished that I'll try out the next time I'm lucky enough to hit balls outside.

Amazing Golf Experience.

You'll fall in love with the game again....Promise.

[Obsessotron]

I am not over 40 but I remember my grandfather and all of his buddies always saying "boy you hit that ball on the screws" when someone nailed a drive. He explained why by showing me a driver just like this. Very cool stuff.

[worthhills]

I use to get huge rolls off those beauties, particularly when I caught one just a little on the toe, which I often tried to do. I will always have a special place in my heart for them.

[hos]

[quote name='HappyGas' date='02 March 2010 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1267557755' post='2288209']
If you are under 40.....please don't bother reading.

[/quote]

What on earth does my age have to do with it? That's kind of a pretentious statement. I'm 34 and love all my persimmon woods and circa 60-70 irons. My wish is not to call you out so much as it is; we should be [u]trying [/u]to get people under 40 into this forum or opened up to the experience that we know and love.

[KevCarter]

[quote name='hos' date='02 March 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1267561603' post='2288346']
[quote name='HappyGas' date='02 March 2010 - 01:22 PM' timestamp='1267557755' post='2288209']
If you are under 40.....please don't bother reading.

[/quote]

What on earth does my age have to do with it? That's kind of a pretentious statement. I'm 34 and love all my persimmon woods and circa 60-70 irons. My wish is not to call you out so much as it is; we should be [u]trying [/u]to get people under 40 into this forum or opened up to the experience that we know and love.
[/quote]

Hos,

It wasn't a put down in any way, shape, or form. It's just that most folks under 40 haven't seen persimmon and wouldn't know what he was talking about. No ill will to the young guys was intended...

Kevin

[HappyGas]

No ill will at all....

Heck, I don't care if you are FOURTEEN....go give Persimmon a try. In my experience, most of the golfers 35 & under have never hit anything but metal woods. Metal woods took over in 1986...that tells you something.

I played college golf from 1986-1988 & I was forced to convert to Metal Woods and Ping Irons. Biggest two regrets of my golfing life.

You can put the old persimmon up against any of the new stuff & you simply love your golfing experience.

((P.S. How do I HIGHLIGHT a previous post and put my comment under it. I'm new out here))

[hos]

Just go to the previous post and select 'quote' in the bottom right corner and then either select reply from there or at the bottom of the page. General rule around here is to not get too carried away quoting multiple posts at once as it becomes difficult to read through the whole topic and takes up way too much room. You can also edit the post you quoted (like I did yours) but watch that you don't alter the meaning of the post. Some guys get upset and think you're taking something out of context.

[HappyGas]

[quote name='hos' date='02 March 2010 - 04:09 PM' timestamp='1267564162' post='2288472']
Just go to the previous post and select 'quote' in the bottom right corner and then either select reply from there or at the bottom of the page. General rule around here is to not get too carried away quoting multiple posts at once as it becomes difficult to read through the whole topic and takes up way too much room. You can also edit the post you quoted (like I did yours) but watch that you don't alter the meaning of the post. Some guys get upset and think you're taking something out of context.
[/quote]

Got it. Thanks.

[RickK]

I had one of those that was stolen back in the 80s. The only difference was mine had the "key-hole" insert. I also had a 4 wood in that same club. It was stolen too. Man, what a loss. The 4 wood was probably the most versatile club I ever played back then. It was effortless to swing and the workabilty was great.

[Carson33]

I play hickories. No offense, but persimmon seem "modern" compared to that.

[HappyGas]

i just can't use strong enough language....

We are missing the boat by getting away from the old persimmon. It is simply a better product than today's metals. There is such control with the persimmon of old.

When did we get away from trying to control our driver ??

It is all about launching a ball high in the sky....too bad.

[ChristianMc]

My dear Happy Gas!
I am the youngest of a growing group in the UK that I began only in late October provisonally called 'The Persimmon Golf Society'. I am 28 and our 'oldest' is 41. There is perhaps more people in love with the classic game than you might think and I am trying to spread the word over here - our ranks are growing I am pleased to report with offers of 5 different clubs to play at (almost a persimmon tour!!). I grew up with metal in my hand and through a love for golf history started trying persimmon on and off a number of years ago.
You are not alone although I know how you feel when the funny looks roll across the first tee!

[Bella Woods]

[quote name='HappyGas' date='02 March 2010 - 10:03 PM' timestamp='1267585436' post='2289399']
i just can't use strong enough language....

We are missing the boat by getting away from the old persimmon. It is simply a better product than today's metals. There is such control with the persimmon of old.

When did we get away from trying to control our driver ??

It is all about launching a ball high in the sky....too bad.
[/quote]

HappyGas:

We got away from trying to control our driver when the manufacturers realized they could "marry"
the general technological boom of the early to mid 90s and cut their production labor costs by
about half, all while selling it as a "better product".

Now you only have to buy two or three drivers a year (or shafts) at $300 to $400 per club to keep
up with the latest equipment. Not to mention what it has done to the playability of the old time
golf courses (Re: the new driver/wedge game of golf).

[profsmitty]

IMO - we need to be a positive influence on WRX. That means


[list=1][*]Always taking the high road in our responses to each other whether we are pro-persimmon or anti-persimmon.[*]Encourage people to experiment with persimmon. Take advantage of the relatively "cheap" prices for quality equipment.[*]Don't be afraid to drop a little "persimmon-talk" in threads where it is relevant. You'd be surprised at how many times you can do this if you just keep your eyes open.[*]Support the existing threads and don't be afraid to start new ones. The most powerful thing we have to support some of the changes I would like to see us make is "post count". Participate - even it is only to ask a question or support a point.[*]Carry a persimmon or other classic club or clubs in your "Saturday bag" as well as the "Sunday bags" that most us also have where we keep our classic clubs. They are very comparable to more modern equipment. We need to show that.[/list]Just a couple of thoughts. Let's continue building our little community. We have done a great job. Let's continue. Remember - [u]Take the high road with our comments to each other[/u]. Thanks.

[freddiec]

The MacGregor Persimmon 2 Wood is one of the better clubs to hit. Back in the 80s I had a Tommy Armour 2 wood, I think it was a AT2W that had a black and red keyhole insert and leather grip. I loved to hit that off the tee and found it went only about 5 yards shorter than a driver and very easy to control. I think you'd be surprised that there are younger players who appreciate these old clubs like Christian. One of my friends in involved with someone right now who is making custom made persimmon drivers (top quaility stuff too) and he's only 25 yrs old.

[drewspin]

The brassie is a good match for the modern ball. The increased loft makes a big difference in compensating for the lack of spin when the modern ball is hit by a vintage driver. With a low lofted persimmon driver and the modern ball, it is really much easier to hit those low running duck hooks if you miss one a bit.

Brassies can oftem be had on the cheap as single clubs on eBay.

A word of caution though about range balls. Extremely hard compression range balls, especially this time of year when it can be cold outside can and do damage the inserts on persimmon clubs. With vintage clubs being had so inexpensively this is not a big deal... but it may be a disapppointment if you are taking your wall-hangers out for a test flight and you crack an insert on a rangeball.

[profsmitty]

Got this about balls off Lousiville Golfs website
:
[url="http://www.louisvillegolf.com/faq.phpf"]http://www.louisvillegolf.com/faq.phpf[/url]

[HappyGas]

[quote name='drewspin' date='03 March 2010 - 09:23 AM' timestamp='1267626203' post='2290150']
The brassie is a good match for the modern ball. The increased loft makes a big difference in compensating for the lack of spin when the modern ball is hit by a vintage driver. With a low lofted persimmon driver and the modern ball, it is really much easier to hit those low running duck hooks if you miss one a bit.

Brassies can oftem be had on the cheap as single clubs on eBay.

A word of caution though about range balls. Extremely hard compression range balls, especially this time of year when it can be cold outside can and do damage the inserts on persimmon clubs. With vintage clubs being had so inexpensively this is not a big deal... but it may be a disapppointment if you are taking your wall-hangers out for a test flight and you crack an insert on a rangeball.
[/quote]




Thanks for the post. And Thanks for the Heads Up w/ range balls.

I was truly blown away by the performance of the 2-wood yesterday. I've never been one who enjoys attracting attention to myself, and therefore I hesitate to bring the persimmon out for competition.

But I've got some nice events planned this summer and would just love to bring the club out. Last thing I want rolling through my mind while standing over a shot with the persimmon is: "I hope I don't DUCK this one."

I'll spend some time with it early this year and hopefully get comfy enough with the club so I can just step up and fire it down the middle.

I'm so disappointed that golf got away from accuracy and focused on distance. I see Pro's missing GIR with short irons in their hands ((GI irons)) & I just shake my head.

Same goes for the tee ball. Guys just want to pound the ball out there.....no care for a straight ball.

Go Back To Persimmon....You'll fall in love with the game again !!

[RobotDoctor]

[quote name='smith5606' date='03 March 2010 - 07:35 AM' timestamp='1267626946' post='2290172']
Got this about balls off Lousiville Golfs website
:
[url="http://www.louisvillegolf.com/faq.phpf"]http://www.louisvillegolf.com/faq.phpf[/url]
[/quote]

That link did not work for me. I found the here: [url=http://www.louisvillegolf.com/faq_article.php?article=MTkwNXN1cGVyMTkwMnNlY3JldDE5MDk%3D]ball link[/url].

Ok, now I am confused. I can use a modern ball and consider my launch rate and get a ball that will work with that (spin rate)? Now I need some of the persimmon guru's out there to chime in. Fred, John, etc? Would a "softer ball" of today, like the Titleist Solo or Taylor Made Noodle, be soft enough to play with my classic MacGregors?

[freddiec]

Sam,
I think if you have a MacGregor that is in good shape and has a really good strong finish coat you would be ok to play some of the softer modern balls. I have no idea which balls they would be. As long as your hitting it consistently on the Fiber insert I think you would be ok, atleast in warm weather, but I'd keep in eye on it. ITs really a judgement call. I like to use Professionals and Balatas myself, but I know its great to see the ball fly out there another 10 to 15 yards.

[drewspin]

I have played the pro v1 with persimmons and it is not going to damage the club. I have a fairly high swing speed (around 115 with a heavy driver).

I would not play a pinnacle with persimmon driver that is worth anything to me.

At some point in time, a persimmon head will crack or the insert will break.

Jack Nicklaus in his prime broke the insert on his persimmon gamer 8 times in one year, and that was with old soft balls... he was a hard swinger and played A LOT, so it is the extreme example, but it does happen.

My great hope is that the new softer balls will be better matched to persimmon woods.

[Bella Woods]

An observation relating to persimmon woods cracking:

The more you change out the shaft in a persimmon wood, the more times you have to heat up
the clubhead to do it, thereby altering the natural state of the persimmon. You are applying heat
to the most delicate part of the wood (the neck). I would think the woods that are re-shafted
many times would be more prone to cracking due to this.

I don't know it for a fact, but I would bet the pros of yesteryear (including Nicklaus) changed the
shaft in their clubs often, maybe not to the extent of today, but frequently none the less.

[stage1350]

Of the modern urethane balls, try the One Platinum or (if you can find them) Callaway HX-56. They are about the spinniest balls out there and will give you more of a balata-like performance with distance. They also make life easy around the greens too

I am finishing off my putters first, but still want to add some DG SL X-100 shafts to an old set of persimmons lying around and see what kind of fun I can have. My local Muni is about the perfect length for persimmon and blades.

[Scully13]

HappyGas- that is one stunning looking Macgregor wood. I personally think classic golf clubs will continue to be admired. The newer drivers today will not be admired in 25-30 years from now. They will only be recyclable.

I recently picked up a set of 1955 Macgregor Tourney Colokrom irons for literally a song. I can not wait to demo them.

I will post a topic with pics shortly.

But I m glad that there are purists out there. Keep hitting them.

[windowsurfer]

I know this thread is old but . . .

Just for fun, went to the rental boneyard @ r course and grabbed a real wood driver. Picked one that looked like it wouldn't explode the first time I hit it. Picked a Wilson 4300, "Johnny Miller 1000". About 43.5", steel ultralite R flex shaft and probably 11* loft. Laminated maple with a v cool clear plastic face insert. About 200 cc? Scarred up, but a nice grip and the face was in perfect shape.

Long story short, parred the front for the first time ever, with 7 for 7 fairways. Faltered on the back, but still scored 5 under my HC, my second best 18-hole score ever. Go figure.

Next day, same deal, 10 for 10 on the 12 driver holes I played b4 sunset. 55-60* F temperature. Used Cally HX Tour, Tour ix and Bridgestone E. Callys were best.

My drives were from 10-30 yds shorter than a good drive using one of my (many) modern 460cc drivers. But down the middle, or faded where needed; or drawn. Whoa. Nice low trajectory that even had some run, despite wet fairways. Hit this lil beauty off the deck too - with good results.

Gear effect was pronounced and I felt confident on shots I worked R or L.

My Achilles heel has always been trouble off the tee and my whine has been if I could JUST stay outta trouble off the tee, I might score better. True dat.

I am sold-sold-sold. Especially since I went this way (wood) in the first place because I have been so pleased with a Honma persimmon 4W I've been playing for a year now. It displaced Nickent and Hogan hybrids and I like it better than 4i too. I got used to the comments and now I don't care, especially if I can hit a bunch of fairways in a row while others hit moon shots into the deep fescue, woods + water. Where I used to go.

I'm sure I'll have off days and hit the dreaded duck hook (have had a few of those on overswings), but on average, I see a strong future for my game and the shorter, narrower courses I often play. Hell, even on long wide-open spreads, the ability to accurately place a shot for a better approach is still an advantage and a lot of fun!

Last night, in fading light, we played cross-country for a buck over the empty course to the 9th hole. Two tight shots with the Wilson through trees, across fairways to landing spots and then a persimmon 4W to an open landing area on the adjacent fairway. Set up a 9i with my old Toney Penna Original XQ-9, for the win. My -$100 clubs beat out over $700 worth of paint cans on a spendy stick. Gotta like it.

I've bought a used Louisville Classic on eBay for $45 incl shipping. It has a stiff graphite 44" shaft. It might give me back those few yards I gave away. But if the accuracy ain't there, I'll go back to the Johnny Miller 1000 in a heartbeat. (In fact, might game them both, using the JM 1000 instead of a 3W!)

Cheers!

[HappyGas]

[quote name='windowsurfer' timestamp='1287612213' post='2751810']
I know this thread is old but . . .

Just for fun, went to the rental boneyard @ r course and grabbed a real wood driver. Picked one that looked like it wouldn't explode the first time I hit it. Picked a Wilson 4300, "Johnny Miller 1000". About 43.5", steel ultralite R flex shaft and probably 11* loft. Laminated maple with a v cool clear plastic face insert. About 200 cc? Scarred up, but a nice grip and the face was in perfect shape.

Long story short, parred the front for the first time ever, with 7 for 7 fairways. Faltered on the back, but still scored 5 under my HC, my second best 18-hole score ever. Go figure.

Next day, same deal, 10 for 10 on the 12 driver holes I played b4 sunset. 55-60* F temperature. Used Cally HX Tour, Tour ix and Bridgestone E. Callys were best.

My drives were from 10-30 yds shorter than a good drive using one of my (many) modern 460cc drivers. But down the middle, or faded where needed; or drawn. Whoa. Nice low trajectory that even had some run, despite wet fairways. Hit this lil beauty off the deck too - with good results.

Gear effect was pronounced and I felt confident on shots I worked R or L.

My Achilles heel has always been trouble off the tee and my whine has been if I could JUST stay outta trouble off the tee, I might score better. True dat.

I am sold-sold-sold. Especially since I went this way (wood) in the first place because I have been so pleased with a Honma persimmon 4W I've been playing for a year now. It displaced Nickent and Hogan hybrids and I like it better than 4i too. I got used to the comments and now I don't care, especially if I can hit a bunch of fairways in a row while others hit moon shots into the deep fescue, woods + water. Where I used to go.

I'm sure I'll have off days and hit the dreaded duck hook (have had a few of those on overswings), but on average, I see a strong future for my game and the shorter, narrower courses I often play. Hell, even on long wide-open spreads, the ability to accurately place a shot for a better approach is still an advantage and a lot of fun!

Last night, in fading light, we played cross-country for a buck over the empty course to the 9th hole. Two tight shots with the Wilson through trees, across fairways to landing spots and then a persimmon 4W to an open landing area on the adjacent fairway. Set up a 9i with my old Toney Penna Original XQ-9, for the win. My -$100 clubs beat out over $700 worth of paint cans on a spendy stick. Gotta like it.

I've bought a used Louisville Classic on eBay for $45 incl shipping. It has a stiff graphite 44" shaft. It might give me back those few yards I gave away. But if the accuracy ain't there, I'll go back to the Johnny Miller 1000 in a heartbeat. (In fact, might game them both, using the JM 1000 instead of a 3W!)

Cheers!







[/quote]

Welcome to The Club.

In my opinion.....

It is The Great Secret to the modern game.

You lose forgiveness.....but you gain accuracy.

[chip75]

And I bet that's the first time in years Johnny Miller has been spoken so fondly about. But in all seriousness nice story and the good thing about persimmon woods is if they break you can give them a Viking's funeral (or set fire to them if they misbehave (don't torch the classics though)).