905T vs 905R What are the differences

[tekman]

Considering the rather cheap price of the 905T right now, what would the main benefit be to going directly to the 905R?

 

I know the sweet spot is 30% larger, but will there be any more control or distance?

 

I've not hit the 905R yet. No Demos in my area.

 

Thanks

[TheBUNKY]

I have my eye on a T on the bay right now that has a rather high loft. Would love to hear some feedback on this as well.

 

Looks like it is getting mixed reviews here http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=658

[mr_divots]

Titleist isn't blowing smoke when they say the sweet spot on the 905R is 30% larger. It is noticeable. The spin and launch are both noticeably higher with the 905R compared to the T as well. I had a 10.5º 905T that launched on the right trajectory for me, so I got a 10.5º when I got the 905R and the launch and spin were both too high. I just got a 9.5º 905R which I'm going to try next.

 

The R is workable for a larger driver, yet it is forgiving. Quite a combo. I don't think it's any longer than the T, but I think the larger sweet spot will mean longer drives when not struck dead center. I like the feel and sound of the R better as well. The T felt "dead" to me.

[Bill3508]

To me they are two different clubs, both in feel and sound. Distance wise the R was 10-15 yard longer for me mainly because its so straight. Height was similar as well. I actually play a 11.5 in the R and have a medium ball flight. I was not really impressed with the T and traded it on the R. The 905R is a incredible club, great feel, sound, and distance.

 

Bill3508

[kblakeney35]

I know the sweet spot is 30% larger, but will there be any more control or distance?

 

Thanks

 

Technically, a sweet spot cannot be 30% larger. The actual "sweet spot" of a club, or "center of gravity", is smaller than the size of a needle point. What you are feeling is more forgiveness and a higher moment of inertia.

 

Just wanted to point out that a sweet spot cannot increase or decrease, it just, is.

 

 

-Kyle

[tekman]

according to Titlest it is 30% larger, how I don't know, just quoting their specs.

[kblakeney35]

Titleist, like any other equipment manufacturer, is going to try to trick you into thinking there product is better. They will do anything to sell more of their stuff.

 

Once again, it is impossible for a sweet spot to grow or shrink, it is just there.

 

-Kyle

[tekman]

ok, so if the Mac tec driver boats that the entire club face is now the sweet spot they're lying and the Titleist engineers that state that they have increased the sweet spot on the club head by 30% to make it more forgiving. They're all lying?

 

So what you're saying is that the sweet spot on all clubs is only the size of a pinhead?

 

Am I the only one that has a problem with this analogy?

 

Keep in mind, I'm not discounting what your stating, I just don't see why Titleist would go out on a limb and state that without being able to back it up, because you know that someone will call them on it. Especially the players and especially the umpteen millions of guys like you and myself that are reading the technical specs and trying to figure all these things out.

 

If such is the case, then why aren't we all stillplaying persimmon?

[kblakeney35]

Number 1, all the things I state are completely backed up by Tom Wishon's book, The Search for the Perfect Golf Club.

 

Number 2, it is technically and physically impossible for the entire clubface to be the sweet spot, yes they are lying

 

Number 3, the reason we dont use persimmon is because today's larger titanium driver's are exponentially more forgiving

 

 

-Kyle

[expunge]

Let's try to stay on topic here.

 

Most golfers don't know what COR or MOI is, they know what the "sweet spot" is. They are not lying to anyone. The "sweet spot" is larger, 30% infact. You have a 30% larger spot to hit it to hit a great shot instead of 30% less.

 

Sweet spot is being taken too literally.

 

I just picked up a 983k and I was bombing that thing yesterday. I almost want to trade in my X460 for the 905R and see how that goes.

[Nille]

I think the better term here would be "the effective hitting area" is increased by 30% compared to the R. But since customers usually don't know the difference (or don't care), it does not matter but it is used by the companies as advertising. And the effective hitting area is the entire face of the driver is just advertising, too. (but that again depends on the definition, (what is effective?))

 

Isn't the sweet spot theoretically dimensionless so even smaller than the head of a needle :man_in_love: (btw sweetspot is the centre of gravity- if suspended at this point the head behaves as if the whole mass of the head is acting through this point).

 

Back to topic: The difference is that the R is a bit more forgiving and straighter. Distance difference depends on the player profile. And the sound is a bit different, too. The main difference is 60ccm ;)

 

I don't think the R is much better than the T, it is mostly buzz. (in my opinion)

 

Best wishes!

[tekman]

From Titleist's website.

 

http://www.titleist.com/golfclubs/drivers/905R.asp

 

#1 460cc driver on the PGA Tour

High launch. Low spin. Maximum ball velocity. These are the ingredients to maximize driving distance. These are the performance deliverables built into Titleist Pro Titanium drivers.

 

The 905R™ is a Tour-proven 460cc pear shaped titanium driver with shallow face for players seeking the ultimate combination of ball speed, launch angle, spin and forgiveness. The 905R has a 35% larger sweet spot than the 905T and 905S.

 

With an extensive selection of lofts and shafts, Titleist Pro Titanium drivers are capable of optimizing launch conditions for a wide range of serious golfers.

 

So back to the topic I started.

 

Is it worth it to go directly to the 905R or is the T just as good?

[kblakeney35]

Nille explained it pretty well above. Personally, I dont think the extra money is worth it for the R, I think the T is a very solid club and will work very well.

 

 

-Kyle

[tekman]

That's more to the point of what I was looking for. I know a lot of these 450+cc drivers claim a lot of distance gains and forgiveness, but I've yet to see it.

 

When I first went from the Titliest J to the R510TP, I gained a ton, but basically nothing gained since, not even forgiveness.

 

Since the T is cheaper and back down to the 400 CC. I just don't want to leave the big D (distance) on the table if I pull the trigger on a backup driver.

 

Ya know.

[steve81]

too bad they just couldnt blow up the 983K to 460.

 

i know, i know, people say the R is the same as the K only bigger, but no it isn't. The feel just isnt there in the R.

 

I love you 983K

[tekman]

Funny thing is, I've never hit the K either. I've been a TM guy for hte last few years, and other than the Bridgestone driver I've not strayed.

 

Looking to go back to Titleist for a spell.

[CHRISS1928]

Actually i thought the K and the R were pretty similar feel wise.

Steve well see if u love that K, haven't even swung it/hit it yet , silly goose. :man_in_love: ;) Anyways, Ignite also seems to have a similar feel to K, at least the 410, 460 not so much.

[wakenwae]

Having owned both the T and the R, IMHO there is a big difference in distance, feel, forgiveness, and ease of use. I was a TM 510TP with a 757 man with a back up of the T in a Titliest Speeder for a shaft that never could kick out the 510TP. One round with a fellow using the R convinced me to demo it......twice. Didn't want to switch from the 510TP but for the reasons above it is now in the bag and a better bag it is for the addition.

[Yellow Jacket]

You should seriously consider the Ignite 460. I went to it from a 905S, same shaft, and it is definitely more forgiving. The Ignite 460 is what I hoped the 905R was going to be - deeper face with the Titleist pear shape.

[Viking Golfer]

Number 1, all the things I state are completely backed up by Tom Wishon's book, The Search for the Perfect Golf Club.

 

Number 2, it is technically and physically impossible for the entire clubface to be the sweet spot, yes they are lying

 

Number 3, the reason we dont use persimmon is because today's larger titanium driver's are exponentially more forgiving

 

 

-Kyle

 

You simply can't be serious if you're stating that the sweet spot on all driver heads are the same size-wise ;) :man_in_love:

 

If this is what you are stating, and what Tom Wishon is stating, you are both wrong.

 

The size of sweetspots on various driver heads will vary depending on the size of the driver head and the construction of the head itself.

 

An old 300cc Taylor Made driver head will not in any way have the same sweetspot size as the new Taylor Made R7 4360cc driver head. Do you also think the sweetspot size on a Mizuno Mp-14 3 iron is the same as the sweetspot on a Big Bertha 2006 3 iron.....I hope NOT :cheesy:

[Yellow Jacket]

Do you also think the sweetspot size on a Mizuno Mp-14 3 iron is the same as the sweetspot on a Big Bertha 2006 3 iron.....I hope NOT :man_in_love:

Why you gotta single out the MP-14's? They had quite a bit of offset too...

 

In terms of modern clubs, I'd vote for the 670's.

[seanster]

Number 1, all the things I state are completely backed up by Tom Wishon's book, The Search for the Perfect Golf Club.

 

Number 2, it is technically and physically impossible for the entire clubface to be the sweet spot, yes they are lying

 

Number 3, the reason we dont use persimmon is because today's larger titanium driver's are exponentially more forgiving

 

 

-Kyle

 

You simply can't be serious if you're stating that the sweet spot on all driver heads are the same size-wise ;) :man_in_love:

 

If this is what you are stating, and what Tom Wishon is stating, you are both wrong.

 

The size of sweetspots on various driver heads will vary depending on the size of the driver head and the construction of the head itself.

 

An old 300cc Taylor Made driver head will not in any way have the same sweetspot size as the new Taylor Made R7 4360cc driver head. Do you also think the sweetspot size on a Mizuno Mp-14 3 iron is the same as the sweetspot on a Big Bertha 2006 3 iron.....I hope NOT :cheesy:

 

 

 

 

Yes, what Kyle had stated was right. ALL sweet spots are the same size in fact; doesn't matter whether it's an iron, wood, wedge, or putter.

 

Let's look at the advantages of a larger head vs. a smaller head. The larger the head, the more forgiving the club, as we have all come to know. But what is forgiveness in a club? It sure as heck doesn't mean a larger sweet spot. The truth is, that 35% 'larger sweet spot' in the 905R, is actually an increase in moment of inertia - resistance to a twisting clubface. A smaller clubhead will not have as much MOI has a larger head, which can result to more stray shots if the player decides to control the club somewhat by opening or closing the face. A clubface that isn't easy to manipulate/twist on the other hand, is of course 'forgiving', as the face won't open or close as much as a smaller headed driver through impact. And that explains why your shots don't go all tarzan on you as much.

 

Now you're wondering, "what about the distance gains??". Well there's a perfectly good explanation for that, and it's one of the reason why everyone is now switching to a jumbo-sized head. In a word to describe this phenomena, it's called the "trampoline effect", or COR (Coefficient Of Restitution) of a clubface. The bigger the head, the higher the COR, and the more quickly the ball will jump off the clubface. Ever wondered about 'conforming' drivers and why they are called that? Well the USGA has a set COR value, and drivers that do not exceed these values are 'conforming' to USGA standards. 'Non-conforming' drivers have CORs that are higher.

 

Oh, and about the sweet spot on those irons? There's an ingenius idea that clubmakers have come across, and we call that PERIMETER WEIGHTING. This might explain why most game improvement cavity back clubs look huge, and meaty - and it's because the area around the clubface has been weighted intentionally. Why you ask? So that there will still be at least some mass behind the ball to compress it, and send it flying through the air, which is why everyone seems to think that the sweet spot has grown larger. But it still doesn't change the fact that absolute centre-face contact would produce the best results with any club. An added bonus is that the MOI of the iron is increased as well.

 

Musclebacks now, they have extremely little weight around the clubface, and the majority of mass is positioned directly behind the centre of the face, which demands greater ballstriking skill and centre-face contact to get the ball to flight with a penetrating trajectory. The higher ball flight with the cavity backs is due to weight being distributed at the bottom of the club, a-la tungsten weights you see in most irons, and hybrids as well. And with the case of the 905R, its weight plug has been moved further back than the 905T to change its Centre of Mass, producing a higher ball flight.

 

 

*Sigh* well I hope this covers those golf club 'myths' about 'expanding sweet spots'. Like Kyle said, companies would say anything to make people buy their clubs, and they use simple terminology to trick people into doing so. If you have anymore doubts, Claus, feel free to argue away.

[cambo3295]

Back to the original question, not that the diversion isn't interesting!

 

The T and R are both very sensitive to shaft choice. With the right shaft they are amazing and really come alive, with the wrong one, they can feel dead, and launch and spin are not optimal and feel can be poor too. The right shaft for the T was slightly different to the right one for the R for me. Check my WITB for details.

 

I find the R not really that much longer, maybe just a tiny bit, than the T on flushed hits, but there are many more of those. The R head is more neutral, more forgiving and easier to hit on different heights. The T really only had one trajectory, which wasn't as helpful as it sounds as I play plenty of links golf. I actually launch and spin it marginally less than the T, again, maybe because of a slight shaft change. I personally like the feel of the R, it feels very solid, like a Tour K, but much of that is getting the shaft combo right. The sound isn't as nice as a K, nor maybe even a T, but frankly I can live with that.

 

Is it worth picking up a T for cheap? Maybe, if the shaft suits. But there is a reason why so many more people seem to like the R than the T on tour, including the non Titleist staffers.

 

Iain

[drawmerchant]

I've got both and I can say that in my experience the R is easier to hit than the T on a consistent basis i.e. its purely a matter of forgiveness and the bigger head size wins. If technology is about making the game easier then the extra 60cc makes the R the winner. I have to say that I recently purchased an R with the Titleist stock Speeder in S Flex, and its a pretty awsome club. I thought the Ping G5 with Grafalloy Blue S I was using was going to be real long term competition bag stayer, but the R Speeder has displaced it.

 

Drawmerchant

 

In the competition bag -

 

Titleist 905R, 9.5*, Titleist by Fujikura Speeder S

Titleist 980F Strong, 15*, TT DG S300

Sonartec MD, 19*, UST iRoD S

Titleist 735.CM Chrome, 3-PW, TT DG S300

Titleist Vokey 252.08 & 258.08 Tour Chrome, TT DG S300/S200

Titleist Scotty Cameron Studio Style Newport 2, 35" shaft

[tekman]

If you don't mind my asking, what is your Swing speed? I'm curious how the non-Triaxial Titleist speeder holds up to a decent swing speed.

 

I hit the T with the a stiff titleist speeder and it was WAY to high, but it was super long. Curious if they play the same in either head.

[golfer_junior]

I know the sweet spot is 30% larger, but will there be any more control or distance?

 

Thanks

 

Technically, a sweet spot cannot be 30% larger. The actual "sweet spot" of a club, or "center of gravity", is smaller than the size of a needle point. What you are feeling is more forgiveness and a higher moment of inertia.

 

Just wanted to point out that a sweet spot cannot increase or decrease, it just, is.

 

 

-Kyle

Technically the argument you are trying to make is completely determinant on what you define the sweet spot as. You are correct if you are reffering to the spot on the face that yeild the highest % of energy transfer, however the more widley used and more easily understood spot is actually quite a bit larger. Most golfers refer to the sweet spot as the area on the face that feels the best when struck in that area. The more consistent and higher skill of the player becomes, this area becomes smaller until the player is a robot who can make the same action over and over again (nobody has achieved this or ever will). So the sweet spot you are referring to only comes into play on a regular basis for a machine that is capable of repeating the same movement time and time again.

[golfer_junior]

There is a reason for the 905R being the #1 460cc driver on tour!

[matt70286]

I've hit both, the 905T in 9.5 w/ the Fujikura Speeder Stiff and the 905R in 10.5 w/ the V2 66 Stiff, and in my opinion the 905R is a juiced up version of the 905T (even though the loft was different on the two I liked the R a lot better). The R is definately more forgiving and I would say when fitted with the right loft, the R is about 10 yards longer than the T. I used to play the 983K in 9.5, fooled around with the T and liked it, but it didn't wow me. When I hit the R, I knew that the R was going to be in the bag. If money is an issue, and the T is going for very cheap these days, I would give it a shot, but if you have the money, go with thr 905R, you'll be happy you did. Also, get fit, I found out that I needed to go up from 9.5 on my K to a 10.5 on the R, but that's just me.

 

Sorry if my post is confusing, and like I said this is just my .02 cents.

[Viking Golfer]

I know the sweet spot is 30% larger, but will there be any more control or distance?

 

Thanks

 

Technically, a sweet spot cannot be 30% larger. The actual "sweet spot" of a club, or "center of gravity", is smaller than the size of a needle point. What you are feeling is more forgiveness and a higher moment of inertia.

 

Just wanted to point out that a sweet spot cannot increase or decrease, it just, is.

 

 

-Kyle

Technically the argument you are trying to make is completely determinant on what you define the sweet spot as. You are correct if you are reffering to the spot on the face that yeild the highest % of energy transfer, however the more widley used and more easily understood spot is actually quite a bit larger. Most golfers refer to the sweet spot as the area on the face that feels the best when struck in that area. The more consistent and higher skill of the player becomes, this area becomes smaller until the player is a robot who can make the same action over and over again (nobody has achieved this or ever will). So the sweet spot you are referring to only comes into play on a regular basis for a machine that is capable of repeating the same movement time and time again.

 

I completely agree with the entire post from Kyle :man_in_love: ;)

 

This explains WHY I mean a sweet spot can not be the same size if you increase the size of the head to say 100 times the size of another head.

I'm not talking about a sweetspot that will only work for a robot that hits exactly in the same spot every single time....... :cheesy:

[EdmontonGolfer]

JESUS!! I feel like I just went back to physics class!

 

I currently have 3 drivers in the roatation and the 905T w/ Graphite Design YS-6+ Stiff is winning the battle so far. I have no trouble with accuracy or distance with this club and it feels and sounds awesome. I don't think you'll notice that much of a difference betwee the two unless you're a Tour Pro. I think the 905T is a better buy at the price they are selling them for now.