Mac O'Grady's Swing ... what can we learn?

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418910861' post='10611303']
I dont feel like showing you guys my Mac pattern. But hey PingG10guy nice avatar!!!
[/quote]

I knew youd say that...and I knew youd say that

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Lake' timestamp='1418862511' post='10609449']
[quote name='PJ1120' timestamp='1418860260' post='10609311']
So was Mac advocating parametric acceleration and 'going normal" 25 years ago....oh my.
[/quote]

He didn't have that vocabulary...but def stressed getting the hands up to 8 from a low 6...I had never heard that before him...where several TGM instructors during that time had there hands way forward, arched, and low w/ a locked-out right arm
[/quote]

Some TGMers overdid the flat left wrist, which was fixed by Bayou witchdoctors, using their new koolaid flavor, "going normal". Unfortunately, the fanboys drank too much and are bending the left wrist through impact.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418913055' post='10611465']
Unfortunately, the fanboys drank too much and are bending the left wrist through impact.
[/quote]

Uhhh didnt Lake tell Virtuoso to feel like he was doing that during impact? Which are "fanboys"? Im confused

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418911077' post='10611311']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418910861' post='10611303']
I dont feel like showing you guys my Mac pattern. But hey PingG10guy nice avatar!!!
[/quote]

I knew youd say that...and I knew youd say that
[/quote]

That's the most creative fraud I've ever seen on golf forums!

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418913201' post='10611479']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418913055' post='10611465']
Unfortunately, the fanboys drank too much and are bending the left wrist through impact.
[/quote]

Uhhh didnt Lake tell Virtuoso to feel like he was doing that during impact? Which are "fanboys"? Im confused
[/quote]

There's a big diff between losing some right wrist bend through impact and actually having a bent left wrist while the ball is still on the face.

[virtuoso]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418910861' post='10611303']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418860389' post='10609323']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418859170' post='10609231']
[quote name='xxjonesyxx' timestamp='1418840561' post='10607597']
^^ At the risk of annoying pinhigh by mentioning finger grip (Apologies)

Does a finger grip just mean the grip is stronger? as I don't understand what is meant by only needs a quarter as much closure than a normal grip.
Probably well above my pay level , but i would be interested to know the answer...

Thanks,

Neil
[/quote]

Not a quarter as much closure, but only a 45 deg turn to plane the club face on the BS,instead of 90 degs for palm grip.
[/quote]

i think when we start talking about a pre-rotated foream and how it theoretically simplifies the back swing movements, we tend to miss the big picture about what made Mac's 80's swing so great.

In my mind the essense is this: he kept his foreams close together which allowed both of them to control shaft positioning, he kept his upper arms well connected to his torso, which allowed him to coordinate his arm swing with his body rotation, and he had an extremely dynamic pivot with enough side bending to trim unnecessary lateral shifts. And finally, the holy grail, he kept all the slack out of the system--which is to say that the transfer of energy from the rotational centers had very few "bumps in the road" on it's way to the clubhead. That ultimately aids in speed and control of clubface angle.
[/quote]

Yeah, Mac emphasizes keeping the center stable in the McCord Clinic Vimeo. But, it's unclear to me why he says keeping the right elbow well off the torso, and having the left arm across the chest, parallel to the shoulders on the BS, is the key to center stability. The challenge for me is that I've always hit the ball best by moving my upper and lower cg. Also interesting was Mac saying he controlled curvature with one joint, the right elbow. And, I'll look again, because I missed the elbows squeezed together.
[/quote]

Those are my subjective observations. I've moved away from taking a rigid interpretation of what Mac and Gary say in those vids. Not because they were misleading but because i have to get to the 88 mac model from where I am now, so my feels will be different in that context. It's actually amazing what I have to feel to get these last few parts.

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418915228' post='10611639']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418910861' post='10611303']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418860389' post='10609323']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418859170' post='10609231']
[quote name='xxjonesyxx' timestamp='1418840561' post='10607597']
^^ At the risk of annoying pinhigh by mentioning finger grip (Apologies)

Does a finger grip just mean the grip is stronger? as I don't understand what is meant by only needs a quarter as much closure than a normal grip.
Probably well above my pay level , but i would be interested to know the answer...

Thanks,

Neil
[/quote]

Not a quarter as much closure, but only a 45 deg turn to plane the club face on the BS,instead of 90 degs for palm grip.
[/quote]

i think when we start talking about a pre-rotated foream and how it theoretically simplifies the back swing movements, we tend to miss the big picture about what made Mac's 80's swing so great.

In my mind the essense is this: he kept his foreams close together which allowed both of them to control shaft positioning, he kept his upper arms well connected to his torso, which allowed him to coordinate his arm swing with his body rotation, and he had an extremely dynamic pivot with enough side bending to trim unnecessary lateral shifts. And finally, the holy grail, he kept all the slack out of the system--which is to say that the transfer of energy from the rotational centers had very few "bumps in the road" on it's way to the clubhead. That ultimately aids in speed and control of clubface angle.
[/quote]

Yeah, Mac emphasizes keeping the center stable in the McCord Clinic Vimeo. But, it's unclear to me why he says keeping the right elbow well off the torso, and having the left arm across the chest, parallel to the shoulders on the BS, is the key to center stability. The challenge for me is that I've always hit the ball best by moving my upper and lower cg. Also interesting was Mac saying he controlled curvature with one joint, the right elbow. And, I'll look again, because I missed the elbows squeezed together.
[/quote]

Those are my subjective observations. I've moved away from taking a rigid interpretation of what Mac and Gary say in those vids. Not because they were misleading but because i have to get to the 88 mac model from where I am now, so my feels will be different in that context. It's actually amazing what I have to feel to get these last few parts.
[/quote]

You're approach is probably what I should and will do also. Just look at what Mac appears to be doing and modify to get there. Words can be misleading, but their swings are the truth.

[virtuoso]

Finally starting to get the transition and right elbow move working, and the right arm is starting to behave properly through and post impact.

Current DTL:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig3pBr6k84I&feature=youtu.be[/media]

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418920569' post='10612081']
Finally starting to get the transition and right elbow move working, and the right arm is starting to behave properly through and post impact.

Current DTL:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig3pBr6k84I&feature=youtu.be[/media]
[/quote]

Visually so close, the small diffs are probably arm length diffs. Good work.

[Boise59]

I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!

[virtuoso]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418925114' post='10612409']
[quote name='virtuoso' timestamp='1418920569' post='10612081']
Finally starting to get the transition and right elbow move working, and the right arm is starting to behave properly through and post impact.

Current DTL:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ig3pBr6k84I&feature=youtu.be[/media]
[/quote]

Visually so close, the small diffs are probably arm length diffs. Good work.
[/quote]

yep, he has longer arms and longer legs than me. Torso length probably about the same. he is 6 feet and I am 5' 9"

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?

[Boise59]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

I think it is several things. His swing and rythym are very estecially pleasing, and he sells himself as a "mystic guru" which I think makes him attractive. I have known people who have taken lessons from him, he is not a great communicator and in short was very rude with them. For years he has dangled the carrot of a book, but is holding back for reasons that no one can fathom. If he has the "answer" he should share it, not hoard it. Heck, charge a ton if he wants, but let's see it on paper.
Another attraction of Mac is his connection to The Golfing Machine. However if we look at TGM in a objective light, it is a failure as a teaching method. it is too difficult for most golfers to understand (and most teachers as well). You can tell a tree by its fruit and TGM has not really produced as a method and it has been around since 1969.
TGM has not produced one major champion, and really only a handful of players (Clampett, Mudd, Waite, Pressel) all very good players but not HOF'ers. Other than Pressel all have faded away and Clampett, who was destined to be the next Nicklaus, never really produced and neither did Mac.
Golfers are always looking for the new fix and with us living in the technology age we look to science to cure our golfing woes. However the most succesful teacher of our era, Butch Harmon, uses some technology to improve his players, but relies on teaching methods that are 50+ years old and his tree really produces fruit. Almost every player gets better and many were brought back from the golfing dead. Corey Pavin wins in his 40's, Mickelson starts winning majors, Ernie Els wins the British. Now that's fruit!

[Ghost of Snead]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

A short game ?

[Boise59]

[quote name='lefty57' timestamp='1418936067' post='10613447']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

A short game ?
[/quote]

I thought that too, but when you look at his putting he was always down near the bottom. I think if we looked deeper into it we would find that like most players he was a "streak" player. Mike Hebron wrote a great article about this earlier in the year,

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

So wait you have a MORAD pattern, yet you're hating on mac? Sounds logical

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1418941229' post='10613931']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

So wait you have a MORAD pattern, yet you're hating on mac? Sounds logical
[/quote]

Where do you get me hating Mac?? That's what Mac told the crowd on the Patterson Clinic Vimeo. What's logical is that he pulled a rabbit outa the hat by finally making it.

[pinhigh27]

maybe I misinterpreted your recent posts in this thread but it seemed like you were saying copying mac wasn't the best idea?

[Diz]

Nice Work Virtuoso!

[northgolf]

[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418913381' post='10611489']
[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418911077' post='10611311']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418910861' post='10611303']
I dont feel like showing you guys my Mac pattern. But hey PingG10guy nice avatar!!!
[/quote]

I knew youd say that...and I knew youd say that
[/quote]

That's the most creative fraud I've ever seen on golf forums!
[/quote]

Nah, your impression of knowledge tops it tenfold.

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1418941229' post='10613931']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

So wait you have a MORAD pattern, yet you're too scared to show it. Do you even play golf? Or you just like to argue about it on the internet...
[/quote]

Like you dont know the anser to that...lol

[pinhigh27]

[quote name='PingG10guy' timestamp='1418963240' post='10615351']
[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1418941229' post='10613931']
[quote name='MizunoJoe' timestamp='1418934811' post='10613317']
[quote name='ggpro' timestamp='1418928335' post='10612695']
I am amazed with the preoccupation that golfers have for Mac O'Grady. To be sure he is an interesting character, but for a guy who really only had 5 productive years on the Tour (1985-1989) he sure gets fawned over. Check out his ball striking stats on PGATour.com, accuracy with the driver was horrible, irons mediocre and really the only thing he excelled at was hitting the ball reasonably far.
Perhaps Calvin Peete could be regarded as highly (check his stats for the same time period), now there's a guy to be copied but he probably wouldn't be as rude to you lol!
[/quote]

For me it's because after 16 fails at q-school, and going downhill to not breaking 80, he obviously found something. What is it?
[/quote]

So wait you have a MORAD pattern, yet you're too scared to show it. Do you even play golf? Or you just like to argue about it on the internet...
[/quote]

Like you dont know the anser to that...lol
[/quote]

haha I don't think that was my quote

[PingG10guy]

[quote name='pinhigh27' timestamp='1418965176' post='10615431']
haha I don't think that was my quote
[/quote]

Youre saying that there's a chance doe...

[Jacob Mac]

How is the weather in OK? When do you think you are going to post that swing?

[MizunoJoe]

[quote name='Jacob Mac' timestamp='1418990256' post='10615909']
How is the weather in OK? When do you think you are going to post that swing?
[/quote]

We finally got a break, and I'll video tomorrow. Then, figure out how to post it.

[ej002]

If you can't post send it to me i will put it on my channel

[Jacob Mac]

Getting something up on youtube is pretty easy after you get the hang of it. I can put it on my channel if you need help. The more MORAD information that is out there, the better. Especially from guys who really know the swing.

I know you said that TGM guys know the swing and like to tinker. But if you could walk us through how you learned the swing so fast after you post the video, that would be much appreciated.

[MizunoJoe]

Thanks guys, I'll probably have to take you up on it.

Jacob - Fast doesn't mean correct. And I'm not sure that lI shouldn listen to everything Mac says. I don't claim to know the swing, just think I can copy what I see.

[chrisgilly09]

Tick-Tock

[MizunoJoe]

Cloudy, wet, 40 degs mid-morning, it's thermal underwear & hoodie for morning session, cut short and I'm not driving 300 miles to Dallas to shoot a video.