Tiger is lost

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1330409565' post='4393655']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1330369787' post='4389169']
Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

You answered a challenge about [b]athleticism[/b] with an argument based in swing speed. Not exactly apples and apples.

From a pure athleticism standpoint, I think [b]Tiger would fall somewhere between #2-4 on Tour.[/b]
[/quote]
As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc. and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and one eye procedure. How is that nearly a dozen? That's FOUR!

[Redhill]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1330409565' post='4393655']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1330369787' post='4389169']
Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

You answered a challenge about [b]athleticism[/b] with an argument based in swing speed. Not exactly apples and apples.

From a pure athleticism standpoint, I think [b]Tiger would fall somewhere between #2-4 on Tour.[/b]
[/quote]
As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc. and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and one eye procedure. How is that nearly a dozen? That's FOUR!
[/quote]

Those are the surgeries that are known.

Is Eldrick the kind of guy that is going to disclose all his medical treatments if he feels it will give his competitors a mental edge?

I know.....I know...... "the swing is in a state of progress and I just need more reps"

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='Redhill' timestamp='1330452677' post='4396107']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1330409565' post='4393655']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1330369787' post='4389169']
Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

You answered a challenge about [b]athleticism[/b] with an argument based in swing speed. Not exactly apples and apples.

From a pure athleticism standpoint, I think [b]Tiger would fall somewhere between #2-4 on Tour.[/b]
[/quote]
As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc. and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and one eye procedure. How is that nearly a dozen? That's FOUR!
[/quote]

Those are the surgeries that are known.

Is Eldrick the kind of guy that is going to disclose all his medical treatments if he feels it will give his competitors a mental edge?

I know.....I know...... "the swing is in a state of progress and I just need more reps"
[/quote]

[scratchswinger]

Checkout this read.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7624365/tiger-putting-woes

The Tiger Woods I used to know

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rick Reilly
ESPN.com



This is a Tiger Woods I don't recognize, this Tiger Woods who gags five-footers that could keep a match alive, as he did last week against Nick Watney at the World Match Play. The Tiger Woods I used to know would've sunk that putt the way a carpenter sinks a nail, without a thought, and the next three after it.


This is a Tiger Woods I can't fathom, this Tiger Woods who goes to Pebble two weeks before and lets his rival, Phil Mickelson, leave enough spike holes in his back to start a colander; who misses five putts of five feet or less on Sunday, including one on 18 no longer than a kielbasa. The Tiger Woods I used to know had a Sunday putter so hot you could brand heifers with it. Now, I'm surprised he doesn't get frostbite.


This is a Tiger Woods I never imagined, this Tiger Woods who stands over a putt like it's ticking, who talks now of "the putter release point" and other mechanical goop you usually hear from guys headed back to the Nationwide Tour. Tiger used to have parts of guys like that in his lower intestine.


But this is the Tiger Woods we have. And if this Tiger Woods ever hopes to catch Jack Nicklaus and his 18 majors, he has to fix his putting. This, however, is like saying Baghdad needs to fix its bridges. His golf swing looks silky again, but right now, Woods is as far from his old putting self as Chaz Bono is from his old driver's license picture.


"That [Tiger] is not back yet," says putting guru Dave Pelz. "I don't know if he'll ever be back."


What happened? I have my guesses:


“
When I taught Tiger, all I ever did with his putting was try and notice if he was doing anything out of his norm. Now Tiger has changed so much about his stroke that it seems like it would be hard to figure out what's wrong.

” -- Hank Haney

The Nike Theory


During the Tiger Sex Scandal, most companies fled Woods like Red Riding Hood. One that stuck with him? Nike. Not long after, at the 2010 British Open, Woods started using a Nike putter instead of the Scotty Cameron Titleist putter he'd won his last 13 majors with. It was like Jim Bowie suddenly carrying a putty knife; B.B. King playing an oboe. Maybe Nike said, "We'll hang with you through all those pancake waitresses, but we don't want to see somebody else's putter next to your ball." Whatever. Since that day, Woods is 0-for-6 in majors and winless on the PGA Tour.


"If I'm coaching Tiger right now," says Woods' old coach, Butch Harmon, "I'd take the Nike out of the bag and put the Scotty back in and see how good that looks in his hands."


Maybe it's in his contract, maybe it's out of loyalty, maybe it's because Tiger -- who is nothing if not stubborn -- refuses to admit he was wrong. But 100 guys out of 100 would've gone back to the Scotty two years ago. Hell, Arnold Palmer used to bring 12 putters to the putting green and pick a new one daily.


"Which is weird," says former tour star Peter Jacobsen, "because I think Nike would much rather see Tiger hoisting trophies over his head again than see their swoosh lined up next to his ball."


The Earl Theory


When you think about it, Tiger hasn't been golf's Mozart since his dad died in 2006. Earl knew which of Tiger's buttons to push, possibly because he'd installed them. They'd sit at dinner and talk about all the great putts he'd made that day, how he believed in his reads, how he saw them going in long before he'd struck them, just as the Green Beret psychologist had taught him.


Earl didn't even need to be with Tiger. At his first PGA Championship win, at Medinah in 1999, Tiger was standing over a tricky putt on the 17th hole on Sunday. As I wrote in Sports Illustrated in 2000: "I was in the hotel and I said to him, 'Tiger, this is a must-make putt. Now, we've been through it before. Trust your stroke. Trust your stroke.' And he made it. That night I said to him, 'I told you to [trust your stroke on] that putt at 17.' He said, 'I know, Pop. I heard you.'


That voice is gone.


The Karma Theory


Great putting is like great writing -- it helps to have an uncluttered mind. When your life has come apart like bad knitting, as Tiger's has, you're up to your cheekbones in clutter.


A 6-year-old can make four-footers all recess because he doesn't think about it. But if your mind is full of doubt and troubles and guilt, all those problems rattle around in your skull. These are known as The Demons. When the hole is looking like a Cheerio, The Demons will have you asking yourself why Golf hates you, why God hates you, why Luck hates you. Worse, you begin to wonder if maybe you deserve it.


In the year 2009 PFH (Pre Fire Hydrant), Woods ranked second in putting. This year, he's 175th.


"He's coming back from a pretty deep place," says Pelz, who has never worked with Woods. "Almost none of golf is mental. It's about your mind getting out of the way."


"He seems a long way from his unconscious right now," says Dave Stockton, who helps Mickelson and Rory McIlroy with putting. "He seems like he's thinking all the time, like he's trying. Putting is not about trying, it's the easiest thing we do in golf."


Not lately.


The Fun Theory


The Tiger I used to know laughed a lot more on the course. Laughed at himself sometimes when he'd miss an easy one, which was almost never. Now he laughs about as much as an Easter Island statue. Even makes are greeted with a look of dread reprieved for another hole.


"You look at [Tiger's] face and he doesn't look like he's having much fun," says Jacobsen. "You watch Rory McIlroy. He makes a putt and he looks like it's Halloween and he just got two large Butterfingers from the house down the street. ... That's not how Tiger looks. He looks like it's all a lot of work right now."


The Yips Theory


I hate to even broach this, but is it possible we're seeing the start of the yips?


"I wouldn't say the yips, no," says Harmon. "But I definitely see nerves. It started at Augusta last year, on the back nine. He had a chance to win and he suddenly started missing short putts. They weren't on line, they didn't touch the hole. It's understandable with everything he's been through off the course. I'm not making excuses for him. He brought that on himself. But his confidence just seems gone on the greens."


It's happened to great players before: Bernhard Langer, Tom Watson, Ben Hogan. They were never the same afterward.


Gulp.


The Time Theory


Tiger is fascinated with the golf swing, bored by the putting stroke. He's an incurable swing tinkerer, but he doesn't have any obsession with putting. Billy Casper used to wear out the carpet in his houses at night putting. Not Woods. He doesn't put in anywhere near the time on the putting green that he does on the range.


Woods often complains about "not getting the speed of the greens here" but is he out there enough? At the Match Play in Arizona last week, he played a grand total of nine practice holes.


If the worst part of your game is also the part you spend the least time working on, that's not a coincidence. That's a reason.


The Grooving a Mistake Theory


Woods used to have a beautiful swinging-gate type stroke -- inside going back, inside going through -- like Ben Crenshaw's. Now he putts more straight back-straight through. That would be fine if it was working, but it's not.


Also "it looks as if he is trying to keep the putter shaft leaning forward like he does with his full swing," emails Hank Haney, Tiger's former coach, whose new book "The Big Miss" drops in late March. "When I taught Tiger, all I ever did with his putting was try and notice if he was doing anything out of his norm. Now Tiger has changed so much about his stroke that it seems like it would be hard to figure out what's wrong."


So what can Tiger and his putter do to dig themselves out of this quicksand? Well ...

a) Get help. Tiger has never hired a putting guru like Pelz or Stockton or ... anybody. He talks to Steve Stricker a lot, but how can you trust somebody who's trying to beat you?


He's had no problem having three swing coaches. Why not try one putting coach?


"Because," says Pelz, "when you've spent most of your career having people tell you you're the greatest putter in golf history, you're probably not going to ask for help."


b) Get a psychologist. Plenty of players do it. Tiger should. Because if he's got The Demons, they need to be cleansed.


c) Get a belly putter. Tiger hates it, has campaigned against it. But desperate times call for desperate measures. If Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley can crush with one, why not?


"I think it would help him to practice with it," says Harmon, "because it forces you to take it back inside and release it through. Doesn't mean you have to play with it."


But why not? Does it cause warts?


d) Get nonchalant. "Phil is in a place right now where he doesn't care so much about results," says Stockton. "He's just rolling it and enjoying it. That's where Tiger needs to be. It's not about lessons or equipment. It's about just letting it go."


Uh, hello? Have you MET Tiger Woods? He's not big on letting go.


e) Get moving. Used to be, Tiger took two practice strokes, then his stance, then one last look, then fired. Now, he stares at it like Boris Spassky at a trapped queen. Sometimes he takes over a full minute before he's ready.


"To me," says Harmon, "it looks like he's looking for something that isn't there."


Like himself?

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='Redhill' timestamp='1330452677' post='4396107']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1330409565' post='4393655']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1330369787' post='4389169']
Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

You answered a challenge about [b]athleticism[/b] with an argument based in swing speed. Not exactly apples and apples.

From a pure athleticism standpoint, I think [b]Tiger would fall somewhere between #2-4 on Tour.[/b]
[/quote]
As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc. and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and one eye procedure. How is that nearly a dozen? That's FOUR!
[/quote]

Those are the surgeries that are known.

Is Eldrick the kind of guy that is going to disclose all his medical treatments if he feels it will give his competitors a mental edge?

I know.....I know...... "the swing is in a state of progress and I just need more reps"
[/quote]

I know. Tiger's army of clandestine agents had to engage in quite a bit of black ops to cover up the fact that Tiger has had Chinese designed, PED enhanced nanotechnology implanted in his knee.

He certainly can't disclose this to his competitors since they will target the knee next time Tiger catches a pass over the middle.

[starsail85]

biggest load of dump ive ever read. Tiger will wipe the floor with everyone pretty soon, just you watch

[HCEG1]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1330453724' post='4396245']
Checkout this read.

http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/id/7624365/tiger-putting-woes

The Tiger Woods I used to know

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By Rick Reilly
ESPN.com



This is a Tiger Woods I don't recognize, this Tiger Woods who gags five-footers that could keep a match alive, as he did last week against Nick Watney at the World Match Play. The Tiger Woods I used to know would've sunk that putt the way a carpenter sinks a nail, without a thought, and the next three after it.


This is a Tiger Woods I can't fathom, this Tiger Woods who goes to Pebble two weeks before and lets his rival, Phil Mickelson, leave enough spike holes in his back to start a colander; who misses five putts of five feet or less on Sunday, including one on 18 no longer than a kielbasa. The Tiger Woods I used to know had a Sunday putter so hot you could brand heifers with it. Now, I'm surprised he doesn't get frostbite.


This is a Tiger Woods I never imagined, this Tiger Woods who stands over a putt like it's ticking, who talks now of "the putter release point" and other mechanical goop you usually hear from guys headed back to the Nationwide Tour. Tiger used to have parts of guys like that in his lower intestine.


But this is the Tiger Woods we have. And if this Tiger Woods ever hopes to catch Jack Nicklaus and his 18 majors, he has to fix his putting. This, however, is like saying Baghdad needs to fix its bridges. His golf swing looks silky again, but right now, Woods is as far from his old putting self as Chaz Bono is from his old driver's license picture.


"That [Tiger] is not back yet," says putting guru Dave Pelz. "I don't know if he'll ever be back."


What happened? I have my guesses:


“
When I taught Tiger, all I ever did with his putting was try and notice if he was doing anything out of his norm. Now Tiger has changed so much about his stroke that it seems like it would be hard to figure out what's wrong.

” -- Hank Haney

The Nike Theory


During the Tiger Sex Scandal, most companies fled Woods like Red Riding Hood. One that stuck with him? Nike. Not long after, at the 2010 British Open, Woods started using a Nike putter instead of the Scotty Cameron Titleist putter he'd won his last 13 majors with. It was like Jim Bowie suddenly carrying a putty knife; B.B. King playing an oboe. Maybe Nike said, "We'll hang with you through all those pancake waitresses, but we don't want to see somebody else's putter next to your ball." Whatever. Since that day, Woods is 0-for-6 in majors and winless on the PGA Tour.


"If I'm coaching Tiger right now," says Woods' old coach, Butch Harmon, "I'd take the Nike out of the bag and put the Scotty back in and see how good that looks in his hands."


Maybe it's in his contract, maybe it's out of loyalty, maybe it's because Tiger -- who is nothing if not stubborn -- refuses to admit he was wrong. But 100 guys out of 100 would've gone back to the Scotty two years ago. Hell, Arnold Palmer used to bring 12 putters to the putting green and pick a new one daily.


"Which is weird," says former tour star Peter Jacobsen, "because I think Nike would much rather see Tiger hoisting trophies over his head again than see their swoosh lined up next to his ball."


The Earl Theory


When you think about it, Tiger hasn't been golf's Mozart since his dad died in 2006. Earl knew which of Tiger's buttons to push, possibly because he'd installed them. They'd sit at dinner and talk about all the great putts he'd made that day, how he believed in his reads, how he saw them going in long before he'd struck them, just as the Green Beret psychologist had taught him.


Earl didn't even need to be with Tiger. At his first PGA Championship win, at Medinah in 1999, Tiger was standing over a tricky putt on the 17th hole on Sunday. As I wrote in Sports Illustrated in 2000: "I was in the hotel and I said to him, 'Tiger, this is a must-make putt. Now, we've been through it before. Trust your stroke. Trust your stroke.' And he made it. That night I said to him, 'I told you to [trust your stroke on] that putt at 17.' He said, 'I know, Pop. I heard you.'


That voice is gone.


The Karma Theory


Great putting is like great writing -- it helps to have an uncluttered mind. When your life has come apart like bad knitting, as Tiger's has, you're up to your cheekbones in clutter.


A 6-year-old can make four-footers all recess because he doesn't think about it. But if your mind is full of doubt and troubles and guilt, all those problems rattle around in your skull. These are known as The Demons. When the hole is looking like a Cheerio, The Demons will have you asking yourself why Golf hates you, why God hates you, why Luck hates you. Worse, you begin to wonder if maybe you deserve it.


In the year 2009 PFH (Pre Fire Hydrant), Woods ranked second in putting. This year, he's 175th.


"He's coming back from a pretty deep place," says Pelz, who has never worked with Woods. "Almost none of golf is mental. It's about your mind getting out of the way."


"He seems a long way from his unconscious right now," says Dave Stockton, who helps Mickelson and Rory McIlroy with putting. "He seems like he's thinking all the time, like he's trying. Putting is not about trying, it's the easiest thing we do in golf."


Not lately.


The Fun Theory


The Tiger I used to know laughed a lot more on the course. Laughed at himself sometimes when he'd miss an easy one, which was almost never. Now he laughs about as much as an Easter Island statue. Even makes are greeted with a look of dread reprieved for another hole.


"You look at [Tiger's] face and he doesn't look like he's having much fun," says Jacobsen. "You watch Rory McIlroy. He makes a putt and he looks like it's Halloween and he just got two large Butterfingers from the house down the street. ... That's not how Tiger looks. He looks like it's all a lot of work right now."


The Yips Theory


I hate to even broach this, but is it possible we're seeing the start of the yips?


"I wouldn't say the yips, no," says Harmon. "But I definitely see nerves. It started at Augusta last year, on the back nine. He had a chance to win and he suddenly started missing short putts. They weren't on line, they didn't touch the hole. It's understandable with everything he's been through off the course. I'm not making excuses for him. He brought that on himself. But his confidence just seems gone on the greens."


It's happened to great players before: Bernhard Langer, Tom Watson, Ben Hogan. They were never the same afterward.


Gulp.


The Time Theory


Tiger is fascinated with the golf swing, bored by the putting stroke. He's an incurable swing tinkerer, but he doesn't have any obsession with putting. Billy Casper used to wear out the carpet in his houses at night putting. Not Woods. He doesn't put in anywhere near the time on the putting green that he does on the range.


Woods often complains about "not getting the speed of the greens here" but is he out there enough? At the Match Play in Arizona last week, he played a grand total of nine practice holes.


If the worst part of your game is also the part you spend the least time working on, that's not a coincidence. That's a reason.


The Grooving a Mistake Theory


Woods used to have a beautiful swinging-gate type stroke -- inside going back, inside going through -- like Ben Crenshaw's. Now he putts more straight back-straight through. That would be fine if it was working, but it's not.


Also "it looks as if he is trying to keep the putter shaft leaning forward like he does with his full swing," emails Hank Haney, Tiger's former coach, whose new book "The Big Miss" drops in late March. "When I taught Tiger, all I ever did with his putting was try and notice if he was doing anything out of his norm. Now Tiger has changed so much about his stroke that it seems like it would be hard to figure out what's wrong."


So what can Tiger and his putter do to dig themselves out of this quicksand? Well ...

a) Get help. Tiger has never hired a putting guru like Pelz or Stockton or ... anybody. He talks to Steve Stricker a lot, but how can you trust somebody who's trying to beat you?


He's had no problem having three swing coaches. Why not try one putting coach?


"Because," says Pelz, "when you've spent most of your career having people tell you you're the greatest putter in golf history, you're probably not going to ask for help."


b) Get a psychologist. Plenty of players do it. Tiger should. Because if he's got The Demons, they need to be cleansed.


c) Get a belly putter. Tiger hates it, has campaigned against it. But desperate times call for desperate measures. If Webb Simpson and Keegan Bradley can crush with one, why not?


"I think it would help him to practice with it," says Harmon, "because it forces you to take it back inside and release it through. Doesn't mean you have to play with it."


But why not? Does it cause warts?


d) Get nonchalant. "Phil is in a place right now where he doesn't care so much about results," says Stockton. "He's just rolling it and enjoying it. That's where Tiger needs to be. It's not about lessons or equipment. It's about just letting it go."


Uh, hello? Have you MET Tiger Woods? He's not big on letting go.


e) Get moving. Used to be, Tiger took two practice strokes, then his stance, then one last look, then fired. Now, he stares at it like Boris Spassky at a trapped queen. Sometimes he takes over a full minute before he's ready.


"To me," says Harmon, "it looks like he's looking for something that isn't there."


Like himself?
[/quote]

It's not like he can't putt all the time

Just a few weeks ago, in Abu Dhabi, he drained everything in his last round, turning a 78 into a 72, with just 24 putts ( he hit just 6 GIR)

[jabrch]

[quote name='mizunostaffer' timestamp='1330457401' post='4396597']
biggest load of dump ive ever read. Tiger will wipe the floor with everyone pretty soon, just you watch
[/quote]


IMO, that is as credible as the opinion of those who say he is done and has no chance to return to dominating form....it's unlikely that either are the case.

[triplebogeyblues]

This week should be a good sign of where Tiger's putting is really at, as he will be putting on "Florida greens".

[Rustynuts]

I liked the article above, thought it was all pretty accurate

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and [b]one eye procedure.[/b] How is that nearly a dozen? [b]That's FOUR![/b]
[/quote]

1. [b]December 1994 -[/b] Woods has surgery to remove two benign tumors and scar tissue in his left knee during his freshman year at Stanford. The surgery at such an early age is a harbinger of things to come over the next 17 years.
2. [b]December 2002 -[/b] After winning three of his final eight events of the season, including the U.S. Open, Woods has knee surgery to remove fluid around his ACL. It's the second time in eight years he's gone under the knife.
3. [b]April 2008 -[/b] Following a second-place finish at the Masters, Woods decides to have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee to repair cartilage damage, just two days after the first major of the year.
4. [b]June 2008 -[/b] He has reconstructive surgery on the ACL in his left knee, also repairing cartilage damage in the process.
5. [b]December 2010 -[/b] Two years after Woods ruptured his Achilles during his knee rehab, Woods reportedly has a cortisone shot in his right ankle.
6. 1999, Woods has first Lasik eye surgery treatment.
7. 2007, Woods has second Laser eye surgery
8-10. Woods is treated by Dr Anthony Galea. Most reports indicate 3 instances of Woods engaging in the blood spinning treatment.

Now if you want to challenge me on the Galea treatments, that's fair but Woods has admitted to at least one. So in essence, I said nearly a dozen, I was counting 10. 8 are completely documented. You are completely wrong on the number of eye procedures and trying to play the semantics game between major and minor is beneath you my friend.

Definition by the way...

surgery [b]1. [/b] The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis and treatment of injury, deformity, and disease by manual and instrumental means.[b]2. [/b] A surgical [b]operation or procedure[/b], especially one involving the [b]removal or replacement of a diseased organ or tissue.[/b]

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330458944' post='4396785']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and [b]one eye procedure.[/b] How is that nearly a dozen? [b]That's FOUR![/b]
[/quote]

1. [b]December 1994 -[/b] Woods has surgery to remove two benign tumors and scar tissue in his left knee during his freshman year at Stanford. The surgery at such an early age is a harbinger of things to come over the next 17 years.
2. [b]December 2002 -[/b] After winning three of his final eight events of the season, including the U.S. Open, Woods has knee surgery to remove fluid around his ACL. It's the second time in eight years he's gone under the knife.
3. [b]April 2008 -[/b] Following a second-place finish at the Masters, Woods decides to have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee to repair cartilage damage, just two days after the first major of the year.
4. [b]June 2008 -[/b] He has reconstructive surgery on the ACL in his left knee, also repairing cartilage damage in the process.
5. [b]December 2010 -[/b] Two years after Woods ruptured his Achilles during his knee rehab, Woods reportedly has a cortisone shot in his right ankle.
6. 1999, Woods has first Lasik eye surgery treatment.
7. 2007, Woods has second Laser eye surgery
8-10. Woods is treated by Dr Anthony Galea. Most reports indicate 3 instances of Woods engaging in the blood spinning treatment.

Now if you want to challenge me on the Galea treatments, that's fair but Woods has admitted to at least one. So in essence, I said nearly a dozen, I was counting 10. 8 are completely documented. You are completely wrong on the number of eye procedures and trying to play the semantics game between major and minor is beneath you my friend.

Definition by the way...

surgery [b]1. [/b] The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis and treatment of injury, deformity, and disease by manual and instrumental means.[b]2. [/b]A surgical [b]operation or procedure[/b], especially one involving the [b]removal or replacement of a diseased organ or tissue.[/b]
[/quote]

How many surgeries did Ben Hogan have?

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='bscinstnct' timestamp='1330460253' post='4396913']


How many surgeries did Ben Hogan have?
[/quote]

What is your point?

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330458944' post='4396785']
[quote name='DevilGolfer' timestamp='1330440475' post='4394741']
Do you see how you're hyperbolic? Almost 40? The dude just turned 36. Almost 40 is two and a half years away. He's also had three knee procedures, with only two being 'major' and [b]one eye procedure.[/b] How is that nearly a dozen? [b]That's FOUR![/b]
[/quote]

1. [b]December 1994 -[/b] Woods has surgery to remove two benign tumors and scar tissue in his left knee during his freshman year at Stanford. The surgery at such an early age is a harbinger of things to come over the next 17 years.
2. [b]December 2002 -[/b] After winning three of his final eight events of the season, including the U.S. Open, Woods has knee surgery to remove fluid around his ACL. It's the second time in eight years he's gone under the knife.
3. [b]April 2008 -[/b] Following a second-place finish at the Masters, Woods decides to have arthroscopic surgery on his left knee to repair cartilage damage, just two days after the first major of the year.
4. [b]June 2008 -[/b] He has reconstructive surgery on the ACL in his left knee, also repairing cartilage damage in the process.
5. [b]December 2010 -[/b] Two years after Woods ruptured his Achilles during his knee rehab, Woods reportedly has a cortisone shot in his right ankle.
6. 1999, Woods has first Lasik eye surgery treatment.
7. 2007, Woods has second Laser eye surgery
8-10. Woods is treated by Dr Anthony Galea. Most reports indicate 3 instances of Woods engaging in the blood spinning treatment.

Now if you want to challenge me on the Galea treatments, that's fair but Woods has admitted to at least one. So in essence, I said nearly a dozen, I was counting 10. 8 are completely documented. You are completely wrong on the number of eye procedures and trying to play the semantics game between major and minor is beneath you my friend.

Definition by the way...

surgery [b]1. [/b] The branch of medicine that deals with the diagnosis and treatment of injury, deformity, and disease by manual and instrumental means.[b]2. [/b] A surgical [b]operation or procedure[/b], especially one involving the [b]removal or replacement of a diseased organ or tissue.[/b]
[/quote]
First of all you wrote, "who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knee." It's an outright lie and your post just proved it. He had four surgeries on his knee. I forgot about the one when he 18. Then the rest of this post goes on to somehow quantify other procedures on various other parts of his body are somehow to be included in "nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees." How does one claim that Lasik, and it's routine follow up procedure fit into the category of "nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees?"

Galea and cortisone shots are not "surgeries." There as much of a surgery as getting prescribed an antibiotic.

Like I said, pure hyperbole.

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']

As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had [b]nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc.[/b] and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]

Ah Devil, we really have to stoop to the level of misquoting me now? Or is that why you didn't directly quote me in your response.
You were wrong about the number of knee surgeries.
You were wrong about the amount of eye procedures.
Then you deliberately misquote me?

[DevilGolfer]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330460827' post='4396985']
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']

As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had [b]nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc.[/b] and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]

Ah Devil, we really have to stoop to the level of misquoting me now? Or is that why you didn't directly quote me in your response.
You were wrong about the number of knee surgeries.
You were wrong about the amount of eye procedures.
Then you deliberately misquote me?
[/quote]
You lumped procedures into one category, surgeries. I'll give you that I forgot one knee procedure. Somehow you're quantifying Lasik as something on the level of knee surgeries, which he had four of. Lasik doesn't have a lick to do with being athletic, I don't think Tiger is the best athlete on the tour. That belongs to Woodland. Then you went onto quantify other procedures, cortisone, Galea stuff as a surgery. So, I'll even give you Lasik, you're at six "surgeries." How is that anywhere near nearly a dozen unless you're being hyperbolic?

[avrag]

[quote name='Cmega' timestamp='1330209579' post='4375947']
Tiger needs to go back to the way he was living. Either that or he probably will never become great again. He slept with many slutty women which means he absolutely loved the dirty sex he was getting. You know the type of girl you can do whatever you like with( we all love them regardless). He should have never been married. He is the alpha male and the alpha male gets what he wants usually. As long as he wasn't hurting anybody who cares. But he was married and he did hurt people. Including his alpha male mindset. The ambien might have helped his game. Maybe he didn't sleep well and did need it. Whatever he was doing prior to the crash is exactly what he needs to go do now. Now that he's divorced he should call up Jordan & Barkely and go tear it up. Just use a condom. Release the beast!!!!!
[/quote]
Pretty much my thoughts as well, although I would never have dared to explicitely link the "A"-word to his superhuman putting of the past.
I am still amazed that the fact that you did it, did not cause an uproar, and Tiger lovers with torches and pitch-forks storming your house.

[Potatohead]

lol @ cortisone shots and Lasik as surgery

[HCEG1]

Now that Hogan has been brought into this, I feel that there is something of a (potential) meaningful analogy with his and Tiger's 'damaged' bodies

His accident happened when he was 36 years old. He subsequently went on to win multiple tournaments and [i][b]6[/b] of his 9 [/i][i]Majors[/i] (and an additional 13 top 10's in Majors)

His body was certainly beaten up pretty badly, considerably worse than Tiger's

From Wikipedia:

'Hogan and his wife, Valerie, survived a head-on collision with a Greyhound bus on a fog-shrouded bridge, early in the morning, east of Van Horn, Texas on February 2, 1949. Hogan threw himself across Valerie in order to protect her, and would have been killed had he not done so, as the steering column punctured the driver's seat.
This accident left Hogan, age 36, with a double-fracture of the pelvis, a fractured collar bone, a left ankle fracture, a chipped rib, and near-fatal blood clots: he would suffer lifelong circulation problems and other physical limitations. His doctors said he might never walk again, let alone play golf competitively. While in hospital, Hogan's life was endangered by a blood clot problem, leading doctors to tie off the vena cava. Hogan left the hospital on April 1, 59 days after the accident'.

If Ben could bag 6 more majors, there has to be a chance that Tiger can get at least one or two. I personally don't think he will, but there is a possibility.....

[legitimategolf]

Reilly is a major d-bag but that was a good article with some very good and credible insights. Manages to describe Tiger's woes without resorting to the usual tells-us-nothing platitudes. Some of those theories are interesting. Tiger's putting is a major talking point in golf right now but usually golf writers have zero to offer when it comes to the in's and out's of the actual game.

[QMany]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1330427034' post='4394057']
[quote name='QMany' timestamp='1330409565' post='4393655']
[quote name='gators78' timestamp='1330369787' post='4389169']
Excluding a 1947 film reference we think we could give him a run with regards to clubhead speed.

Signed,
Avlaro Quiros, Jhonny Vegas, Bubba Watson, Dustin Johnson, Gary Woodland, Jamie Lovemark, Robert Garrigus, JB Holmes, Jason Kokrak
[/quote]

You answered a challenge about [b]athleticism[/b] with an argument based in swing speed. Not exactly apples and apples.

From a pure athleticism standpoint, I think [b]Tiger would fall somewhere between #2-4 on Tour.[/b]
[/quote]
As always, I come to Golfwrx to learn. When I hear guys talking about a dude on tour, almost 40, who has had nearly a dozen surgeries on his knees, eyes, etc. and then simultaneously hear he is either the most athletic or at worst the 4th most, I find it puzzling.
For the sake of clarity, in your above statement can you detail how you define athleticism, specifically what are the criteria that makes him anywhere from 2-4.
[/quote]

That is my personal opinion, to which I am entitled.

For the sake of clarity, if you would like some kind of quantitative report of athleticism, feel free to take a look:

[url="http://www.golfdigest.com/golf-instruction/2011-09/photos-top-10-tour-athletes#slide=1"]http://www.golfdiges...thletes#slide=1[/url]

That would be the Top 10 Athletes on the PGA as polled by 66 PGA Tour members. I respect their opinions on the matter. The poll places Tiger at #3. Sounds about on par with what I said.

LAWYERED.

Edited to add How I Met Your Mother reference.

[pucci]

Watched Tiger today at the Honda Classic, was hitting it pretty decent - imho - video I got of him on the 12th - note - note me saying nice fade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo[/media]

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

[quote name='Potatohead' timestamp='1330463873' post='4397359']
lol @ cortisone shots and Lasik as surgery
[/quote]
Yep, TDO needs to step away from the game for a little while.

[The Dane]

[quote name='pucci' timestamp='1330480931' post='4399249']
Watched Tiger today at the Honda Classic, was hitting it pretty decent - imho - video I got of him on the 12th - note - note me saying nice fade
[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo"]http://www.youtube.c...h?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo[/url]

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo[/media]
[/quote]

Whoa, that was actually a really great swing. I know it sounds cliche as hell but I really think a problem with tiger lately has simply been trying to swing too hard which causes him to snatch the club in transition and really destroys the free swinging motion of the golf club. Not in this swing though, fantastic rhythm.

[tgtaggie]

I really want to see where he places this week. If he dons a Top 5-10. I wouldn't be too worried. But I think he has to win one of his next four starts...which is normally....

Doral
Bayhill (he is striking the ball a whole lot better this year than this time last year)
The Masters(putting will make the difference that week)
Quail Hollow

Or he could pull a Phil. MC on his next two events and wins The Masters. Stranger things can happen (I wouldn't put anything past Phil this year either).

[jons1]

oh, i thought this was about Tiger Woods going on a hiking expedition, fell down a rocky canyon getting stuck, and having to cut off his arm to free himself and crawl back to safety days later. but no, it's just another freakn bs thread about how he can't swing the golf club again....

[HCEG1]

[quote name='pucci' timestamp='1330480931' post='4399249']
Watched Tiger today at the Honda Classic, was hitting it pretty decent - imho - video I got of him on the 12th - note - note me saying nice fade
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDb7Zdu1kBo[/media]
[/quote]

Nothing wrong with that swing as a fairway-finding go-to kind of shot

Similar to what he was doing in Abu Dhabi for the first three days. On Sunday, as the pressure mounted, it became an ugly lash. Let's see if he can keep it smooth for 4 days

[jimbonecrusher]

[quote name='rafal' timestamp='1329958004' post='4354147']
Looks like a beautiful relationship to me...

[attachment=1037901:tig2.png]
[attachment=1037899:tig1.png]
[/quote]

I definitely would not leave Sean Foley alone with my kids. Not with that outfit. He looks rather "weird". His faulty swing methodology would jack up their golf game more than anything.

[bscinstnct]

Thanks for posting that video!

Doesn't look lost to me, of course, it doesn't mean anything until he is in a tourney.

But tempo, tempo, tempo looks so good, balanced. None of the rushing from the top and diving we see on his bad swings.

The one thing I wonder about is his foot positions. He seems to still have the right foot square and the left foor flared.

Maybe it would be better and easier on his body if he flared each foot our a little.

[tbowles411]

Swing looks pretty good. I want to see him putt though...