Tiger is lost

[herdman]

There is a difference in being ranked according to the system #1 and being the bets golfer in the world.

[farmer]

I agree with Awsi. Tiger looks awkward and uncomfortable with the long clubs. He is in a position that John Jacobs described as "rocker-blocker". I don't know if Haney was good or bad, but he did have Tiger at his physical and mental peak. And, it is possible that for most of that time, prior to Earl's death, that Tiger really was a happy married guy with a couple of kids.

[dalehead]

[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1330102611' post='4366955']


And do what? That's what Jack thought too.... people with over the top obsessive personalities don't generally just change out of the blue. It's not like he can just go coach little league. He's always going to be so in the spot light that his life will never be his own. He will probably just keep chasing the record book because his fame won't really let him do much else.
[/quote]

I cannot answer the question "And do what?" for Tiger.

What I don't think he will do is stick around for a win or two a season, some high finishes, some missed cuts, and a second round elimination in the WGC match play.

[deasy55]

[quote name='herdman' timestamp='1330116307' post='4368845']
There is a difference in being ranked according to the system #1 and being the bets golfer in the world.


[/quote]


Avoiding the question. Who do you think was the best golfer in the world last year?

[The GreekGrind]

Robo-Tiger vs. Just-Tiger.

I'm not sure it's swing mechanics. Tiger's dad raised Tiger to be a robot (not passing judgement on that, I think there are both admirable positives and unfortunate negatives to it).

And that worked for Tiger, all his life even. The Tiger-machine never broke down, slaughtering the competition, annihilating the Tour.

But when it did finally break down, there are some who knew at that moment, the Tiger era was over, and consequences for him as a man, not just a golfer, would be grave.

He’s trying be someone now he's never had to be before, and doesn't know how to be. Human-Tiger.

[rafal]

Agree, except I don't see him trying to be human at all. He is still full of denial especially regarding his putting failures.

[bscinstnct]

[quote name='dalehead' timestamp='1330117003' post='4368925']
[quote name='isaacbm' timestamp='1330102611' post='4366955']


And do what? That's what Jack thought too.... people with over the top obsessive personalities don't generally just change out of the blue. It's not like he can just go coach little league. He's always going to be so in the spot light that his life will never be his own. He will probably just keep chasing the record book because his fame won't really let him do much else.
[/quote]

I cannot answer the question "And do what?" for Tiger.

What I don't think he will do is stick around for a win or two a season, some high finishes, some missed cuts, and a second round elimination in the WGC match play.
[/quote]

Second round eliminations aside, I believe that Tiger loves to play golf and if he feels he can win, he will keep playing.

Who wouldn't want to play a sport for a living? Especially if it entail walking around outside in great vistas and landscapes. It's not like he's gonna get hit by Ray Lewis playing golf.

Also, I don't know how Tiger is doing financially but he probably can't make 70 million a year unless he plays golf at a reasonably high level..

So, theres that.

[herdman]

[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1330117265' post='4368961']



Avoiding the question. Who do you think was the best golfer in the world last year?
[/quote]


I really think Rory was/is the best golfer right now.

[Hattori Hanzo]

I have to agree with the OP that Tiger's swing used to be much more natural, but he's definitely come along way from the Haney days. Regardless of how the swing looks, he's driving it straighter and striking the ball much more cleanly. Now if he would just stop taking the putter away dead shut!

[hardxray]

The Greek Grind is spot on - a human Tiger. Tiger has and battles addiction every day; it is a constant challenge, hence the reason he was in rehab (I know this personally). With addiction you can put it into remission, but it never goes away. He will never be the Tiger of old. He may win more tournys, even a few more majors, but he will never be that guy again. This is a good thing. The human Tiger may actually enjoy whatever life remains for him.

[isaacbm]

[quote name='dalehead' timestamp='1330117003' post='4368925']


I cannot answer the question "And do what?" for Tiger.

What I don't think he will do is stick around for a win or two a season, some high finishes, some missed cuts, and a second round elimination in the WGC match play.
[/quote]
It's a tricky one because he's in a position that no other golfer has ever been. Norman would be the closest but norman was already quite involved in his other business interests by Tiger's age. All Tiger has is golf, his kids, and his foundation. I really think all this "he's done" talk is a little premature but I wonder what he'll do at 45 or 50. don't really see him on the Champions tour.

I have a feeling he'll play 15 events or so per year plus a few other silly season tourney's. I really don't see any reason that he can't win 2 events per year easily. He's almost done that already this year and he sucks according to the critics.

I really find it fascinating how harsh people are towards his game. I don't give a crap about his personal life but his game seems pretty damn good to me. I realize he's compared against his 2000 ability but what people don't seem to get is that he can play half as well as then and still set all the records. Winning 1-3 events per year and one major every 3 years gets it done.

[herdman]

[quote name='hardxray' timestamp='1330120246' post='4369317']
The Greek Grind is spot on - a human Tiger. Tiger has and battles addiction every day; it is a constant challenge, hence the reason he was in rehab (I know this personally). With addiction you can put it into remission, but it never goes away. He will never be the Tiger of old. He may win more tournys, even a few more majors, but he will never be that guy again. This is a good thing. The human Tiger may actually enjoy whatever life remains for him.
[/quote]

What's his addiction? Women? IMO, he is single now. Have at it.

[Vindog]

[quote name='herdman' timestamp='1330118825' post='4369147']
[quote name='deasy55' timestamp='1330117265' post='4368961']
Avoiding the question. Who do you think was the best golfer in the world [b]last year[/b]?
[/quote]


I really think Rory was/is the best golfer right now.
[/quote]

Great!

Now answer the question who was the best golfer last year.

[jons1]

Tiger seems to have one shot shape now, or at least that's how he seems to be playing, so his tee game could get better. But his short game magic seems to be gone (he can't putt as well, like making long bombs and clutch everything he needs for par).

[herdman]

[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330121690' post='4369473']

Great!

Now answer the question who was the best golfer last year.
[/quote]

I did. Rory was the best golfer last year and right now. Luke was ranked based on the world ranking system. There are better golfers than Luke.
If Luke played Rory 10 times or a hundred times, Rory wins the majority of the matches.

[DWCobraJR]

If Tiger was "lost" he wouldn't be going into the final rounds of tournaments with a chance to win.

He would be missing cuts and falling farther and farther down the world rankings (see David Duval)

Guy had a tough couple of years, and on top of that his knee has betrayed him health wise time and time again. Its hard to fix a swing and learn a new one when you can't rehearse the actions you are supposed to be learning.

As far as Haney getting him off track or starting the decline.......the guy won double digit majors when he was going down the wrong track!.....ridiculous statement.

There are thousands of different ways to swing a golf club, for someone to say that there is ONE correct address position is absurd. Guy is progressing as quick as can be expected. Is his swing perfect? No. Is he 100% confident in it yet? No. As evident by his last few outings, everyone knows under pressure if you don't have total confidence in what you are doing (in anything) you are going to crack a little bit. We saw that at Pebble.

I don't know if he will every win at the clip he used to.For someone to say he is on the wrong track is completely unfounded as you can look at his results and see he is getting better.

That said, I love Tiger

[corky]

[quote name='herdman' timestamp='1330131126' post='4370497']
[quote name='Vindog' timestamp='1330121690' post='4369473']

Great!

Now answer the question who was the best golfer last year.
[/quote]

I did. Rory was the best golfer last year and right now. Luke was ranked based on the world ranking system. There are better golfers than Luke.
If Luke played Rory 10 times or a hundred times, Rory wins the majority of the matches.
[/quote]


Define 'Better Golfer'....

[hbgpagolfpro]

[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1329977958' post='4356625']
I've never been a fan of Foley, especially the way he has single handily destroyed Woods short game, but his over all approach isn't that bad....for the right player.
The problem I see with his relationship with Woods comes down to the essence of his robotic mechanical swing direction and it's application to someone like Woods who IMO was a tremendous "feel," player. You can see Woods constantly fighting himself to stay in the box Foley wants him to be in, his photo points in the swing, and become a human iron byron. This is never who Woods was. Woods at his best played on emotion and was able to conjure shots and swings that were purely products of the imagination, and he was the best at doing this since Seve. Foley has taken all this away.
Now some people I believe just don't like Foley or Woods and base a lot of their opinion on that. In fact most see Foley as a golf version of the creepy guy with the video camera from Mulholland Drive. I believe that Foley and Woods are both compotent on their own, but a terrible combination. It would be preferable for Woods to go off on his own and develop a swing by himself. He's won 14 majors and he's capable of doing this. He doesn't need a teacher.
[/quote]
Totally agree with this. I've said this before...if I were Tiger's coach I would've handed him a 4 iron last year and told him to go play golf...when you are shooting under par consistently with just a 4 iron, you are ready. His creative genius is being lost to the robot he is trying to create. His thoughts on why he is putting poorly suggest to me he is all about mechanics now. I can't imagine Crenshaw ever made comments about his own putting like Tiger made yesterday.

[Vindog]

[quote name='herdman' timestamp='1330131126' post='4370497']I did. Rory was the best golfer last year and right now. Luke was ranked based on the world ranking system. There are better golfers than Luke.
If Luke played Rory 10 times or a hundred times, Rory wins the majority of the matches.
[/quote]

Well it's only your opinion then, because the facts are not on your side, for 2011

We can't qualify hypotheticals of future matches, but we can go by results of last year, which is what we're talking about.

[boriqua'72]

[quote name='Golfnutgalen' timestamp='1330054548' post='4364079']
Another frustrating week for Tiger fans, but there are signs of him getting better. First and foremost, his bunker play, both fairway and greenside, looks to be a million times better than the last two years. Secondly, he's hitting the ball long again, 350 for the longest drive on one of the holes and mid irons over 200 yards. The worst part of his game appears to be putting and chipping, that's the only area which needs serious work, especially chipping.
[/quote]

Except he never had a problem with his bunker play or his short game or his putting. He created those problems fro himself when he started messing with his "release points".

[DriveIt"N"3Putt]

[quote name='boriqua'72' timestamp='1330142552' post='4371661']
[quote name='Golfnutgalen' timestamp='1330054548' post='4364079']
Another frustrating week for Tiger fans, but there are signs of him getting better. First and foremost, his bunker play, both fairway and greenside, looks to be a million times better than the last two years. Secondly, he's hitting the ball long again, 350 for the longest drive on one of the holes and mid irons over 200 yards. The worst part of his game appears to be putting and chipping, that's the only area which needs serious work, especially chipping.
[/quote]

Except he never had a problem with his bunker play or his short game or his putting. He created those problems fro himself when he started messing with his "release points".
[/quote]
His putting has been shaky since the hydrant, remember the masters? He was in the thick of it and then couldn't make a putt of any real length.

[Redhill]

Eldrick's putting on the 18th green yesterday was a gem. Airball from 4 feet. Missed a total of 3 putts from inside 10' on the last 6 holes. BVut the one on 18 was a monster CHOKE.

[The Dane]

He needs to stop thinking about his body and simply focus on the club. If he simply focuses on the club rather than body positions his body will know what to do.

[tigers9iron]

if tiger were lost he would be shooting 80 78 and missing cuts. his record since november in AUS is actually great. he basically owns his new swing at this point and its all putting. when, if and to what extent it returns, who knows??? and that will determine his level of success moving forward. if he truly is a sex addict then his daily struggles away from golf are immense, i dont know where he stands in that regard. the putting is very concerning and could be mental and or physical.

[The Dane]

[quote name='tigers9iron' timestamp='1330149681' post='4372329']
if tiger were lost he would be shooting 80 78 and missing cuts. his record since november in AUS is actually great. he basically owns his new swing at this point and its all putting. when, if and to what extent it returns, who knows??? and that will determine his level of success moving forward. if he truly is a sex addict then his daily struggles away from golf are immense, i dont know where he stands in that regard. the putting is very concerning and could be mental and or physical.
[/quote]

uhhhhh... did you watch any of his shots this week? He absolutely does not own his swing.

[Ranger Rick]

I don't think he owns the swing, I don't think he is finished working through it with Foley either but he is generally hitting the ball well enough to put him in positions to win. His short game also isn't as sharp as it once was but I think by the time Doral comes around he will be much better, remember he has played 2 tournaments with pretty tough green complexes. Doral is much flatter, will be much easier to see if his game is actually there. It is his putting that has lost it for him. His problem is once he is on the green. giving up 1,47 putts per round is not good enough. You can not be the best golfer in the world and win majors when you are losing 6 (5,88) Shots per tournament to an "average" putter. Ben Crane is gaining 6 shots a tournament to put that into perspective. 12 shots is a lot to make up for with your iron game only. Also his proximity to the whole with wedges has been pretty weak.

An interesting video from last year [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov3kJbt7dKI&feature=related"]about some of the differences, or lack thereof, in his swing.[/url]

[DLiver]

This thread made me curious enough to look at Tiger's stats for the year, and I was a little surprised at how good they were. His ball striking stats are actually pretty good. He is 4th in driving accuracy (!), 8th in GIR, 7th in scoring average and 11th in birdie average.

The [b]glaring fail[/b] is in putting (as others have said). He is 180th in the telling "strokes gained" putting stat. IOW, he is giving up 1.5 strokes per round on the greens to the average tour pro. He is giving up nearly 3 strokes per round to the putting leaders! Wowza. He just can't get the ball in the hole.

The longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be for him to recover. There have been players who have recovered from deep putting slumps (Retief Goosen comes to mind), but I don't know if we will ever see the old dominating Tiger again.

[Ranger Rick]

[quote name='DLiver' timestamp='1330172743' post='4372845']
This thread made me curious enough to look at Tiger's stats for the year, and I was a little surprised at how good they were. His ball striking stats are actually pretty good. He is 4th in driving accuracy (!), 8th in GIR, 7th in scoring average and 11th in birdie average.

The [b]glaring fail[/b] is in putting (as others have said). He is 180th in the telling "strokes gained" putting stat. IOW, he is giving up 1.5 strokes per round on the greens to the average tour pro. He is giving up nearly 3 strokes per round to the putting leaders! Wowza. He just can't get the ball in the hole.

The longer this goes on, the harder it is going to be for him to recover. There have been players who have recovered from deep putting slumps (Retief Goosen comes to mind), but I don't know if we will ever see the old dominating Tiger again.
[/quote]

Exactly as I said, partly I think it is also due to his proximity to the whole with wedges being so poor but also because his stroke isn't the same. Watch his practice strokes, they are quick and forced, he tries to hold the face open on it, almost as if he is trying to push the ball. His old stroke used to be much slower and more rhythmical. It used to be a metronome, now it is a seismometer.

If I could get into the Tiger camp and just try say one thing to him (I know who am I to tell a man with 14 majors what to do with his game, but Earl Woods never won a major, neither has Butch or Haney and they seemed to do pretty well with him) it would be Tiger pick up the Cameron, grip it reverse overlap like you have for I don't know how many years. Step up to the ball, look at the hole, at the ball, at the hole, at the ball, the slightest forward press and now let it flow.

Rotella said that if you weren't worried about the ball missing or going in, you had a greater chance of getting it in than if you were fretting over it dropping. So imagine how good you would be if you knew the ball was going in, you didn't even have to worry about it. That was the Tiger of old. The Tiger today worries about the ball going in.

[forgedforever]

Quite simply, it appears that Tiger has lost the ability to [i]will the ball into the hole.[/i]
[i]
[/i]
Also, since his father is gone and Tiger is now divorced, who exactly makes up his support system?

[i]
[/i]
[i]
[/i]

[Vindog]

[quote name='forgedforever' timestamp='1330177238' post='4373035']
Quite simply, it appears that Tiger has lost the ability to [i]will the ball into the hole.[/i]
[i]
[/i]
Also, since his father is gone and Tiger is now divorced, who exactly makes up his support system?

[i]
[/i]
[i]
[/i]
[/quote]

In Braavos they would be called [i]courtseans[/i]...