At what limit should slow play = partial refund?

[Rockminer]

Until courses post and enforce slow play rules, this will never change. 75% of people who play casual golf don't know how long, or didn't know there was a preffered time to finish. Golf courses don't seem to care about it. If they can squeeze an extra group in every hour it's more money for them. I know there are exceptions to the rule but if the course doesn't care, why should it's patrons.

[JWells]

[quote name='HoffTTM' timestamp='1343696400' post='5381154']
You shouldn't get a refund. The course should enforce a pace of play policy strictly and just throw people off and ban them, ensuring a good product for people who enjoy a sub 4 hour round of golf.
[/quote]

Yeah that would be great for the game, let's make even less people play so courses can cost even more money.

I would love to see this at a private club, the marshal would be fired so fast his head would spin

[Johnny]

no refunds.. you should inquire about the pace of play before paying for the round... no one guarantees round in under XXX time....

[RainShadow]

I Draw the line at 2:50 for 9 holes. I'll go in after nine a complain and ask for a refund. Usually get it.
I believe it shouldn't take longer than 4 1/2 hrs to play a round. 5hrs is excruciatingly slow, but I guess that's the norm on weekends.
Any more than that is really unacceptable. My .02

[Yuck]

Slow play is cultural and differs from place to place. I have played crowded public courses where 4 hours would be max for a bunch of old dudes shooting 110. Of all of the places I have lived, Michigan and California were the "slowest", where 5 hours plus on a weekend was "acceptable", so most groups don't seemed inclined to pick up the pace. I have lived in a few other states where over four hours and everyone is on the phone to the proshop.

[Dizz]

How do you know they didn't have a ranger? Just because you didn't see one? Were you a twosome? I work in a shop and the number of twosomes that call the pro shop on a weekend morning playing behind all foursomes is pretty frequent. I would suggest playing on the weekend and getting 4 players and actually playing a match or similar... or playing in one of the first two or three groups. I agree six hours is awful but if you're going out prime time on a weekend morning you have to be prepared to play slow or you're gonna be pissed off all day. I know tons of twosomes complain about slow play when its really on 4 hour pace but feels much slower playing behind all fours... can't even imagine playing two for that amount of time.

[larrybud]

On two separate occasions I have gone in after 9 and gotten a rain check. If the first 9 takes 3 hours, it isn't getting any faster after that. I don't think it's out of the question, anymore than sitting on the tarmac for 5 hours is acceptable.

[502 to Right]

The downside to living in Wisconsin is that there's no golf at least 4 months of the year. The upside is plenty of nice courses that are not overplayed. 3.5 hours is normal for me. 4 hours is slow. I have not paid more than $50 for a round of golf all year (and most are $30).

But I played in SoCal near my in-laws while visiting for Christmas. 6 hour round. Wow. I'd quit the game if I had to suffer through 6 hour rounds. I'm not even kidding.

[Justin_Ellis]

Not exactly the same situation but I went out after work a few weeks back around 6pm at Jamestown Park here in NC. Paid for 9 holes and walked out the the 1st tee. There were 5 groups waiting to go off. No big deal I just headed to the 10 tee where lo and behold 4 more groups of 4 were waiting. Walked right back inside and requested a rain check. Guy asked what the deal was and I said bluntly I did not have 3 hours to spend playing 9 holes that afternoon. They gave me no issue with giving me a rain check. I combat this by only playing the first tee time of the day on which ever courses I am going to play on the weekend, and only the ones that don't double tee. My playing partner and I played 18 two weeks ago starting at 7am before 9:15.

[Mathews]

Hacks like myself are just too proud to let others play through..
I didnt know an 18 hole round over 5 hours was even possible..

[barkydog1]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343678596' post='5379348']
[quote name='pssywgn' timestamp='1343674061' post='5378886']
[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]

I think the location above: "Los Angeles" has a lot to do with your response. Probably a lot of people out that way with "entitlement issues" and "the world spins for me" kind of crap.

Let me tell you buddy, if you think it's ok for 18 holes in a cart to take 6 hours, condoning that kind of crap is being part of the problem.

These people come out on the course and think, "I've paid my $$ to play, now this course is mine to do as I wish." I don't know what planet people like that live on who think it is their right to take 1/4 of an entire 24 hour day to ride 18 holes.

This wasn't a little po-dunk muni course. Around here $55 for 18 is in the upper 1/3 of pricing for courses.

Either way, just because I am sharing the course with 120 others, doesn't mean that those 119 have the right to take 6 hours to play 18.

I agree with the above statement that my voice now is to not return, which I won't.

I've played golf around here and in the Sandhills for 20 years, and NEVER in 20 years and probably 500 rounds of golf has it taken me 6 hours to play 18.

I think by that assertion, it would be fair to say 6 hours is unnacceptable on any level.
[/quote]

No, I don't think it's ok. But living where I live I accept it. There is no point to whine about it. I mention to the starter that the round took 6 hours. There is nothing more I can do except not go to slow courses, Chester Washington being one of them, after a 7 hour round I walked in and said, "That took 7 hours, I'm never coming back." Did that do anything? No, the place is still packed with 5 somes all day.

But, if you have been playing for 20 years and never had a 6 hour round consider your self extremely lucky. I have played for 3 years and more than half my rounds are around 6 hours, I am thrilled when a round takes 5 hours.

Your original question about a refund... I still say you have no right to a refund, but you absolutely have a right to voice your complaint and never return. If more people started doing that, then maybe 6 hour rounds will vanish.

Would you like to know the real reason LA has long rounds? It's because this place is insanely over populated, tee times are 6-7 minutes apart, most muni courses put out 5 somes, and people suck at golf.
[/quote]
Dude, I think you need to take a drive about 45 min. North...There are probably 10 courses where, on a weekday, you can be done in 3 hours.

[dporto]

Your only recourse is to not play there in the future - and also mention it to all your friends who may care. The strange thing about pace of play is that it hurts the course too - but in many cases they don't seem to care. Most of the courses I play at have rangers that do nothing except ride around in carts and empty the water coolers at 5:00 (when it's 90 degrees at 6:30 and light 'till 8:30...)... You'd think that if they're paying these guys that they'd actually want them to do something...go figure!

[scotchblade]

I'm a marshal at a busy club with a large membership. Despite the awareness of slow play, I see groups fall behind the group in front (a hole) and have groups waiting on them all the time. When I approach to give them a nudge, they have a blank look as if they had no clue. Some people are just like that. Others are completely aware and make a conscious effort to keep pace. The pro shop has my back so after the first reminder and no change, I call and they come out.

But isn't the question about a refund? It wouldn't hurt to go in after nine with your complaint and ask.

[Big Ben]

I think you are right, I honestly get the feeling some folks just do not realize pace of play is actually questioned, nuts!

[scratchswinger]

There is a local course here that gives you a 50% coupon if your round takes over 5 hours.

[Rockminer]

I think there are two kinds of people in this. ( IMO )

1. The golfer who is told that pace of play will be stictly enforced. It's up to the course to then enforce this, and if not, patron's will assume that this rule is not that important .

2. Poeple who play for fun and were never told and have no clue about pace of play.

If the course expects it's patron to act a certain way then they need to post such, in a clear manner for all to see, then enforce it. Most everyone on this site knows about etiquette, but we are the exception.

OP. If the course states that a round should take x amount of time, then you should get a refund. Maybe they would give you a refund anyway. ( keep the customer happy ) Ultimately you talk with your wallet.

[3_Jack_Par]

I was comped my next round twice in the span of two weeks, which happened to be the two longest rounds I've ever experienced (aside from charity scrambles) -- 5:30 one weekend and 5:45 the next -- at two different courses. The first one, we were behind an outing of obnoxious drunks, and the second one I have no idea what the problem was, but it was ridiculous. The first time, I went into the pro shop after the round just to mention that the pace of play was atrocious, and to tell them that they should really have someone out there to keep people moving (respectfully, not in a confrontational way). This was at one of the higher-end courses in Metro Detroit. They apologized and explained that they'd had a ton of problems with that outing, and gave us a voucher for our next round, without us asking for it. The next time out, the pace was much more reasonable. The other time, my buddy went in afterward and I'm not sure what he said, but they did the same thing.
If the pace of play is ridiculous (5+ hours, IMO), I'll go into the shop to mention it after the round (or at the turn if it's feasible). The last time I did that was last year, when I played a course where they had 4 sets of tees -- red, green, white, and blue, where the blues were about 7000 yards, the whites are 6700, and the greens are around 6200. Of course, most average male players immediately head to the whites, so we got to watch the guys in front of us, who had no business playing a 6000 yard course, let alone 6700, hack it up for 5 hours. I just suggested that they should switch the tee colors, because I'm certain that it would speed play immensely. I haven't been back since then, so I have no idea if they considered my suggestion, but I'd be surprised if they did.
I can't imagine that I'd play much golf if I lived somewhere that a 6 hour round is commonplace.

[ruascott]

I saw the slowest group I've ever encountered yesterday...and it was one guy in particular.

I gave them a full 2 hole head start...and caught up to them on #3 green. I pulled up to #4, par 3. They were finishing teeing off.

The last guy tee'd his ball up....Then took about 20 seconds to just stare at the ball. He then took a stance, followed by 2 full deliberative practice swings. He finally lined up and promptly shanked it about 40 yards into the scrub. It was tee most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. They probably took 6 hours without ever waiting on a person.

The good thing is they immediately let me hit up and go through, and they were at least playing the forward men's tees, so really nothing negative to say about them. But i did feel bad for the others playing with this guy. This was at a $100+ course too.

[mozgolf]

vote with your feet and play somewhere else. In reality the refund will never happen, it would be impossible for the course to manage. Put your self in their shoes if you had to deal with people traipsing into the pro shop all day demanding funds back

[Colby327]

I'd be very pleasantly surprised if you were issued a refund. IMO it comes down to whether the course values pace of play, and it seems like this one does not.

If the course was concerned about slow play, then they'd have a ranger out there regulating pace, rather than handing out refunds to people.

And if the course doesn't care about pace, well then, they probably don't care enough to give you money back either. However, I think you were well withing your rights to ask. If you get enough people asking for money back, then maybe they'd start to care a little bit more, and maybe look into hiring a ranger.

[Badgergolfer2]

IMO, 50% should be when you get a partial refund. A couple weeks ago I played a muni where the pace was so slow that it took 7 hours to play 18 and honestly, at that point it wasnt even fun anymore. Needless to say, thats a course that I will not be going to again...

[wingedfoot97]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]

Very true about the LA area!!

[wingedfoot97]

Crapula -

If you have played Chester Washington I can only assume you have played Links at Victoria in Carson (by the 5 Guys). Best to play that one after the time changes lol. At least they have a grass range. Brookside in Pasadena as well as Robinsons Ranch are pretty reasonable with a nice pace of play.

[doodle_cakes]

I rode my dirt bike across the greens the night before a tournament when I went through something similar with a course.

[doodle_cakes]

However, if you are going to do that, I would suggest not yelling in the pro house "screw you, I'm going to ride my dirt bike on your greens on a tournament day if I don't get a refund", since as my lawyer pointed out, that's grounds for intent.

[Eastflava0]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1343743513' post='5383542']
There is a local course here that gives you a 50% coupon if your round takes over 5 hours.
[/quote]

That's just begging for slow play.....

[golfheaven69]

We are first out of the gate and play in 3 hours if not a little under. Would quit the game if 5 or 6 hours was the norm.

[Thug Hunter]

[quote name='pssywgn' timestamp='1343674061' post='5378886']
I think the location above: "Los Angeles" has a lot to do with your response. Probably a lot of people out that way with "entitlement issues" and "the world spins for me" kind of crap.

Let me tell you buddy, if you think it's ok for 18 holes in a cart to take 6 hours, [b]condoning that kind of crap is being part of the problem.[/b]
[/quote]

Ding ding ding.....we have a winner!

Nothing more frustrating than waiting in the fairway as some hacker takes 5 minutes to line up his 20 footer for a quad bogey.

Work on swing drills? That's for the range son!

[Thug Hunter]

[quote name='wingedfoot97' timestamp='1343757498' post='5384714']
[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]

Very true about the LA area!!
[/quote]

I bet the cart girls sell espresso shots from Starbucks. Is Dom carried in the clubhouse?

[scotchblade]

[quote name='golfheaven69' timestamp='1343777369' post='5386676']
We are first out of the gate and play in 3 hours if not a little under.
[/quote]
Bingo. I will tell midday players wondering why it's so slow to come earlier if they want to get around quicker. You can't sleep in and have your less than four hour round too, it just doesn't work that way. The early bird gets the worm!