At what limit should slow play = partial refund?

[pssywgn]

Friend and I had a 10:30 tee time Saturday. From hole 2 and on, pace of play was at best described as "appalling".

 

We chose to drudge onward and eventually quit and drove in before waiting to tee off on #17. We would have been looking at a 6 hour round of 18.

 

In my mind, we were entitled to nothing in terms of a refund for having already played 16. Cool. But let's play hypotheticals here......

 

If we paid for 18, and wanted to quit after 9 due to appalling slow play, should we get a refund to the 9-hole price? What about a full refund after 4 or 6 holes?

 

The course had a snack cart driving around and a starter that all they did was put a checkmark on your receipt and check your arrive to the #1 tee. It was their choice to not have a ranger police pace of play.

 

This place was $55 to play. I've played $25 golf courses that use a ranger.

 

Yes, the golfers are the ones playing slowly, but the course chooses to enforce pace of play or not. I'd like to get feelings on this, because my time is worth something to me. And if it takes 3 hours to play the front, I want to feel like it is within my right to ask for a partial refund and go home after that.

[crapula]

6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.

[Carolina Golfer 2]

Unfortunately the only way you can voice your opinon to the course in a way that matters is by not returning there in the future. If enough people take the same approach they will find theirsleves with a half full (at best) tee sheet and probably still a slow pace of play.

It's up to the course to determine if pace of play is important to them or not. Obviously this course it isn't, so I doubt they would give you a refund under any of the scenarios you mentioned. Refunds/rainchecks are always an individual course policy.

That said I was playing a round at Tobacco Road (in North Carolina) about 4 or 5 years ago. They had a fog delay in the morning and tee times got backed up. it was not their fault, it was mother natures. However, the pace came to a complete crawl and took well over 5 hours.

However, the GM of the course was out on his golf cart stopping at each foursome and personally apologizing for the pace and said they were doing every thing they could to try and get it back on pace..they had rangers helping look for balls, they had the pro shop guys out raking the bunkers on holes close to the clubhouse. Then he handed out a voucher for a complimentary round of golf in the future, to each person in the group. NOW...that's a course and an GM that get it!!

[The Grifter]

Slow play has been an issue since the beginning of golf and it’s not going to change. Spend your time doing swing drills, thinking about how to better your game, if you’re out there for 6 hours, make the most of it and get over it.

[pssywgn]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]

I think the location above: "Los Angeles" has a lot to do with your response. Probably a lot of people out that way with "entitlement issues" and "the world spins for me" kind of crap.

Let me tell you buddy, if you think it's ok for 18 holes in a cart to take 6 hours, condoning that kind of crap is being part of the problem.

These people come out on the course and think, "I've paid my $$ to play, now this course is mine to do as I wish." I don't know what planet people like that live on who think it is their right to take 1/4 of an entire 24 hour day to ride 18 holes.

This wasn't a little po-dunk muni course. Around here $55 for 18 is in the upper 1/3 of pricing for courses.

Either way, just because I am sharing the course with 120 others, doesn't mean that those 119 have the right to take 6 hours to play 18.

I agree with the above statement that my voice now is to not return, which I won't.

I've played golf around here and in the Sandhills for 20 years, and NEVER in 20 years and probably 500 rounds of golf has it taken me 6 hours to play 18.

I think by that assertion, it would be fair to say 6 hours is unnacceptable on any level.

[lsf_21]

Why would you quit on 17? You played that long so whats another 30 minutes to finish the round?

[somaplr]

[quote name='lsf_21' timestamp='1343674066' post='5378888'] Why would you quit on 17? You played that long so whats another 30 minutes to finish the round? [/quote]

+1

That kinda killed me

[Tarkata]

Weekend golf can be terminal.especially at public courses, and heaven help if Tiger is contending that weekend.

[Eastflava0]

6 hours for a round is absolutely ridiculous.... I've played many cali courses that do less than that with 5somes.

Also depends on the golf course. I played a round at Mansion Ridge ($129), it took almost 6 hours to play, that at the end of the round they gave us a voucher for a free round. Unfortunately no county course or crappy muni course is going to do that. (Oh and Pebble Beach, where a 6 hour round is probably normal, but then again, its Pebble).

[Eastflava0]

[quote name='lsf_21' timestamp='1343674066' post='5378888']
Why would you quit on 17? You played that long so whats another 30 minutes to finish the round?
[/quote]

Yeah maybe on a normal round it would be at most 30 minutes, but this took over 6. That's like another 45 to 60 mins!

A round of golf with a foursome should take no more than 4 hours and 30 minutes, no matter if you shoot 72 or 102.

[Tarkata]

If the course doesnt provide marshalls to regulate slow play, obviously they are a Republican course where oppresive regulation has been stripped away leaving the meat hook reality that is unfettered capitalism.

[Solutions Etcetera]

I play a mountain course in a town of about 2500 and there is still slow play. Last week I was in the fairway, kicked back in the cart with my feet up waiting for the green to clear. It had been this way since the third hole. Marshall comes by and says it is open two holes ahead and I can skip if I want. I ask "why are they playing so slow?" he says "it is a tough course, especially for newbies".

I skip two holes and do not see another sole on the course until the turn. So why wasn't the group on the second hole I skipped asked to keep up or pick up? Because even if there are marshals, they rarely want to risk pissing off paying customers.

Even on weekdays I see 5 hour rounds here, and am happy when I can get through in less than that this time of year. I am afraid we'll all have to learn to live with it.

[crapula]

[quote name='pssywgn' timestamp='1343674061' post='5378886']
[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]

I think the location above: "Los Angeles" has a lot to do with your response. Probably a lot of people out that way with "entitlement issues" and "the world spins for me" kind of crap.

Let me tell you buddy, if you think it's ok for 18 holes in a cart to take 6 hours, condoning that kind of crap is being part of the problem.

These people come out on the course and think, "I've paid my $$ to play, now this course is mine to do as I wish." I don't know what planet people like that live on who think it is their right to take 1/4 of an entire 24 hour day to ride 18 holes.

This wasn't a little po-dunk muni course. Around here $55 for 18 is in the upper 1/3 of pricing for courses.

Either way, just because I am sharing the course with 120 others, doesn't mean that those 119 have the right to take 6 hours to play 18.

I agree with the above statement that my voice now is to not return, which I won't.

I've played golf around here and in the Sandhills for 20 years, and NEVER in 20 years and probably 500 rounds of golf has it taken me 6 hours to play 18.

I think by that assertion, it would be fair to say 6 hours is unnacceptable on any level.
[/quote]

No, I don't think it's ok. But living where I live I accept it. There is no point to whine about it. I mention to the starter that the round took 6 hours. There is nothing more I can do except not go to slow courses, Chester Washington being one of them, after a 7 hour round I walked in and said, "That took 7 hours, I'm never coming back." Did that do anything? No, the place is still packed with 5 somes all day.

But, if you have been playing for 20 years and never had a 6 hour round consider your self extremely lucky. I have played for 3 years and more than half my rounds are around 6 hours, I am thrilled when a round takes 5 hours.

Your original question about a refund... I still say you have no right to a refund, but you absolutely have a right to voice your complaint and never return. If more people started doing that, then maybe 6 hour rounds will vanish.

Would you like to know the real reason LA has long rounds? It's because this place is insanely over populated, tee times are 6-7 minutes apart, most muni courses put out 5 somes, and people suck at golf.

[Veng]

If I had to deal with constant 6 hour rounds, i'd quit.

I choose times when the course won't be busy so I don't play at those speeds.

[MadGolfer76]

Quit on 17, huh?

Why do I get the feeling that OP actually went into the pro shop (after 16) and asked for a refund, got told "no," and then came home and started this thread?

[andef]

6 hours is unacceptable. I played in a skins game last week and we played as a group of 8 for most of the round. The course was empty, so we didn't slow anyone down and the only single that was behind us was waved through as soon as we saw him. On hole 14, the club's GM joined us and we finished the round together in no more than 5 hours. We did have two carts, so only 4 people walked, but I still feel this was a reasonable time to play considering we took a 10 minute break on the 9th to grab some snacks and, most importantly, having the entire group tee off took ages.

[Big Ben]

I would shoot myself before I played a 6hr round, I will only play first off or twilight tee times at muni's, last weekend we played a 5 ball first off at 6:15am and finished in 3.5hrs easy, what are all of these people doing????? There is NO EXCUSE for a round lasting longer than 4hrs, zero. I could make steaks on the grill and read the paper at the turn and still finish in under 4hrs...BB

[Jamboy72]

The fact we have some people who think a 5+ hr. round is okay is a huge part of the problem IMO...I play a regular money game with 12-20 guys and if it takes longer than 4 hrs people start getting antsy...we're usually done in sub 4 hours...I honestly don't understand how you can take 5 hours to play a round of golf...blows my mind...

[Solutions Etcetera]

You've never played behind someone who takes five hours or more to play around of golf?

[JWells]

[quote name='crapula' timestamp='1343673594' post='5378824']
6 hours? That's it?

If you are unhappy with that courses pace of play, don't play there.

6 hours is normal in Los Angeles on a weekend starting after 8am. Hell, I'll play a 5 hour round during the week starting at 6am.

You share the course with 120 strangers, get over slow play or don't play those courses.

You have no right to ask or receive a refund. Sure, there are times I wish it was possible, but seriously, get real.
[/quote]
Read my mind, I play in the Washington DC metro area

[FriedEgg]

I'm surprised they didn't ask you for more $$$ since y'all were out there so long....

[Llortamaisey]

Not sure if someone should be offered a refund for suffering through slow play but I think the offending party should be charged more.

I know when I go to the Apple Spa they charge me more when it takes longer for me to relax.

[pssywgn]

I had to be somewhere. That's why we quit on 17. With even a 5 1/2 hour round, we could have finished and been fine. But 6 hours and I would have been late.

I think we've covered it all from both ends of the spectrum.

At this point I don't care if people think 6 hours is reasonable or not. I'm just going to make a decision after 9 holes if it ever happens again. For this course, it was a fair assumption before playing a single hole that the place had marshals or something given they had a starter, snack cart, and ton of other personel on the course.

Whatever, I'm done now. Maybe it won't happen again for 20 years.

[Jamboy72]

I have, but I don't get it...there is absolutely no reason for it...I'd love to hear someone tell why it can/should take this long...

[Veng]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1343682813' post='5379868']
I have, but I don't get it...there is absolutely no reason for it...I'd love to hear someone tell why it can/should take this long...
[/quote]
Because they had to plumb the 2' putt from both sides, after he just watched his buddy hit the same putt from 3', who plumbed it from both sides, after watching his buddy hit it from 4' and plumbing it from both sides as well.

Oh, and they are also the group that lasers each ball in the fairway to see who's furthest, and then confirms it with GPS. Then they laser it again when it's thier turn because they forgot. Then they start to get out a club.

[cstav]

6 hours is not acceptable. There is no fun in standing around. Depending on what course we play on the weekend if we don't have a time before 8am, we don't play.

[Solutions Etcetera]

[quote name='topekareal' timestamp='1343682813' post='5379868']
I have, but I don't get it...there is absolutely no reason for it...I'd love to hear someone tell why it can/should take this long...
[/quote]

I can tell you why it CAN take that long, but for the life of me not for why it should.

On my home course it starts with spending five minutes to look for your ball… on practically every hole! If you're not in the fairway there is a 50/50 chance it is gone… drop another and hit. But alas, no. Folks have to go prospecting up a mountain to save that stroke (or ball). But even if they find it, they'll be faced with a ball two feet above their feet in one to three feet of fescue. Its gonna take them AT LEAST one just to get out, so why not drop a fresh one to a spot you can actually make a shot from. I see it everyday… trying to make a heroic shot they have one chance in a thousand of pulling off, and then back to searching for their ball when they don't.

Then there are the folks that are constantly doing nothing but waiting for who's away to hit. And the proverbial put liner-uppers, again not even looking at their lines until they're away.

I won't mention the guys that have only a 50/50 chance of making solid contact off a perfect lie cause, frankly, they are usually faster than the prospector/heroes mentioned above.

[RRFireblade]

Obviously 6 hours is too long but your not entitled to anything unless you were unable to complete the round under fault of the course itself.

Now say you ran out of daylight or something then yea, I would in fact have driven in to the club house and asked for a rain check for another round since they sold me a round yet did not govern play to the point whereas I was able to complete it.

Or something along those lines.

[HoffTTM]

You shouldn't get a refund. The course should enforce a pace of play policy strictly and just throw people off and ban them, ensuring a good product for people who enjoy a sub 4 hour round of golf.

[ew25950]

Nothing wrong at all with asking for a refund (partial) IMO for a dramatically slow paced course. It all depends on how you ask too, approach the staff with respect and just see what happens. Worst case is you get nothing and they don't get your $$ next time as you go elsewhere. I've seen some courses with 8 minute intervals between tee times and that, to me, is simply too short for the average weekend warrior.

Fellow WRX'ers on the other hand...we could all tee it up, pair off in 6'somes with 5 minute splits and be done in 3.5 hours.