Tiger LVP of this Cup!?

[jumpman2600]

Justin rose won the cup for europe.

[m5power]

Tiger is the LVP bc of who he is. He's the alleged #2 in the world and a veteran that everyone should have been able to lean on. Even the pick of Stricker was solely based on the fact that nobody else on the team would want to play with Tiger. So it can be argued that Tiger was at fault for both hIs bad play AND the pick of Stricker. So yeah LVP! LVP!

[MizunoJunky]

[quote name='sefus12' timestamp='1349047589' post='5726331']
The only way anyone could think Tiger was LVP is if they are a combination of a Tiger "hater" and are completely illogical. Tiger played like crap in the alternate shot Fri morning but made 13 birdies in his next two rounds with little to no help from Stricker. He ran into a complete buzz-saw in Colsearts (no US team could have beaten him Fri afternoon) and then had another solid day with little help from Stricker on Saturday. He was making a charge Sunday afternoon until the match became meaningless.

Yes, he didn't win a full point, but there are several Americans who didn't play near as well as Tiger overall but simply had better pairings. That's the cool part about the Ryder Cup. It's not about play compared to all, just play compared to the two people/person you are playing.

Stop with the Tiger bashing. He should have done better but he was nothing close to the worst.
[/quote]

+1
If you watched the Ryder Cup, Tiger played poorly only on Friday morning. No one could stop Colsearts and Stricker and Saturday was playing very Un-Stricker Like. He made 4 or 5 birdies on the back 9 that day.

He didn't win a full point but played well during the Ryder Cup. It was just tough with Stricker struggling. This is a team competition after all.

[lilmike24]

Tiger could only carry stricker so far !

when it comes down to it he still averaged like a 65 in his mathces. Lit it up on the back nine.

[kafka01]

[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1349095159' post='5729523']
Tiger could only carry stricker so far !

when it comes down to it he still averaged like a 65 in his mathces. [b]Lit it up on the back nine.[/b]
[/quote]

Thats nothing new, he always lights it up on some back nine or front nine or on the first two days recently, but strangely never anymore when it really counts.

[MileHighClub]

He is one of three, along with Stricker and Furyk. Those three guys are veterans and were being counted on to provide leadership for the younger guys. All three failed miserably.

[mjtoal]

[quote name='kafka01' timestamp='1349048367' post='5726467']
Times change i guess - quoted from the main thread:

"In 2002 at the Belfry, Philip Price of Europe won the penultimate match against Mickelson to win the cup outright (15 points), and yet the American player in the last group kept on battling against Jesper Parnevik, refusing to let go.
That player was, you guessed it, Tiger Woods...
That match was eventually halved for a 15.5 / 12.5 result "
[/quote]

That was different. They had a side bet that if Tiger won their match, Jesper would introduce him to the Parnevik's hot new nanny, Elin.

[cwglum]

[quote name='kafka01' timestamp='1349046943' post='5726225']
But who else do you want to pair him with? As i understand it, he likes to play with his buddies and he aint got so many and he seems to be a difficult match for others for whatever reasons. Just think of the catastrophical Mickelson/Tiger pairing a couple years ago...
[/quote]

History has proven that it doesn't matter who you pair up Tiger with in 4-ball or 4-somes, his record is flat awful in both formats. 2 of our captains picks this year were geared to appeasing Tiger and his buddy/buddy partners. Both of them were less than impressive this weekend. Here's an idea for a captain's pick in 2014 ... remove Tiger from the team, they're 1-0 without him on the team. All of the captains seem like they worry about keeping him happy ... buy him & his favorite partners plane tickets to Barbados for the next Ryder Cup and let them watch it on TV.

[Gone Right]

While I don't think Tiger was LVP, mainly because of the outstanding credentials of Stricker and Furyk for the award, to suggest that he only played poorly on Friday morning is ridiculous. His front nines in the other two outings prior to the singles were disastrous, and he wouldn't have had too many holes on the back nine to recover if he'd been playing singles. He looked completely out of sorts, and the pressure his mediocre putting is putting on the rest of his game is immense. Some of his driving and approach play would have made a mid handicapper blush. The criticism has much to do with our expectations of the greatest player the game has seen, but he wasn't good even using a much more modest benchmark.

[TheDarkOne]

[quote name='Frankie Lob Wedge' timestamp='1349063866' post='5728529']
[quote name='BassMaster' timestamp='1349063280' post='5728471']
So funny how people will talk about Tiger's bad luck in opponents and then in the same breath kill Stricker, who had the same opponents (and a better one in singles).

Stricker played poorly. Tiger wasn't much better. The front 9 counts too. Just one birdie on the front from Tiger Saturday and they at least halve the match. He's got to beat Molinari as well.

Plenty of blame to go around. Not getting a point is tough to excuse though.
[/quote]

+1 million
The fanbois chime in even though Tiger was 0-4 as well.

This weekend showed the Tiger era is over. Rory is the new Jack. Oversleeps, shows up at the last second and shoots a 65 withh no warmup.
[/quote]

A lot of truth above.
I would also add that you can make a strong case for Woods as LVP as you wouldn’t have had Stricker if it wasn’t for Woods. We all know why Stricker was there. If not for Woods childish requirements of having to have a certain partner to play with, having to pick his time etc, things could have been different they certainly could not have been any worse. It’s amazing that our team has a diva that has that much control over the outcome of structure of the team.

[battermytreble]

I can't wait for Gleneagles in 2014!

Guaranteed Woods will qualify = Easy points for Europe!!

[kafka01]

The same has been said about Kaymer - dont be snotty about it, cuz it will backfire (as we have seen this weekend).

[bobsuruncle]

[quote name='smackygolf' timestamp='1349045374' post='5725951']
[quote name='kafka01' timestamp='1349044875' post='5725853']
Nuff said or this there room to argue?
[/quote]

Not only is there room to argue, people who actually think this should have their head examined.
[/quote]

+1

[Marco]

[quote name='m5power' timestamp='1349069639' post='5728859']
Tiger is the LVP bc of who he is. He's the alleged #2 in the world and a veteran that everyone should have been able to lean on. Even the pick of Stricker was solely based on the fact that nobody else on the team would want to play with Tiger. So it can be argued that Tiger was at fault for both hIs bad play AND the pick of Stricker. So yeah LVP! LVP!
[/quote]

Everybody would wanna play with him, but him not with everyone, big difference

[Sean2]

[quote name='stage1350' timestamp='1349048031' post='5726409']
He got more points than Stricker. Stricker needs to be taken out back and shot.
[/quote]
Nice.

[MileHighClub]

[quote name='Marco' timestamp='1349103221' post='5730303']
[quote name='m5power' timestamp='1349069639' post='5728859']
Tiger is the LVP bc of who he is. He's the alleged #2 in the world and a veteran that everyone should have been able to lean on. Even the pick of Stricker was solely based on the fact that nobody else on the team would want to play with Tiger. So it can be argued that Tiger was at fault for both hIs bad play AND the pick of Stricker. So yeah LVP! LVP!
[/quote]

Everybody would wanna play with him, but him not with everyone, big difference
[/quote]

Unfortunately, this is probably true. He isn't a team player and never has been, and that hurts the team.

[Rosco1216]

WHEN IT COUNTED and the pressure was on.. gotta be Furyk/Stricker with the LVP. Yeah Phil was 1 up to Rose going into 17 but Rose drained those birdie putts and stole it from Phil, Phil didn't give it to him. Stricker and Furyk lost it on the last 2 holes. Steve with the AWFUL chip on 17 and Furyk bogeying both.

hack city, hack hack city.

[cdnglf]

[quote name='Marco' timestamp='1349103221' post='5730303']
[quote name='m5power' timestamp='1349069639' post='5728859']
Tiger is the LVP bc of who he is. He's the alleged #2 in the world and a veteran that everyone should have been able to lean on. Even the pick of Stricker was solely based on the fact that nobody else on the team would want to play with Tiger. So it can be argued that Tiger was at fault for both hIs bad play AND the pick of Stricker. So yeah LVP! LVP!
[/quote]

Everybody would wanna play with him, but him not with everyone, big difference
[/quote]

Fourballs? Sure. Foursomes? Not so sure. Most pros aren't as used to playing out of the trees as he is.

[kellygreen]

[quote name='hbgpagolfpro' timestamp='1349057626' post='5727863']
Future captains are going to need to really think hard about choosing a scarred veteran over the young guns. Unfortunately, none of the young guns on the U.S. side that were not already on the team were playing well. DLIII did the best he could, but Tiger should have gone out first to set the tone. He asked to play last, which makes no sense.
[/quote]

Going out last makes you the closer.

He was put there so that an experienced, pressure-resistant player was there to nail things down for the US Team if the Europeans managed to fight their way back into the matches. It was a very reasonable strategic move.

Tiger had NO way of knowing that his team-mates would lose ALL of the first four matches...and then stumble so badly that the Cup would already be decided before his match came down the stretch.

DLIII sent the REIGNING MASTERS CHAMPION, and 7th ranked player in the world out as his first player to "set the tone"....and he lost.

...as did the reigning US Open Champion.

...as did last years PGA Champion.

...as did Phil Mickelson.

All a coach or a captain can do is put the RIGHT people in the right places...but he cannot make them perform as expected. There was no reason for DLIII to expect that his first four players on Sunday would throw up a big GOOSE EGG on points.

[swbyps]

Poor..no. Average..yes. The fact that he made 13 birdies in his second two team matches says that he played well there. But typically you can't win in those formats without help from your partner, and Stricker did not contribute enough. Especially when you consider what Colsearts was doing. The problem is,our expectation is that its Tiger and he should just make it happen. Well RC history shows that in team matches his record is less than stellar. In singles, he's pretty damn good. The fact is, there is plenty of blame to go around for a colapse like that. Tigers play didn't seem to matter because the team managed to be up 10-6 regardless going into singles.

[moonshine]

Just because someone asks an obvious question about Mr. Woods it does not constitute bashing. IMO, karma won yesterday. Too much crowd taunting, fist pumping and jumping up and down early on. Celebrate early, lose late. Sneds should have been hot, Bradley, Webb all should have been better. If L3 did let TW pick, big mistake IMO. Take the reigns and make some decisions. Bubba said himself they played poorly Sat morning and then he did nothing to help Webb in the afternoon. For him to go out first, he did not even look as if he wanted to be there.

I predict RM jumps out of the car last round and wins at least two majors that way next year.

[tbowles411]

[quote name='swbyps' timestamp='1349105374' post='5730539']
Poor..no. Average..yes. The fact that he made 13 birdies in his second two team matches says that he played well there. But typically you can't win in those formats without help from your partner, and Stricker did not contribute enough. Especially when you consider what Colsearts was doing. The problem is,our expectation is that its Tiger and he should just make it happen. Well RC history shows that in team matches his record is less than stellar. In singles, he's pretty damn good. The fact is, there is plenty of blame to go around for a collapse like that. Tigers play didn't seem to matter because the team managed to be up 10-6 regardless going into singles.
[/quote]
THIS. Regardless of who to blame, you have to believe that someone can get 4 1/2 points. Snedeker was steamrolled. Phil was just plain beaten by chip-ins and out-of-body putting. Furyk couldn't get out of his own way (he got multiple chances) and Stricker and his putting was just surprising. Mr. Consistency wasn't. Webb just was outmatched and Keegan ran out of gas. Bubba bombing it was great and all, but when you put stellar ball striking against him, it's hard to make up for. I didn't expect us to win going in, but got caught up in the 10-6 thing. They wanted it more. Period.

[CincyCreech]

My Viewpoint..

We had a 10-6 lead with most of the US players going into sunday playing well. Europe made the putts that counted.. Mickelson didn't play poorly, nobody could of stopped Justin Rose of the last 3 holes simple. Furyk should have beaten Sergio, but Furyk's putting was awful to say the least. And after giving away the 17th then driving it into the bunker on the 18th just put a cap on it. He set himself up for failure after being in that bunker. I don't think one person believed he was going to make that putt. Also makes you feel for Furyk and the year he has had. Stricker had a really bad week.. Then Kuchar should have shut down Westwood. I mean Westwood has played awful for sometime now. But i mean there is really nothing else to say but Europe really shut us down. I will say this was a really exciting Ryder Cup... Medinah put on a show..

[pedarius]

Not a Tiger fan, but I don't think there's any way he could fairly be called LVP of the Cup, unless you're grading him on a pretty steep curve of expectations based on his past dominance. It was a pretty uneven tournament for him--bad round Friday morning, followed by singlehandedly keeping it close against Colsaerts's freakshow round Friday afternoon, and a weak front followed by strong back nine Saturday afternoon.

Yesterday was the same. You could argue that old Tiger would have boosted his team immensely by dusting off a guy like Molinari at 5&4 from the anchor spot, and Tiger didn't have that kind of stuff in him this week obviously. I will say, though, that I was sitting on 17 green for every shot there yesterday, and out of all of them Tiger was the ONLY guy to take dead aim at that tight pin over 210 yards of wind and water and actually execute the shot (and very few others even tried). Phenomenal shot that took nerves of steel considering the outcome was very much hinging on his match at that point.

Tiger's not the same, maybe, but he's not "done," either.

[Frankie Lob Wedge]

[quote name='lilmike24' timestamp='1349095159' post='5729523']
Tiger could only carry stricker so far !

when it comes down to it he still averaged like a 65 in his mathces. Lit it up on the back nine.
[/quote]

If Tiger was good than he would have won at least one team match. Stricker had an Eagle - Tiger did not. Tiger should have won the Molnari match as Molinari is probably the weakest player on the Euro side. Franceso played well. Tiger's day is done. A great golfer at the rider was McIlroy who is now the best player in the world.

The most consistent on the US side was Zach, Duffner, and Keegan. DJ gets an honorable mention for winning yesterdat against a very good NIcholas C.

[bossman641]

Tiger definitely wasn't the LVP, but he was a disappointment. I don't understand him wanting to play in the final group, and I really don't understand him struggling against Molinari. I believe he only had 1 bird on Sunday? That's not getting it done.

[Seve007]

Check out the grades at GolfChannel
[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/ryder-cup-report-card-team-usa-2012/"]http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/ryder-cup-report-card-team-usa-2012/[/url]

Tiger gets a D, so does Furyk
Strick gets an F

Pretty accurate I think.

[d__d]

[quote name='m5power' timestamp='1349069639' post='5728859']
Tiger is the LVP bc of who he is. He's the alleged #2 in the world and a veteran that everyone should have been able to lean on. [b]Even the pick of Stricker was solely based on the fact that nobody else on the team would want to play with Tiger[/b]. So it can be argued that Tiger was at fault for both hIs bad play AND the pick of Stricker. So yeah LVP! LVP!
[/quote]
[quote name='TheDarkOne' timestamp='1349100211' post='5729933']
A lot of truth above.
I would also add that you can make a strong case for Woods as LVP as you wouldn’t have had Stricker if it wasn’t for Woods. [b]We all know why Stricker was there. If not for Woods childish requirements of having to have a certain partner to play with, having to pick his time etc, things could have been different they certainly could not have been any worse[/b]. It’s amazing that our team has a diva that has that much control over the outcome of structure of the team.
[/quote]

Where is everyone getting the "Stricker was only picked to be Tiger's partner" from? Was it something I missed, or just your assumptions?

[kafka01]

[quote name='Seve007' timestamp='1349115408' post='5731601']
Check out the grades at GolfChannel
[url="http://www.golfchannel.com/news/golftalkcentral/ryder-cup-report-card-team-usa-2012/"]http://www.golfchann...-team-usa-2012/[/url]

Tiger gets a D, so does Furyk
Strick gets an F

Pretty accurate I think.
[/quote]
Hmm - whenever i open up the Newspaper and our soccer team stunk it up again in a World or Euro Cup nobody gets better than E!

I find it kinda amusing how most of them talk about how well they played (Furyk:" I outplayed Sergio....") but then still lost. Kinda illusional. When you think you play good but still cant beat your opponent maybe you are not so good as you think you are.

[Shrapnac]

[quote name='puttingmatt' timestamp='1349047858' post='5726389']
Not quite sure why everyone has to have a fall guy after these team events ??
I know no one here on these boards could better !! Time to can these kind of threads !!!
[/quote]

Puttingmatt has spoken guys, time to shut down the Internet.

No more opinion or discussion allowed.