TaylorMade Booth / Caesar Palache / GolfWRX / Live all week

[preshotroutine]

Wait, wait, wait. Are you telling me that I'm going to have to keep TWO windows open for running Taylormade threads? Man, it's a good thing I have dual moniters at work (I plan on having a WRX page open on both. You didn't think I was going to WORK on one of them did you?). Your play-by-play coverage of your TMag trip was awesome. I can hardly wait for tomorrow!

 

1. What is the evolution of the Speed Pocket?

2. What do they see as the benefit of the adjustable sole plate for face angle vs what other OEMs have done by integrating it into the hosel (Nike and Titleist having the most "adjustability" built in)?

 

Thanks!

 

Speed pocket was the big evolution last year, this year it's the carpenter steel and very very thin face. They were able to incorporate an adjustable sleeve. Beyond that I don't know much about the evolution of the speed pocket in woods.

 

I've got a great answer for you on face angle. As with Zach, they wanted to do a big write up on. Give me time ill write up a good explanation for you tonight

 

Ok Face Angle!!!!!!

 

Straight from the mouth of Tom Pearl head of Metal Woods (or something like that)

 

Loft is measured suspended from the shaft of the club, not soled on the ground. Face angle is measured horizontally when the club is soled, so the sole effects the face angle, depending where the shaft is. By every 2 degrees of loft change, you alter the face by 1 degree. Thats just physics, it not TM physics, it Isaac Newton physics...I think thats the right guy? Its the same for all OEMs. If you alter loft, you alter face angle because the club sit differently on its sole no matter what...unless you have an ASP plate to adjust the face angle by protruding further out closing the face...or being further up in the club opening the face.

 

You cannot, cannot change loft without altering face angle, it is not independent. Not saying an OEM is lying...it just not independent.

 

He explained a lot more, but Tom is a brilliant guy and much smarter then I am so I only could follow so far before my brain exploded.

 

Taylormade uses the ASP plate because face angle is measure when the club in soled on the ground.

 

You can most definitely adjust LIE separately from Face Angle in any of these adjustable hosel devices. And you can get adjustment locations which allow you to change lie AND face angle at the same time. If this following image is large enough you can see that from back in 1995 when I did the first adjustable hosel device, we too understood that by setting the angle of the shaft as rotated in the hosel to an "in between" position, you can change lie and face angle at the same time.

 

Here's that image from the 1995 Golfsmith catalog for the AHT Woods (AHT = Adjustable Hosel Technology) Take a look at the top of the page to see how the lie and face angle can be adjusted by the rotation of the adj hosel piece in the hosel.

 

 

But with any of these adj hosel devices which change the angle of the shaft in the hosel, you cannot, I repeat CANNOT change the LOFT and FACE ANGLE independently of one another.

 

Now I am aware that Nike are claiming to be able to do that in a new model they have. If that is true, then it has to incorporate some other means of separate adjustment for the face other than simply rotating a hosel piece to set the shaft at a different angle in the hosel.

 

TOM

[preshotroutine]

[url="http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=6227943"] [/url]preshotroutine, on 14 January 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:


[color=#282828]Do you think they have invented something that incoroprates some other means of sperate adjustment for the face other than simply rotating a hosel piece to set the shaft at a different angle in the hosel? [/color]

[color=#282828]In my mind it seems imposible! However I know that Mr. Sites is one of the better more respected club designers in the industry. Do you think he has invented something revolutionary? [/color]

I dunno, but if anyone wants to change the loft INDEPENDENTLY of the face angle, it has to be done by making the face on its own adjustable - as in a mechanical way to tilt the face to a different loft.

Here's a link to a patent for such a face design -
[url="http://www.google.com/patents/US5505453?pg=PA37&dq=golf+club+head+with+a+tunable+spring+face&hl=en&sa=X&ei=ICfsUOjLMMi_kgW_jYGoDQ&sqi=2&pjf=1&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=golf%20club%20head%20with%20a%20tunable%20spring%20face&f=false"]http://www.google.co...ng face&f=false[/url]

In this patent, click on the DRAWINGS in the column on the left so you can see how they are describing this is done. It involves using little Belleville washers to "shim" the face to be re attached at a different loft angle. Doubtful that anyone would do this because of two reasons - 1) making a head with all those attachments to allow attaching the face at a different loft would use up a whole lot of the 200 grams of headweight that you have as a limit for the weight of a driver head. so the resulting driver head using this patented technology would have to be fairly small in size, probably not larger than 350-375grams, and that just would never sell in today's market.

2) The Belleville washers used to shim up the face piece to create a different loft are considered to be a form of a "spring". So bet the farm that if anyone brought out a driver like this, it would be ruled to be non conforming under the USGA's "spring face rule" that was first established way back in the 1920s.

At any rate, if anyone has one of these new Nike drivers and wants an honest evaluation of whether their claims about changing loft and face angle independent of each other, I sure would be willing to check it out and send the driver back to whoever owns it - because I am not likely to go out and buy one just to be able to see what they are claiming.

It's important to say that the whole basis for these adjustable hosel pieces which change the angle of the shaft into the hosel goes way back to the days when woods were made from trees and the face angle and lie were created by the angle that you drilled the bore into the hosel. By changing the angle of the drilling machine, that was how you got a closed, open, flat or upright lie. But in no way could you angle the bore into the hosel to change the loft separately and independently from the face angle.

So when you wrench and rotate any of the adjustable hosel pieces from any company, what you are doing is the same thing as what the old clubmakers did when they drilled the bore for the wooden heads by changing the angle they aimed the drill down the hosel.

Hence any design that truly can change loft independent of the face angle would have to do that by making the face with a tilting and locking mechanism. And for a clubhead hit with up to 4,000 lbs of stress on the face, that would be no small engineering task to do.

TOM

PS - but as I said, if anyone has one of the new Nike drivers that claims to change loft independent of face angle, please send it to me and let me inspect it - and if it does do this, I will be the first one to say so and to applaud their engineering prowess.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='gunmetal' timestamp='1359086357' post='6293731']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1359078436' post='6292921']
[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1359078297' post='6292905']
That is the dumbest thing I have ever heard!
[/quote]

If you want to play tour equipment you are going to have to buck up!!!
[/quote]

If you want to play tour equipment [b]from Taylormade[/b] you are going to have to buck up!!!

I can't wait to hear what the difference in the heads are. The V2 probably has less CC's, maybe a different horizontal and vertical CG. Wow. As long as it's stamped with something like "Tour Preffered" or "Tour Only" guess some people will have to have it.
[/quote]

its 420cc, since thats already public knowledge thats all i can say for now

[Redskinsfan]

Is Paula "freakin" Creamer not there? Or are you holding out on us?

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='Redskinsfan' timestamp='1359087176' post='6293811']
Is Paula "freakin" Creamer not there? Or are you holding out on us?
[/quote]

Natalie Gulbis hung out with us for awhile this morning

[BC33]

No offense, but this reporting is more fluff than substance. You're acting more as an employee or mouthpiece for TaylorMade than this GolfWRX insider at the PGA show.

You've not provided answers to the majority of the questions that were posed in this thread but have stated that the folks at TMAG have told you. Don't big time the membership here, you stated you were gonna ask the questions and are being less than forthcoming.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='BC33' timestamp='1359087528' post='6293841']
No offense, but this reporting is more fluff than substance. You're acting more as an employee or mouthpiece for TaylorMade than this GolfWRX insider at the PGA show.

You've not provided answers to the majority of the questions that were posed in this thread but have stated that the folks at TMAG have told you. Don't big time the membership here, you stated you were gonna ask the questions and are being less than forthcoming.
[/quote]

Glad you started that with no offense cause I would have taken offense! (read that with a grain a salt, I'm making a joke) I understand I can't please everyone and thats ok, I'll still do my best for you guys.

Well as I've already apologized 3 times do I need to do it again? I've said sorry guys but I need to leave the V2 answer to Zak.

As for the answers on the rest of the questions....well I count more then a dozen questions I answered just on page 4-5. Sorry I couldn't get to them all but as I said we have a lot more info coming, and I was running around non stop getting pictures and info to put up here, I didn't have an internet connection, and I was doing everything through my phone so I wasn't going to type up anything long on my iphone, it would take hours. Theres certain things I can't speak on, like what they have planned next year, or the cor of the metal woods, its not my place to state something now when they want to talk about it later during the Stage 2 launch. Not trying to sound like a big shot, but when you spend time with the big wigs from OEMs they tell you a lot, but they also let you know things that aren't allowed to be spoken about yet.

And yes I guess you could say I am a bit of a mouthpiece from Taylormade, essentially thats what I said I would do, answer some questions with my mouth...and show you all the stuff Taylormade is doing. I mean how else could I be a GolfWRX insider? I'm not being rude by saying that I'm literally asking you what can I do for you? Thats what I'm here for, you guys. I took pictures galore, posted updates when I could, answered questions that I could...I'm sorry if I'm missing something but I'm doing my best for you guys. Better then nothing right? Like I said, honestly tell me what you want a GolfWRX insider to do? I wasn't supposed to be an insider at the PGA Show, I was supposed to follow Dave Cordero around all day updating Taylormade, I thought I made that clear in the beginning? I didn't want to confuse anyone as to what I was doing.

Hope that helps you guys! I've said it myself, I feel bad I can't give you the V2 answer...but it's coming. And I'm sorry if this wasn't enough for you. Guess I let every down.

[chipper10102003]

You haven't let anyone down CP. You have done a fantastic job getting info we all wish we could get ourselves. The access these companies give GolfWRX is incredible. Can't wait to hear what else is in store.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='ryldawg' timestamp='1358992739' post='6286027']
Ok I'm new to taylormade equipment. I have been a tech rep for another company for several years and was asked to make the switch. I'm pretty excited. My biggest fear is the wedges. Atv is very different. Is there any plan for a more traditional wedge? Also I'm coming from lighter weight shafts in the driver any chance they can say what weight they think is best. Also when will the web page be fully updated with the new bags. Also fully updated with all custom shafts that are available this year.
[/quote]

More traditional? I doubt it, this is Taylormade! haha anyway...ATV is the way to go unless you can get your hands on the previous model XFT wedges, I still play those and I love them. A traditional wedge with the some Taylormade innovation. New wedges coming soon though!

I posted pictures of a crazy amount of bags. Not sure the website will have all the bags or not but get your self a catalog and it will have them all

[preshotroutine]

CP! Would it be safe to say that TM has the 2014 offerings already designed?

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='scratchswinger' timestamp='1358995016' post='6286237']
Please ask why the tour pro's are not using the R1 with the same one loft technology that is sold for retail.
[/quote]

scratch just checking in to see if you saw my disappointing post on the V2 info? I cant give you the info, I'm leaving that for Zak since he's the man when it comes to write ups, not my place to say as I don't want anything to be inaccurate.

sorry bud, really wanted to be the guy to give you the answer. i can however tell you, you will actually like the answer.

[cal842]

[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1359079222' post='6293007']
CP, why don't they sell weight kits like they did back in the day for the MWT drivers?
[/quote]

You can still get the weights individually from 1g to 18 g. Just go to your closest Taylormade dealer

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1359089100' post='6293987']
CP! Would it be safe to say that TM has the 2014 offerings already designed?
[/quote]

i wouldnt have the answer, and they wouldnt give me that answer. i learned my lesson in Naples when I asked a questions similar to that and what names there would be and Sean started cracking up laughing "Caesar, I love ya, but come on really? I can't tell you that."

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='cal842' timestamp='1359089321' post='6294011']
[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1359079222' post='6293007']
CP, why don't they sell weight kits like they did back in the day for the MWT drivers?
[/quote]

You can still get the weights individually from 1g to 18 g. Just go to your closest Taylormade dealer
[/quote]

thanks cal! yeah i can order them through my TMAG account at the country club. we did this past summer for someones spider putter

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='rharvey3' timestamp='1359006928' post='6287313']
[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1358993863' post='6286141']
[quote name='rharvey3' timestamp='1358993253' post='6286083']
Ask them if the DLL is adjustable in length. Ask about a milled putter and why the continue to add shaft graphics.
[/quote]

I asked about milled putters in Naples. They just don't believe there is a market for it. If someone wants a milled putter they most likely want a Scotty. They just don't think enough of a market could be made with milled TM putters. They can make any putter someone could want, they just want to stick to the insert to have the market for the smooth rolling and high MOI putters.

I believe that's essentially how it went
[/quote]

Thanks for the update - thats what I assumed.
[/quote]

im with you though, i want a milled Spider S sooooo bad

[SwooshLT]

CP, what's your feeling on the TP shaft? Specs seem to fit me but didn't get a chance to swing it today....

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='TheMoneyShot' timestamp='1359038607' post='6288473']
[quote name='Caesar Palache' timestamp='1359038449' post='6288453']
Waiting for Natalie to get done with her interview then Sean and I are taking about V2 and such. Ill get to the super tp!
[/quote]

You are the freakin man CP! You have clout with TM. Tell them that we want the TP logos back and not just on their umbrellas....
[/quote]

As soon as I brought this up with Sean he said "yeah yeah I know money shot wants it back"

i'll tell him your thank you for the R1 when I see him next time

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='TMAG FIREMEDIC' timestamp='1359089617' post='6294051']
CP, what's your feeling on the TP shaft? Specs seem to fit me but didn't get a chance to swing it today....
[/quote]

which tp shaft are we talking about? Super TP? thats the only TP shaft I hit, I hit the TOUR shaft (Matrix 6Q3) in the Stage 2 and loved it. its the real deal shaft and had a nice smooth feel to it, for a lighter shaft it didnt feel whippy one bit, 60grams is light to me.

[deck]

I'm going to start calling u lil ceas. U did fantastic work and some of the questions u were asked we already asked in Naples and could not speak of again. I know you and I know you took verbatim the questions we asked on here and brought them to Sean and TMAG. I know Sean prob was very forthcoming and we have to remember that they are a company (the number 1 company right now) and people are gunning for them and looking to take or "borrow" some things from them. So to sum it up you cannot tell everything as that would inhibit them. I understand that and respect that.

For what's my opinion is worth and its not much. You did a heck of a job with this and posted everything you could. Great lil cease special bro. Another fantastic job. Tell all the guys there deck says hey. Me and kadin are way jealous of u getting all the details and time with them.

[deck]

Oh and I could use a little caesar pizza right about now!

[SwooshLT]

I was speaking of the 499 out the door Phenom TP ....

[ProBowler]

[quote name='BC33' timestamp='1359087528' post='6293841']
No offense, but this reporting is more fluff than substance. You're acting more as an employee or mouthpiece for TaylorMade than this GolfWRX insider at the PGA show.

You've not provided answers to the majority of the questions that were posed in this thread but have stated that the folks at TMAG have told you. Don't big time the membership here, you stated you were gonna ask the questions and are being less than forthcoming.
[/quote]

Listen I was with CP most of the day yesterday and he was being pulled in 6 different ways at all times by everyone.
He will answer most ( and I say most because there are some questions that can not be answered ) questions with honesty !!!!
CP does not work for TMag and will be truthful to point that he can. He represents GolfWRX not TMag and as you know GolfWRX is ALWAYS looking for the truth not the fluff !!!
As for the V2 questions ..... The was a lot of info that was given during the pow wow with Sean and Tom from TMag and CP is not a reporter but Big Zak is ...... So we will let him write up a report on this !!

[geauxWRX]

When can we expect this much anticipated V2 answer?

[HammerTM24]

Thank you CP, you are doing a great job. It's obvious that not every question will be able to be answered and I think everyone needs to respect that. As a serious TM ho, I appreciate all you are doing and also want to thank Wrx and TM for sharing info with us as well as continuing to giveaway awesome prizes! Now see about getting TM to ship me me a R1 Super TP....

[WVP]

[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1359062121' post='6291219']
What the heck is V1 and V2?
[/quote]

Can you stop your passive aggressive troll act in each thread? I am not a big fan Taylormade either but the shtick gets old.

[Imp]

[quote name='preshotroutine' timestamp='1359089100' post='6293987']
CP! Would it be safe to say that TM has the 2014 offerings already designed?
[/quote]My question to you is this... designed as in 'what it looks like/graphics' or designed as in 'going through the development process'. If it's the latter, read on.

I work in life-cycle planning (cradle to grave). Deliver training on it and logisitics.

Ask yourself this... do you think ANY company (not just TM) would start developing a new product only after the most recent release was finished? No. That's not how manufacturing works.

I'll go out on a limb and say that I would think that ALL manufacturers have [B]at least[/B] a 5 year road-map (and bigger ones even more, but some could be less, depending on the market they're in) on product development. This roadmap lays out the timeframe for planning, prototyping, manufacturing, testing, approvals, distribution, etc... Some items can borrow what had already been developed (using existing processes and tools) and it shortens the development timeframe to delivery (especially when you don't have to do an extensive re-tool).

The only thing a company may NOT know is the name or marketing direction until relatively late in the cycle. But all those other things like how it's made, its function and how its better than the last one? They know that already... and have for years.

It's not that any company doesn't know what's coming next, they know what's coming usually 2-5 years ahead of time. So in that regard, yes, they more than likely already have 2014 products already "designed". Heck, they probably already have 2015 and part of 2016 also.

--kC

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='ProBowler' timestamp='1359116468' post='6294815']
[quote name='BC33' timestamp='1359087528' post='6293841']
No offense, but this reporting is more fluff than substance. You're acting more as an employee or mouthpiece for TaylorMade than this GolfWRX insider at the PGA show.

You've not provided answers to the majority of the questions that were posed in this thread but have stated that the folks at TMAG have told you. Don't big time the membership here, you stated you were gonna ask the questions and are being less than forthcoming.
[/quote]

Listen I was with CP most of the day yesterday and he was being pulled in 6 different ways at all times by everyone.
He will answer most ( and I say most because there are some questions that can not be answered ) questions with honesty !!!!
CP does not work for TMag and will be truthful to point that he can. He represents GolfWRX not TMag and as you know GolfWRX is ALWAYS looking for the truth not the fluff !!!
As for the V2 questions ..... The was a lot of info that was given during the pow wow with Sean and Tom from TMag and CP is not a reporter but Big Zak is ...... So we will let him write up a report on this !!
[/quote]

Thanks pro! I hope you guys had a good time last night, sorry I couldn't make it.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='dplambert1' timestamp='1359117108' post='6294825']
When can we expect this much anticipated V2 answer?
[/quote]

Gotta leave it to Zak, as pro bowler said Zaknis the reporter.

I liked the answer much better then I thought I would.

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='TMAG FIREMEDIC' timestamp='1359114073' post='6294751']
I was speaking of the 499 out the door Phenom TP ....
[/quote]

Didn't get to hit that, I'll have to try it tonight or tomorrow. I was focused in getting dialed in on the Super TP...yes I brag

[Caesar Palache]

[quote name='deck' timestamp='1359091484' post='6294205']
Oh and I could use a little caesar pizza right about now!
[/quote]

Look out decks been drinking