The Truth About TSG

[Just The Facts Max]

Hello Men:

 

For reasons that may not make sense to some of you, I have decided it is my duty to inform you of some of the real business practices that TSG employs that don't get posted on the forum. Some of Chris' fanboys will remain fanboys and rally behind him so he can go buy more Maseratis and yachts on your dime, and that's fine. He will be happy to keep feeding you BS and letting you lap it up.

 

For those of you that smelled this BS with Epon from the get-go, some of this may or may not be old news to you but here goes:

 

Going back nearly to it's inception, TSG has milked suppliers and promoted their brand heavily. If something ever went wrong, they would dump the product and do everything in their power to discredit it.

 

Go ahead, do some searches.

 

--Chris got into public pissing matches with Mr. Whitlam and tried to discredit him and take him down. Sadly for him, he didn't have the resources or manpower to protect himself from these attacks.

 

--Chris did the exact same thing to Scracth and went so far as to post testing results of another company's products in a misguided attempt to bring Scratch down. Watching the Scratch debacle and how Chris handled it is what really started to make me turn against him.

 

--Chris used to badmouth Romaro products a few years ago but now that they've turned the corner and there's money to be made, he has deleted the old posts and started pimping them.

 

--Chris got into it with Carl of Chikara Designs, similar to the above situations, and went so far as to ban the whole state of Hawaii IP addresses at one point.

 

--Chris is into it with Epon now, and it is all shades of the same thing. Chris playing the victim just trying to save his poor followers from poor products and shady business practices.

 

 

Ready for the real reason Epon cut TSG? As Chris mentioned, there is a distributor for Epon named Sosan, and ran by Niimi. Niimi is a very nice man, and he and Kenji Kobayashi are friends until death. A good distributor is in place, with personal ties and management, and what does TSG do? Goes straight to Epon to try and undercut Sosan to gain full control of the product profit going through TSG hands.

 

This is now the SECOND time this has happened, so they are not excusing TSG this time. Sosan pulled the plug with the full blessing of the brass at Epon. TSG has done much to grow this brand but regardless of sales figures they will not stand for shady business practices. Unfortunately that seems to be a common theme with TSG. I have seen direct comments from people on other side of story. Sosan and Epon made no move to limit talk of Epon on the board or on BST, that is solely a reactionary measure by Chris who is pouting like a baby who got his a** spanked for being naughty again.

 

Epon has been in a state of transition and Chris thought he had leverage to power grab. He didn't and it was tasteless and low class to pull a coup while they are at this crossroads. It backfired mightily and cost TSG their distributorship. Dumping all his Epon gear on the BST the day before this mess started was one of the most classless things I have ever seen by a proprietor, followed by the lying through the teeth to his clients.

 

Another fact you may not know about TSG is that they strangle their resellers by taking such a large portion of the middleman cut that there's very little money to be made on the reseller's end. Sound familiar? Didn't Chris just give us a "woe is me" tale of a greedy international distributor making prices too high and margins too thin? The only reason Chris is griping about it now is because TSG doesn't occupy that position in regards to Epon. How ironic that TSG operates indentically to the company they say unfairly cut their Epon line!

 

The ridiculous "pump and dump" nonsense that goes on around here is another thing. It is disingenuous at best and criminal at worst. Promote a product and tell everyone how great it is then once everyone has bought it, start promoting something else to generate buzz to keep everyone shifting one way or another. Once a brand runs out of steam or has a small problem, drop them like a hot potato and tell everyone how bad they were.

 

Chris' arrogant and condescending remarks towards many on the board are indicative of his overall demeanor and business practices. He not only thinks he's smarter than you, he wants you to KNOW it.

 

TSG is nothing but a fulfillment house for JDM gear. You give them your order and your money, they turn around and tell the company, and then the company sends it to you. Sure you can talk about fitting and customer service. It is about as helpful as just reading the product descriptions and figuring it out yourself. Some people have great results and others terrible. Everything I have ever ordered from TSG took way longer than expected to arrive. If I had a dime for everyone I knew that said people at TSG just stopped responding to their emails during the ordering process I'd be a wealthy man.

 

They have become a distributor for brands that had no plans on growth outside of Japan but now are stuck in an archaic way of doing business through TSG. Many retailers in other countries want to carry these brands but can't afford to work under TSG's ridiculous reseller program. I personally know one fellow that wants to sell JDM but the profits are so razor thin it is pointless.

 

Don't listen to what Chris the shepherd wants you to believe. He is in this for himself first and foremost so he can drive exotic cars and travel while working Tario to death in his absence. I have seen enough shadiness from this man to last me a lifetime. If you want to continue doing business with someone who stabs suppliers in the back then lies through his teeth to you about it, be my guest. But for those of you who didn't realize this, maybe I saved you some future hassle.

 

Epon did the right thing in protecting their brand by taking it out of TSG's hands. If you don't believe that then run and go get the Sheep irons he wants to sell you instead of Epon.

 

Baaaaaa baaaaaaaa

[vanla01]

Definitely interesting. ..

[tembolo1284]

Wow! Them's fighting words. Would love to hear some responses on both sides of the argument.

[Arafel]

Wow! This is the exact same business model as Bomb Squad Golf. It appears we have bigger DB than Thrun on our hands. I remember the attack on Scratch Golf and thought something seemed weird about it.

[MizzyMan]

My popcorn's popping, just sat down in my fave chair. This gonna be good. Where there's smoke,.......

[morebeerbettergolf]

Just saw this was over here too. Like most pissing matches the truth lies somewhere in the middle I suppose.

[Llortamaisey]

I feel like this same story happened years ago to a high ranking employee at GolfSmith. He tried to cut out a middle man in order to get GolfSmith's house brands manufactured at a better price and it back fired.

My pappy always said you should always know who you are f'ing with before you f them.

[KILLEDBYASHANKEDWEDGE]

You lose all credibility using Carl of Chikara Designs as a good guy in this mess.

[cardia10]

Everyone should have known all along TSG is nothing more than a middle man. It is no different than walking in Golf Galaxy, except more like Dicks because they pimp their own trash. Essentially TSG is the Dicks of cool stuff that the Asian Market gets first.

[OrangeCrush]

While the thread is well written and has a probability of being true. When it's a posters FIRST post on the message board. It makes it smell of TROLL in a HUGE way!

I am reading the Swap Shop on TSG now, not a gleaming amount of Epon outside of the normal amount.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Mitchell]

Seems like a bit of personal agenda here as in free market economy shady business practices are eventually found out and tend to backfire on those lacking in integrity. The fact that this is a first post leads me to have a healthy bit of skepticism about motivation of OP, if proven to be true, my apologies for doubting integrity.

[w6racing]

I have bought some clubs from TSG and everything went smoothly and I was very happy.

[cardia10]

Anyone can buy clubs from TSG, until the OEM calls TSG out for their practices. Then, TSG bashes the manufacturer, claims their forging house doesn't exist (despite pictures and written proof), and basically tries to ruin the reputation of the OEM. TSG can only cry wolf so many times until they are caught up with. They will gladly take your money as the middle man. I suggest before doing business with them, look at cutting their middle man operation out and saving yourself some cash.

[morebeerbettergolf]

Maybe the OP is an industry professional and has reasons to stay anonymous. Maybe he fabricated this to get revenge for something. Who knows.

As far as the Epon on the BST it was in Tourspecgolfer's big thread from a couple days ago, he liquidated his personal Epon stuff which I believe was what the OP referred to.

[Arafel]

[quote name='cardia10' timestamp='1362777346' post='6573167']
Anyone can buy clubs from TSG, until the OEM calls TSG out for their practices. Then, TSG bashes the manufacturer, claims their forging house doesn't exist (despite pictures and written proof), and basically tries to ruin the reputation of the OEM. TSG can only cry wolf so many times until they are caught up with. They will gladly take your money as the middle man. I suggest before doing business with them, look at cutting their middle man operation out and saving yourself some cash.
[/quote]

I forgot about when TSG accused Miura of not forging their own irons. I'm beginning to think that whoever runs TSG is a bit of a scumbag. There have been at least three instances that I know of, of TSG running a smear campaign against someone who stopped doing business with them.

So much like BSG.

[xxio]

Being an anonymous first post would have had me wary but too many controversies always going back to TSG. This sounds like a post by someone who knows what happens in the golf distribution industry in Japan/Asia.

I have always done my own checking, I didn't know there were that many instances of controversy with TSG.

[Swisstrader98]

Mmm

[guisician]

We've always been at war with Eastasia though, right?

[chocolatte]

Can't say that I will never buy from TSG again, but the way they handled this has definitely changed my view on them.

Not much honesty on their part IMO.

[TexMex36]

Well, your username is Just the Facts Max so everything you are saying must be true.

[LionGolfer]

To the thread starter, I dont doubt there is a POSSIBILITY what you say is true. What's your vested interest in starting something like this though? Not purely out of the goodness of your heart to protect us I am sure. Did you get shafted by TSG in some way?

[stage1350]

Don't really care which side is right or wrong in this. What becomes very obvious from all the sites that cause this crap is that "the money" has gotten out of hand in golf and douchebags like this are proof of it. It's like reading about Thrun, but the mandals are a slightly different size.

And people wonder why I hate the flippers and profiteers in golf...

[idrive]

I have a lot of feelings on this one.

But first, the OP is nothing but a coward and needs to look in the mirror.

His duty?? Really??

Last time I checked no one was forced to buy from TSG. MOST of us are grown ups
and can make our own decisions when it comes to buying clubs. I guess I should do
a background check on every store I want to purchase something from to make sure
they are going to go to heaven when they die..... kinda like checking out the kitchen
of your favorite restaurant. If you did you probably wouldn't eat there anymore.

If TSG has something you want to buy, you buy it. Otherwise you don't.

Seems pretty simple to me.

[conkara]

[quote name='idrive' timestamp='1362824774' post='6576281']
I have a lot of feelings on this one.

But first, the OP is nothing but a coward and needs to look in the mirror.

His duty?? Really??

Last time I checked no one was forced to buy from TSG. MOST of us are grown ups
and can make our own decisions when it comes to buying clubs. I guess I should do
a background check on every store I want to purchase something from to make sure
they are going to go to heaven when they die..... kinda like checking out the kitchen
of your favorite restaurant. If you did you probably wouldn't eat there anymore.

If TSG has something you want to buy, you buy it. Otherwise you don't.

Seems pretty simple to me.
[/quote]Agree !!

[TheDarkOne]

I've never really checked out the TSG website that much, looking at their BST right now. Man there's a lot of cool stuff over there!

[Mob]

Interesting. I really don't know what to make of this. I have bought several items from TSG and felt that the customer service was excellent. Tario was incredibly helpful. When I thought he fit me with the wrong flex shaft, he had me send the club back and reshafted it with no charge. On another note, I did wonder why they didn't carry some left handed clubs that I could find on the companies websites. Navigating a Japanese companies website is incredibly difficult. I would have thought they would carry every left handed club in Japan, given that there are so few. I am fully aware that TSG is a middleman taking a cut in the middle. If these companies want to sell direct via their websites, for a better price, I will certainly buy straight from them. But they will need to improve their websites significantly for this to happen.

[onwrd2vctry]

Wholesale-Retail relationships change everyday. Sounds like TSG wanted a bigger piece of the pie. I imagine the wholesaler did not want to give it. There are always personalities involved, I don't see how this is anyone's business but the parties involved?

[Scratch2Plus]

[quote name='CelticFan3' timestamp='1362808803' post='6575949']
Well, your username is Just the Facts Max so everything you are saying must be true.
[/quote]

Its all True! Its on the Internet and you cant put anything on the internet that isnt true!

[MizzyMan]

What a Bonanza for TSG is my opinion. For every person that may be soured from their actions and believe the OP, I bet there's 2 or 3 or a dozen that will be wondering what the heck is this all about and go over there and be floored at the cool stuff they have. Then turn into a total JDM ho like a bunch of us. Any publicity is good publicity. The OP may be doing more harm than good for his cause, especially given he came with no evidence whatsoever. Just some innu"endo". haha

[Llortamaisey]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1362807139' post='6575863']
We've always been at war with Eastasia though, right?
[/quote]

You might be thinking of North Korea. When the Korean War ended in 1953 both sides agreed to an armistice, like a more permanent truce or ceasefire. Because no peace treaty was signed, the armistice did not end the war and technically the US is still at war with North Korea.

Sorry to thread jack. Back on topic!