Kenneth Smith---Kansas City---Handmade Clubs

[jtbrown248]

I just returned from Goodwill where they had everything in the store at 50% off their already low prices and I have come home with 3 persimmon drivers in absolute pristine condition that appear to be hand made by Kenneth Smith of Kansas City. My cammera is on the blink right now but here is what I see.

 

On the top the clubs' persimmon head is the name John McLain in gold leaf cursive. On the the sole plate is the following:

 

Kenneth Smith

Handmade ToFitYou

Kansas City

>>>----->

 

Then below that and at an angle from left bottom towards top right is the name:

 

Harry D Force

 

Any clues???

 

PS: I will post pics when camera is working

[guisician]

Kenneth Smith = the height of custom-order clubs, back in the day.

<<The Kenneth Smith Golf Company

Few in the area recognize the importance of a small local company in Shawnee, Kansas that gained world wide recognition: The Kenneth Smith Golf Company. This legendary company was started by an ambitious and talented local man named Kenneth Smith.

Kenneth Smith started in the world of golf in 1916, quitting his job delivering newspapers to become a caddy at Mission Hills Country Club. While still in high school, he apprenticed to the club maker at the County Club pro shop. Smith received a degree in Business Administration in 1924 from the University of Michigan. In 1928, he started his business making custom golf clubs in Kansas City. In June that year, a pro by the name of Horton Smith stopped in to the shop for a custom-fitted set of clubs. Horton Smith soon became the leading money winner on the tour and from that point on, the demand for Kenneth Smith golf clubs flourished.

In 1935, the company moved to Shawnee with seven employees. It became known for quality craftsmanship and innovative design. Kenneth Smith, with over 25 patents and innovations to his name, is credited with successfully integrating science into the art of making golf clubs. Many of his innovations, including the perforated non-slip grip, are still widely used today. Smith also developed a personalized fitting chart that stream- lined the ordering process, allowing him to conduct 85 percent of his business by mail.

Over the years Smith’s clientele included not only golf pros but also celebrities, presidents and royalty from around the world. Bob Hope, Errol Flynn, Billy Graham, Dwight Eisenhower, Richard Nixon, King Leopold of Belgium and King Hassan of Morocco all used clubs from this Shawnee-based company. Despite his world-wide reputation, Smith remained a modest man, committed to quality workmanship until his death in 1977. The Kenneth Smith Golf Company continued until early 2004, when it officially closed.

Today the legacy of the Kenneth Smith Company lives on in the Smith house and factory building located on 71st Street between Quivira and Pflumm. Nestled amongst picturesque green hills, the facility looks more like a club-house than a manufacturing building. Smith dreamed that the property around his business would become a golf course. The land however, was recently sold to a developer. Although the Kenneth Smith home and factory have been identified as potential state and national register properties, they are scheduled for demolition at this time.>>

[jtbrown248]

Thanks and good info but;:::

Who is John McLain
And who is Harry D Force???

[guisician]

[quote name='jtbrown248' timestamp='1363056589' post='6594127']
Thanks and good info but;:::

Who is John McLain
And who is Harry D Force???
[/quote]

Just a guess -- John McLain gets the nice cursive since he's the customer and Harry G Force made (or supervised the making of) Mr. McLain's clubs. Or the club is a John McLain model customized for the client, Harry G Force. OK, 2 guesses...

[teevons]

Typically with Smith Woods the customers name is always stamped on the soleplate, to have a different name in a decal on the crown is not common, ?? Pictures will help

[guisician]

jtbrown,

Until you can post some pics, maybe these will help in the meantime by comparison:

[attachment=1580693:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580689:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580691:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580701:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580703:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580685:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580687:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580695:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580697:image.jpg]

[attachment=1580699:image.jpg]

Just a few iPad pics of another lovely blonde!

[Ripvanwinkle]

G...just to bring it full circle for all us "Hogan-nauts" or whatever we are...Ben's right hand man in club design, Gene Sheely worked at Kenneth Smith before he went to work for Mr. Hogan.

[guisician]

What a great life experience, working for those two men at their iconic companies.

Thanks rip!

[jtbrown248]

Ok, here are couple of picts taken with my cell phone. Not the best shots in the world but will show what I am talking about

[oldschoolrocker]

Nice finds around Cola there JB. Looks like I will have to up my browsing in the lowcountry. Heading out for a month can't wait to see what you have found when I get back in CONUS.

[jtbrown248]

Well I really made a killing this last trip. Not only got the Kenneth Smith 2,3 4 woods, I also got a nice Ping bag attached to a Diplomat folding big wheel pull cart.

Now for the kicker..In the bag was a pair of nice size 11 footjoy shoes (my size exactly) and to top that off, there was 3 dozen Titlest balls and 5 of them were the old DT90 Wound balls.

Now for the really good part.....total price for all of the above $6.50 and no tax.....lol, the balls alone were worth that.

[guisician]

[quote name='jtbrown248' timestamp='1363093174' post='6596057']
...
Now for the really good part.....total price for all of the above $6.50 and no tax.....lol, the balls alone were worth that.
[/quote]

Careful; folks may begin rubbing up against you for good luck!

[mocokid]

Saw many of the KS models at the NJ golf club I caddied at from 73-80. Those names stamped in sole are very likely the customers. Always found the KS clubs is bit clunky looking, not as artistic as say MacGregor or Hogan. Now they're heirlooms or junk depending on point of view. Sad to think of some family member whose dad, grandad passed away, dropping these clubs off at Good will.

[guisician]

[quote name='mocokid' timestamp='1363096972' post='6596407']
...
Now they're heirlooms or junk depending on point of view.
...
[/quote]

I like mine for sure; in great shape, solidly balanced & sweet grain, whippy shaft but so what? A piece of someone's history, still alive.

A small thing, but I love the font they used [especially the cross-stroke of the 't' that rises into the 'h'] for the "Kenneth Smith" stamping on the sole plate.

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1363112235' post='6598129']
[quote name='mocokid' timestamp='1363096972' post='6596407']
...
Now they're heirlooms or junk depending on point of view.
...
[/quote]

I like mine for sure; in great shape, solidly balanced & sweet grain, whippy shaft but so what? A piece of someone's history, still alive.

A small thing, but I love the font they used [especially the cross-stroke of the 't' that rises into the 'h'] for the "Kenneth Smith" stamping on the sole plate.
[/quote]

Another thing that is interesting is that the woods are, in fact, persimmon. Of the Kenneth Smith woods I have seen, yours are only the 2nd or 3rd set that is not laminated. They had a unique and nifty way of doing their lamination so that the woods looked like perfect wide horseshoe-grained tiger striped persimmon. don't know if persimmon was a special order. But I think they are scarce.

[guisician]

[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1363113248' post='6598277']
---
Another thing that is interesting is that the woods are, in fact, persimmon. Of the Kenneth Smith woods I have seen, yours are only the 2nd or 3rd set that is not laminated. They had a unique and nifty way of doing their lamination so that the woods looked like perfect wide horseshoe-grained tiger striped persimmon. don't know if persimmon was a special order. But I think they are scarce.
[/quote]

IO,

Thanks for looking at the not-sharp pics and providing the info above; I was blissfully ignorant of this prior to, of course.

[jtbrown248]

[quote name='guisician' timestamp='1363134031' post='6600529']
[quote name='Ironmaster Oddities' timestamp='1363113248' post='6598277']
---
Another thing that is interesting is that the woods are, in fact, persimmon. Of the Kenneth Smith woods I have seen, yours are only the 2nd or 3rd set that is not laminated. They had a unique and nifty way of doing their lamination so that the woods looked like perfect wide horseshoe-grained tiger striped persimmon. don't know if persimmon was a special order. But I think they are scarce.
[/quote]

IO,

Thanks for looking at the not-sharp pics and providing the info above; I was blissfully ignorant of this prior to, of course.
[/quote]

I tell you when I saw them, I knew they were special. Looks like they have never been played or at least very little. And yes I have seen very few KS Persimmons and I cant find a thing on Harry D Forse although there is a good deal of info on one Harry Force. He owned a bar in Teluride Colarado. He was murdered and they wrote a book about him called "Exodus of Angels"

As to to John McLain, there is one John Mclain who was Lt Commander in the Navy at Iwo Jima who went on to become a cinematogropher in Hollywood. Also there is another who was a Senator from Illinois and was born in the 1890's. Both of which could be the John McLain on the club head.

Rare indeed I would say, because that is about all I can find about these names

[teevons]

here are some pretty Kenneth Smith

[russad]

pretty and different, especially the ferrules

[Shambles]

Never liked them. I always thought they were behind the times and rather crude.


Shambles

[Scully13]

Nice find there.

Kenneth Smith were some of the finest handmade clubs produced period. next to of course the great handmade clubs made overseas (at the home of golf).

For $6.50 you are guilty of a crime sir. LOL

[jtbrown248]

Thank you sir and but I must plead innocent of any crime.

I questioned the GoodWill clerk several times on the price and she had no interest in changing price as they were very busy (%50 off everything in the store) and I even gave away a putter and other irons in the bag to a mother and son behind me in the line....

Karma,,,pay it forward or whateve,,,,I am just glad to have them

[guisician]

It was a high temp of about 34*F in the NYC today; luckily the Harbor Links outdoor range stays open pretty much throughout the winter though the courses won't open until he 31st. I hit the Kenneth Smith persimmon pictured upthread about 15 times, just 3/4 swings. Man, this club even hits cold, dead range balls beautifully. Thanks to the OP for the inspiration!

[jay_dwight]

I'm 26, and have never owned a wooden club.


Yet those are absolutely gorgeous.

[guisician]

[quote name='jay_dwight' timestamp='1363319222' post='6615123']
I'm 26, and have never owned a wooden club.


Yet those are absolutely gorgeous.
[/quote]

I'm twice your age and realize this can be a bit of a generational divide as mine grew up with persimmon woods, but if you have $20 burning a hole in your pocket, how about something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cleveland-Classic-Ben-Crenshaw-Persimmon-Driver-1-Wood-Original-R300-Shaft-Grip-/171006898950?pt=Golf_Clubs&hash=item27d0ce3306

Or more like it:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Clubs-/115280/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Persimmon&_sop=15

Or check your local Goodwill or the like; some very inexpensive golf fun to be had with these old sticks. And as far as your game, if / when you can hit these, a current driver becomes way easier by comparison.

[chasnsx]

Just one little thing left out -- if memory serves, Horton Smith, the golf pro (and he was a pro, both a club pro and a tour pro) who put Kenneth Smith on the map, was the very first winner of the Masters.

[jtbrown248]

Well I got my camera replaced so I was able to take some good pictures of these and I will post them below.

So from what I gather from the graciouis input of you guys is that Kenneth Smith Woods were a special deal and highly regarded by the rich and famous of the day. What I still dont know is who is John McLain and who is Harvey Force. Also, as someone noted, K Smith Persimmons were not the norm as he mainly workded in laminated wood blocks turned on their sides for a unique look, so that wouild seem to indicate these are probably quite rare.

So rather than hit them or horde them in my little space here is South Carolina, I am going to place them on the market. For how much,,,I have no clue, but if anyone is interested, contack me via my profile and I hope I am not breatching ediquite or forum rules in the matter.

Here are the Picts"

[teevons]

These have been refinished, you can tell by the finish and the face screws are cut through. The Mclain is a decal so these were probably not custom from from Smith for Mclain , they were probably refinished with the Mclain decal put on after as a gift etc.by the club refinisher

[jtbrown248]

Good observation,,,,thanks.

Which now makes me think about keeping them as my Vintage Woods anc combine them with my MacGregor DX2's, which is what I really wanted to do anyway..lol

[B Hales]

Hi! Gentlemen
I just found this site really nice . I recently came across some of the Kenneth Smith clubs . Is there a way you can find out how old they are?
The set i have consist of 3 4 5 woods 1 2 4 6 7 8 9 and a 19 in the iorns and also a putter.also have original covers for the 3 5 and putter
They came in an old leather bag with a Kenneth Smith tag on it . the no. all the clubs is 135537 the owners name on them is Jack Buse
Any info will be greatly appreciated !!