G25 Iron Review (Low Handicapper)

[Ripken08]

[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.

[Donno]

[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.
[/quote]

Well if hitting the center vs. off-center results in wildly different distances then the clubs are only good for good ball-strikers. I found the same thing with TM CGB Max's that I got as a gift years ago. The PW could go 135, or 155...no joke. A 150 shot was a nightmare...do I hit a PW "harder", "softer" 9, etc. With my blades or MP-57's, 150 is an 8 iron every time...no thinking. I hit the AP2's on grass range. Nice clubs, but I gotta say they really shine only with compressive shots...otherwise I think they would feel [i]heavy [/i]for the average golfer. They weren't really any easier to hit than my older blades, or not by much. But the distance control was superb.

As for the G25, it would be a stretch to blame the stock shaft imo.

[Konkonash]

[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.
[/quote]

Well, out of all my clubs I hit my G25 G & P the most consistently which made it very frustrating when the ball would sail +10,15, or even 20 yards too far. I don't have that issue with the AP2's.

[PhilMickFan]

I also experienced instances of oddly different distances with the same club when I gamed the G25's. Sometimes 15-20 yards longer than it typically goes. Switched to a forged iron and have not had the random 15 yard longer iron shot since. No clue why and am making no comment other than it happened with the G25's and not with current set.

[Donno]

See snippet of write up from a Mizuno site (link below). The statement is true regarding forged vs. cast clubs.....or forgings vs. castings in general....castings result in more variability...anyone out there ever upgrade to forged pistons for the Chevy big block rebuild?

China casts most of the irons on the market. Mizuno (last I checked) also outsources castings to China...but, the MP-series forgings are made in Japan. As far as I know most all "higher end" clubs are assembled in the USA, probably to remain a USA-based product offering.

Not RahRah'g Mizuno here, but forgings are always more stable than castings, simply because of minimal process variability. I don't think the G25's, or other cast clubs, should get a "black mark" for being castings whatsoever, but it wouldn't be crazy to see more variability with them, or any cast iron. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs intentionally "mis-cast" to create ridiculous...periodic shot distances, intended for those who are looking for that one "160 yard" 9 iron. Probably not, but it's pretty competitive out there!

[b] Why does Mizuno choose to forge its MP irons?[/b]

The forging process produces greater consistency and quality in the metal. Casting may be a more economical way to produce clubs - a cast head costs about half as much to produce as a forged head. But the downside of casting is that when the metal is poured into the mould, it always traps tiny bubbles inside the metal structure. We can go back to the freezer; no matter how carefully you pour the water, there are always bubbles in the ice. These bubbles make the face inconsistent; two shots from almost the same place can produce different results.

[url="http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php"]http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php[/url]

[JBuer]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393901831' post='8792215']
See snippet of write up from a Mizuno site (link below). The statement is true regarding forged vs. cast clubs.....or forgings vs. castings in general....castings result in more variability...anyone out there ever upgrade to forged pistons for the Chevy big block rebuild?

China casts most of the irons on the market. Mizuno (last I checked) also outsources castings to China...but, the MP-series forgings are made in Japan. As far as I know most all "higher end" clubs are assembled in the USA, probably to remain a USA-based product offering.

Not RahRah'g Mizuno here, but forgings are always more stable than castings, simply because of minimal process variability. I don't think the G25's, or other cast clubs, should get a "black mark" for being castings whatsoever, but it wouldn't be crazy to see more variability with them, or any cast iron. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs intentionally "mis-cast" to create ridiculous...periodic shot distances, intended for those who are looking for that one "160 yard" 9 iron. Probably not, but it's pretty competitive out there!

[b] Why does Mizuno choose to forge its MP irons?[/b]

The forging process produces greater consistency and quality in the metal. Casting may be a more economical way to produce clubs - a cast head costs about half as much to produce as a forged head. But the downside of casting is that when the metal is poured into the mould, it always traps tiny bubbles inside the metal structure. We can go back to the freezer; no matter how carefully you pour the water, there are always bubbles in the ice. These bubbles make the face inconsistent; two shots from almost the same place can produce different results.

[url="http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php"]http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php[/url]
[/quote]

Not calling BS or anything but I find it a little ironic that you attempt to provide fact about a product and a possible marketing ploy by providing some marketing material from another OEM. I'm in sales and marketing so I found it kind of funny. Sorry seriously no disrespect.

[Donno]

[quote name='JBuer' timestamp='1393902789' post='8792355']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393901831' post='8792215']
See snippet of write up from a Mizuno site (link below). The statement is true regarding forged vs. cast clubs.....or forgings vs. castings in general....castings result in more variability...anyone out there ever upgrade to forged pistons for the Chevy big block rebuild?

China casts most of the irons on the market. Mizuno (last I checked) also outsources castings to China...but, the MP-series forgings are made in Japan. As far as I know most all "higher end" clubs are assembled in the USA, probably to remain a USA-based product offering.

Not RahRah'g Mizuno here, but forgings are always more stable than castings, simply because of minimal process variability. I don't think the G25's, or other cast clubs, should get a "black mark" for being castings whatsoever, but it wouldn't be crazy to see more variability with them, or any cast iron. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs intentionally "mis-cast" to create ridiculous...periodic shot distances, intended for those who are looking for that one "160 yard" 9 iron. Probably not, but it's pretty competitive out there!

[b] Why does Mizuno choose to forge its MP irons?[/b]

The forging process produces greater consistency and quality in the metal. Casting may be a more economical way to produce clubs - a cast head costs about half as much to produce as a forged head. But the downside of casting is that when the metal is poured into the mould, it always traps tiny bubbles inside the metal structure. We can go back to the freezer; no matter how carefully you pour the water, there are always bubbles in the ice. These bubbles make the face inconsistent; two shots from almost the same place can produce different results.

[url="http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php"]http://golf.mizunoeu...orgingahead.php[/url]
[/quote]

Not calling BS or anything but I find it a little ironic that you attempt to provide fact about a product and a possible marketing ploy by providing some marketing material from another OEM. I'm in sales and marketing so I found it kind of funny. Sorry seriously no disrespect.
[/quote]

Honestly, I was expecting a post just like yours, which is fine. You're a sales guy...persuade me that the data is incorrect.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393903333' post='8792423']
[quote name='JBuer' timestamp='1393902789' post='8792355']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393901831' post='8792215']
See snippet of write up from a Mizuno site (link below). The statement is true regarding forged vs. cast clubs.....or forgings vs. castings in general....castings result in more variability...anyone out there ever upgrade to forged pistons for the Chevy big block rebuild?

China casts most of the irons on the market. Mizuno (last I checked) also outsources castings to China...but, the MP-series forgings are made in Japan. As far as I know most all "higher end" clubs are assembled in the USA, probably to remain a USA-based product offering.

Not RahRah'g Mizuno here, but forgings are always more stable than castings, simply because of minimal process variability. I don't think the G25's, or other cast clubs, should get a "black mark" for being castings whatsoever, but it wouldn't be crazy to see more variability with them, or any cast iron. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs intentionally "mis-cast" to create ridiculous...periodic shot distances, intended for those who are looking for that one "160 yard" 9 iron. Probably not, but it's pretty competitive out there!

[b] Why does Mizuno choose to forge its MP irons?[/b]

The forging process produces greater consistency and quality in the metal. Casting may be a more economical way to produce clubs - a cast head costs about half as much to produce as a forged head. But the downside of casting is that when the metal is poured into the mould, it always traps tiny bubbles inside the metal structure. We can go back to the freezer; no matter how carefully you pour the water, there are always bubbles in the ice. These bubbles make the face inconsistent; two shots from almost the same place can produce different results.

[url="http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php"]http://golf.mizunoeu...orgingahead.php[/url]
[/quote]

Not calling BS or anything but I find it a little ironic that you attempt to provide fact about a product and a possible marketing ploy by providing some marketing material from another OEM. I'm in sales and marketing so I found it kind of funny. Sorry seriously no disrespect.
[/quote]

Honestly, I was expecting a post just like yours, which is fine. You're a sales guy...persuade me that the data is incorrect.
[/quote]

What data ?

All you gave was promotional material,,,,,,,,,,,,

Are you the same guy "changing the driver industry" by going back to steel shafts in the driver ?

If not, maybe you 2 should team up ???

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393813603' post='8783976']
[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.
[/quote]

Well, out of all my clubs I hit my G25 G & P the most consistently which made it very frustrating when the ball would sail +10,15, or even 20 yards too far. I don't have that issue with the AP2's.
[/quote]

Please don't be offended but you're a 15 handicap. You probably flush an iron 20% of the time (Yes, even your Gap and PW - OK, maybe 40% of the time with those).

Possibly the wind you thought was quartering against you was actually WITH you ? Possibly the wind kicked up when you hit and you didn't realize it ? Possibly you're not really sure WHEN you hit the SS ? Possibly your swing speed varies quite a bit without you even realizing it ?

20-25% farther with all conditions being equal (which they virtually never are) is a HUGE hot spot. Damn near impossible the club head is causing it.

Just one person's opinion.

[Tero Partanen]

Not going to comment on the hot spot, it was just an obs I made, and seems others did it too. I am 18 hdcp so I fully realize it might have been just me.

Anyhoo.. to the next topic(s).

Read from the other thread that players who made the transition from G15 to G25 don't feel any difference or see any perf increase with the new club. Are there people here, who actually do see and feel a difference in G25 (compared to G15, which I currently play).

Another question, I25 looks so good and I really like the smaller and more nimble clubheads. Would it be a horrible decision to get the I25s instead?

Tero

[duffer987]

Not remotely horrible
Go hit them both.
Go back 3 or 4 days later and hit them again extensively. Off grass if at all possible.
If not, ask if you can throw a 6I off both in your bag for a round and hit them both on the course.

If you can do that, one may jump out as a solid favorite. If so, purchase it. If not, the conventional wisdom would be go with the one that offers more 'help' on miss hits.

I'm sure after doing that you'll be happy with your decision either way

[Wooderson]

Anyone make the change from g15/20's to g25's and regret it due to the thinner sole? Thanks.

[Lexicographer]

[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1393959198' post='8796591']
Anyone make the change from g15/20's to g25's and regret it due to the thinner sole? Thanks.
[/quote]

Nope. Switched from G15 to G25 specifically for the thinner sole. Love the G15s still, but was never quite comfortable chipping with them. No such issues with the G25s.

[Veners]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393901831' post='8792215']
See snippet of write up from a Mizuno site (link below). The statement is true regarding forged vs. cast clubs.....or forgings vs. castings in general....castings result in more variability...anyone out there ever upgrade to forged pistons for the Chevy big block rebuild?

China casts most of the irons on the market. Mizuno (last I checked) also outsources castings to China...but, the MP-series forgings are made in Japan. As far as I know most all "higher end" clubs are assembled in the USA, probably to remain a USA-based product offering.

Not RahRah'g Mizuno here, but forgings are always more stable than castings, simply because of minimal process variability. I don't think the G25's, or other cast clubs, should get a "black mark" for being castings whatsoever, but it wouldn't be crazy to see more variability with them, or any cast iron. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if some OEMs intentionally "mis-cast" to create ridiculous...periodic shot distances, intended for those who are looking for that one "160 yard" 9 iron. Probably not, but it's pretty competitive out there!

[b] Why does Mizuno choose to forge its MP irons?[/b]

The forging process produces greater consistency and quality in the metal. Casting may be a more economical way to produce clubs - a cast head costs about half as much to produce as a forged head. But the downside of casting is that when the metal is poured into the mould, it always traps tiny bubbles inside the metal structure. We can go back to the freezer; no matter how carefully you pour the water, there are always bubbles in the ice. These bubbles make the face inconsistent; two shots from almost the same place can produce different results.

[url="http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php"]http://golf.mizunoeurope.com/forging/forgingahead.php[/url]
[/quote]

Certainly agree Mizuno make top quality clubs but I have never understood why so few pros play them? The vast majority of Ping pros play cast irons; S55 or i20s, so how do they cope with this apparent casting inconsistency issue, the top players are multi multi millionaires so wouldn't they just choose to use mizuno irons if they were far superior?

[duffer987]

^Indeed right. Because amazingly a pro has never hit this mythical 'hot spot' and had to worry about the effects, funny that eh?

[KjBowen]

Allow me to share my story on my G25 purchase...

I have 8 kids between me and my girl. ( we both have kids from previous marriage) my club HOing has always been about buying used To save money so I can get good clus at a discount. This has been the only way I could HO and still pay my bills.
I have never in my 15 years golfing had the funds to buy a brand new club off the rack and if I did.. The frugal person in me always said.. Get used irons and then you will have 100s for more golf gear. So even if I had the cash I always made it stretch.

Fast forward to this past few weeks. My game has struggled over the past 2 years due to just down right dumb HOing. I tried a few times to set my bag and not switch. I figured the only way was to get custom fit for all my clubs .

Started with my custom Scotty Cameron. Had Tom slighter do a masterpiece on it.
Next I had a driver and wood fitting and got custom woods with high end shafts.

I really wanted to spend the money on irons but I figured I would never as it is so expensive.

I demoed the G25 irons and I couldn't stop myself. Hands down the best set Of irons I ever hit. These are beyond easy and I can hit all the shots with them.

If these don't achieve the i5 status then I would be extremely shocked. I can honestly tell you I plan on playing these until I wear them out and as you know .. It's almost impossible to do with PING.. And when they wear out.. It will be the 18.00 retumble special from ping and they will be brand new again.

I truly think these are the clubs that will stop me from HOing irons!

Pure sweetness

[Veners]

Interesting review here comparing g25 to i20

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=x_h_k-qQ4fs

[Donno]

Ok, S55's are cast, or whatever Ping...do you think that maybe the castings are possibly hand-picked for the pros? Clubs are subjected to periodic Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) for which anomalies (voids) can be located in a casting. Could it be possible they hand-pick those with the most minimal voids, or voids where it doesn't matter? Plus, you see pro's hit long all the time...blame it on them or the club?...especially considering they can pinpoint +/- single digit yards...So why would they fly +15? They make LOTS of money from endorsements...guys continue to fall into the BS trap of believing what "[i]they play[/i]" is what "[i]you play[/i]". The OEMs are doing their job I guess, and whether or not Joe Schmo makes the cut, he picks up millions on endorsements...pretty good deal.

[Konkonash]

[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1393952194' post='8795553']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393813603' post='8783976']
[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.
[/quote]

Well, out of all my clubs I hit my G25 G & P the most consistently which made it very frustrating when the ball would sail +10,15, or even 20 yards too far. I don't have that issue with the AP2's.
[/quote]

Please don't be offended but you're a 15 handicap. You probably flush an iron 20% of the time (Yes, even your Gap and PW - OK, maybe 40% of the time with those).

Possibly the wind you thought was quartering against you was actually WITH you ? Possibly the wind kicked up when you hit and you didn't realize it ? Possibly you're not really sure WHEN you hit the SS ? Possibly your swing speed varies quite a bit without you even realizing it ?

20-25% farther with all conditions being equal (which they virtually never are) is a HUGE hot spot. Damn near impossible the club head is causing it.

Just one person's opinion.
[/quote]

Perhaps, however, this hasn't happened once with the AP2's and I do have and hit the AP2 gap wedge for 100 yd shots.

[Donno]

[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393987449' post='8800223']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1393952194' post='8795553']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393813603' post='8783976']
[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393737466' post='8775968']
After a year or so I decided to part ways with my G25's. Although I like the irons, I didn't like the offset, lack of feel, or the hot spots. As these were the first irons I've ever actually been fitted for (green dot), I just felt as though they were holding me back so to speak. I should have gotten X stiff shafts (94 6i SS) but just decided to start from scratch. I currently game 914 AP2's even though I'm a 15 cap, however, the feel of the forged clubs, reduced offset and consistent distances won out.
[/quote]

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.
[/quote]

Well, out of all my clubs I hit my G25 G & P the most consistently which made it very frustrating when the ball would sail +10,15, or even 20 yards too far. I don't have that issue with the AP2's.
[/quote]

Please don't be offended but you're a 15 handicap. You probably flush an iron 20% of the time (Yes, even your Gap and PW - OK, maybe 40% of the time with those).

Possibly the wind you thought was quartering against you was actually WITH you ? Possibly the wind kicked up when you hit and you didn't realize it ? Possibly you're not really sure WHEN you hit the SS ? Possibly your swing speed varies quite a bit without you even realizing it ?

20-25% farther with all conditions being equal (which they virtually never are) is a HUGE hot spot. Damn near impossible the club head is causing it.

Just one person's opinion.
[/quote]

Perhaps, however, this hasn't happened once with the AP2's and I do have and hit the AP2 gap wedge for 100 yd shots.
[/quote]

[size=4]Hasn't happen with [u]any [/u]forged MP Series, and especially ANY blades, plus, I demo'd a set of AP2's on grass until I had to clean each about 10 times....didn't happen either. Must add that the Ping Eye 2's NEVER sailed on me either...I think the Chinese castings have more variability because they don't want to scrap borderline questionable quality castings for cost reasons. No dig on Ping...it's about any manufacturer and the pressure to reduce scrap/cost. But in reality they know the demographic won't know the difference, and if someone [i]complains enough[/i], they'll replace the clubs.[/size]

[size=4]But all said, you'll never convince the true believers, or the disguised Ping Sales guys on this thread. However, when a 20+ Hcp'r hits one 20 yards longer than normal, he'll just chalk it up to "[i]hey, look how long I hit that iron[/i]!"....these Pings are UNREAL! And go on this and other threads recounting the shot over and over. [/size]

[Neurotica]

[quote name='Lexicographer' timestamp='1393959425' post='8796633']
[quote name='Wooderson' timestamp='1393959198' post='8796591']
Anyone make the change from g15/20's to g25's and regret it due to the thinner sole? Thanks.
[/quote]

Nope. Switched from G15 to G25 specifically for the thinner sole. Love the G15s still, but was never quite comfortable chipping with them. No such issues with the G25s.
[/quote]

My exact feedback and experience as well.

[URStillAway]

Please don't feed the troll.

[Veners]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393985601' post='8799891']
Ok, S55's are cast, or whatever Ping...do you think that maybe the castings are possibly hand-picked for the pros? Clubs are subjected to periodic Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) for which anomalies (voids) can be located in a casting. Could it be possible they hand-pick those with the most minimal voids, or voids where it doesn't matter? Plus, you see pro's hit long all the time...blame it on them or the club?...especially considering they can pinpoint +/- single digit yards...So why would they fly +15? They make LOTS of money from endorsements...guys continue to fall into the BS trap of believing what "[i]they play[/i]" is what "[i]you play[/i]". The OEMs are doing their job I guess, and whether or not Joe Schmo makes the cut, he picks up millions on endorsements...pretty good deal.
[/quote]

Possibly but I guess none of us actually know 100% ? All I can do is look at the facts and it's interesting that so many non Ping staffers choose Ping clubs over mizuno, surely they would be concerned with this issue, if it was a true concern even wondering if Ping would give the same due care and attention during this casting process / selection for them as they do for the staffers, they would then surely eliminate that doubt / not take the risk by selecting Mizuno irons? It would make sense based upon this that all non staffers would automatically choose mizuno irons?

Do Mizuno not pay there staffers anything for endorsing their equipment? I would expect that if cast clubs really caused pros to hit accidental long shots we would see all the ping staffers using the anser irons.

[gopherguts]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393990978' post='8800619']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393987449' post='8800223']
[quote name='gopherguts' timestamp='1393952194' post='8795553']
[quote name='Konkonash' timestamp='1393813603' post='8783976']
[quote name='SHORTBUTSTR8' timestamp='1393797200' post='8780598']
[quote name='Tero Partanen' timestamp='1393745353' post='8776316']

I am confused. I thought Ping corrected the hot spot effect that was present on G15, already to the G20 line? I seem to remember getting a demo 7 iron G20 and comparing that to my G15. I was able to actually see in practise that G15 length had variance, depending on if the hit was on the "hot spot" or not, whereas the G20 gave the same length over and over again.

[size=5][b]Has the hot spot problem resurfaced with G25??[/b][/size]

Tero
[/quote]

[size=6][b]Funny that you guys blame the clubs when you actually hit the sweetspot.[/b][/size]
[/quote]

Well, out of all my clubs I hit my G25 G & P the most consistently which made it very frustrating when the ball would sail +10,15, or even 20 yards too far. I don't have that issue with the AP2's.
[/quote]

Please don't be offended but you're a 15 handicap. You probably flush an iron 20% of the time (Yes, even your Gap and PW - OK, maybe 40% of the time with those).

Possibly the wind you thought was quartering against you was actually WITH you ? Possibly the wind kicked up when you hit and you didn't realize it ? Possibly you're not really sure WHEN you hit the SS ? Possibly your swing speed varies quite a bit without you even realizing it ?

20-25% farther with all conditions being equal (which they virtually never are) is a HUGE hot spot. Damn near impossible the club head is causing it.

Just one person's opinion.
[/quote]

Perhaps, however, this hasn't happened once with the AP2's and I do have and hit the AP2 gap wedge for 100 yd shots.
[/quote]

Hasn't happen with [u]any [/u]forged MP Series, and especially ANY blades, plus, I demo'd a set of AP2's on grass until I had to clean each about 10 times....didn't happen either. Must add that the Ping Eye 2's NEVER sailed on me either...I think the Chinese castings have more variability because they don't want to scrap borderline questionable quality castings for cost reasons. No dig on Ping...it's about any manufacturer and the pressure to reduce scrap/cost. But in reality they know the demographic won't know the difference, and if someone [i]complains enough[/i], they'll replace the clubs.

But all said, you'll never convince the true believers, or the disguised Ping Sales guys on this thread. However, when a 20+ Hcp'r hits one 20 yards longer than normal, he'll just chalk it up to "[i]hey, look how long I hit that iron[/i]!"....these Pings are UNREAL! And go on this and other threads recounting the shot over and over.
[/quote]

So now you know what's NEVER happened with ANY Mizuno club EVER ?

Most likely when that 20+ handicapper hits it +20 it's probably because he's so used to MIS-hitting his 9 iron "only" 120 that becomes his EXPECTED yardage.

When he FINALLY catches 1 flush and it goes 140 he says "hot spot".

[gopherguts]

[quote name='WCGC72BE9' timestamp='1393996876' post='8801173']
Please don't feed the troll.
[/quote]

Sorry

[Bumbershoot]

The Ping hotspot issue is a canard. I used to randomly hit Eye2s crazy distances until I replaced the JZ shafts with DGX100s. Never happened again with those irons, nor with my i3s, i15s or s57s. Not once. It's the shaft...

[Donno]

[quote name='Veners' timestamp='1394006575' post='8801553']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393985601' post='8799891']
Ok, S55's are cast, or whatever Ping...do you think that maybe the castings are possibly hand-picked for the pros? Clubs are subjected to periodic Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) for which anomalies (voids) can be located in a casting. Could it be possible they hand-pick those with the most minimal voids, or voids where it doesn't matter? Plus, you see pro's hit long all the time...blame it on them or the club?...especially considering they can pinpoint +/- single digit yards...So why would they fly +15? They make LOTS of money from endorsements...guys continue to fall into the BS trap of believing what "[i]they play[/i]" is what "[i]you play[/i]". The OEMs are doing their job I guess, and whether or not Joe Schmo makes the cut, he picks up millions on endorsements...pretty good deal.
[/quote]

Possibly but I guess none of us actually know 100% ? All I can do is look at the facts and it's interesting that so many non Ping staffers choose Ping clubs over mizuno, surely they would be concerned with this issue, if it was a true concern even wondering if Ping would give the same due care and attention during this casting process / selection for them as they do for the staffers, they would then surely eliminate that doubt / not take the risk by selecting Mizuno irons? It would make sense based upon this that all non staffers would automatically choose mizuno irons?

Do Mizuno not pay there staffers anything for endorsing their equipment? I would expect that if cast clubs really caused pros to hit accidental long shots we would see all the ping staffers using the anser irons.
[/quote]

Look, I'm not out to battle Ping v Mizuno. I can argue no company makes forgings like Mizuno these days. And aside from Ping and Mizuno, don't forget Titleist AP series...see them all over the tour. But I could argue that Ping, because their club lines are mainly castings, which cost 1/2 of forgings to make, but the retail cost is 80%-100% of forged club sets, so they have extra profit to invest in endorsements. If ANY of us were on some tour, playing, say Wilson's for $100,000 per year endorsement, and Ping, wanting to expand their presence, offers an additional $500,000 per year to play their clubs, wouldn't most of us take the money? Thus, the resulting "impression" is Pings are "all over" the tour when in fact Ping simply buys-off more players. Not just Ping, could be anyone. Pretty sure Cally and TM pay a boatload or endorsement $$. It's a VERY competitive market and I don't blame them in the least, but "what the pro's play" doesn't hold much water for me because of the money factor.

[JBuer]

[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1394066164' post='8806987']
[quote name='Veners' timestamp='1394006575' post='8801553']
[quote name='Donno' timestamp='1393985601' post='8799891']
Ok, S55's are cast, or whatever Ping...do you think that maybe the castings are possibly hand-picked for the pros? Clubs are subjected to periodic Non-Destructive Testing (NDT) for which anomalies (voids) can be located in a casting. Could it be possible they hand-pick those with the most minimal voids, or voids where it doesn't matter? Plus, you see pro's hit long all the time...blame it on them or the club?...especially considering they can pinpoint +/- single digit yards...So why would they fly +15? They make LOTS of money from endorsements...guys continue to fall into the BS trap of believing what "[i]they play[/i]" is what "[i]you play[/i]". The OEMs are doing their job I guess, and whether or not Joe Schmo makes the cut, he picks up millions on endorsements...pretty good deal.
[/quote]

Possibly but I guess none of us actually know 100% ? All I can do is look at the facts and it's interesting that so many non Ping staffers choose Ping clubs over mizuno, surely they would be concerned with this issue, if it was a true concern even wondering if Ping would give the same due care and attention during this casting process / selection for them as they do for the staffers, they would then surely eliminate that doubt / not take the risk by selecting Mizuno irons? It would make sense based upon this that all non staffers would automatically choose mizuno irons?

Do Mizuno not pay there staffers anything for endorsing their equipment? I would expect that if cast clubs really caused pros to hit accidental long shots we would see all the ping staffers using the anser irons.
[/quote]

Look, I'm not out to battle Ping v Mizuno. I can argue no company makes forgings like Mizuno these days. And aside from Ping and Mizuno, don't forget Titleist AP series...see them all over the tour. But I could argue that Ping, because their club lines are mainly castings, which cost 1/2 of forgings to make, but the retail cost is 80%-100% of forged club sets, so they have extra profit to invest in endorsements. If ANY of us were on some tour, playing, say Wilson's for $100,000 per year endorsement, and Ping, wanting to expand their presence, offers an additional $500,000 per year to play their clubs, wouldn't most of us take the money? Thus, the resulting "impression" is Pings are "all over" the tour when in fact Ping simply buys-off more players. Not just Ping, could be anyone. Pretty sure Cally and TM pay a boatload or endorsement $$. It's a VERY competitive market and I don't blame them in the least, but "what the pro's play" doesn't hold much water for me because of the money factor.
[/quote]

You're right but those pros are still winning and contending at the top level. If they can play cast clubs with supposed "hot spots" then those "hot spots" shouldn't interfere with us small mortals playing.

[Sawgrass]

The value of keeping your tour card, and the value of coming in first rather than second place for example, makes me overwhelmingly skeptical that pros would play a lesser club due to endorsement money.

[Donno]

Much of the success at the [i]pro level [/i]is based on short game prowess....even pro's miss greens....and contrary to belief....they miss greens far more often than shown on TV. Their [i]savior [/i]is their short game. Don't espouse that Ping or any other iron maker somehow has the "magic" club that [u][i]allows [/i][/u]Pro's to better compete...because that would discount SO much of what they've accomplished. Pro's can win [i]one week[/i], and [i]completely [/i]miss the cut the next...nothing to do with whatever irons they're playing because there's far too many independent variables.

Many of posters on this forum give too much credit to "irons", like there's no short game, driving game as well as, mental toughness, coaching, physical training, etc. But I think most can agree that [i]new-found [/i]money from endorsements is a BIG carrot. Who wouldn't take an extra million to play some new line of clubs if their "tour income" was ranging from $100-300k/year? I'm sure I would find a way to work with OEMs to select club heads and shafts support a larger income. Plus, they know the endorsement money dries up if they start to suck, so it's likely a tough call to change clubs.

I'm pretty sure the guys, who have had some success, going on 30 years old, with families, have wives that pressuring them to "[i]take the endorsement money[/i]". Nothing wrong with that...they're making a living like everyone else.