A Set For All Seasons

[oldschoolrocker]

Smitty it worked so well for me that my oldest son ditched his plays to purchase the new Tittlest driver and went with a 983 head instead. Have found another 975d locally that I hope to pick up cheap on a couple of days.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1375393249' post='7586162']
OldSchool - l like the 975d idea. I have one in the inventory. It does have graphite shaft. I'm going to visit with my local golf club mechanic and see what he suggests about getting a metal driver shaft.
[/quote]

The problem, for me at least, is that wood shafts now commonly available tend now to be limited to TT Dynamic Gold.

Once I realised how much better I get on with the lighter shafts in my Apex irons than I do with the usual classic DG, I was looking for something equivalent in lightweight steel for my woods. Eventually, I lucked into a bunch of metal woods being sold off cheap that had all been reshafted with what was probably spare inventory TT Lite shafts. I bought the woods at a few quid each, pulled the shafts and put together a more or less matching set of 975D, 975F 15* and a 19* 980F. The lighter weight steel shafts, once cut to traditional lengths of 43" driver and 1" shorter for each successive fw, needed a bit of lead tape on the heads - but I couldn't be happier with how they now play. Shorter, or "classic" length woods rock from the point of view of putting a solid strike on the ball. If you prefer the heavier weight of DG, then you might not need to add any headweight at all.

The only caveat, from the point of view of someone doing this for themselves, is that bore-through heads like the Titleist can be a bit trickier to pull the original shaft from. But if you're having someone else (especially an experienced and well equipped repair guy) do the work, that hardly figures.

[oldschoolrocker]

BS,
I too purchased a set of four woods, laminated, in bad condition, except for the shafts, which are TT Lite, with the purpose being to replace the graphite in the 975d. Took it to the local club repair guy and he spent half an hour trying to get the head off and couldn't do it, so instead of cooking the head and/or ruining the shaft he called me and I am left with a slightly toasted 975d head. Still plays great.
Soon as I get the okay to drive I am heading over to pick up that 975d I found in 9.5 * and will put it on the TT Lite shaft and see how it works.
The one on the graphite is 10.5 but my other modern drivers are 9*.

[birly-shirly]

I've actually had to pull 2 shafts out of what I now refer to as my "custom gun-blued" 975D. Neither shaft is getting recycled...

Scorched paint doesn't look nearly as bad as it sounds - although I accept it's not what I'd have expected back from a professional job. Function remains intact though!

[Froth]

That's why I "Cork" Mine. Plus laziness and shaft flex preservation.

[birly-shirly]

What's that then Froth? A normal shaft insertion depth and a cork or something glued in from the sole side to fill the remainder of the hosel?

[oldschoolrocker]

Just woke, taking the dog put for her morning business, yes the head does look a bit gun metal ish. I couldn't put my finger on what it reminded me of, but that's it.

[Froth]

I cut the shaft off, and drill it out VERY CAREFULLY to 1.5" depth. Leaving the bottom half of the old shaft in the head, prep hosel and shaft as normal, this retains shaft flex instead of increasing it. BOOM.

[oldschoolrocker]

Froth,
You play a game of which I am unaccustomed. What's the view like out there?
Gotta love that 975d. Of course the engine turning that transmission of yours has a bit more horsepower than mine.

[Froth]

The view was better with my 975J, it was usually in the fairway, but about 30yds shorter and that was with a 48" shaft.

Hitting Driver, Wedge, Driver, Wedge, Driver, OH SWEET 9iron.. All day is kind of boring sometimes

[oldschoolrocker]

Yes,
I seem to be able to find a few d heads now and then locally, but not the j.

[Kirasdad]

I am at my sister in laws house in PA, which has wifi.

So...news from the front, I.e. melding tournament golf with my "TWEENER" set for all seasons. The results are decidedly mixed.
I played two tournaments in two successive weekends, one in Calif. and one in Illinois at the course where I grew up. The nostalgia there was running as thick as maple syrup out of a refrigerator, especially with the clubs I was using. My TWEENER set consisted of a 460cc 10.5 degree driver, a Toski persimmon 3wood circa 1986, a Taylor Made Raylor 5 wood from the early nineties my mixed bag of late 50's early 60's Hogan Precision/Slazenger Power Thrusts, let's call them " Thrustcisions", and my Macgregor SW and Ironmaster putter.
The first event (that I commented on earlier in this discussion) was a Ryder Cup type format match between two rival clubs here in in the Pasadena area, mine and a our (not so) bitter opponents 3 or 4 miles down the road. The stakes, not unlike the big boy actual Ryder Cup, is a lovely trophy and tremendous bragging rights for a year. Two days, match play all the way. In this event my setup was not a factor, for in match play, whether it be singles, or best ball, one really bad miss means loss of hole, and the double bogey is no big deal, unless perhaps it's the deciding hole, but overall I'd say my vintage gear was a non factor.

The second tournament, on the other hand, was a different story. Again two days, again best ball, but this event involved stroke play, in that whatever was the lowest score between my partner and I was entered in the box for a particular hole and our total score for 36 holes was our score for the event. In our case 72, 74 for 146 total. In both tournaments I felt, swing wise, they were about the same, but I feel that in the stroke play event my vintage clubs hurt me, especially on the par threes, and long par fours, where I have my 3 iron in my hand trying to fly it over a yawning bunker, and everyone else has some sort of hybrid. It's not even a contest. I have to make a perfect swing, and they just have to hit it solid, and even my best move at 57 years young produces a low bullet that either doesn't clear the bunker (has the distance, but not the height) or it actually hits the green but rolls over. The par fives also produce a slight advantage for the guy with the Rocketballz 3 wood. I hit my persimmon 3 wood, which is one of my favorite clubs, pretty good most of the time, and straight, but the Rocketballz guy blows it thirty yards past me. He's got a flip sand wedge in. I have a full PW. Now some people might prefer a full swing to a par 5, but my sand wedge from 40,50, 60 yards is one of my best shots. So for me, it takes away a real scoring option. On the driving range I was hitting balls with a guy who was an obvious good player great swing, the score sheet had him as a 4 index. He was 61 years young and he showed me his Rocketballz 3 wood and told me that the ball just jumps off the face and he hits it almost as far as his driver.now it's one thing if a flat bellied div. I college kid ( like the one we played with on Sat. Who hit it 320 off the tee when he wanted to) blows it 70 yards past me, but when a guy older than me and the guy I'm really competing with, hits his 3 wood, 20 yards past my persimmon...It's a knotty problem. I'm an old schooler, but unlike Scooter there are times when I want to shoot the lowest score I can, and for that, especially at my age, technology not only helps, it keeps me competitive.

So...back to my original post. I'm think now that my TWEENER idea may not hold water. Maybe I'm back to two sets, one for fun and the such enjoyment of playing the game as I originally stated, which is realistically most of my rounnds and one with all the gizmos for when I need to compete.

At least that's what I'm thinking now.

(Sigh) Give me a week or two and maybe I'll think of a way to beat them with the old stuff yet.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Sorry to hear your tweener set isn't cutting it Kirasdad.

Possibly the challenge is being caused by switching between sets - we know the lie angles, setup, etc change between different vintages of clubs, and this is adding to the challenge for you.

Me, I finally got out for a round with the bag in my signature, and I think I'm pretty much there with a "Set for all seasons". Although the modern driver (7 year old head with a $10 Graphtech shaft modern?) kills the whole vintage vibe, my teebox anxiety is gone. First set with the modern driver/everything else vintage was 1 off my course best, and was two lipped putts from being my course best (+2 for 9).

Main improvement was off the teebox, and a building comfort with the Apex IIs. Maybe game the tweener set exclusively for a while? Also, maybe some matched irons might help a bit in the consistency department? Just some thoughts, and I can say, although I hit my persimmon a bit shorter than my old MacGregor MT 3W (10-20 yards), there's little chance I'd go back to metal FWs. Just can't control them like the persimmon.

[Kirasdad]

Sigh) Give me a week or two and maybe I'll think of a way to beat them with the old stuff yet.
[/quote

And I have been thinking, along these same lines Scooter. These are obvious(except, apparently to me) good ideas. It's one thing to play vintage, and quite another to play whatever is in the barrel at Goodwill. My irons are four different Hogan models: Precisions, Slazenger Power Thrusts, IPT, and IPT III's. They range from mid 50's vintage to 1964. God knows what the lofts and lies are...and I wonder why I don't hit them consistently. I mean that's just stupid. To put them in play in competition is almost like playing left handed or something. My persimmon woods, on the other hand, are a matched set of driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, and I strike them very well for the most part. Hmm...well, duh? I just have to go out and buy an iron SET of something, put them in play more often than not and try it again. Half the guys on this forum play Wilson's so I'll take that as an endorsement and I'll pick up a set of tour blades on the bay for 75 bucks, get the lies adjusted and the lofts checked, and give them a go.

So to quote Henry V:

"Once more into the breach, my friends, once more!"

[Ironmaster Oddities]

[quote name='Kirasdad' timestamp='1376022943' post='7638010']
Sigh) Give me a week or two and maybe I'll think of a way to beat them with the old stuff yet.
[/quote

And I have been thinking, along these same lines Scooter. These are obvious(except, apparently to me) good ideas. It's one thing to play vintage, and quite another to play whatever is in the barrel at Goodwill. My irons are four different Hogan models: Precisions, Slazenger Power Thrusts, IPT, and IPT III's. They range from mid 50's vintage to 1964. God knows what the lofts and lies are...and I wonder why I don't hit them consistently. I mean that's just stupid. To put them in play in competition is almost like playing left handed or something. My persimmon woods, on the other hand, are a matched set of driver, 3 wood, 5 wood, and I strike them very well for the most part. Hmm...well, duh? I just have to go out and buy an iron SET of something, put them in play more often than not and try it again. Half the guys on this forum play Wilson's so I'll take that as an endorsement and I'll pick up a set of tour blades on the bay for 75 bucks, get the lies adjusted and the lofts checked, and give them a go.




So to quote Henry V:

"Once more into the breach, my friends, once more!"
[/quote]

Kirasdad,
PM me.
Uncle Bob

[Froth]

I am so happy I put my old wedges back in the bag!!!! Had two sand saves today, One was thanks to the J.P. custom grind SW the other the T.K. 60! LW - Finished em out with a 60's Era Putter too! What a great game that the tools haven't needed to change much in this long. If you're bagging a Modern Driver you can have at least 11 Vintage clubs in your bag and shoot the same scores you'd shoot with 2013 gear all the way through. I'd shoot worse, I know it for a fact.

It is critical to make sure your specs are spot on though. I have been checking my 17's every year, I may need to move it to every 6months with the amount I am playing recently. On my last check my 6i and 7i were only separated by ONE degree!! They usually do not require adjustment and if they do, it's usually only 1-2 clubs. This year was the first year I adjust more than two, I adjusted Lie on my 4i and 3i and lofts on my 6i and 7i.

Edit: I hit a MONEY 6iron on the first hole today. New shafts, New grips - OLD heads - Match made in heaven.

[ScooterMcTavish]

Yes, Uncle Bob will hook you up.

Although I am still in the honeymoon phase with the Apex IIs, they do have a higher CG than my FG-17s. However, I do prefer their lighter weight.

Sill undecided which set will stay in the bag long-term, though a little less ball height is cheap vs. shoulder pain.

If you like a heavier club, the FG-17s are solid. Mind you, I do have a fascination with Maxfli Australian Blades.

[NRJyzr]

Lighter weights is one thing I don't like about Hogans. I like my irons heavy. You'd laugh at all the lead tape on my Golden Rams, or the TG-898s I finished reshafting yesterday.

(grammar edit)

[birly-shirly]

If that's the only thing about Hogan irons you're not so keen on, maybe worth looking for a set of Apex Pro shafted irons. Not so common as Apex or Legend shafted clubs, but certainly heavier. You might not want to get into re-shafting Hogans, with their pinned hosels.

[NRJyzr]

The pins are another reason I haven't gone that route.

When I made my first blade choice, back on New Year's Eve day in 2000, I looked at all sorts of blades. Apex II and Golden Rams were the last two, but the Hogans had Apex 3 shafts, and I knew that wasn't enough. I wasn't doing any clubwork at the time, so changing them would be a pricier proposition for what was to be an experiment, at the time.

So now I'm a Ram ho. LOL

[profsmitty]

One of the great things about playing with classic clubs, even in our "set for all seasons" bag is that whatever we lose in score (which I am still convinced is minimal over time) is made up for in the joy of playing something that it timeless and beautiful.

Patience though is out friend, here. It takes a while to rethink decades of programing. We need to rethink how we approach the course, where to aim, what constitutes an acceptable risk, etc. Classic clubs are going to require a classic strategy.

I am also convinced we need to move up at least one tee. These back tee locations are designed to maximize the only advantage that an elephantine driver and garden hosed shaft have - length off the tee. If you move up a tee or so, your stiffer/heavier driver lands about where theirs does distance-wise. Now you are hitting an approach shot from where they are hitting theirs. It's at this point that I think the advantages appear. You are probably more accurate with the driver and long irons than they are. Mid and short irons are about equal. At that point, it comes down to what it always does - short game.

[NRJyzr]

[quote name='profsmitty' timestamp='1376055432' post='7639474']
One of the great things about playing with classic clubs, even in our "set for all seasons" bag is that whatever we lose in score (which I am still convinced is minimal over time)[/quote]

When I switched to blades as a 20 hdcp, I spent that season dropping to a 13.

When I played persimmons full time in the summer of 2008, I dropped from an 11 to an 8.

The only thing I really lose playing persimmons is the ability to go for some par 5s in two, because of the swingspeed reduction in swinging a shorter club.

There have been a few occasions of late where I've seriously thought about completely dumping metal woods and going all Ti, all the time. I can't quite bring myself to do it, possibly because I'm still sufficiently infatuated with the long ball, and I'm an unrepentant club ho. Can't stop messing around with the clubs, even metal woods.

I would say to Scooter, don't give up on the persimmon driver. You might need to stage to it progressively, because it's such a departure from the gigantor modern driver clubheads, but if you use one with a shaft that fits your swing reasonably well, you won't be losing out much at all.

YMMV of course.

[ScooterMcTavish]

^^^ LOL, I use YMMV as my regular disclaimer as well.

It's funny though how a bad experience with the persimmons on the course absolutely shattered my confidence in the small clubheads. It's almost like a smell or a song from your youth triggers a horribly intense unpleasant feeling based on a bad experience. My bad persimmon drives did exactly this, and brought me back to the teebox horrors of driving in my youth.

Not to say I've given up completely, but after purchasing a mini-club hoard, I am thinking there might be some old Titleist small-headed metal clones in there I might enjoy hitting. Plus there's a wide variety of wooden clubs in there, and I also have a Ping Eye 2 laminate driver in the mail. So I haven't given up completely yet, but am still at peace with myself if I do still end up needing to play the modern driver.

Though in the world of unintended consequences, I'm playing a R flexed Cobra 9* right now, and am absolutely murdering it. Unfortunately, I'm murdering it straight as an arrow, which is causing me problems due to always playing a fade. But I was so off at league this week that my driver cost me at least 3 strokes (one water hazard, my head was up before I even hit the ball, one low burner, and one straight, hammered 230 yard carry OB). Beer will sometimes do that to you, as will skipping lunch and feeling lightheaded. Worse round than the week before, though the way I was playing, Wednesday's round was an anomaly.

If I was playing persimmon, I would have actually whiffed two of the drives. For some reason, my tempo just ran away from me, never to be seen again. And this was all through the bag.

But, had an excellent time visiting with friends and my playing partner, and considered how being out golfing was better than any of the other alternatives.

[NRJyzr]

The first time I switched to persimmons, I found I had to work with them on the range first. Several sessions, not just one pre-round warmup. I wound up ramping down my swing with the woods, even using something with an über-soft-for-my-swing shaft, to make sure I kept it that way.

After a while, I dug out the more fitting sticks and was able to go at it a bit more.

[Froth]

I share your liking of heavier clubs NRJ, At least for Irons - My original True-Temper Dynamics I pulled from the 17's were every bit of 150g per shaft and I loved it. Switching to a 117g shaft took getting used to, but now with a 126g shaft in there and an extra inch in length over my old Dynamics I'm feeling 'The weight' again and very happy with how they feel in the swing. I tend to lose where the club is in my back swing on an iron shot if the club is too light and I also like to let the momentum of the club "pull" my arms to the top as I feel I can load better using some of the club resistance against me.

[birly-shirly]

[quote name='ScooterMcTavish' timestamp='1376063159' post='7640530']
[...] I am thinking there might be some old Titleist small-headed metal clones in there I might enjoy hitting. Plus there's a wide variety of wooden clubs in there, and I also have a Ping Eye 2 laminate driver in the mail.
[/quote]

Good luck if the Titleists you find are the PT Midsize model. Give or take the Starship, I think that's the last metal woods Titleist made prior to the 975s. I landed a 10.5 driver in absolutely mint condition and I don't have the words to describe how badly I wanted to hit it well, or how badly I hit it. Still looked lovely, but I hated it, the sound it made, the feel and the ballflight and ended up pulling the shaft to put in another head. Maybe you'll have better luck, but I don't ever remember Titleist being lauded for their drivers prior to the 975 generation.

Ping laminates? Different story. I've got blondie zings - which probably aren't much different functionally from what you've got coming. Nice clubs.

[Froth]

Was the Titleist 970 fairway Before or after the PT Fairway metals? I'm thinking before but I'm not 100% on that.

[birly-shirly]

After, but the pt fws were reissued on the back of tiger's trusty 3 wood - which in turn was a mid-90s tour mod for Greg Norman i believe.

[oldschoolrocker]

Best drivers I have ever had in this order

1. 975d
2. Ping Zing laminate

Toss up between both model fairway woods for me as well, but actually think I would give the nod to the Pings.

Had a couple of the Titleist persimmons as well back in the early '90s and didn't care for them, but could have been the loft/shaft combo I was using at the time.

[ScooterMcTavish]

I've also got a lot of clubs that can be disassembled as well, so I can mix and match between vintage steelies and graphites if so desired.

There's also a couple of larger headed drivers in there - a Jazz and a Cadie Gear. Both look pretty hellacious. But both might also be fun with a steel driver shaft in it, maybe painted metallic bright green. Hmmmm. I'm turning into the budget Robopti.