Ask and you shall receive-The no turn cast drill

[dmb316]

Just wanted to add my two cents to this, as I'm a big advocate of Monte, his vids and of course his advice. Can't wait to get out to see him.

But this drill.. at least the first portion of it.. doesn't work for me. I know that I can have too long of a backswing, most notably getting my hands too deep and flat and behind my body. So i've been actively trying to shorten my backswing and his Golf Swing Takeaway vid has been fantastic for me. he gets target side arm (left for righties) parallel to ground and it almost automatically opens your shoulders to where they need to be, as long as you are getting back correctly. see the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-s99Jlq0Mc

Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg

But after that digression, when i do the 'no turn hinge only backswing in this drill, all i get is the first part of his shoulder isolation drill or the first part of his perfect backswing vid... a straight hinge up. So if you're struggling with the first piece of this no turn drill, check out the vids above. I am def eager to try the downswing throw the lag drill. i like to stay passive with my arms, but they can get too passive and can get disconnected. If the throwing the lag doesn't work for you, i know that 'speeding up the right arm' has also been a great feel for me and may just work for you to get your arms better in sync to your turn.

[vaterman]

[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383114253' post='8077371']
If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.
[/quote]
Would you mind clarify for me what you mean by "get in Sadlowskis top of swing"?
Not English speaking and would like to understand your point.

[Russtopher]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']
Just wanted to add my two cents to this, as I'm a big advocate of Monte, his vids and of course his advice. Can't wait to get out to see him.

But this drill.. at least the first portion of it.. doesn't work for me. I know that I can have too long of a backswing, most notably getting my hands too deep and flat and behind my body. So i've been actively trying to shorten my backswing and his Golf Swing Takeaway vid has been fantastic for me. he gets target side arm (left for righties) parallel to ground and it almost automatically opens your shoulders to where they need to be, as long as you are getting back correctly. see the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-s99Jlq0Mc

Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg

But after that digression, when i do the 'no turn hinge only backswing in this drill, all i get is the first part of his shoulder isolation drill or the first part of his perfect backswing vid... a straight hinge up. So if you're struggling with the first piece of this no turn drill, check out the vids above. I am def eager to try the downswing throw the lag drill. i like to stay passive with my arms, but they can get too passive and can get disconnected. If the throwing the lag doesn't work for you, i know that 'speeding up the right arm' has also been a great feel for me and may just work for you to get your arms better in sync to your turn.
[/quote]

It was the opposite for me - the first part of the vid got me in a really nice backswing position. I've been accused far too many times of looking like I want to kill the ball, so that part of the drill got me in a nice position. The firing the right hand though didn't work out so well. I tried to feel it a few different ways, but none of them clicked for me. And that's OK - either this didn't work *for me* or I perhaps did something (or felt something) differently than what Monte intended. I had straight irons, but distance was short. Longer irons and hybrids faded.

Some drills/thoughts work well for some, and some work well for others. For me, it was the recent square to square thread that really got me excited (still am after another range session with it), but it's a huge credit to the guys like Monte who take the time to post the vids/threads and help answer followup questions.

[jazerac]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']
Just wanted to add my two cents to this, as I'm a big advocate of Monte, his vids and of course his advice. Can't wait to get out to see him.

But this drill.. at least the first portion of it.. doesn't work for me. I know that I can have too long of a backswing, most notably getting my hands too deep and flat and behind my body. So i've been actively trying to shorten my backswing and his Golf Swing Takeaway vid has been fantastic for me. he gets target side arm (left for righties) parallel to ground and it almost automatically opens your shoulders to where they need to be, as long as you are getting back correctly. see the vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-s99Jlq0Mc

Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg

But after that digression, when i do the 'no turn hinge only backswing in this drill, all i get is the first part of his shoulder isolation drill or the first part of his perfect backswing vid... a straight hinge up. So if you're struggling with the first piece of this no turn drill, check out the vids above. I am def eager to try the downswing throw the lag drill. i like to stay passive with my arms, but they can get too passive and can get disconnected. If the throwing the lag doesn't work for you, i know that 'speeding up the right arm' has also been a great feel for me and may just work for you to get your arms better in sync to your turn.
[/quote]

Same for me, the higing of the wrists does not turn my hips at all on the back swing. But the cast from the top has really helped with my ball striking.

[loadnhips]

At first it will work, because you're used to turning your shoulders, so it will still turn even if you just think c0ck/hinge the wrists. But eventually the shoulders won't turn enough. And so the c0ck/hinge wrists only won't work eventually. As I've implied previously, this will only work if you bend your L side laterally (your perspective, not the ball/target).

Monte has talked about this before.

[sheldonjhacker]

Monte's video was VERY helpful to me over the last few range sessions. Reminded me of a drill which helped me go from a 14 index to an 11 index this summer….the goal from my teacher was to 1) make sure I was getting my right side through the shot and 2) make sure I was extending my right arm through the ball at impact. Prior to this, I was all arm-swing…and my right arm (and left arm) were both too bent at impact.

Try this…put a ball on the ground in the normal ball position. Get in your normal set up…place a ball in your right hand and go to the top of your backswing. Stop there, hold that position. Now from there just throw the ball in your right hand at the ball on the ground…as hard as you can. Notice how NATURALLY your lower body reacts to this throwing motion…right shoulder, right elbow, right hip all moving through the throwing of the ball and your body posts up on your left leg NATURALLY…and your body moves into a natural balanced finish position. You can do this in a mirror without a ball and you'll notice that your body is NATURALLY moving in the correct sequence. After doing this drill a few times, hit some balls with a 7-iron. Immediately I noticed better contact (sweetspot hit more often)…and a lot more distance.


http://www.golfchannel.com/media/the-golf-fix-increase-distance-with-swing-fix-102813/?cid=facebook_fix_V_INCREASEDISTANCEHALLOWEEN


Hope this helps.

[dmb316]

[quote name='loadnhips' timestamp='1383139188' post='8077920']
At first it will work, because you're used to turning your shoulders, so it will still turn even if you just think c0ck/hinge the wrists. But eventually the shoulders won't turn enough. And so the c0ck/hinge wrists only won't work eventually. As I've implied previously, this will only work if you bend your L side laterally (your perspective, not the ball/target).

Monte has talked about this before.
[/quote]

What are you talking about bending your left side laterally? And who are you addressing this to?

[bph7]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383142852' post='8078220']
[quote name='loadnhips' timestamp='1383139188' post='8077920']
At first it will work, because you're used to turning your shoulders, so it will still turn even if you just think c0ck/hinge the wrists. But eventually the shoulders won't turn enough. And so the c0ck/hinge wrists only won't work eventually. As I've implied previously, this will only work if you bend your L side laterally (your perspective, not the ball/target).

Monte has talked about this before.
[/quote]

What are you talking about bending your left side laterally? And who are you addressing this to?
[/quote]

If you just stand straight up but face a golf ball like you are going to hit it, you can bend your torso to the left or right (this would be your torso moving either towards or away the target) OR straight down (like you would bend addressing the ball). However, if you turn your shoulders 90 degrees CW (for a righty backswing),, then, all of a sudden, if you "bend left" (From YOUR perspective), you are now bending TO THE BALL. So the lateral left side bend has "replaced" the forward bend to keep you in posture after your shoulders are turned.

[dmb316]

[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1383144341' post='8078338']
[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383142852' post='8078220']
[quote name='loadnhips' timestamp='1383139188' post='8077920']
At first it will work, because you're used to turning your shoulders, so it will still turn even if you just think c0ck/hinge the wrists. But eventually the shoulders won't turn enough. And so the c0ck/hinge wrists only won't work eventually. As I've implied previously, this will only work if you bend your L side laterally (your perspective, not the ball/target).

Monte has talked about this before.
[/quote]

What are you talking about bending your left side laterally? And who are you addressing this to?
[/quote]

If you just stand straight up but face a golf ball like you are going to hit it, you can bend your torso to the left or right (this would be your torso moving either towards or away the target) OR straight down (like you would bend addressing the ball). However, if you turn your shoulders 90 degrees CW (for a righty backswing),, then, all of a sudden, if you "bend left" (From YOUR perspective), you are now bending TO THE BALL. So the lateral left side bend has "replaced" the forward bend to keep you in posture after your shoulders are turned.
[/quote]

Understood. But didn't know who he/she was referencing his first post to. I guess it was for someone else that wasn't staying posture.

[bph7]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383145303' post='8078452']
[quote name='bph7' timestamp='1383144341' post='8078338']
[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383142852' post='8078220']
[quote name='loadnhips' timestamp='1383139188' post='8077920']
At first it will work, because you're used to turning your shoulders, so it will still turn even if you just think c0ck/hinge the wrists. But eventually the shoulders won't turn enough. And so the c0ck/hinge wrists only won't work eventually. As I've implied previously, this will only work if you bend your L side laterally (your perspective, not the ball/target).

Monte has talked about this before.
[/quote]

What are you talking about bending your left side laterally? And who are you addressing this to?
[/quote]

If you just stand straight up but face a golf ball like you are going to hit it, you can bend your torso to the left or right (this would be your torso moving either towards or away the target) OR straight down (like you would bend addressing the ball). However, if you turn your shoulders 90 degrees CW (for a righty backswing),, then, all of a sudden, if you "bend left" (From YOUR perspective), you are now bending TO THE BALL. So the lateral left side bend has "replaced" the forward bend to keep you in posture after your shoulders are turned.
[/quote]

Understood. But didn't know who he/she was referencing his first post to. I guess it was for someone else that wasn't staying posture.
[/quote]

Yeh, I think it was general advice that left lateral bend would help ensure that the shoulders are turning enough, that posture is stayed in, and that the shoulders aren't turning too "horizontal".

[jlo]

Mixed reviews for me but mostly good.

I never pull the ball but I did a few times yesterday.

I hit some solid shots and getting the wrist hinged sooner seemed to give me a sense of more control.

Distance was not longer but I think if I work with this feel and find a happy medium where I pivot and throw the hands to blend them together I think it will help my inside shallow path.

Sometimes it takes a totally different feel to make a change.

It has to feel like you are doing something the complete opposite way and so drastically to get any improvement.

If you are too much inside and you work hard on taking it way way outside to try to change it many times you are only taking it outside an inch but it feels like a mile.

Sometimes taking dynamite to the brain can reap success.

[capboomer]

Interesting vid. Interesting responses.

I haven't tried this drill yet, but for someone who struggles with early ext. and flipping, this SEEMS counter-intuitive. However, I've been around long enough to know that golf is a push-pull....do something that appears to be "wrong" in order to get it "right."

[martynbirch]

played today and hit some of the best shots ever, 5 pars and an eagle no less, but one horrendous blow up hole of double figures (2 OB and several compounding the error shots). My main swing thought was immediate wrist set as per the video, I have had good results at the range with this, it shortens my back swing and encourages a good turn.

I think it can be hard to set early as you end up thinking too much about which wrist does what etc. What helped me is using the idea from Joe Dante's magic moves where you press down with your right palm where it covers the thumb bone to initiate the set.

[Jobu]

[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']


Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg


[/quote]

sorry but the perfect backswing is not on plane, activates the wrong muscles, slows you down, and leverages the shaft way too early. The position at the top is correct, but how he's getting you there isn't. The hands should never stop.

[Krt22]

Ive been trying this in my swing net at home with good results, I tend to get less steep and less over the top. Some how dispersion (using impact tape) has gotten better as well. Need to head to the range today to see hot its effecting ball flight and distance. I already had a pretty short backswing (due to flexibility issues), so this just helps me get to the same position more repeatably.

[dudewheresmypar]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1383156443' post='8079344']
[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']
Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg


[/quote]

sorry but the perfect backswing is not on plane, activates the wrong muscles, slows you down, and leverages the shaft way too early. The position at the top is correct, but how he's getting you there isn't. The hands should never stop.
[/quote]

I'm not sure you got the point of that video.

[Jobu]

[quote name='r4vgolf' timestamp='1383157166' post='8079406']
[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1383156443' post='8079344']
[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']
Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg


[/quote]

sorry but the perfect backswing is not on plane, activates the wrong muscles, slows you down, and leverages the shaft way too early. The position at the top is correct, but how he's getting you there isn't. The hands should never stop.
[/quote]

I'm not sure you got the point of that video.
[/quote]

yes I do. The backswing needs 1 more thing that he doesn't describe and that is a loop. If the hands change directions the club overrides the swing.

[mws92]

So I combined this with Monte's suggestion of letting the left arm roll slightly up the chest to start the backswing. I have a problem keeping the club too hooded with my hands inside on the backswing which causes me to lift the club and be across the line at the top. Then I drop it inside and get stuck.

This was the result of starting the backswing with the hands setting and letting the left arm run up the chest. I know there are some other issues but this is a huge improvement and allowed me to dump on the way down and neutralized my attack angle and shallowed me out a bit.

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvC4s8Nk1D0"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvC4s8Nk1D0[/url]

[avrag]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1383126326' post='8077504']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383114253' post='8077371']
If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.
[/quote]
Would you mind clarify for me what you mean by "get in Sadlowskis top of swing"?
Not English speaking and would like to understand your point.
[/quote]

"Sadlowski's top of swing position"means that the head of your driver touches your left thigh. Good luck with that.
As to the Monte's OP and video: It works. I have also always wondered, why I hit the ball so much better with the "Faldo drill" with pre-set wrists. It seems that for some people, their brain is simply wired that way.

[Paul E]

[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1383126326' post='8077504']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383114253' post='8077371']
If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.
[/quote]
Would you mind clarify for me what you mean by "get in Sadlowskis top of swing"?
Not English speaking and would like to understand your point.
[/quote]

It was a free-thought. I guess where I was going with it was if you work hard on getting the arms unstuck and after awhile you add speed to your swing b/c of it, the idea was to push some boundaries, work a bit at the extremes and see how much you might get away with by taking a more Sadlowski backswing with the driver. This of course goes against everything Monte teaches but I've found I can hit it farther with this intent. That said, it's not consistent and would in the long run lead to all the bad things we're trying to get rid of as well as cause injury. It was irresponsible of me to say it, so apologies and don't do it.

[MonteScheinblum]

[quote name='Jobu' timestamp='1383156443' post='8079344']
[quote name='dmb316' timestamp='1383116139' post='8077401']


Piggybacking on that, his Making a Perfect Backswing vid has also been gold for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5o4A0IrGqg


[/quote]

sorry but the perfect backswing is not on plane, activates the wrong muscles, slows you down, and leverages the shaft way too early. The position at the top is correct, but how he's getting you there isn't. The hands should never stop.
[/quote]

You wanna have a long drive contest to prove your point?

If the movements are coordinated properly, your point fails.

The point is people are missing one or more of them and when the feel of adding one or more of them is thrown in, you get the proper net result.

Stop thinking in a vacuum and maybe you will make a coherent point sometime.

[chrispkreme]

As a person who has always had a problem with arms/hands being stuck behind, I can say confidently that this drill definitely works.

Even with an aching back lastnight I was able to pull this off fairly simply with nice easy swings.

[vaterman]

[quote name='avrag' timestamp='1383159379' post='8079556']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1383126326' post='8077504']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383114253' post='8077371']
If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.
[/quote]
Would you mind clarify for me what you mean by "get in Sadlowskis top of swing"?
Not English speaking and would like to understand your point.
[/quote]

"Sadlowski's top of swing position"means that the head of your driver touches your left thigh. Good luck with that.
As to the Monte's OP and video: It works. I have also always wondered, why I hit the ball so much better with the "Faldo drill" with pre-set wrists. It seems that for some people, their brain is simply wired that way.
[/quote]
Thank you for the explanation. I am not going to try it. Just did not understand what it meant.

[vaterman]

[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383160176' post='8079612']
[quote name='vaterman' timestamp='1383126326' post='8077504']
[quote name='Paul E' timestamp='1383114253' post='8077371']
If I recall correctly from the video, there was a moment where Monte shows a flip at impact. That's what you want to do. Flip it as hard as you can. From the top, think about nothing but flipping the head through the shot as fast as you can. Get that left wrist to cup at impact hard. As someone else said, this is a feel vid, might work for you, might not. If it doesn't work for you it might be b/c you're hidebound due to traditional golf instruction. We all are. Just let it go. After nine holes you'll find your lower body leading correctly and your torso following adding power.

Here's another counter-intuitive drill. With a driver, try and get in Sadlowski's top of swing position and flip the clubhead as fast and hard as you can through impact. Report back.
[/quote]
Would you mind clarify for me what you mean by "get in Sadlowskis top of swing"?
Not English speaking and would like to understand your point.
[/quote]

It was a free-thought. I guess where I was going with it was if you work hard on getting the arms unstuck and after awhile you add speed to your swing b/c of it, the idea was to push some boundaries, work a bit at the extremes and see how much you might get away with by taking a more Sadlowski backswing with the driver. This of course goes against everything Monte teaches but I've found I can hit it farther with this intent. That said, it's not consistent and would in the long run lead to all the bad things we're trying to get rid of as well as cause injury. It was irresponsible of me to say it, so apologies and don't do it.
[/quote]
No worries. I already have a Sadlowsky like backswing. Almost have the head of my wedge irons touching my left thigh. Are getting online instruction with Monte where we are trying to correct flaws that lead to an almost impressively long, too narrow and inside backswing at the top. It is improving but very slowly.

[finalist]

Seems very easy to hit straight pulls with this drill, but I still really like how it calms my too-fast-too-long backswing that is ingrained in me. It has definitely shortened my swing with ease much like hitting knock downs would, but the flight is almost identical to a full swing except a hair lower and about 10% shorter at most.

[ALIF]

Where did Jobu go? Is he researching his reply with google? Lol.
Great video Monte. When you first told me this on the range 5 months ago I didn't get it. That thread about casting a few weeks ago turned my little light on and since then my arms and body have been linked up. Thanks for all your knowledge and kindness with sharing it.

[wmblake2000]

[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1383193415' post='8082046']
When you first told me this on the range 5 months ago I didn't get it. That thread about casting a few weeks ago turned my little light on and since then my arms and body have been linked up. Thanks for all your knowledge and kindness with sharing it.
[/quote]

I am in the same boat you describe in your process. I sort of get this, but am still trying to sort it out in my mind.

Monte is the 3rd pro to suggest the release it from the top to me. When I do this, there is a great sense of freedom and speed through the ball. But in spite of this, I reverted back before to holding the lag, pulling the handle. Too many books and articles over the years with pics of some guy who had actually cast the club. I didn't want to be that guy. I was afraid of this approach. It just violated some Big Idea.

Here's what I get now. If the path is too steep you have to cast the club or it'll be fat, thin or left. But here's what I don't get yet. I think of all those pics where the hands/arms are returned to the inside and the clubhead hasn't passed them yet. The opposite of flipping. How does this happen with this throwing from the top action? I think I've got the shaft/head moving like I've thrown it ahead of me. That feels like a flipping action.

I think what's missing in my sense of this is I know my body tends to stall, probably to keep the ball from going left. That stall plus this releasing lag probably is flipping (and so was the previous action). I am committed to this new notion, but it really does overturn a long-standing and basic idea.

[Grapehunter]

[quote name='wmblake2000' timestamp='1383199265' post='8082240']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1383193415' post='8082046']
When you first told me this on the range 5 months ago I didn't get it. That thread about casting a few weeks ago turned my little light on and since then my arms and body have been linked up. Thanks for all your knowledge and kindness with sharing it.
[/quote]

I am in the same boat you describe in your process. I sort of get this, but am still trying to sort it out in my mind.

Monte is the 3rd pro to suggest the release it from the top to me. When I do this, there is a great sense of freedom and speed through the ball. But in spite of this, I reverted back before to holding the lag, pulling the handle. Too many books and articles over the years with pics of some guy who had actually cast the club. I didn't want to be that guy. I was afraid of this approach. It just violated some Big Idea.

Here's what I get now. If the path is too steep you have to cast the club or it'll be fat, thin or left. But here's what I don't get yet. I think of all those pics where the hands/arms are returned to the inside and the clubhead hasn't passed them yet. The opposite of flipping. How does this happen with this throwing from the top action? I think I've got the shaft/head moving like I've thrown it ahead of me. That feels like a flipping action.

I think what's missing in my sense of this is I know my body tends to stall, probably to keep the ball from going left. That stall plus this releasing lag probably is flipping (and so was the previous action). I am committed to this new notion, but it really does overturn a long-standing and basic idea.
[/quote]

I think what you are doing is taking the action used to describe the drill literally when all you need to do is realize the words are used to describe a feel and not what would actually happen while using that feel.

[wmblake2000]

[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1383199752' post='8082254']
[quote name='wmblake2000' timestamp='1383199265' post='8082240']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1383193415' post='8082046']
When you first told me this on the range 5 months ago I didn't get it. That thread about casting a few weeks ago turned my little light on and since then my arms and body have been linked up. Thanks for all your knowledge and kindness with sharing it.
[/quote]

I am in the same boat you describe in your process. I sort of get this, but am still trying to sort it out in my mind.

Monte is the 3rd pro to suggest the release it from the top to me. When I do this, there is a great sense of freedom and speed through the ball. But in spite of this, I reverted back before to holding the lag, pulling the handle. Too many books and articles over the years with pics of some guy who had actually cast the club. I didn't want to be that guy. I was afraid of this approach. It just violated some Big Idea.

Here's what I get now. If the path is too steep you have to cast the club or it'll be fat, thin or left. But here's what I don't get yet. I think of all those pics where the hands/arms are returned to the inside and the clubhead hasn't passed them yet. The opposite of flipping. How does this happen with this throwing from the top action? I think I've got the shaft/head moving like I've thrown it ahead of me. That feels like a flipping action.

I think what's missing in my sense of this is I know my body tends to stall, probably to keep the ball from going left. That stall plus this releasing lag probably is flipping (and so was the previous action). I am committed to this new notion, but it really does overturn a long-standing and basic idea.
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I think what you are doing is taking the action used to describe the drill literally when all you need to do is realize the words are used to describe a feel and not what would actually happen while using that feel.
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No, I understand that. At least I think I do. It may be that what I feel through impact is not what is happening. But what I am trying to do is reconnect different dots. I actually think I answered my own question as I wrote that post...maybe.

Edit... the thing that kinda mystifies my is there is more speed through impact this way. The head absolutely feels like it is thrown through impact faster. How does that speed sync with the body? I know that may sound stupid, but that's the question I am asking myself.

[Club junkie]

[quote name='Grapehunter' timestamp='1383199752' post='8082254']
[quote name='wmblake2000' timestamp='1383199265' post='8082240']
[quote name='chiva' timestamp='1383193415' post='8082046']
When you first told me this on the range 5 months ago I didn't get it. That thread about casting a few weeks ago turned my little light on and since then my arms and body have been linked up. Thanks for all your knowledge and kindness with sharing it.
[/quote]

I am in the same boat you describe in your process. I sort of get this, but am still trying to sort it out in my mind.

Monte is the 3rd pro to suggest the release it from the top to me. When I do this, there is a great sense of freedom and speed through the ball. But in spite of this, I reverted back before to holding the lag, pulling the handle. Too many books and articles over the years with pics of some guy who had actually cast the club. I didn't want to be that guy. I was afraid of this approach. It just violated some Big Idea.

Here's what I get now. If the path is too steep you have to cast the club or it'll be fat, thin or left. But here's what I don't get yet. I think of all those pics where the hands/arms are returned to the inside and the clubhead hasn't passed them yet. The opposite of flipping. How does this happen with this throwing from the top action? I think I've got the shaft/head moving like I've thrown it ahead of me. That feels like a flipping action.

I think what's missing in my sense of this is I know my body tends to stall, probably to keep the ball from going left. That stall plus this releasing lag probably is flipping (and so was the previous action). I am committed to this new notion, but it really does overturn a long-standing and basic idea.
[/quote]

I think what you are doing is taking the action used to describe the drill literally when all you need to do is realize the words are used to describe a feel and not what would actually happen while using that feel.
[/quote]


I agree with Grape. I don't think you want to perfect this drill, rather get feeling of swinging the club right. This drills could work for some and may not for others. It's probable works best if someone like Monte is watching so he determine if the desired swing is happening.